Please welcme to the family - Homegrown 4Banger
Picked this up over the weekend. Swapped it for a cracked GT DHi frame, blown rear shock, Hadley/Mavic 721 rear wheel in need of a respoke, and a set of used truvativ holzfeller cranks.
The guy even threw in an original Mavic UST 24 spoke rear wheel!
And yes... he did know all of the flaws... I'm a very honest seller.
I have a pretty high-end build planned for this. So will update as I go along over the next month or 2.
I'm planning to build it up for social XC riding, and endurance racing.
Crazy about Homegrowns
That's awesome! Looks like it's in nice shape. Is that the 17" frame size you needed?
Yep, the guy said it was a 19" to start with but I measured when I got home. Its 18.5" to the top of the seat tube, but 17" to the centre of the top tube.
I've ordered some 09 SID Duel Air World Cups for it, and Rockshox Monarch 4.2 (1.5" Stroke) to try with the new shock mount linkage I've discussed in my other thread.
More pics as the build progresses. I've already dissassembled the frame and am in the process of replacing all the bearings and pollishing everything.
That makes it a 19 frame. To confirm, measure the head tube, not including the headset of course. If it's over 4", it's a 19. 17" frames have a 90mm head tube; 19's have a 110mm. My eye tells me that is the same frame I have.
Originally Posted by Bellsy
Looks in great shape! If it's a 19, you can make the size work if you're near my size. I'm 5'6" and have managed to make mine work for me with just a couple tweaks.
Last edited by CTB; 11-16-2009 at 01:31 PM.
Ah cool. Yep I measured a 110mm head tube, so your right. 19".
I'm 5'10" (177cm) so I'm generally in between med/large sizes anyways for XC but I always go with a medium just for the extra chuckability.
However, with the Sids on it, they wont be up for too much aggressive riding so a large should do me fine. Just as long as its not a 21" lol!
P.S. Picking up a 6month old Hope Pro2/Stans ZTR335 wheelset for it tomorrow for less than half the RRP price!
I love bargain hunting! ;-)
The Eye hasn't failed me yet. Sorry it wasn't what you wanted, though. I bought mine thinking it was a 17" (remote purchase via a friend) and never thought to have my friend measure it up before getting it. At 5'10", you'll be fine. For mine, I got rid of the setback seat post (actually just scooted the seat forward on the same post) and had a shorter stem for a bit, but the short stem messed up the handling. I'm now riding with a 110mm stem, so I've essentially pulled myself forward on the bike a bit. So far it works, but I'm getting the next 17" I find for a decent price.
Dang, dude, I need to shop with you for these bargains! Hope Pro2 and ZTR355 is one of the combos I was thinking of building up!
Yeah I was looking at building that exact set new, so was stoked to find some for about half the RRP, and even more stoked when i managed to talk them down another $100.
Picking them up for $350AUD (320ishUSD) tomorrow morning.
Weight is about 1520g I think! Will run some Maxxis UST's with them to shave some weight. Hoping to get it down under 25pnds.
Got an awesome deal on Sids/Monarch from CRC. 09 Sids WC's were 48%off and the 09 Monarch 4.2 was 38%off.
Am looking for a good deal on a 2nd hand high end groupset at the moment. And will get bars/stem/headset etc from Aspire Velotech in the next month or so.
Should be finished by christmas if all goes to plan!
You'll won't really save weight with true UST tires. You'll save more weight by converting non-UST's to tubeless with something like Stan's. You'll already have the rims, so I'd recommend going that route. For comparison, my Race King rear tire is 469g, but the UST version is nearly 700g. I was running 269g Slime tubes, so the UST would have still been a weight save, but the non-UST is even more. Even after adding the Stan's sealant, I'm still way lighter. But, of course, the sidewalls aren't reinforced like a UST is, and the shake-n-bake and random deflation while in your garage are sometimes annoying.
Under 25 lb? I honestly don't think that's possible with this frame. If I add a 1550g wheelset and an 800g crankset, replacing my current parts, I'm still at 28lb, 2 oz. That's with an XTR rear D, XT front D, etc. There's definitely room on my bike, but I think only mid-high 26's could be possible if you spared no weight-saving expense. (I'm hoping you prove me wrong and do a 25er.)
Yeah I'll be running Thomson stem and post, Easton CNT Monkeylight SL's and a full X-0 or XTR groupset.
I like what your thinking re: UST's. Will look into it.
The forks and rear shock weigh less than 1700g combined!
Ok, well I have a bit of an update...
I have had the frame apart for the last week. The drive side crank arm was so tight on the bottom bracket that I pulled the threads out of the crank arm trying to remove it with a propper crank arm extractor. I had to take the frame to work and figure out a way to get it in the hydraulic press without damaging the paint. Harder than you may think.
After half an hour of trying different things I finally got it sorted, and started pumping.
The press went to 20tonnes pressure before the arm finally came free of the BB with almighty crack!! No wonder I couldnt get it with the ectractor!
I pressed out all of the bearings too and picked up some new ones yesterday. The old ones were rubish. Only had about 50mm of smooth movement and the rest was quite tight.
I re-assembled the frame this morning with ner bearings and a bunch of new stainless steel bolts and set the correct clearances for all the bushes so there's no sideways movement in them. Its all lovely and smooth now.
I've reinstalled the original coil shock for the moment, but I have a 63mm stroke Rockshox Monarch 4.3 Air shock and I'm designing a new upper shock mount that will hold the shock body secure (so it doesnt try to flip/flop on rebound) and so that the BB heigh can be infinately adjustable (between a certain range) so will update on that as I make some more progress.
And these are the new 2009 Sid World Cups I'm running on it. 1450g of pure sex!
Seriously, how have I missed all this great stuff?!? Keep your eye out for the black, magnesium rear dropouts. They're lighter and use a standard disc mount instead of the 22mm Hayes mount.
Turn your back for one messily second (ok, week) and things just explode! Bellsy, I love you new bike and your approach to this. Personally, I love Schwinns and especially Homegrowns. I'm looking for a 19" HG 4B frame which I can swap front triangles with my S6 with.
I'm very much looking forward to what you figure out with the rear shock. The Fox I have is decent, but I wouldn't mind upgrading to something newer and lighter.
Will you be servicing your own fork?
Ok, time for another update as I've had a bunch more parts come in.
I had alot of trouble pressing out the old FSA Pig DH headset as I later found out it had been glue in with sillicon sealant! Apart from that it all went together well.
I'm running Sid World Cups on the front, with a King headset, Thomson stem and Easton Monkeylite SL bars. Wheelset is Stanz ZTR355 rims laced to Hope Pro 2's and American Classic skewers. For the moment I'm running wirebead Maxxis Crossmarks (cause I got them for $10 each) and they'll remain my weekend warrior tires, but I'll get some MaxxLite 355's which will save me alot of weight.Thomson Elite post and eBay Schwinn saddle finish it off for the moment.
As it sits, the bike weighs 9.27kg (20.lbs). The groupset & brakes that I'm looking at are 2.7kg (6lbs) but I'll save 2lbs from tires, and a bit more again when I swap to the air shock. So I still think I'll get close to my 25lbs target.
There's more photo's of it here http://www.flickr.com/photos/2134917...77951976/show/
Last edited by Bellsy; 12-10-2009 at 09:25 PM.
I'm of the opinion that MaxxLits tires doesn't have much place on the mountain bike. They're simply don't have enough tread or volume. I'd very strongly suggest looking instead at either the Continental Race King Supersonic 2.2 or the Continental Mountain King Supersonic 2.2. They're both excellent super light tires with terrific grip.
Originally Posted by Bellsy
Is your SID set at 80mm or 100mm?
I get Maxxis tires direct from the distrubutor for cheaps... And the Maxxlites will be for racing only with the Crossmarks for my weekend warrior tires.
Sids are set at 80mm atm. I thought about changing them, but then figures it might screw with the geo slightly singe these frames came with 63mm travel forks to begin with. I'll leave them at 80 for a while, and at the first service I might switch them to 100 and see how it feels.
I'm a light guy (120lbs), but I'm a downhiller by nature, so I think I'll run em at 80mm just for the extra stiffness.
My Conti RK SS 2.2's weigh 465g. My Mountain King 2.4 SS weighs 590g. I recommend both, though the MK can sometimes do weird things. Both are a B*ITCH to convert to tubeless. I'd recommend the 2.4 MK, as they aren't all that big in spite of the number on the side.
PS: I'll comment more later when I have time, but looking good!
The Homegrown hardtails up through 1998 and the Homegrown Factory hardtails in 1999 came with 63mm forks. The 4 Bangers always rocked 100mm forks. Going with 80mm will steepen your head angle up to 72 degrees, and 63mm will push it close to 73 degrees, and is going to make your 4B very twitchy. I strongly recommend setting your fork to 100mm especially if you, like me, come from a DH background. It's also a good excuse to service your fork and check your oil levels, since RS is known to ship forks with low oil. Also, at 120 pounds, you're not really going to feel much difference regards to stiffness in a 32mm SID set between 80 or 100mm.
Originally Posted by Bellsy
Straight from the Schwinn catalog; note the forks listed:
I still don't like the MaxxLite. [/SIZE]
Last edited by bad mechanic; 12-11-2009 at 10:36 PM.
Would you elaborate please?
Originally Posted by CTB
Well almost. Still the Rockshox Monarch rear shock to go on, and some lighter tires. The shock mount is finished, just needs fitting.
Anyways here she is. Its been chistened "The Sausage" (Banger is an Aussie word for sausage, plus it sounds funny when I say I'm taking the sausage for a ride!)
Rest of the pics and the build process here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/2134917...7622977951976/
Spec list is:
Frame:1999 Schwinn Homegrown 4-banger 100mm Travel frame
Shock:Rockshox Super Delux rear shock (soon to be swapped out for a 2009 Rockshox Monarch 4.2 Air Shock
Fork:2009 Rockshox Sid World Cup Duel Air forks. Currently set at 80mm.
Brakes: 2009 Avid Elixr CR Carbon brakeset, 165mm rotors F&R
Wheelset: Stans ZTR 355 laced to Hope Pro 2 w/ DT spokes
Tires: Maxxis Crossmark Wire bead (soon to be Maxxis Racelite 295's as race tires)
Groupset: 2009 SRAM X0
Crankset: Truvativ Stylo
Stem & Post: Thompson
Bars: Eason MonkeyLite SL Carbon low Rise
Grips: ODI Ruffians
Saddle: Ebay Schwinn Saddle
Pedals: Crank brothers Smarty's
Should get it down to 25lbs (maybe sub25) with the new tires and airshock and still a reasonable safe build so I'm pretty happy.
Took it for a short ride through the park yesterday and I had severe pedal bob, but I've raised the BB height and added more spring preload and it seems to have fixed it.
Last edited by Bellsy; 01-25-2010 at 07:48 PM.
thats an awesome, awesome bike! i love vintage schwinns, have an s-20 sweet spot and a moab 2.
what size frame?
Originally Posted by HamfisT
Thanks! Frame is a 19"
I could do with a 17" I think, but its not too bad. I tend to ride bikes half a size too small, and this is probably half a size too big. Shorter stem helps heaps though and makes the steering a little more sensitive First real test will be on the weekend!
Looks great, Bellsy! I'm surprised it weighs 27 lb. I'm revising my Banger heavily (including a smaller frame) but still only expect to be just below 28 (27.7) when I'm done. Even factoring in the "easy" changes I could make to lose weight, it still wouldn't be 27, and that's with very light rims, light tubeless conversion tires, high-end crank, air shock, etc. I'm using the lighter mag dropouts and non-pinch bolt swingarm as well. Anyway, definitely looking forward to hearing your ride reports!
EDIT: After thinking about the changes I could make to the bike, I think I could get it down to 27 lb by sacrificing some of the functional stuff I like or just spending more money. But I'd never be able to get it down to 25. The frame alone (with Fox shock) is 7 pounds, compared to something like a Trek Fuel 9.8 which is 5.
Bellsy, you chose the same brakes I'd like to get, but after weighing my old Hayes, the weight save wasn't worth the $350 to me since my Hayes still work well. But down the road I do hope to upgrade to the CR's, as they offer adjustments that I think would make life better with my bike.
Wow, I totally missed this one. I and my friends have found the MK 2.4 SS to occasionally wash out on dry trails unexpectedly at times. We suspect the very tall side knobs are folding under when the trail isn't soft enough to dig in.
Originally Posted by bad mechanic
Last edited by CTB; 01-27-2010 at 03:48 AM.
Well, I finally got out on the trails last weekend.
Suffering an epic hangover from the night before's fixed gear 'alleycat' race and post race celebrations, I took it out to my local XC course with another mate.
I only completed 1 lap as it had been pouring with rain and was just about to start again, and the course isnt that much fun in the wet. (VERY good course in the dry though)
Initial impressions... Pretty good!
I hadnt ridden any other Lawwill XC bikes before, so the only comparisons I had were my last 2 Specialized Epic's.
I have to admit, its nowhere near as fast or as nimble as the Epic's were. They climb better than 90% of the hardtails out there, and also descend very well, with a very light and agile feel. Whilst I was happy riding the Epic on full day social endurance rides, I feel the Banger is much more suited to the social endurance/all mountain rider.
The banger is a bit heavier, and felt a little more cumbersome overall, and the slight pedal bob while climbing didn't help things either.
Once you get it up to speed and use a bit of momentum on the course (hard to do in the wet) it was fantastic. The Lawwill rear end worked extremely well over the bumps and undulations, and the bike corners well.
I found the rear shock doesnt control rebound very well. You set it up for small bumps, and it bucks on the bigger ones lifting the rear wheel off the ground which is a pain for climbing. so I stiffened up the rebound, and then it jacked down under the smaller bumps as the rebound couldnt keep up.
It did absorb the bumps nicely though. I'm hoping the RockShox Monarch I have for it will cure the rebound control issue, allow for better tuning, a lock out, and reduced weight.
The mount is completed, I just have to pick it up from my brothers machining shop and install it. It was CNC made, so I could probably have some more made up if theres interest in them.
The forks... Oh the forks! The Duel Air Sid World Cups are without a doubt THE best fork I've ever ridden. I ran them with a stock out of the box tune, on the 80mm setting and only used 60mm of that on my lap, but they felt much better than any of the 100mm and 200mm forks I've ridden. I just didnt notice what they were doing because they did it so well. They felt much more compliant than my Fox100's over the bumps, yet ramped up appropriatly so as not to bottom out, and they are extremely stiff! (I found the Fox forks to flex quite alot.
The Elixr CR's were everything you'd expect from Avid too. Amazing brake. I did have to file a bit off the mount though to get it to clear the swingarm.
I did have some shifting problems, but that would be because of the mud, and poor tuning on my part.
I do feel as though I could do with a 17" front triangle. My riding style, although smooth, is usually pretty aggressive, and a smaller frame usually suits me. I just find the 19" (even with a slightly shorter 90mm stem) is a little too long in the cockpit.
Anyways, I'll post another update in the coming weeks once I've sorted out the shifting issue, added the new rear shock, and probably some lighter tires.
Untill then, ride on!
Bellsy, interesting comments, and I thought about them while looking at the pictures of your bike.
You have the OEM Rock Shox rear shock on there. Measure the eye-to-eye (eye-to-trunnion in the case of the Banger). At 140mm, the bike (to me) felt twitchy and very quick to respond. This is the fixed dimension of the 2000 SID-equipped Bangers. At 135-137, where I like to run mine, it feels about right. At 127mm, which was the most I could get out of the OEM coil setup (and does not match what even Schwinn claims the dimension should be), the bike felt like a truck. I found myself really working to make it turn, and then once it did, it would fall into turns. Those dimensions don't sound like much change, but they range from about 70.5 head angle at 140mm to 68.4 head angle at 127. If your eye-to-trunnion isn't as long as possible, I recommend adjusting it to the max.
The rest all makes sense. They're heavy bikes by today's standards, and especially against something like a Spec Epic. Specialized specializes (hee hee) in making FS bikes that act like hardtails, so no surprise that the very plush and, if you are an out-of-the-saddle pedaller, bobby Banger would feel like it does in comparison.
I'm not a Rock Shox fan in general, and I've found the damping on both ends of my Banger to be much more agreeable with my Fox components. Of course, I'm comparing a 2008 Fox to a 1999 SID, so that's not totally fair. In the case of the rear, my 2004 Fox Float RL does a much better job at controlling the travel of the bike than the old Super Deluxe did. It'll be interesting to see how you like the bike with your new Monarch.