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  1. #1
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! Mongoose Blackcomb WHAT UP?

    SO i have this Mongoose Blackcomb and everyone hates on it... its not a Specialized or Chumba Racing i get it but WTF? Lets break it down... People say it has horrible components...i get that Walmart bike cant expect much.. now we're down to the frame whats wrong with the frame... its heavy ok... well jus an opinion and ive never actually raced but the fastest distance between 2 points is the straightest route right? so if the bike is heavier it will stay on the ground more correct? so no HUGE air which creates and arc and eliminates the straightest point.... and when it come to whoopd de doos it wont catch a whole lotta air so again straightest point and less likly hood for loss of control... any Blackcomb owners wanna put in their 4 cents or a dollar to this subject...

    My Blackcomb:
    Diamondback BMX Bigfoot Pedals(way comfortable)
    Avid BB7 Rear Brake set up
    Soon to be Fox Vanilla or Rock Shox Bar Rear Shock...

  2. #2
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    You just made my head hurt

  3. #3
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    If you enjoy riding your Mongoose, then ride it with a smile on your face, and don't worry about the haters.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  4. #4
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    lol i agree jus needed to rant lol also any peeps in around Temecula let me know need a riding buddy for Vale lake and Rainbow Canyon and Medow View

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkj__ View Post
    If you enjoy riding your Mongoose, then ride it with a smile on your face, and don't worry about the haters.
    I totally agree with this. But the reasoning behind why a heavy bike is good is comical.

  6. #6
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    lol rants arnt always right jus lookin for input if im wrong jus explain so i can learn a thing or two...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by posey24 View Post
    lol rants arnt always right jus lookin for input if im wrong jus explain so i can learn a thing or two...
    There is nothing wrong with riding your blackcomb. I wouldnt put any money into it though. Most people that have expensive bikes got hooked by riding lower end bikes. The problems you will end up finding is that the weight of the bike, along with the geometry will eventually limit the riding you will be doing, and also limit the skills you will be able to develop. The other thing to consider is that your bike came with a sticker on it that says "not intended for off road use". When riding on fairly tame trails, it wont be a big deal. But as skills progress and the terrain you ride one becomes harder on your bike, frame failure can become an issue. This happened on one of my first bikes many years ago and lucky for me, it didnt cause a wreck.

    I would ride it the way it is and have fun on it. Save the money that you plan on upgrading and put it towards a different bike when your blackcomb breaks or your skills outgrow what the bike can handle.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    But the reasoning behind why a heavy bike is good is comical.
    Indeed.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  9. #9
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    well i needd a new rear brakes and jenson had a good deal on some BB7s so i got that with some jagwire but ill follow som advice on saving rear money on that shock for anew bike but i might need a new crankset cuz this one is almost past repairing and i need the bike for work..

  10. #10
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    Good rant. Enjoy your bike, and nothing wrong with an up grade here and there, especially if it improves the ride. Anyway you can always put your upgrades on your new ride if you ever decide to get a new bike.

  11. #11
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    In my opinion, you will gate hate from people who notice you making your bike seam a lot better than what it really is. When it come down to it, the Blackcomb really isn't anything special. Some of the parts one it are so generic that it doesn't have an identifiable company associated with them! So, it's completely normal for people to hate on it when someone makes excuses for every negative thing that bike has going for itself. Enjoy the bike for the price you paid for it. Don't go talking about a 300 dollar bike as if it's you spent big bucks on it...or else you will get people who bring on the hate.

    PS: I love my 2010 Mongoose Otero Elite

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by iggibar View Post
    In my opinion, you will gate hate from people who notice you making your bike seam a lot better than what it really is. When it come down to it, the Blackcomb really isn't anything special. Some of the parts one it are so generic that it doesn't have an identifiable company associated with them! So, it's completely normal for people to hate on it when someone makes excuses for every negative thing that bike has going for itself. Enjoy the bike for the price you paid for it. Don't go talking about a 300 dollar bike as if it's you spent big bucks on it...or else you will get people who bring on the hate.

    PS: I love my 2010 Mongoose Otero Elite
    A Mongoose Otero Is a very respectable bike that is worth doing upgrades too.

  13. #13
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    I've had a Mongoose Blackcomb for about six months, and it's not a bad bike for the money. Everything on it works pretty well, it's just a little heavy, which doesn't bother me at all, since I don't race. It's a great bike for going those places I don't want to take my Specialized Camber.

    That said, I assembled it myself, and pretty much rebuilt it, regreased bearings, adjusted bearing play, etc. So it was set up right, and I think that made a big difference.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rkj__ View Post
    If you enjoy riding your Mongoose, then ride it with a smile on your face, and don't worry about the haters.
    Love this attitude, not much of this left out there...LOL.

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    Well, I purchased a Blackcomb back in '04 when they first came out (actually '03 when they first manufactured them), and it's frame was truly tough, though the components did need a bit fixing. I say "was truly tough", because the last few years they were building them '06/'07 on, they started to get crappy and cheaper material & components started to pop up on them.

    I still have my Blackcomb, well, actually my wife rides it daily (dirt & urban) these days, but she still rides it on the trails. Of course in '06 & '07 I upgraded the rear shock to a RS SID, changed over to a Manitou Minute 130mm fork, and added BB7's. I had to change the rear derailleur when a rear derailleur of my friends Blackcomb blew up while I was riding it (swapped out bikes for a ride at Santos), so I gave him mine and just purchased a better one for mine. Besides regular wear and tear, it has been a very good bike. The wheels are not super strong though, but the original hubs are still on and rolling with no issues.

    Regular maintenance is a key factor with all bikes to keep them rolling. Fortunately these are not high end bikes, though I have seen high end bikes break just as much, and coast even more to replace. I have three higher end bikes, but these are specific built bikes for my gravity feed pleasure, that are built for the DH/FR abuse i dish out on them whereas the Blackcomb would never handle. Though I have seen some abuse dished out on them and they held out just fine. I am guilty of some of those.

    Why the dissing, because it is not a higher end bike and it is sold at Wally World. Get over it brothers. Nothing from Wally World is high class! Just as 'rkj__' posted.... "If you enjoy riding your Mongoose, then ride it with a smile on your face, and don't worry about the haters."

    Go ride your bike and enjoy it as they are brothers.

    I have seen many riders taking higher end bikes and doing things with them that their bikes were not built for. Hate on them if ya going to hate....LOL!

    Peace & blessings upon all here. On-On!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonsai-CP View Post
    Well...
    Hello again BlackDiamond-1 / ChiliPepper1. Back with yet another new name? Not that I can blame you.
    Last edited by bad mechanic; 11-17-2011 at 09:00 AM.

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    Guys, guys, guys... you're talking crap about my bike. As the saying goes, it's all about the rider and not the bike.

    Sure the Blackcomb's a Walmart bike, but it's the higher end model. It's not one of the cheap kinds for $90 bucks.

    And my bike never came with a sticker on it stating that it's not intended for off-road use.

    I get a kick out of all the pip-squeaks I see standing around on their $1,000 bikes. LOL And then I ride faster and better than them (might have something to do with the fact that I ATG squat over 400 lbs. and have more pedal power in my right leg than they do in their whole entire body).

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by legking View Post
    Guys, guys, guys... you're talking crap about my bike. As the saying goes, it's all about the rider and not the bike.

    Sure the Blackcomb's a Walmart bike, but it's the higher end model. It's not one of the cheap kinds for $90 bucks.

    And my bike never came with a sticker on it stating that it's not intended for off-road use.

    I get a kick out of all the pip-squeaks I see standing around on their $1,000 bikes. LOL And then I ride faster and better than them (might have something to do with the fact that I ATG squat over 400 lbs. and have more pedal power in my right leg than they do in their whole entire body).
    You sound ignorant.

    FWIW, mountain biking is a hobby, and for some people it can become a passion of some sort. So, people who are passionate about something tend to want to get the most out of it. Yes, you can make it down your local trails in a $90 walmart bike, but I can guarantee you won't make it down any trails at Whistler on that thing, or any aggressive trails at all for that matter. Just because you ride a cheaper bike than someone else doesn't make you a badass. Try riding a $3500 bike and see if you will ever want to ride your blackcomb again...

  19. #19
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    well jus an opinion and ive never actually raced but the fastest distance between 2 points is the straightest route right? so if the bike is heavier it will stay on the ground more correct? so no HUGE air which creates and arc and eliminates the straightest point.... and when it come to whoopd de doos it wont catch a whole lotta air so again straightest point and less likly hood for loss of control
    hmm.. Have you ever actually watched a XC(cross country), DH(downhill), DS(dual slalom) race, or even observed trials? . XC, the lighter the bike the easier it is to maneuver and climb regardless of how much " pedal power " you think you might have and takes more energy to move a heavy bicycle. So in a 5mile XC race you'll burn yourself out trying to keep up with those using less energy on lighter bikes. For downhill the fastest/straightest point sometimes is getting air as it will take to long to grab a hand full of brake to slow down enough to keep the tires in contact with the ground which takes more time thus contradicting your theories.

    ride on and have fun!
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  20. #20
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    Black combs are really awesome, you are are a bad arse, and youre soooo fricken strong!! Happy now?

  21. #21
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    Sometimes this forum can be alot of unintentional comedy, lol.

    The Blackcomb is a $300 bike that actually has a very beefy mainframe, with a steel faux bar (not a true 4 bar Horst link) rear end that can handle alot of abuse. It comes stock with Acera/Atlus drivetrain components and early models had WTB tires and saddle.

    The too short on travel RST fork was a hindrance (made the geometry too steep, and no dampening of course on a $300 bike meant that it blew through its 80mm of travel) as was the single wall rims and sometimes weak mechanical disk brakes.

    That said, if a rider had the desire to, it can be built into a decent bike (and yes, it's worthy as long as the owner feels that it is to THEM). I built one up into a nice budget Freeride bike and put it through the paces as I did with far more expensive bikes and it held its own.

    I had built that one with Deore components, a Rockshox Deluxe rear shock/Marzocchi All Mountain 3 fork, Azonic bar/stem/post, Sun rims on basic hubs, etc and it turned into a reliable and sturdy bike that more than handled the urban freeriding I did with it. No DH runs or major stunts, but stair gaps and loading dock drops didn't faze it for the four years I had it. I then sold it, and regretted selling it because it had turned into a fun bike to ride. Now I found a frame cheap and am going to build it into another budget Freeride bike/ heavy duty trailbike. I'll be keeping a video documentary of the build on my YouTube channel for anyone interested.
    Riding the Geese since '98! Check out my youtube videos at www.youtube.com/mongoosejake

  22. #22
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    There isn't value in upgrading a Blackcomb frame. Put that money aside and buy a better full suspension bike to begin with.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by posey24 View Post
    SO i have this Mongoose Blackcomb and everyone hates on it... its not a Specialized or Chumba Racing i get it but WTF? Lets break it down... People say it has horrible components...i get that Walmart bike cant expect much.. now we're down to the frame whats wrong with the frame... its heavy ok... well jus an opinion and ive never actually raced but the fastest distance between 2 points is the straightest route right? so if the bike is heavier it will stay on the ground more correct? so no HUGE air which creates and arc and eliminates the straightest point.... and when it come to whoopd de doos it wont catch a whole lotta air so again straightest point and less likly hood for loss of control... any Blackcomb owners wanna put in their 4 cents or a dollar to this subject...

    My Blackcomb:
    Diamondback BMX Bigfoot Pedals(way comfortable)
    Avid BB7 Rear Brake set up
    Soon to be Fox Vanilla or Rock Shox Bar Rear Shock...
    LOL, Pure 24k gold, this whole thread is gold, its the funniest thread ive read in ages, im going to have to start coming to the mongoose forum to get my laughs from now on.
    OP, thanks for the laughs
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishmongooserider View Post
    Sometimes this forum can be alot of unintentional comedy, lol.

    The Blackcomb is a $300 bike that actually has a very beefy mainframe, with a steel faux bar (not a true 4 bar Horst link) rear end that can handle alot of abuse. It comes stock with Acera/Atlus drivetrain components and early models had WTB tires and saddle.

    The too short on travel RST fork was a hindrance (made the geometry too steep, and no dampening of course on a $300 bike meant that it blew through its 80mm of travel) as was the single wall rims and sometimes weak mechanical disk brakes.

    That said, if a rider had the desire to, it can be built into a decent bike (and yes, it's worthy as long as the owner feels that it is to THEM). I built one up into a nice budget Freeride bike and put it through the paces as I did with far more expensive bikes and it held its own.

    I had built that one with Deore components, a Rockshox Deluxe rear shock/Marzocchi All Mountain 3 fork, Azonic bar/stem/post, Sun rims on basic hubs, etc and it turned into a reliable and sturdy bike that more than handled the urban freeriding I did with it. No DH runs or major stunts, but stair gaps and loading dock drops didn't faze it for the four years I had it. I then sold it, and regretted selling it because it had turned into a fun bike to ride. Now I found a frame cheap and am going to build it into another budget Freeride bike/ heavy duty trailbike. I'll be keeping a video documentary of the build on my YouTube channel for anyone interested.

    2 things are going on here.

    1. You are a shill for Mongoose

    or

    2. You drink too much

    Either way you need to put in your sig your affiliation to Mongoose.

  25. #25
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    I think that bike looks like what they would use in a new robocop movie if Robo had to chase down some unruly kids on bmx's.

  26. #26
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    It's an interesting take on the Mountain Cycle San Andreas.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by posey24 View Post
    lol rants aren'talways right just looking for input if I'm wrong just explain so i can learn a thing or two...
    hopefully my previous post explained why your theory's are incorrect and I also hope I didn't hurt your feelings. It is the internet after all
    '11 Jedi
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    It's an interesting take on the Mountain Cycle San Andreas.
    Similar main tube but the goose has the rear coil pretty exposed on the underside of the bike.

  29. #29
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    why is the front derailleur post so excessively long?
    '11 Jedi
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  30. #30
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    ^^^^^ LOL What in the hell is that
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    ^^^^^ LOL What in the hell is that
    isn't the the Kmart bike this thread is about?
    '11 Jedi
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  32. #32
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    The San Andreas was the full suspension DH MTB that influenced full suspension MTB design for the past 20 years.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  33. #33
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    maybe for single pivot
    '11 Jedi
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  34. #34
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    after some google searches i might be able to buy into it
    '11 Jedi
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    ^^^^^ LOL What in the hell is that
    Normal mountain bicycle.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinning Lizard View Post
    2 things are going on here.

    1. You are a shill for Mongoose

    or

    2. You drink too much

    Either way you need to put in your sig your affiliation to Mongoose.
    Do you have nothing better to do than stalk me on here? Creepy. Just look at my signature line, there's a link to my YouTube channel. Might want to check it out before accusing me.
    Riding the Geese since '98! Check out my youtube videos at www.youtube.com/mongoosejake

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic View Post
    There isn't value in upgrading a Blackcomb frame. Put that money aside and buy a better full suspension bike to begin with.
    A person has the right to do whatever they want to their bike... I wouldn't tell you not to upgrade a bike with SLX to and XTR rear derailleur if that's what you wanted to do.
    Riding the Geese since '98! Check out my youtube videos at www.youtube.com/mongoosejake

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishmongooserider View Post
    A person has the right to do whatever they want to their bike... I wouldn't tell you not to upgrade a bike with SLX to and XTR rear derailleur if that's what you wanted to do.
    I didn't say you can't. I just said there isn't value in it, and there isn't.

    Do the math. At the end of the day you'll spend more money than on an equivalently speced bike and you'll still be stuck with a heavy, low performance frame. Your money buys a lot more when you buy a good bike to begin with.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic View Post
    I didn't say you can't. I just said there isn't value in it, and there isn't.

    Do the math. At the end of the day you'll spend more money than on an equivalently speced bike and you'll still be stuck with a heavy, low performance frame. Your money buys a lot more when you buy a good bike to begin with.
    My point is that value is in the eye of the beholder so to speak. I may rather have a Teocali frame to build, but if someone wants to upgrade a less expensive bike, more power to them. Value is a relative/objective figure. One person's value of something is different than another individual's perception of the same object's value.

    As someone who's had a Blackcomb in the past, and built it up into a better bike, I can say the frame (while it is a heavy frame) is durable, and with the proper length fork (frame's geometry is far better suited to a 100mm-120mm fork, and the headtube is more than reinforced enough-just look at the monocoque front end, very beefy) is a fun handling little bike that can handle smaller stunts while not costing a ton. My previous build totaled around $600-$700 and resulted in a decent budget lighter-duty freeride bike for urban riding.

    A year ago, Airborne had a $700 freeride bike (a 6" travel single pivot model), but not much else exists for a rider looking for a heavy duty bike on a budget, and thats what the Blackcomb can be when built properly.

    I'd not recommend a used freeride bike ever (a higher end freeride bike would be heavily used and beat up to cost only $700) because of the abusive nature of the type of riding. Parts used to build a Blackcomb into a better bike could at least in part end up transfered to a better frame when a riders budget allowed.

    So, value can be very relative, and to me there can be value in the Blackcomb. I've decided to build another, which my progress can be tracked firsthand on my YouTube channel here: Mongoose Blackcomb : Building a budget freeride bike, a video documentary - YouTube
    Riding the Geese since '98! Check out my youtube videos at www.youtube.com/mongoosejake

  40. #40
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    By the way, the San Andreas is a legendary bike that's one of my all-time favorites! Love that bike.
    Riding the Geese since '98! Check out my youtube videos at www.youtube.com/mongoosejake

  41. #41
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    Yeah, the San Andreas is bad ass. I've ridden one and it's not like anything else I've ever ridden. Seeing a properly built one in person is a sight to behold! Although I understand why the design isn't still being used, I certainly have mad respect for the bike. I suspect the Blackcomb design was a way to copy it while getting around the MC design patent.

    The San Andreas 2.0 is a neat design, but it is WAY too much bike for around here.

    I'll say this about the Blackcomb: it's probably a sufficient bike for what many people are looking to do with a bike. I'm not a fan of people bashing on big box bikes and haven't been since my good friend Ronald showed up to a road ride on one 25 years ago and embarrassed me and my friends with our very expensive bikes.

    If you've got a Blackcomb and ride it, congratulations - you are doing more than most of the US population. Ride whatcha got and when it breaks, make a decision: fix it or move on. I understand why some people get attached to frames, for better or worse. Just wish others could understand it too.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishmongooserider View Post
    My point is that value is in the eye of the beholder so to speak. I may rather have a Teocali frame to build, but if someone wants to upgrade a less expensive bike, more power to them. Value is a relative/objective figure.
    Value is objective. If you end up with a setup that costs $$$, after spending $$$$, you lost.

    Upgrading complete bikes is not cost effective, unless you sell off or reuse parts. Shop interwebz for parts you want and build from scratch, or buy a complete you want, if value is a concern.

  43. #43
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    My point is that value is in the eye of the beholder so to speak. I may rather have a Teocali frame to build, but if someone wants to upgrade a less expensive bike, more power to them. Value is a relative/objective figure. One person's value of something is different than another individual's perception of the same object's value.
    you can only polish a turd so much, but it's still a turd

    As someone who's had a Blackcomb in the past, and built it up into a better bike, I can say the frame (while it is a heavy frame) is durable, and with the proper length fork (frame's geometry is far better suited to a 100mm-120mm fork, and the headtube is more than reinforced enough-just look at the monocoque front end, very beefy) is a fun handling little bike that can handle smaller stunts while not costing a ton. My previous build totaled around $600-$700 and resulted in a decent budget lighter-duty freeride bike for urban riding.
    Must have been one heck of a build for $700. You say had in the past implying you upgraded to a better frame which indicates either a fault in the frame or skill increased. The Mountain Cycle clearly has much better and stronger welds then the mongoose. and a "light-duty(?)" freeride is an All mountain bike.


    A year ago, Airborne had a $700 freeride bike (a 6" travel single pivot model), but not much else exists for a rider looking for a heavy duty bike on a budget, and thats what the Blackcomb can be when built properly.
    Again, most higher quality modern day frames alone are $2k. Plenty of "heavy duty" Freeride / DH bikes exist for under $2000 complete. Regardless of how the blackcomb is built, the quality of the frame stays the same and more prone to damage when the geometry of the head tube pushed beyond it's welded limits. which is why most bikes now a days have beefed up welded gusts to support the head tube and seat tubes.


    I'd not recommend a used freeride bike ever (a higher end freeride bike would be heavily used and beat up to cost only $700) because of the abusive nature of the type of riding. Parts used to build a Blackcomb into a better bike could at least in part end up transfered to a better frame when a riders budget allowed.
    Not true at all, some just want to upgrade to a more modern day freeride/dh platform. My $1100 now 13 year old Schwinn Straight 8 which was heavily used for racing prior to me buying it hasn't fallen apart, no cracked welds or any other fame anomalies causing catastrophic failure. Much like any bicycle or mechanical machine, due to normal wear and tear items need to be fixed such as tuning the derailleur, adjusting the breaks truing the wheels... Your philosophy on parts used to build one bike then transfer to a better frame makes me laugh and follows ( which I agree with) Bad Mechanics comment about it's worth more to just put money aside to buy a better bike. Now I'm not saying upgrading is bad! like tires... a seat.. maybe some handle grips but I would never suggest to anyone to fully upgrade a department store bike. To me, $700's in upgrades makes me wonder what kind of upgrades one is making? It costs about $700 alone for a rear shock and over $500 for a decent fork, not to mention the drive train... Now I know times are hard and money is tight and not everyone can afford a $2k+ bike but I would want to get the most for my $$. With that, as far as dh/freeride frames go, I can go to craigslist, pinkbike and ebay and find older 2000-2006 frames for under $1k and complete rigs for under $1500. All of which are still built stronger and better equipped then a department store bike. I'm not trying to bash the walmart/kmart stuff. Everyone has to start somewhere and others just want something to ride and I'm not one to take that freedom away from anyone! BUT Typically that's where most of us start and as skill increases the need for lighter stronger bikes increase. By the nature of the beast regardless to what some might say but for the most part it's true... Quality reflect price....


    By the way, the San Andreas is a legendary bike that's one of my all-time favorites! Love that bike
    The Merit Lawwill 4bar suspension is one of the best suspension designs to date and I too love my bike just as much as you and I'm glad you enjoy yours!
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    Schwinn8,

    You've missed my point on most of my points...

    The time when I had the Blackcomb, I had bought it as an extra bike for others to ride, and ended up liking it enough to see what I could make of it. I ended up really liking the thing in the end.

    At that time, I was already a top ten placing XC and DH rider at the state level, so it wasn't a matter of skill level, just a neat little project for me. I only sold it during a financial crisis related to my younger daughter spending three months in the hospital due to a heart condition, when I ended up selling 4 bikes, 2 computers and my Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited. Don't automatically assume the rider of a low cost bike isn't experienced...

    What you belittle as a turd (that's a you problem btw) may be someone else's only bike, and one they like, so think before you make that statement as you seem far too elitist when you look down on a bike so much. After all, it's not what you ride, but that you ride.

    I referred to it as a lighter duty Freeride bike rather than an all-mountain bike due to the fact that it's not well suited to trail riding (all mountain bikes tend to be beefier trail bikes, pedaling well enough, and light enough to climb still) but rather suits drops off of loading docks and stair gaps well, as long as you don't get too wild.

    Airborne did have a decent Freeride bike for around $700 last year, not $2000. Not all Freeride bikes are $2k for a frame, even Specialized has a complete bike for $2500 (the Status 1).

    Again, I'm not touching a used Freeride bike, and on this the experts tend to agree with me (MBA had an article detailing this, why not to buy a used dh or fr bike, and to be careful of buying any used mountain bike). I know there are deals out on C list, but also bikes with hidden cracks and stressed frames. You can always inspect frames (feeling under the downtube for ridges or bulges for example) but you have to be careful.

    Your comment about a $700 rear shock is wayyyyy off. A quick looksie online shows Marzocchi Roco, Fox DHX's and Rockshox models for DH from $299-$425... Snag a clearance fork at 70% off (I did just that with a Marzocchi All Mountain 3) paired up with a even better priced sale shock (Rockshox Deluxe for $80) and you're nowhere near what you quoted as prices. Just a little savy and patience pays off in big savings. Then snag a big Azonic sale at Wheel World and get a double wall bar, shorty stem, post and A frame pedals at 60% off and the cost is near off brand prices. I can go on and on about how to do a custom build on the cheap. I've done more than my share of frame up builds on low and higher cost bikes, but I always try to save on good gear when possible.

    Now, while I'm certainly not against big box bikes (ie department or mass market bikes) I've always tended to ride a bit higher end (mid line mostly-say $750-$1500 bikes) but sometimes I've gotten the urge to build up a less expensive bike just to do it and have fun while keeping the build cheaper. Ive had nearly 20 bikes in 15 years, so I've had a bit of everything. Again, it's not about what you ride, but that you ride!

    I'm glad you love your old Schwinn (the Lawwill design was cool in its day, and remains so in my opinion) but there's many people out there that'd say it's probably time to hang it on a museum's wall, but I wouldn't tell you to because you enjoy riding it! That's what is awesome, you get to ride what you want! I don't currently ride a cheaper bike, but I would without question, as I simply love riding. I am doing another Blackcomb build this spring though!
    Riding the Geese since '98! Check out my youtube videos at www.youtube.com/mongoosejake

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    times, technology and courses have changed alot in the past 10 years... i highly doubt any department store bike would last a modern day dh course sorry to hear about your little one, hope things are better and it was probably a good thing selling the jeep, they seem to end up more on jack stands then the trail
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    no point in hanging it up yet in my eyes. it's still made of aluminum, has 8.5in. rw travel, 100% compatible with modern day components and still weighs about the same as todays dh rigs... all for under $2500, used, and zero frame issues ...
    '11 Jedi
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishmongooserider View Post
    My point is...
    Axe and shwinn8 summed it up quite nicely for me. You get more for your money buying a nicer bike as opposed to upgrading a low end bike. It's just math. At the end of the day you end up with an expensive bike with a heavy, low quality frame.

    If you want to upgrade one, go ahead, just don't be under the mistaken idea that you'll save money in the long run, or you'll get it to the level of nicer bike for the same price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    The San Andreas was the full suspension DH MTB that influenced full suspension MTB design for the past 20 years.
    I don't think I'd say that. It was a good bike for it's time, and quite stout, but it wasn't ever really revolutionary. I think if you want to point to one DH bike and say "that changed the game" it would be the Intense M1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic View Post
    I don't think I'd say that. It was a good bike for it's time, and quite stout, but it wasn't ever really revolutionary. I think if you want to point to one DH bike and say "that changed the game" it would be the Intense M1.
    aww yes! the M1! how i missed thee i dont know!... the straight 6 also introduced the floating disc brake mount that prevented the notorious suspension lock out that still haunts bikes today
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    Quote Originally Posted by shwinn8 View Post
    times, technology and courses have changed alot in the past 10 years... i highly doubt any department store bike would last a modern day dh course sorry to hear about your little one, hope things are better and it was probably a good thing selling the jeep, they seem to end up more on jack stands then the trail
    Schwinn8, you're assuming I only riding cheap bikes (my bikes are on youtube, I'm not hiding anything)... Not true. I was using a 8" travel full-blown DH rig when I did downhilling. I even said that I wouldn't use the Blackcomb for downhill riding. Please be sure to thoroughly read my posts, as I never endorsed a bigboxbike for DH runs (quite the opposite, I stated more than once that the Blackcomb was not for DH).

    My Jeep was a newer model Grand Cherokee Limited with all options other than navigation that wasnt going to ever be messed up trail riding (got a fantastic deal on the thing, well under book value, and ended up making out on the sale after having it for awhile) and I really liked it, so no I wasnt happy about selling it, but it was something that had to be done. Again, there you go putting down something that someone else likes... I'm seeing a pattern on this forum. Not that I'm bothered by it that much, but others could be if the same treatment was always used with everyone.
    Riding the Geese since '98! Check out my youtube videos at www.youtube.com/mongoosejake

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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic View Post
    Axe and shwinn8 summed it up quite nicely for me. You get more for your money buying a nicer bike as opposed to upgrading a low end bike. It's just math. At the end of the day you end up with an expensive bike with a heavy, low quality frame.

    If you want to upgrade one, go ahead, just don't be under the mistaken idea that you'll save money in the long run, or you'll get it to the level of nicer bike for the same price.
    Look, I dont need a lecture. I made the point of that it is an option for some riders that dont want to (or cant) spend the large sum at once. I've also noticed a common habit here on this forum, where members here automatically "talk down" to anyone who owns/rides/ or even mentions less expensive bikes. Stop that ASAP! Not for me in particular, but rather for the newer riders out there who'll get the message that unless you spend $$$$$$ we dont want you around. That'll push people away from the sport. I've heard that dozens of times from riders who have joined here looking for info and or tech support, only to be ridiculed. They then get discouraged and go elsewhere. Even a rider of substantial experience such as myself is being hassled for even the mention that a cheaper bike could be an option for some riders.

    I never stated the Blackcomb would be on the same level as a much more expensive bike, but that it can be made into a "decent" bike without costing a ton. Browsing sales on jensonusa, pricepoint, CBO, wheel world, bluesky cycling and such can get you good parts at great deals, and allow you on a budget to make the Blackcomb (or any decent but cheap bike) into a better ride. I did this personally when I owned a Blackcomb as a extra bike (at the time I had 4 bikes; a DH bike, an XC/trail bike, a SS, and the Blackcomb) and know that you can do it for around $600-$700 if you find sales and have patience.
    Riding the Geese since '98! Check out my youtube videos at www.youtube.com/mongoosejake

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    wasnt going to ever be messed up trail riding
    No comment ( mall crawlers, they make me laugh.. nothing but a glorified mini van. should carry the same not made for off road use sticker)

    Why do you keep push people to our youtube page?( probably because you're getting paid per views through youtube because they do that kind of thing) Is it too hard to type what you have on here.( just wanted to randomly type in side the parentheses)
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    Holy cow, you guys will argue about ANYTHING.

    From Mountain Bike Action: "Mountain Cycle ... mountain bike builder who revolutionized the stodgy stick figure hard tail with its monocoque San Andrea dual suspension chassis- and led the way with the first full functional hydrolic disk brakes and inverted suspension forks ...."
    MOUNTAIN CYCLE BOUGHT BY KINESIS--DEC 21 | News | mountain-bike-action

    From Bike Magazine: One of the first big names in full suspension was Mountain Cycle. Itís hard to convey just how radical this company was back in 1991, when their San Andreas model debuted. ... It was the first monocoque mountain bike frame available to the general public and it sported squish front and rear (with an inverted fork, to boot). Oh, and at a time when V-Brakes were still in their infancy, the Mountain Cycle came equipped with hydraulic disc brakes.
    Tested: Mountain Cycle Battery

    The San Andreas obviously influenced the Blackcomb design because it was the first monocoque frame and the Blackcomb is a monocoque frame - as was the Intense M-1, which came out almost a decade after the San Andreas.

    Building up an inexpensive frame is not a cost effective way of getting a good performing bike. But it's like when people restore old cars. There's some nostalgia or emotion behind their purpose. And I can't stand when people bag on other people's bikes. No one suggested taking a Blackcomb on a modern DH course. And no one suggested you go out and buy one of these bikes and start upgrading.

    If you've got a frame lying around or get one for free, sometimes it's fun to build it up with parts from the parts bin or bargain hunt.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishmongooserider View Post
    Look, I dont need a lecture. I made the point of that it is an option for some riders that dont want to (or cant) spend the large sum at once.

    We are trying to prevent people from spending more money in the long run by supporting the local bike shops and not low quality china built department store bikes

    I've also noticed a common habit here on this forum, where members here automatically "talk down" to anyone who owns/rides/ or even mentions less expensive bikes. Stop that ASAP!

    all depends on how one reads the big bad letters on the computer screen that get taken out of context as the letters don't show the authors emotions. most is constructive criticism. You are trying to help people and we are trying to protect people from making poor decisions

    Not for me in particular, but rather for the newer riders out there who'll get the message that unless you spend $$$$$$ we dont want you around. That'll push people away from the sport.

    me in particular ( if you hunt for some of my posts) I recommend to those interested in the sport to buy cheap to see if they like the sport. it's money better spent to buy a cheap bike to find out one doesn't like the sport verses spending thousands of dollars on a paperweight. if they do like it to then upgrade to a bike more suited to ones riding style

    I've heard that dozens of times from riders who have joined here looking for info and or tech support, only to be ridiculed. They then get discouraged and go elsewhere. Even a rider of substantial experience such as myself is being hassled for even the mention that a cheaper bike could be an option for some riders.

    dozens of riders? and where are those posts at?

    I never stated the Blackcomb would be on the same level as a much more expensive bike, but that it can be made into a "decent" bike without costing a ton. Browsing sales on jensonusa, pricepoint, CBO, wheel world, bluesky cycling and such can get you good parts at great deals, and allow you on a budget to make the Blackcomb into a better ride. I did this personally when I owned a Blackcomb as a extra bike and know that you can do it for around $600-$700 if you find sales and have patience.

    here's where we have issues again. It seams you are suggesting to buy a department store bike then to purchase/ upgrade the components with parts purchased on line(?). which in it's self (because not everyone like you and I can work on our own bikes) has to bring it to a bike shop and spend more money for those parts to be installed VERSES buying a bike that already has those parts on the bike. Walmart and Kmart sure as heck won't do it nor do I trust them to even assemble one. Bicycles have break in periods ( as i'm sure you know) and require periodic maintenance. maintenance that isn't offered at walmart and again most people don't know how to do or comfortable doing. Most LBS offer this as a perk for 6months to a year. Again! I'm not saying don't buy from a deportment store! I and others are trying to say is by spending a little bit more you save more in the long run.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    Holy cow, you guys will argue about ANYTHING.

    From Mountain Bike Action: "Mountain Cycle ... mountain bike builder who revolutionized the stodgy stick figure hard tail with its monocoque San Andrea dual suspension chassis- and led the way with the first full functional hydrolic disk brakes and inverted suspension forks ...."
    MOUNTAIN CYCLE BOUGHT BY KINESIS--DEC 21 | News | mountain-bike-action

    From Bike Magazine: One of the first big names in full suspension was Mountain Cycle. Itís hard to convey just how radical this company was back in 1991, when their San Andreas model debuted. ... It was the first monocoque mountain bike frame available to the general public and it sported squish front and rear (with an inverted fork, to boot). Oh, and at a time when V-Brakes were still in their infancy, the Mountain Cycle came equipped with hydraulic disc brakes.
    Tested: Mountain Cycle Battery

    The San Andreas obviously influenced the Blackcomb design because it was the first monocoque frame and the Blackcomb is a monocoque frame - as was the Intense M-1, which came out almost a decade after the San Andreas.
    So? I have my own opinion, just like you do. If you don't want anyone disagreeing with you then post on a blog and not a forum.

    Yes, Mountain Cycles were very eye catching, but they never really revolutionized DH like M1 did. In the history of DH the MC is a footnote. Personally I think it's because the rear suspension didn't work well enough, it didn't have enough travel, and the geometry was still too tight.

    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    Building up an inexpensive frame is not a cost effective way of getting a good performing bike.
    This is exactly what I've been saying.



    Quote Originally Posted by irishmongooserider View Post
    Look, I dont need a lecture. I made the point of that it is an option for some riders that dont want to (or cant) spend the large sum at once. I've also noticed a common habit here on this forum, where members here automatically "talk down" to anyone who owns/rides/ or even mentions less expensive bikes. Stop that ASAP! Not for me in particular, but rather for the newer riders out there who'll get the message that unless you spend $$$$$$ we dont want you around. That'll push people away from the sport. I've heard that dozens of times from riders who have joined here looking for info and or tech support, only to be ridiculed. They then get discouraged and go elsewhere. Even a rider of substantial experience such as myself is being hassled for even the mention that a cheaper bike could be an option for some riders.
    "I don't need a lecture" says the man with the massive posts.

    You need to reread what's been written. No one said not to ride the bike, or that a cheap bike cannot be enjoyed. In fact, quite the opposite. What people are saying is not to upgrade it, but rather put the money toward a new bike. The wisdom of this has been proven again and again.

    Don't put words in our mouths just because we're not agreeing with you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irishmongooserider View Post
    I was already a top ten placing XC and DH rider at the state level
    Out of curiosity, which state, class, and year?

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    I say influenced, you say revolutionized - I say tomato, you say cucumber. It was the industry voices, the magazines I referenced, that made the claim that the San Andreas revolutionized mountain bike design.

    As for arguing and writing a blog, I made a comment that the Blackcomb frame was obviously influenced by a frame designed almost 25 years ago and you start arguing that the frame I referenced didn't have as much influence on frame design as some others.

    I say you guys will argue about anything because you can't take anything for what it is. What I find on this forum, a lot, is some people are happy with what they have until some azzhole tells them they shouldn't be happy with it. If someone asks, hey, I'm thinking about buying bike X for $250, then give your opinion. But if someone says, I've already bought bike X, say, cool, congratulations - let me know if you need any help!
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic View Post
    Out of curiosity, which state, class, and year?
    High school varsity mountain bike racing in Kentucky, in 2002/2003/2004. My riding earned me a full college scholarship in the end. Now, going on 27 I have fond memories of those racing years, but now I have a successful sales career, a wife and two daughters so I've chose not to race anymore since being good requires a good amount of training and I'd rather spend time with my family.
    Riding the Geese since '98! Check out my youtube videos at www.youtube.com/mongoosejake

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    Quote Originally Posted by shwinn8 View Post
    No comment ( mall crawlers, they make me laugh.. nothing but a glorified mini van. should carry the same not made for off road use sticker)

    Why do you keep push people to our youtube page?( probably because you're getting paid per views through youtube because they do that kind of thing) Is it too hard to type what you have on here.( just wanted to randomly type in side the parentheses)
    Now we have you telling me what vehicle I shouldn't drive.

    No, I do not make money off of youtube. Monetization is what it's called, and I don't even qualify, so if I did want to, I still couldn't. The link to YouTube is in my signature line, so it shows up no matter what. You don't have to click If you don't want to, but it's there if you're interested.

    I'm nearly done with this forum again, for the same reasons I left three years ago. Anytime that someone posts anything remotely supporting lower end bikes gets entangled into a long debate that's cumbersome to continue. I understand your guys viewpoint, and haven't argued against it, but rather stated a different viewpoint that the majority doesn't like.

    About the dozens of riders who've left this forum for the same reason, there's actually a whole forum started by individuals that left here... You guys pushed newer riders away with the talk of higher end or nothing. Saying that someone is riding a worthless bike, or one not worth fixing/upgrading (not that all on here did take that position, but many do) will drive people away. Other forums gain members, so good for them.
    Riding the Geese since '98! Check out my youtube videos at www.youtube.com/mongoosejake

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    Here's a guy who is passionate about a brand because he used to race the brand more than 15 years ago when the brand was still strong and legit in the competitive world. He makes some good points on his videos that the Mongoose, Pacific Cycles distributed, bikes are a good value at $300 compared to the low end of the big names like Trek that cost double. And I see is a bunch of bagging based on brand and retail sales outlets.

    You've got bad mechanic, who lists his two bikes as Schwinns (most likely really old frames) and Shwinn8, who lists his three bikes as really old frames, arguing that upgrading a heavy, outdated frame isn't cost effective.

    It's madness.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irishmongooserider View Post
    I'm nearly done with this forum again, for the same reasons I left three years ago. Anytime that someone posts anything remotely supporting lower end bikes gets entangled into a long debate that's cumbersome to continue.
    It pretty much looks like you painted yourself into this corner. Your thread titles appear intentionally charged and you argue every single counter argument to the point of butt-hurt because some don't step over to your point-of-view. Why is it so difficult to simply promote what you like and leave it?

    Quote Originally Posted by irishmongooserider View Post
    About the dozens of riders who've left this forum for the same reason, there's actually a whole forum started by individuals that left here...
    bigboxbikes.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malibu412 View Post
    It pretty much looks like you painted yourself into this corner. Your thread titles appear intentionally charged and you argue every single counter argument to the point of butt-hurt because some don't step over to your point-of-view. Why is it so difficult to simply promote what you like and leave it?



    bigboxbikes.com
    I may have done so, getting myself into this position by... Posting about and in support of a brand I've liked for a long time and had good luck and even racing success with. Sure I'm the type to maintain my position against all others, as long as I don't get carried away, or lose sight of the topic. I apologize if I'm actually guilty of any wrongdoing here.

    Yes, that is the forum I'm referring to. I'd already been falsely accused of pushing people to my YouTube channel so I didn't want to add fuel to the fire so to speak by "pushing" people to another forum. There are mid to higher end riders there as well as bigboxbikes, all are welcome if interested, but not because I said so, lol.

    In the three years of not being a member here, I've found nothing to have changed, only that the elitism and self righteousness regarding high end bikes has only increased. Not all members here have shown this attitude, but enough to be a hassle to anyone that has an open minded liking of all bikes.
    Riding the Geese since '98! Check out my youtube videos at www.youtube.com/mongoosejake

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    never mind.. at this point it's just to humorous to comment anymore
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    You've got bad mechanic, who lists his two bikes as Schwinns (most likely really old frames) and Shwinn8, who lists his three bikes as really old frames, arguing that upgrading a heavy, outdated frame isn't cost effective.
    There is a big difference between an old high end frame and and a newer low end frame.

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    So, if I buy $700 in parts and put them on a Blackcomb, it's different than putting $700 in parts on a 15 year old Schwinn?
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    So, if I buy $700 in parts and put them on a Blackcomb, it's different than putting $700 in parts on a 15 year old Schwinn?
    Absolutely. One is a high quality and high performance frame. The other one is a low quality and low performance frame. Do you really not see the difference or are you just trolling me now?

    I will say this, however. Unless a person has a very good reason to build up an old frame (even a Homegrown frame) they'll get more for their money buying a new bike.

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    since you said 15 years old yes, a 15 year old Schwinn Straight 6 frame is built stronger and able to be put through a hell of a lot more , the 15 year old Carbon fiber Homegrown All mountains are lighter and
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    ^^^ and what?
    Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. -- Wild Bill

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic View Post
    Unless a person has a very good reason to build up an old frame (even a Homegrown frame) they'll get more for their money buying a new bike.
    ^This
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malibu412 View Post
    ^^^ and what?
    aaannnndddd.... i just forgot to delete that was all
    '11 Jedi
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  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by shwinn8 View Post
    never mind.. at this point it's just to humorous to comment anymore
    So, why keep commenting?
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  73. #73
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    yup
    '11 Jedi
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  74. #74
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    This has to be one of the dumbest pissing matches.

  75. #75
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    Why is that?
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  76. #76
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    'Cuz all Moongoose/Walgoose/bigboxbike threads end up a train wreck.
    Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. -- Wild Bill

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malibu412 View Post
    'Cuz all Moongoose/Walgoose/bigboxbike threads end up a train wreck.
    This.

    My first bike was a Mongoose Otero. I thought it was the bees knees and everyone else spending all their money on higher end bikes were stupid. Then I blew out the rear linkage and realized that if riding is to become a passion, proper equipment is needed. Spending more money up front sometimes saves you a lot of headache and regret later.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangaroo View Post
    This.

    My first bike was a Mongoose Otero. I thought it was the bees knees and everyone else spending all their money on higher end bikes were stupid. Then I blew out the rear linkage and realized that if riding is to become a passion, proper equipment is needed. Spending more money up front sometimes saves you a lot of headache and regret later.
    Well, you learned something, didn't you? For most people, if their only choice was spend $800 or spend nothing, they would spend nothing and never get the chance to learn that lesson.

    Again, if someone does not have a bike yet and is requesting your opinion, steer them toward a proper MTB. If they already have a big box bike, let them be happy until they break it. When they do,mthey'll come asking how to fix it. That's when you tell them it's not worth fixing.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  79. #79
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    I've been down the road of the wallyworld bike. I've ridden 10k dollar mountain bikes, and a lot in between.
    I am able to discern the difference in how an entry level, bike shop quality full suspension bike rides, Vs. the very same manufacturers higher end offerings. I can feel the difference in a couple degrees of head tube angle, or a shorter or longer chainstay.... I understand bicycle geometry. I also have about an 8 year background in welding and fabrication and will soon be building a frame jig to begin building my own bike frames, as such I've been researching a lot, and talking to a former professional frame builder to answer my fabrication and frame jig questions. I understand the science behind bicycles.

    Regarding the blackcomb, the ditch, the and the similar bikes from Schwinn... they are basically the same thing with slightly different components, and slightly different geometries, all of them copy old suspension designs. Not a single one uses a pivot bearing anywhere on the frame, its all bushing style connections full of stiction and/or play. They have a severe amount of lateral flex, what this means is, anytime you stand to climb or spring you are flexing the frame laterally, not to mention the suspension bob due to the rear shock having NO dampening whatsoever. The dept. store schwinn I bought to start riding again after a hiatus of several years would experience tire rub if I stood up to sprint or climb. The frames aren't dangerous, or more prone to breaking, mainly because they are severely overbuilt, heavy gauge tubing is used on all of them. The hazard for "off road riding" is mainly the fork, and wheels, as they aren't designed for mountain bikes, but just as general use products for bikes that might see some gravel roads, but mainly will roll down paved bike paths. For most people who buy these bikes, this is fine... They get out of them what they paid for them, and typically they last a few years and then get thrown out. Summer time at the bike shop is a parade of people pulling dept. store bikes out of storage and wanting to get them tuned up so they can ride... then they hear 80 bucks for a complete tune and junk the bike, starting all over again, "I only paid 150 for it!"

    The general attitude here is pretty much the best one to have:
    If you already have one, great, ride it, fix small things if they break, but don't invest much in this bike, and when it craps out, if you are really wanting to get into this sport, buy a bike shop quality bike, and keep at it.

    The attitude on used expressed by Irishmongooserider: just like you don't buy a used car from a private seller without having a mechanic check it over, the same should go for high end mountain bikes. the seller should agree to having a bike shop check it over, maybe meet you there with the bike. most shops offer free estimates, so have them check it out. it lets you know what you're getting into, as well as gives you bargaining room on the purchase, maybe the seller would knock off the cost that the shop gives you on the repairs. Don't forget though, if you are going to use a shop's services like this, you are sort of implying you plan to spend money with them, at the very least, buying whatever consumables you need from them, even if you can get them cheaper online and do it yourself.. maybe spend the extra 5 bucks on the new chain at your LBS instead of online, and buy your lubes and such there as well... MINIMUM, if you want that shop there to help you when you're stuck, you need to show them loyalty or they might not be around next time you need their mechanic.(not directed at you irishmongoose, just a "royal you").

    Dept. store bikes can be upgraded to a safe level for basic trail riding/XC. They will not be as pleasant to ride, will not handle as well, will not climb as well, will not descend as well, and will not last as long. but doing this will cost you as much as a good used bike which will last you longer, and perform better, making your experience more enjoyable. Additionally, there are factors in these low quality bikes that start to become safety issues all their own, excluding complete failure of components, there are aspects that a better quality bike wouldn't suffer. For example, the pogostick rebound of the rear shock on these bikes can lead to OTB crashes because there is no way to slow it down. The flimsy fork and wheels can cause difficulty navigating technical rock gardens, or rooty sections of trail, causing deflection of the front wheel, again, potentially causing OTB crash, or simple front tire washout, point is, you're more likely to crash on inferior equipment then you are with better parts. The list goes on, but unless you are a VERY casual rider, who ventures into the woods only a few times a year, and mainly rides paved paths and some gravel/dirt roads, riding less than once a week, You should not look to make a long term ride out of a wal-mart bike.


    this advice is an echo of posts I've made before, and the product of having been through upgrading a wal-mart bike, owning a "pro line" mongoose, working in a bike shop, and having metallurgical and metal fabrication knowledge. It can get you into riding, and that is awesome. And certain parts CAN translate over to a new bike. But the value in a bike shop quality bike is something that cannot be matched by dept. store mountain bike style bikes... and we didn't even get into frame sizing issues and proper fit, and how that relates to safety, comfort, pain while riding, etc.

    This post is already a novel, but I hope it reaches people it can help to make a better decision regarding their new bike purchase, or what to do with the mongoose blackcomb they just got at a yard sale for 50 bucks to get into mountain biking with.

    TLDR:
    dept store bikes are not worth lots of upgrades, the difference in the frames is hard to understand without a fair bit of knowledge of bicycle frame design, and material specifications, but just understand they are on average, at least 150% as heavy as a comparable frame on a bike shop brand bike, are more flexy, come only in one size, and are not as strong, though not unsafe. the weak parts are fork and wheels, and are dangerous if they fail. Buying used is fine, but get it checked by a bike mechanic before buying. Dept. stores sell toy bikes, understand that you are getting a toy bike meant for kids to ride around the neighborhood, and plan your riding, and expendatures accordingly.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iridethedirt View Post
    I've been down the road of the wallyworld bike...
    Excellent, excellent post.

  81. #81
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    This would be my infamous Mongoose Blackcomb known as "The Tank". I bought this bike in 2005 and it was my first mountain bike. I LIVED basketball for years, but as I got into my 40's and couldn't compete well with the 20 year olds anymore, I was missing that "passion" sport for awhile. On a whim, I decided to try mountain biking. I don't even recall why, I just remember I was more and more interested in it, and I had seen some at WalMart. I went down and bought a Mongoose 250 or some crap like that. I knew nothing, but it took me about 1 ride to know that it was a horrible bike. I returned it and then upgraded to the Blackcomb...it was $350 and I thought I was throwing down some serious cash. There was a serious of trails in the met park behind my house. It gassed me just riding a few miles, but I ended up coming up with a good flow of trails that was about 5 1/2 miles. I couldn't believe how this bike would just romp over anything in it's path. I couldn't wait to get home everyday to try to beat my time. I couldn't believe someone would spend thousands of dollars for a "proper" mountain bike. I did, however, have a bike shop guy set it up the best he could, so it was better than your average Wallybike.

    My dad and I went to Colorado on a trip and I talked him into renting some mountain bikes. He enjoyed it so much that he was interested in buying one. We talked about it and decided on a mid-level Full Suspension bike for each of us. Now I was starting to see why these bikes were so much better. That bike was night and day from the Blackcomb. It was SO much better in every way. But I can say this. That old Mongoose was built like a brick ****-house. While my other bikes were breaking, the 'goose was always there as a backup. I was talking with one of my friends at the local bike shop, complaining that my expensive bikes were breaking, but my old beater WalMart bike never had a problem. He said that was because it was made of iron, and couldn't be broken. Still like that line! I kept the old bike around and rode it on occasion to make things harder for myself, and to appreciate what I had. I have beaten the living stink out of this bike, and somehow it just keeps on going.

    Everyone would call it "The Tank", so I went with it. I took the original stickers off, and some Tank stickers made that I applied. I put the heaviest and slowest Kenda Stick-E Nevegals on it to make it heavier and harder to pedal. I bought a dirt lid to wear while I rode that behemoth just for effect. When I barrel by on a rocky trail, it sounds like a garbage truck just rolled by. The brakes and suspension are atrocious. I ride it now and it is like a baseball player warming up with a fungo bat. He swings that heavy ass thing around for awhile, then when he picks up that regular bat it feels like bamboo.

    It is for fun, agony, and nostalgia. The bottom line on this bike, however, is that I would not recommend it to a first timer trying to get into the sport. I would probably recommend a hardtail from one of the bigger company's that you can get for a very decent price...or search over Craigslist and you can find a lot of good, older bikes for a very decent price that would work totally fine for someone new to the sport.





    Mongoose Blackcomb WHAT UP?-tank.jpg
    Last edited by smokehouse4444; 02-14-2013 at 08:47 PM.

  82. #82
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    Neat!
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  83. #83
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    Yup. I'm resurrecting this "dead horse" thread. If you can read thru all the elitist vs humble pissing contests, there's actually some good information in here about when to and not to upgrade components and frames. So, thank you for that.
    I am picking up a Blackcomb for $50. I simply love the look of the bike, and for my skill set and future goals on a mountain bike, the Blackcomb will always be up to my riding.
    My plan is to upgrade it as I find components that are high end, low cost, and great condition.
    The plans are for BB7s, a good front and rear shock with as much travel as the frame can allow, and good dampening.
    Deore XT or XTR and 8 or 9 Speed.

    Mine and my girls favorite colors are royal purple and Hunter green, so the frame will get royal purple powder coat and Hunter green accents. It'll get fenders cuz I don't like spraying mud and water any more than needed.

    When I'm done, I'll have a very distinctive bike that will forever be more capable than I am. I don't expect to invest more than $500 into it, including paint, powder coat, and decals.
    As long as I maintain it properly, there won't be a need to ever replace it.

    In my book, that formula adds up to a win.
    As for you elitists who want to tell me and my kind what a waste this project is, keep running your mouth and screwing up the perception of the sport for newcomers. Those of us with a brain and a bit of understanding of a person's needs, desires, and pocket book, will keep doing our best to counteract the damage you do.

    Now its time to see if the guy I spoke to last week still has the XT shifters and derailleurs for $60! Ah, shopping!

  84. #84
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    Oh good grief.

    Quote Originally Posted by WisdomWarlord View Post
    When I'm done, I'll have a very distinctive bike that will forever be more capable than I am. I don't expect to invest more than $500 into it, including paint, powder coat, and decals. As long as I maintain it properly, there won't be a need to ever replace it.
    If that floats your boat, enjoy. Just be aware you'll end up with less bike for your money upgrading it, as opposed to taking that money and buying higher end to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by WisdomWarlord View Post
    As for you elitists who want to tell me and my kind what a waste this project is, keep running your mouth and screwing up the perception of the sport for newcomers. Those of us with a brain and a bit of understanding of a person's needs, desires, and pocket book, will keep doing our best to counteract the damage you do.
    Perhaps you should read this thread again. This isn't about elitist versus new people, or attitudes, or humility. This thread discusses the basic fact that while a department store bike is worth riding and maintaining, that you get significantly less value for your money upgrading one as opposed to just buying a higher end bike. The numbers don't lie on that one.

    So instead of being condescending to us, maybe understand that a lot of us got into riding because of a department store bike, tried upgrading them, and learned some lessons the more expensive way.

  85. #85
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    Lurker of the Decade Award goes to: WisdomWarlord!

    Joined two years ago and saved up all his passion and pennies so he could post up this flame bait as his first. I'm surprised you remembered your user name and password.

    And the train wreck rolls on...
    Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. -- Wild Bill

  86. #86
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    Does the Mongoose Blackcomb have trigger shifters? Also, what type of fork does it
    have?

    Thanks!

  87. #87
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    This is going to be amazing!
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  88. #88
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    I am a noob. I have one of the later red Blackcombs. I purchased it complete, new, from wallyworld for 90 bucks a long time ago because it had light rust on the cheaper raw metal bits. Some steal wool took care of that.

    I'm much more aggressive than your casual rider. I raced dirt bikes in a jr class a long time ago and I'm pretty hard on my equipment. I'm also do all of my own mechanic work because I enjoy learning and working on things (manual and youtube are great tools as well).

    I do wish I could bring myself to spend 1000 or more on a bicycle I may ride on a trail once a month (more frequent of late seems how I now have many miles of trails to ride)... but the blackcomb has done fine. I've gone through everything, cleaned and greased and checked all the bolts when I first got it.

    I have replaced a rim I tried to true myself (now I know how to do better, lmbo) and I'm replacing a derailleur I smashed.

    My only advice, as with any other sport, make sure everything is in working condition, and wear your protective gear. Don't let people look down on you. They're not the sort of ppl you want to be hanging out with in the first place. And don't look down on others. We ride what we can, when we can.

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    Reviving the thread.

    About 6 months ago I took my 10 year old blackcomb for some trail riding. The trail had a pretty intense drop and with a stock bike things didnt end too well. I am 5'10" at the time 248lbs. After that near death experience I decided it was time to either rebuild or buy new. After reading several forums and articles of people bashing blackcomb owners for putting money into the bike I decided I would join the group of "fools".

    First things first the bike has horrible geometry and crap componentry/suspension, basically all thats good is the frame so I stripped everything down had the frame powdercoated then built it back up.

    I sourced a nice fox factory 6.5x1.5 rear 3 position shock with a remote and managed to get my hands on some nice fox 32 forks with 140mm travel which was also remote capable.

    I installed a ks dropper post, cane creek head bearing, shimano xt 2x11 gear set with 11-42 rear gears and a 26x38 front gear, shimano saint pedals, mrp bash guard and chain guide, shimano ice tech 180mm front and 160mm rear disc's as well as shimano xt hydraulic brakes. I used race face carbon bars and race face stem and installed a wtb rocket race saddle. I had velocity build me some custom blunt 35 wheels so i could run the 2x11 set up with tubeless kenda nevegal pro tires.

    The bike stock I believe was 42lbs. I weighed mine in at 35.6lbs. I installed a bontrager frame pump where the water bottle cage goes and I carry a camelbak.

    First ride I still am fat and out of shape but over the past 4-5 months I have been losing weight and taking the bike on more serious trails. Currently I am 210lbs and have survived without crashing trips to Noble Canyon, Rockhouse Mountain, Otay Lakes trail, Snake trail with pablo shoot old mexico and the rest of the H street to bonita trails. The bike eats up everything and while my friends get flats and break their 5k carbon bikes my mongoose has yet to suffer a casualty.

    Yes its heavy, yes geometry sucks compared to the latest and greatest but ive not had an issue tackeling everything my friends have traversed on their bikes. So stock yes the bike is horrible but you can source complete fox suspension for about 600 bucks and a good tune and it will make a great trail/all mountain bike or spend a little more and make it more extreme where its capabilities will probably never be exceeded by mine!

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