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  1. #76
    FKA Malibu412
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    'Cuz all Moongoose/Walgoose/bigboxbike threads end up a train wreck.
    "I love the bike. It's my meditation. I think I'm bike-sexual." -Robin Williams

  2. #77
    undercover brother
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malibu412 View Post
    'Cuz all Moongoose/Walgoose/bigboxbike threads end up a train wreck.
    This.

    My first bike was a Mongoose Otero. I thought it was the bees knees and everyone else spending all their money on higher end bikes were stupid. Then I blew out the rear linkage and realized that if riding is to become a passion, proper equipment is needed. Spending more money up front sometimes saves you a lot of headache and regret later.

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by tangaroo View Post
    This.

    My first bike was a Mongoose Otero. I thought it was the bees knees and everyone else spending all their money on higher end bikes were stupid. Then I blew out the rear linkage and realized that if riding is to become a passion, proper equipment is needed. Spending more money up front sometimes saves you a lot of headache and regret later.
    Well, you learned something, didn't you? For most people, if their only choice was spend $800 or spend nothing, they would spend nothing and never get the chance to learn that lesson.

    Again, if someone does not have a bike yet and is requesting your opinion, steer them toward a proper MTB. If they already have a big box bike, let them be happy until they break it. When they do,mthey'll come asking how to fix it. That's when you tell them it's not worth fixing.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  4. #79
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    I've been down the road of the wallyworld bike. I've ridden 10k dollar mountain bikes, and a lot in between.
    I am able to discern the difference in how an entry level, bike shop quality full suspension bike rides, Vs. the very same manufacturers higher end offerings. I can feel the difference in a couple degrees of head tube angle, or a shorter or longer chainstay.... I understand bicycle geometry. I also have about an 8 year background in welding and fabrication and will soon be building a frame jig to begin building my own bike frames, as such I've been researching a lot, and talking to a former professional frame builder to answer my fabrication and frame jig questions. I understand the science behind bicycles.

    Regarding the blackcomb, the ditch, the and the similar bikes from Schwinn... they are basically the same thing with slightly different components, and slightly different geometries, all of them copy old suspension designs. Not a single one uses a pivot bearing anywhere on the frame, its all bushing style connections full of stiction and/or play. They have a severe amount of lateral flex, what this means is, anytime you stand to climb or spring you are flexing the frame laterally, not to mention the suspension bob due to the rear shock having NO dampening whatsoever. The dept. store schwinn I bought to start riding again after a hiatus of several years would experience tire rub if I stood up to sprint or climb. The frames aren't dangerous, or more prone to breaking, mainly because they are severely overbuilt, heavy gauge tubing is used on all of them. The hazard for "off road riding" is mainly the fork, and wheels, as they aren't designed for mountain bikes, but just as general use products for bikes that might see some gravel roads, but mainly will roll down paved bike paths. For most people who buy these bikes, this is fine... They get out of them what they paid for them, and typically they last a few years and then get thrown out. Summer time at the bike shop is a parade of people pulling dept. store bikes out of storage and wanting to get them tuned up so they can ride... then they hear 80 bucks for a complete tune and junk the bike, starting all over again, "I only paid 150 for it!"

    The general attitude here is pretty much the best one to have:
    If you already have one, great, ride it, fix small things if they break, but don't invest much in this bike, and when it craps out, if you are really wanting to get into this sport, buy a bike shop quality bike, and keep at it.

    The attitude on used expressed by Irishmongooserider: just like you don't buy a used car from a private seller without having a mechanic check it over, the same should go for high end mountain bikes. the seller should agree to having a bike shop check it over, maybe meet you there with the bike. most shops offer free estimates, so have them check it out. it lets you know what you're getting into, as well as gives you bargaining room on the purchase, maybe the seller would knock off the cost that the shop gives you on the repairs. Don't forget though, if you are going to use a shop's services like this, you are sort of implying you plan to spend money with them, at the very least, buying whatever consumables you need from them, even if you can get them cheaper online and do it yourself.. maybe spend the extra 5 bucks on the new chain at your LBS instead of online, and buy your lubes and such there as well... MINIMUM, if you want that shop there to help you when you're stuck, you need to show them loyalty or they might not be around next time you need their mechanic.(not directed at you irishmongoose, just a "royal you").

    Dept. store bikes can be upgraded to a safe level for basic trail riding/XC. They will not be as pleasant to ride, will not handle as well, will not climb as well, will not descend as well, and will not last as long. but doing this will cost you as much as a good used bike which will last you longer, and perform better, making your experience more enjoyable. Additionally, there are factors in these low quality bikes that start to become safety issues all their own, excluding complete failure of components, there are aspects that a better quality bike wouldn't suffer. For example, the pogostick rebound of the rear shock on these bikes can lead to OTB crashes because there is no way to slow it down. The flimsy fork and wheels can cause difficulty navigating technical rock gardens, or rooty sections of trail, causing deflection of the front wheel, again, potentially causing OTB crash, or simple front tire washout, point is, you're more likely to crash on inferior equipment then you are with better parts. The list goes on, but unless you are a VERY casual rider, who ventures into the woods only a few times a year, and mainly rides paved paths and some gravel/dirt roads, riding less than once a week, You should not look to make a long term ride out of a wal-mart bike.


    this advice is an echo of posts I've made before, and the product of having been through upgrading a wal-mart bike, owning a "pro line" mongoose, working in a bike shop, and having metallurgical and metal fabrication knowledge. It can get you into riding, and that is awesome. And certain parts CAN translate over to a new bike. But the value in a bike shop quality bike is something that cannot be matched by dept. store mountain bike style bikes... and we didn't even get into frame sizing issues and proper fit, and how that relates to safety, comfort, pain while riding, etc.

    This post is already a novel, but I hope it reaches people it can help to make a better decision regarding their new bike purchase, or what to do with the mongoose blackcomb they just got at a yard sale for 50 bucks to get into mountain biking with.

    TLDR:
    dept store bikes are not worth lots of upgrades, the difference in the frames is hard to understand without a fair bit of knowledge of bicycle frame design, and material specifications, but just understand they are on average, at least 150% as heavy as a comparable frame on a bike shop brand bike, are more flexy, come only in one size, and are not as strong, though not unsafe. the weak parts are fork and wheels, and are dangerous if they fail. Buying used is fine, but get it checked by a bike mechanic before buying. Dept. stores sell toy bikes, understand that you are getting a toy bike meant for kids to ride around the neighborhood, and plan your riding, and expendatures accordingly.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iridethedirt View Post
    I've been down the road of the wallyworld bike...
    Excellent, excellent post.

  6. #81
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    This would be my infamous Mongoose Blackcomb known as "The Tank". I bought this bike in 2005 and it was my first mountain bike. I LIVED basketball for years, but as I got into my 40's and couldn't compete well with the 20 year olds anymore, I was missing that "passion" sport for awhile. On a whim, I decided to try mountain biking. I don't even recall why, I just remember I was more and more interested in it, and I had seen some at WalMart. I went down and bought a Mongoose 250 or some crap like that. I knew nothing, but it took me about 1 ride to know that it was a horrible bike. I returned it and then upgraded to the Blackcomb...it was $350 and I thought I was throwing down some serious cash. There was a serious of trails in the met park behind my house. It gassed me just riding a few miles, but I ended up coming up with a good flow of trails that was about 5 1/2 miles. I couldn't believe how this bike would just romp over anything in it's path. I couldn't wait to get home everyday to try to beat my time. I couldn't believe someone would spend thousands of dollars for a "proper" mountain bike. I did, however, have a bike shop guy set it up the best he could, so it was better than your average Wallybike.

    My dad and I went to Colorado on a trip and I talked him into renting some mountain bikes. He enjoyed it so much that he was interested in buying one. We talked about it and decided on a mid-level Full Suspension bike for each of us. Now I was starting to see why these bikes were so much better. That bike was night and day from the Blackcomb. It was SO much better in every way. But I can say this. That old Mongoose was built like a brick ****-house. While my other bikes were breaking, the 'goose was always there as a backup. I was talking with one of my friends at the local bike shop, complaining that my expensive bikes were breaking, but my old beater WalMart bike never had a problem. He said that was because it was made of iron, and couldn't be broken. Still like that line! I kept the old bike around and rode it on occasion to make things harder for myself, and to appreciate what I had. I have beaten the living stink out of this bike, and somehow it just keeps on going.

    Everyone would call it "The Tank", so I went with it. I took the original stickers off, and some Tank stickers made that I applied. I put the heaviest and slowest Kenda Stick-E Nevegals on it to make it heavier and harder to pedal. I bought a dirt lid to wear while I rode that behemoth just for effect. When I barrel by on a rocky trail, it sounds like a garbage truck just rolled by. The brakes and suspension are atrocious. I ride it now and it is like a baseball player warming up with a fungo bat. He swings that heavy ass thing around for awhile, then when he picks up that regular bat it feels like bamboo.

    It is for fun, agony, and nostalgia. The bottom line on this bike, however, is that I would not recommend it to a first timer trying to get into the sport. I would probably recommend a hardtail from one of the bigger company's that you can get for a very decent price...or search over Craigslist and you can find a lot of good, older bikes for a very decent price that would work totally fine for someone new to the sport.





    Mongoose Blackcomb WHAT UP?-tank.jpg
    Last edited by smokehouse4444; 02-14-2013 at 08:47 PM.

  7. #82
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    Neat!
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  8. #83
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    Yup. I'm resurrecting this "dead horse" thread. If you can read thru all the elitist vs humble pissing contests, there's actually some good information in here about when to and not to upgrade components and frames. So, thank you for that.
    I am picking up a Blackcomb for $50. I simply love the look of the bike, and for my skill set and future goals on a mountain bike, the Blackcomb will always be up to my riding.
    My plan is to upgrade it as I find components that are high end, low cost, and great condition.
    The plans are for BB7s, a good front and rear shock with as much travel as the frame can allow, and good dampening.
    Deore XT or XTR and 8 or 9 Speed.

    Mine and my girls favorite colors are royal purple and Hunter green, so the frame will get royal purple powder coat and Hunter green accents. It'll get fenders cuz I don't like spraying mud and water any more than needed.

    When I'm done, I'll have a very distinctive bike that will forever be more capable than I am. I don't expect to invest more than $500 into it, including paint, powder coat, and decals.
    As long as I maintain it properly, there won't be a need to ever replace it.

    In my book, that formula adds up to a win.
    As for you elitists who want to tell me and my kind what a waste this project is, keep running your mouth and screwing up the perception of the sport for newcomers. Those of us with a brain and a bit of understanding of a person's needs, desires, and pocket book, will keep doing our best to counteract the damage you do.

    Now its time to see if the guy I spoke to last week still has the XT shifters and derailleurs for $60! Ah, shopping!

  9. #84
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    Oh good grief.

    Quote Originally Posted by WisdomWarlord View Post
    When I'm done, I'll have a very distinctive bike that will forever be more capable than I am. I don't expect to invest more than $500 into it, including paint, powder coat, and decals. As long as I maintain it properly, there won't be a need to ever replace it.
    If that floats your boat, enjoy. Just be aware you'll end up with less bike for your money upgrading it, as opposed to taking that money and buying higher end to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by WisdomWarlord View Post
    As for you elitists who want to tell me and my kind what a waste this project is, keep running your mouth and screwing up the perception of the sport for newcomers. Those of us with a brain and a bit of understanding of a person's needs, desires, and pocket book, will keep doing our best to counteract the damage you do.
    Perhaps you should read this thread again. This isn't about elitist versus new people, or attitudes, or humility. This thread discusses the basic fact that while a department store bike is worth riding and maintaining, that you get significantly less value for your money upgrading one as opposed to just buying a higher end bike. The numbers don't lie on that one.

    So instead of being condescending to us, maybe understand that a lot of us got into riding because of a department store bike, tried upgrading them, and learned some lessons the more expensive way.

  10. #85
    FKA Malibu412
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    Lurker of the Decade Award goes to: WisdomWarlord!

    Joined two years ago and saved up all his passion and pennies so he could post up this flame bait as his first. I'm surprised you remembered your user name and password.

    And the train wreck rolls on...
    "I love the bike. It's my meditation. I think I'm bike-sexual." -Robin Williams

  11. #86
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    Does the Mongoose Blackcomb have trigger shifters? Also, what type of fork does it
    have?

    Thanks!

  12. #87
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    This is going to be amazing!
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  13. #88
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    I am a noob. I have one of the later red Blackcombs. I purchased it complete, new, from wallyworld for 90 bucks a long time ago because it had light rust on the cheaper raw metal bits. Some steal wool took care of that.

    I'm much more aggressive than your casual rider. I raced dirt bikes in a jr class a long time ago and I'm pretty hard on my equipment. I'm also do all of my own mechanic work because I enjoy learning and working on things (manual and youtube are great tools as well).

    I do wish I could bring myself to spend 1000 or more on a bicycle I may ride on a trail once a month (more frequent of late seems how I now have many miles of trails to ride)... but the blackcomb has done fine. I've gone through everything, cleaned and greased and checked all the bolts when I first got it.

    I have replaced a rim I tried to true myself (now I know how to do better, lmbo) and I'm replacing a derailleur I smashed.

    My only advice, as with any other sport, make sure everything is in working condition, and wear your protective gear. Don't let people look down on you. They're not the sort of ppl you want to be hanging out with in the first place. And don't look down on others. We ride what we can, when we can.

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