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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic View Post
    Axe and shwinn8 summed it up quite nicely for me. You get more for your money buying a nicer bike as opposed to upgrading a low end bike. It's just math. At the end of the day you end up with an expensive bike with a heavy, low quality frame.

    If you want to upgrade one, go ahead, just don't be under the mistaken idea that you'll save money in the long run, or you'll get it to the level of nicer bike for the same price.
    Look, I dont need a lecture. I made the point of that it is an option for some riders that dont want to (or cant) spend the large sum at once. I've also noticed a common habit here on this forum, where members here automatically "talk down" to anyone who owns/rides/ or even mentions less expensive bikes. Stop that ASAP! Not for me in particular, but rather for the newer riders out there who'll get the message that unless you spend $$$$$$ we dont want you around. That'll push people away from the sport. I've heard that dozens of times from riders who have joined here looking for info and or tech support, only to be ridiculed. They then get discouraged and go elsewhere. Even a rider of substantial experience such as myself is being hassled for even the mention that a cheaper bike could be an option for some riders.

    I never stated the Blackcomb would be on the same level as a much more expensive bike, but that it can be made into a "decent" bike without costing a ton. Browsing sales on jensonusa, pricepoint, CBO, wheel world, bluesky cycling and such can get you good parts at great deals, and allow you on a budget to make the Blackcomb (or any decent but cheap bike) into a better ride. I did this personally when I owned a Blackcomb as a extra bike (at the time I had 4 bikes; a DH bike, an XC/trail bike, a SS, and the Blackcomb) and know that you can do it for around $600-$700 if you find sales and have patience.
    Riding the Geese since '98! Check out my youtube videos at www.youtube.com/mongoosejake

  2. #52
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    wasnt going to ever be messed up trail riding
    No comment ( mall crawlers, they make me laugh.. nothing but a glorified mini van. should carry the same not made for off road use sticker)

    Why do you keep push people to our youtube page?( probably because you're getting paid per views through youtube because they do that kind of thing) Is it too hard to type what you have on here.( just wanted to randomly type in side the parentheses)
    '11 Jedi
    '01 Straight8
    '01Rocket88< ran over it.. always do a full walk around!
    '00 Homegrown

  3. #53
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    Holy cow, you guys will argue about ANYTHING.

    From Mountain Bike Action: "Mountain Cycle ... mountain bike builder who revolutionized the stodgy stick figure hard tail with its monocoque San Andrea dual suspension chassis- and led the way with the first full functional hydrolic disk brakes and inverted suspension forks ...."
    MOUNTAIN CYCLE BOUGHT BY KINESIS--DEC 21 | News | mountain-bike-action

    From Bike Magazine: One of the first big names in full suspension was Mountain Cycle. Itís hard to convey just how radical this company was back in 1991, when their San Andreas model debuted. ... It was the first monocoque mountain bike frame available to the general public and it sported squish front and rear (with an inverted fork, to boot). Oh, and at a time when V-Brakes were still in their infancy, the Mountain Cycle came equipped with hydraulic disc brakes.
    Tested: Mountain Cycle Battery

    The San Andreas obviously influenced the Blackcomb design because it was the first monocoque frame and the Blackcomb is a monocoque frame - as was the Intense M-1, which came out almost a decade after the San Andreas.

    Building up an inexpensive frame is not a cost effective way of getting a good performing bike. But it's like when people restore old cars. There's some nostalgia or emotion behind their purpose. And I can't stand when people bag on other people's bikes. No one suggested taking a Blackcomb on a modern DH course. And no one suggested you go out and buy one of these bikes and start upgrading.

    If you've got a frame lying around or get one for free, sometimes it's fun to build it up with parts from the parts bin or bargain hunt.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishmongooserider View Post
    Look, I dont need a lecture. I made the point of that it is an option for some riders that dont want to (or cant) spend the large sum at once.

    We are trying to prevent people from spending more money in the long run by supporting the local bike shops and not low quality china built department store bikes

    I've also noticed a common habit here on this forum, where members here automatically "talk down" to anyone who owns/rides/ or even mentions less expensive bikes. Stop that ASAP!

    all depends on how one reads the big bad letters on the computer screen that get taken out of context as the letters don't show the authors emotions. most is constructive criticism. You are trying to help people and we are trying to protect people from making poor decisions

    Not for me in particular, but rather for the newer riders out there who'll get the message that unless you spend $$$$$$ we dont want you around. That'll push people away from the sport.

    me in particular ( if you hunt for some of my posts) I recommend to those interested in the sport to buy cheap to see if they like the sport. it's money better spent to buy a cheap bike to find out one doesn't like the sport verses spending thousands of dollars on a paperweight. if they do like it to then upgrade to a bike more suited to ones riding style

    I've heard that dozens of times from riders who have joined here looking for info and or tech support, only to be ridiculed. They then get discouraged and go elsewhere. Even a rider of substantial experience such as myself is being hassled for even the mention that a cheaper bike could be an option for some riders.

    dozens of riders? and where are those posts at?

    I never stated the Blackcomb would be on the same level as a much more expensive bike, but that it can be made into a "decent" bike without costing a ton. Browsing sales on jensonusa, pricepoint, CBO, wheel world, bluesky cycling and such can get you good parts at great deals, and allow you on a budget to make the Blackcomb into a better ride. I did this personally when I owned a Blackcomb as a extra bike and know that you can do it for around $600-$700 if you find sales and have patience.

    here's where we have issues again. It seams you are suggesting to buy a department store bike then to purchase/ upgrade the components with parts purchased on line(?). which in it's self (because not everyone like you and I can work on our own bikes) has to bring it to a bike shop and spend more money for those parts to be installed VERSES buying a bike that already has those parts on the bike. Walmart and Kmart sure as heck won't do it nor do I trust them to even assemble one. Bicycles have break in periods ( as i'm sure you know) and require periodic maintenance. maintenance that isn't offered at walmart and again most people don't know how to do or comfortable doing. Most LBS offer this as a perk for 6months to a year. Again! I'm not saying don't buy from a deportment store! I and others are trying to say is by spending a little bit more you save more in the long run.
    '11 Jedi
    '01 Straight8
    '01Rocket88< ran over it.. always do a full walk around!
    '00 Homegrown

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    Holy cow, you guys will argue about ANYTHING.

    From Mountain Bike Action: "Mountain Cycle ... mountain bike builder who revolutionized the stodgy stick figure hard tail with its monocoque San Andrea dual suspension chassis- and led the way with the first full functional hydrolic disk brakes and inverted suspension forks ...."
    MOUNTAIN CYCLE BOUGHT BY KINESIS--DEC 21 | News | mountain-bike-action

    From Bike Magazine: One of the first big names in full suspension was Mountain Cycle. Itís hard to convey just how radical this company was back in 1991, when their San Andreas model debuted. ... It was the first monocoque mountain bike frame available to the general public and it sported squish front and rear (with an inverted fork, to boot). Oh, and at a time when V-Brakes were still in their infancy, the Mountain Cycle came equipped with hydraulic disc brakes.
    Tested: Mountain Cycle Battery

    The San Andreas obviously influenced the Blackcomb design because it was the first monocoque frame and the Blackcomb is a monocoque frame - as was the Intense M-1, which came out almost a decade after the San Andreas.
    So? I have my own opinion, just like you do. If you don't want anyone disagreeing with you then post on a blog and not a forum.

    Yes, Mountain Cycles were very eye catching, but they never really revolutionized DH like M1 did. In the history of DH the MC is a footnote. Personally I think it's because the rear suspension didn't work well enough, it didn't have enough travel, and the geometry was still too tight.

    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    Building up an inexpensive frame is not a cost effective way of getting a good performing bike.
    This is exactly what I've been saying.



    Quote Originally Posted by irishmongooserider View Post
    Look, I dont need a lecture. I made the point of that it is an option for some riders that dont want to (or cant) spend the large sum at once. I've also noticed a common habit here on this forum, where members here automatically "talk down" to anyone who owns/rides/ or even mentions less expensive bikes. Stop that ASAP! Not for me in particular, but rather for the newer riders out there who'll get the message that unless you spend $$$$$$ we dont want you around. That'll push people away from the sport. I've heard that dozens of times from riders who have joined here looking for info and or tech support, only to be ridiculed. They then get discouraged and go elsewhere. Even a rider of substantial experience such as myself is being hassled for even the mention that a cheaper bike could be an option for some riders.
    "I don't need a lecture" says the man with the massive posts.

    You need to reread what's been written. No one said not to ride the bike, or that a cheap bike cannot be enjoyed. In fact, quite the opposite. What people are saying is not to upgrade it, but rather put the money toward a new bike. The wisdom of this has been proven again and again.

    Don't put words in our mouths just because we're not agreeing with you.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishmongooserider View Post
    I was already a top ten placing XC and DH rider at the state level
    Out of curiosity, which state, class, and year?

  7. #57
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    I say influenced, you say revolutionized - I say tomato, you say cucumber. It was the industry voices, the magazines I referenced, that made the claim that the San Andreas revolutionized mountain bike design.

    As for arguing and writing a blog, I made a comment that the Blackcomb frame was obviously influenced by a frame designed almost 25 years ago and you start arguing that the frame I referenced didn't have as much influence on frame design as some others.

    I say you guys will argue about anything because you can't take anything for what it is. What I find on this forum, a lot, is some people are happy with what they have until some azzhole tells them they shouldn't be happy with it. If someone asks, hey, I'm thinking about buying bike X for $250, then give your opinion. But if someone says, I've already bought bike X, say, cool, congratulations - let me know if you need any help!
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  8. #58
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    '11 Jedi
    '01 Straight8
    '01Rocket88< ran over it.. always do a full walk around!
    '00 Homegrown

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic View Post
    Out of curiosity, which state, class, and year?
    High school varsity mountain bike racing in Kentucky, in 2002/2003/2004. My riding earned me a full college scholarship in the end. Now, going on 27 I have fond memories of those racing years, but now I have a successful sales career, a wife and two daughters so I've chose not to race anymore since being good requires a good amount of training and I'd rather spend time with my family.
    Riding the Geese since '98! Check out my youtube videos at www.youtube.com/mongoosejake

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by shwinn8 View Post
    No comment ( mall crawlers, they make me laugh.. nothing but a glorified mini van. should carry the same not made for off road use sticker)

    Why do you keep push people to our youtube page?( probably because you're getting paid per views through youtube because they do that kind of thing) Is it too hard to type what you have on here.( just wanted to randomly type in side the parentheses)
    Now we have you telling me what vehicle I shouldn't drive.

    No, I do not make money off of youtube. Monetization is what it's called, and I don't even qualify, so if I did want to, I still couldn't. The link to YouTube is in my signature line, so it shows up no matter what. You don't have to click If you don't want to, but it's there if you're interested.

    I'm nearly done with this forum again, for the same reasons I left three years ago. Anytime that someone posts anything remotely supporting lower end bikes gets entangled into a long debate that's cumbersome to continue. I understand your guys viewpoint, and haven't argued against it, but rather stated a different viewpoint that the majority doesn't like.

    About the dozens of riders who've left this forum for the same reason, there's actually a whole forum started by individuals that left here... You guys pushed newer riders away with the talk of higher end or nothing. Saying that someone is riding a worthless bike, or one not worth fixing/upgrading (not that all on here did take that position, but many do) will drive people away. Other forums gain members, so good for them.
    Riding the Geese since '98! Check out my youtube videos at www.youtube.com/mongoosejake

  11. #61
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    Here's a guy who is passionate about a brand because he used to race the brand more than 15 years ago when the brand was still strong and legit in the competitive world. He makes some good points on his videos that the Mongoose, Pacific Cycles distributed, bikes are a good value at $300 compared to the low end of the big names like Trek that cost double. And I see is a bunch of bagging based on brand and retail sales outlets.

    You've got bad mechanic, who lists his two bikes as Schwinns (most likely really old frames) and Shwinn8, who lists his three bikes as really old frames, arguing that upgrading a heavy, outdated frame isn't cost effective.

    It's madness.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by irishmongooserider View Post
    I'm nearly done with this forum again, for the same reasons I left three years ago. Anytime that someone posts anything remotely supporting lower end bikes gets entangled into a long debate that's cumbersome to continue.
    It pretty much looks like you painted yourself into this corner. Your thread titles appear intentionally charged and you argue every single counter argument to the point of butt-hurt because some don't step over to your point-of-view. Why is it so difficult to simply promote what you like and leave it?

    Quote Originally Posted by irishmongooserider View Post
    About the dozens of riders who've left this forum for the same reason, there's actually a whole forum started by individuals that left here...
    bigboxbikes.com
    "I love the bike. It's my meditation. I think I'm bike-sexual." -Robin Williams

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malibu412 View Post
    It pretty much looks like you painted yourself into this corner. Your thread titles appear intentionally charged and you argue every single counter argument to the point of butt-hurt because some don't step over to your point-of-view. Why is it so difficult to simply promote what you like and leave it?



    bigboxbikes.com
    I may have done so, getting myself into this position by... Posting about and in support of a brand I've liked for a long time and had good luck and even racing success with. Sure I'm the type to maintain my position against all others, as long as I don't get carried away, or lose sight of the topic. I apologize if I'm actually guilty of any wrongdoing here.

    Yes, that is the forum I'm referring to. I'd already been falsely accused of pushing people to my YouTube channel so I didn't want to add fuel to the fire so to speak by "pushing" people to another forum. There are mid to higher end riders there as well as bigboxbikes, all are welcome if interested, but not because I said so, lol.

    In the three years of not being a member here, I've found nothing to have changed, only that the elitism and self righteousness regarding high end bikes has only increased. Not all members here have shown this attitude, but enough to be a hassle to anyone that has an open minded liking of all bikes.
    Riding the Geese since '98! Check out my youtube videos at www.youtube.com/mongoosejake

  14. #64
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    never mind.. at this point it's just to humorous to comment anymore
    '11 Jedi
    '01 Straight8
    '01Rocket88< ran over it.. always do a full walk around!
    '00 Homegrown

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    You've got bad mechanic, who lists his two bikes as Schwinns (most likely really old frames) and Shwinn8, who lists his three bikes as really old frames, arguing that upgrading a heavy, outdated frame isn't cost effective.
    There is a big difference between an old high end frame and and a newer low end frame.

  16. #66
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    So, if I buy $700 in parts and put them on a Blackcomb, it's different than putting $700 in parts on a 15 year old Schwinn?
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmac View Post
    So, if I buy $700 in parts and put them on a Blackcomb, it's different than putting $700 in parts on a 15 year old Schwinn?
    Absolutely. One is a high quality and high performance frame. The other one is a low quality and low performance frame. Do you really not see the difference or are you just trolling me now?

    I will say this, however. Unless a person has a very good reason to build up an old frame (even a Homegrown frame) they'll get more for their money buying a new bike.

  18. #68
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    since you said 15 years old yes, a 15 year old Schwinn Straight 6 frame is built stronger and able to be put through a hell of a lot more , the 15 year old Carbon fiber Homegrown All mountains are lighter and
    '11 Jedi
    '01 Straight8
    '01Rocket88< ran over it.. always do a full walk around!
    '00 Homegrown

  19. #69
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    ^^^ and what?
    "I love the bike. It's my meditation. I think I'm bike-sexual." -Robin Williams

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic View Post
    Unless a person has a very good reason to build up an old frame (even a Homegrown frame) they'll get more for their money buying a new bike.
    ^This
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malibu412 View Post
    ^^^ and what?
    aaannnndddd.... i just forgot to delete that was all
    '11 Jedi
    '01 Straight8
    '01Rocket88< ran over it.. always do a full walk around!
    '00 Homegrown

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by shwinn8 View Post
    never mind.. at this point it's just to humorous to comment anymore
    So, why keep commenting?
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  23. #73
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    yup
    '11 Jedi
    '01 Straight8
    '01Rocket88< ran over it.. always do a full walk around!
    '00 Homegrown

  24. #74
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    This has to be one of the dumbest pissing matches.

  25. #75
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    Why is that?
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

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