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  1. #1
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    4Banger/Straight6 parts

    Still searching for the right frame but i wonder:

    -do both frames 4banger/straight6(yellow01) share the same exact rear??

    I mean if the carbon and alu arm have the same dimmensions and can be chaged among frames?

    -If so, does this also happen no matter the size? i mean straight6 sizes are 16-18-20 while 4bangers are 17-19-21.

  2. #2
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    To the best of my knowledge, yes, they share rear triangles. The chainstay length was the same no matter what frame size you have. Parts are interchangeable between "early" and "late" 4-Bangers as well - the swing arms with the pinch bolts work on the bikes that didn't have them originally. The rear dropouts are all the same functionally as well; the late 4B's and yellow Straight 6's have the black magnesium dropouts with 51mm IS disc attachments, while the earlier Bangers had bare aluminum ones with 22mm Hayes mounts on them.

  3. #3
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    What he said ^

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    Thanks, i prefer a straight6 but a banger will be ok too.

    So knowing that the rear part is interchangable I just got a frame with a broken main pivot, (i do not think it is reparable, take a look and leave opinions), that will provide extra parts for the rear arm if needed in the future when i get the right frame.

    2 pics with the broken main pivot, it seems that the owner broke it while tightening it too much, not while riding.




    So still in the hunt!!

  5. #5
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    I don't know that those frames had bolts to tighten on the frame at that area. My 2000 4-Banger frame is VERY different from my 99 Homegrown frame. The 2000 has no pinch bolts of any kind, anywhere on the frame. The Homegrown has two pinch bolts at each frame pivot, plus the pinch bolts on the swingarm. There were spacers that Schwinn made to put into the gap you see on the swingarm to prevent over-tightening from breaking the arm.

    Is the bike in these pictures yours, Lamparito? I've never seen one with the black rear lower swingarm, which I always wanted.

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    Yes, i bought it yesterday in Germany for about 70€ for spares. Not sure about the exact year of this frame yet, and had not noticed the difference in color of the lower swing arm.
    After reading here that all rear part are common i just bought it.

    Whay do you think about the crack: is it reparable? maybe cutting it off and welding a new specially produced CNC piece or something. If not i will ask the seller to ship only the rear part and trash the front.

  7. #7
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    That frame should be a 99 non-Homegrown frame, the only year that I know of with the black swingarm and aluminum rear dropouts.

    I can't say if you can fix the lower pivot or not, but I would get the frame just in case and continue to look for an expert welder for aluminum. It might be more trouble than it is worth to fix, but I'm not a welder and can't say for sure. What size frame are you looking for?

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    Is there any difference apart from the black color among 4bangers rear ends (not counting pitch bolts pivots or not)?? I thought all dropout were made in aluminium.
    I have been told today about this one that it's reparable in various ways by expert guys (do not know the price of the repair or if will be worth it as you say)

    I am looking for a straight6 18" or in case it's a 4 banger i still doubt about 17" or 19" (i think 19" thaks to your post froma few days ago to my question in this forum).

  9. #9
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    Yes, there are differences. As I outlined above, the 2000 and newer models had lighter dropouts that were painted black and had 51mm IS brake mounts; Schwinn chose to then put an adapter on them to allow the use of 22mm Hayes calipers. I have both kinds of bikes, and the later black dropouts are lighter than the earlier bare aluminum ones by a few grams. It's also a lot easier to mount a modern rear brake on them since they have the 51mm IS mounting tabs. Other than this, they are the same as far as functionality.



    Good to hear that the experts think your frame is repairable.

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    Ok, now i see
    I still do not know what to do, will let you know about the price of the repair.... if not it wil be a spare parts bike just in case

    By the way...just got a Manitou Dorado to match the straight6 i am going nuts

  11. #11
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    The black rear links are made of magnesium. (sorry i didn'r read more into the above post) The 6061 homegrown frames seem to be the most durable. Chris has the holy grail of 4-bangers -- Homegrown front triangle, newer rear with no pinch bolts and mag drop-outs and that trick fox float set-up. The Homegrown Sweetspots are indestructable (I've always liked the carbon too). Don't know too much about welding 7005 aluminum and if it needs heat treating or not. That area is under a-lot of stress and if it cracked once when it was one piece.... It may be worth a shot, though, to get you out on the trails and It seems good frames are becomming harder to find (especially because Chris keeps buying them up). I bought a parts frame of that year in black, and it was cracked all over (2 long cracks at the upper swing arm pivot welds and lower shock mounts). Wound up selling the rear seperately and now have the front triangle as a reminder of an e-bay buy gone bad. (did get some money back from the seller, and a welder did say he could heli-arc some of the cracks, but mine had pinch bolts on the front triange and they were cracked too (can't really weld those)
    Last edited by joemamad; 03-30-2009 at 05:44 PM.

  12. #12
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    Do the pre-2000 Bangers have pinch bolts on the frame, other than the ones on the chainstay? I seem to recall they do, but I can't prove it. I don't have pictures of those.

    And hey - I only buy the good frames I can find. I should have bought the 16" Straight 6 frame I saw a while ago before I lost my job. Oh well.

  13. #13
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    Today i searched among the 100+ mtb magazines from the old days i had in one closet and found an in depth review of a 99 banger!!!
    By the way it praises the frame but for its weight and the fact that the rear suspension is not 100% independent from braking and pedaling (i thought it was independent or as close as it could be)

    I am learnign a lot from you guys. One more question:
    can i find easily a 22mmHayes to IS adaptor so as to use another disc brake?

  14. #14
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    Lamparito, is there any way you can scan that article? I'd love to see it! As for the gripe about independent braking: The 4-Banger does not have a floating brake, so it isn't 100% independent. Now, I'm no pro rider, so I have never noticed any issues at all with my bike's braking abilities. But again, I'm an aggressive in-the-seat XC rider, so maybe people who ride harder notice this. I have no issues with mine at all, but then again I was coming off my Schwinn Sweetspot for 9 years before I got this bike...

    The 22-to-IS adapters are hard to find. However, I believe there is one on Ebay right now with a US seller, though they appear to ship internationally. Note that I *think* this is what you need - what I have on my bike is the opposite/mirror image of this piece, so I think this is exactly what you'd need. Hell, I'm tempted to buy it for myself.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=370181125295

    These are not common and difficult to find. In the last year, I've seen three total. And 22mm Hayes brakes are going for ridiculous money - there is one on Ebay right now with a buy-it-now of $169! Insane.
    Last edited by CTB; 03-30-2009 at 06:54 PM.

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    Sure, i can scan it, no problem... but is is written in Spanish let me know if you want it.

    the link is for a IS to 22mmhayes, just the opposite of what i look for. In principle i want to use hope brakes

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    Quote Originally Posted by lamparito
    Sure, i can scan it, no problem... but is is written in Spanish let me know if you want it.

    the link is for a IS to 22mmhayes, just the opposite of what i look for. In principle i want to use hope brakes
    tha buy it now hayes you talk about are new? both front&rear for that price?

    by the way i think you are right about the pinch bolts before 00 but i cannot tell for sume, my frame did not arive yet :-)
    Last edited by lamparito; 03-30-2009 at 07:32 PM.

  17. #17
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    The Black POS
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  18. #18
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    wow...
    the guys that told me that it is reparable told me about welding it in diferent ways, but it mainly consisted as far as i understadn it into welding a inner or outside cilinder of the broken piece after some CNC on it. Or building a complete new CNC piece directly soas to weldge it afterwards

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by lamparito
    Sure, i can scan it, no problem... but is is written in Spanish let me know if you want it.

    the link is for a IS to 22mmhayes, just the opposite of what i look for. In principle i want to use hope brakes
    Sure, I'd still like to see it. I don't know much Spanish at all, but it would still be interesting to see the article. Thanks!

    The item in the link is the mirror image of what I have on my bike; what I have on my bike converts 51mm IS to 22 mm Hayes, as you see in the picture I posted above. So the ebay item appears to convert 22 mm Hayes ("parallel") to 51 mm IS, which would be what you need. I assume the Hope brakes use a modern 74 mm post mount or 51 mm IS mount. Compare the pictures and see what you think. As I said, I'm tempted to get this part so that I can adapt my other 4-Banger parts to modern brakes, as needed.

    Joe, that's some serious cracking there. Later today I'll take some pictures of my 2000 frame to show how there are no pinch bolts at all on it.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by lamparito
    tha buy it now hayes you talk about are new? both front&rear for that price?
    You don't need front and rear. The front will be whatever fork you decide to use - any modern fork has 51mm IS or 74mm post mounts on them (be careful of 1999-2000 Manitous, as many of them had 69mm post mount which is only adaptable by going with larger (180mm) rotors). So you only need one adapter for the rear of the bike.

    Here are some pics of my frame. I'm glad we had this thread - it turns out it is cracking at one of the welds.
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    Last edited by CTB; 03-31-2009 at 05:24 AM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB
    You don't need front and rear. The front will be whatever fork you decide to use - any modern fork has 51mm IS or 74mm post mounts on them (be careful of 1999-2000 Manitous, as many of them had 69mm post mount which is only adaptable by going with larger (180mm) rotors). So you only need one adapter for the rear of the bike.

    Here are some pics of my frame. I'm glad we had this thread - it turns out it is cracking at one of the welds.
    I do not see the crack but will also ask here if that kind of crack (different to mine) can be repaired too. I hope so...

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    This is waiting for the right frame... hope they will get along well :-)



  23. #23
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    That seems like a lot of fork for a 4-Banger. The one I bought had a 120mm Manitou Supernova on it, and that's really a heavy fork for just a 4" travel bike like the Banger. No reason why you can't use it, though! I'm just saying it is a very stout fork. What kind of brake attachment does that fork have?

    The cracks on my red frame are just starting right at the welds below the main pivot. My buddy has a TIG welder and we're going to try and fix it.

  24. #24
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    `Both of my red ones like yours, Chris, have cracks at the weld on one side where the upper pivot mount piece meets the curved tube. Both are/were 1/4" long at the bottum of the weld. These never got any bigger over the 2 years I had them both and I'm still riding the one. I removed the paint so I could monitor it. "First Class"
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  25. #25
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    Boy, does that picture look familiar!

    Good to know they didn't progress. I might still have my buddy throw some TIG action on it.

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    which year are your cracked frames?? mine looked like that area is modified and reinforced, so i guess it was produced later. It cracked in other place though...

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB
    That seems like a lot of fork for a 4-Banger. The one I bought had a 120mm Manitou Supernova on it, and that's really a heavy fork for just a 4" travel bike like the Banger. No reason why you can't use it, though! I'm just saying it is a very stout fork. What kind of brake attachment does that fork have?

    The cracks on my red frame are just starting right at the welds below the main pivot. My buddy has a TIG welder and we're going to try and fix it.

    The dorado sc is intended to partner the yellow straight6, if i find it about 6" front&rear, a bit on the heavy side for a heavy frame i know...
    I also think it would be too much for a 4banger but i liked it a lot and being mint and uncut i got it, not cheap, but an opportunity that does not happen everyday.

    What fork would you use in a 4 banger if you could choose?

  28. #28
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    I'm not sure of model years, but the frame i'm running now has got to be one of the latest versions by virtue of the mag drop-outs. Judging by decals, my black and your red may be like 1/2 years apart (late 1999? or early 2000?) because the share the same but yours it upgraded from the pinch bolts on the front triange which were carried over from the original Homegrown 4-bangers (1999), yet retain the pinch bolts on the chainstay. Mine and CTB's red ones seem to be about the same (next) generation because they share the same decal treatment on the front triangle and the carbon swingarm and lose the pinch bolts on the chainstay. My earlirer red one of the same design with the aluminum rear drop link said "4-Banger" on the carbon and had no pinchbolts (2000), My newer one with the mag drop-link has the "(4)" like CTB's (these may be the next 1/2 generation update). I'm not sure if the 4-bangers were made in 2001,but if they were these would be them. Of course the decals and color schemes may different for foreign markets too? As you can see by the literature we're finding it's confusing, but the Mag dropouts showed up last. I think Schwinn kept refining the features without regard to years

    I'm running a 2004 Marzocchi Marathon S coil, 120mm travel. I love this fork and the 120mm is not a problem geometry wise. It also has ETA which allows me to drop the fork for climbing yet allows 30mm of stiff travel. I rarely drop it during climbs though.

  29. #29
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    My red Banger is a 2000; there were no later Bangers than this that I know of. It wasn't in the 2001 catalog. Lamparito's looks like a 99.

    I did have to choose a fork for my 4-Banger - it's the 2008 Fox F100R you see on my bike. Running a 120 fork with 4" rear travel will give you fairly slack/slow geometry (less steep head angle), so it will be a better match if you find a Fox Vanilla R and trunnion like the 2001 Straight 6 had on it and get the higher BB height/more travel to match the front end.

    PS: Lamparito, if you scan that Spanish article, you can send it to my email, which is ctbtyper (at) yahoo (dot) com. Thanks!

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    I will try to scan it this afternoon or tomorrow and will send pdf's to you. If anyone else is interested let me know.

    If i have to look for a Fox vanilla R + trunnion so as to convert to 6" how do i know it will work on the banger?
    this is... are all trunnions for fox vanillaR compatible with the Banger?

  31. #31
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    The Banger and 2001 Straight 6 were the same thing, except for maybe the head angle, so what fits on one fits on the other. What you need to find is a Vanilla R *with* a trunnion, or a Rock Shox *with* a trunnion; Fox and Rock Shox didn't use the same thread pitch, so a Fox trunnion won't thread onto a Rock Shox, etc. There are several posts here at MTBR where people have converted their Bangers to 6" of travel by putting a Straight 6 or equivalent shock on the bike. You need a 2"-travel shock for that with a threaded body and the right trunnion - the trunnion has to be for a Straight 6 or 4-Banger specifically; I don't think it was a standard part or from another bike. They aren't easy to find these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB
    Sure, I'd still like to see it. I don't know much Spanish at all, but it would still be interesting to see the article. Thanks!

    The item in the link is the mirror image of what I have on my bike; what I have on my bike converts 51mm IS to 22 mm Hayes, as you see in the picture I posted above. So the ebay item appears to convert 22 mm Hayes ("parallel") to 51 mm IS, which would be what you need. I assume the Hope brakes use a modern 74 mm post mount or 51 mm IS mount. Compare the pictures and see what you think. As I said, I'm tempted to get this part so that I can adapt my other 4-Banger parts to modern brakes, as needed.

    Joe, that's some serious cracking there. Later today I'll take some pictures of my 2000 frame to show how there are no pinch bolts at all on it.
    More info about converting 22mm to IS from this forum:
    Trek 8000 Hayes 22mm Mount to IS
    It is a bit old but may be useful

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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB
    The Banger and 2001 Straight 6 were the same thing, except for maybe the head angle, so what fits on one fits on the other. What you need to find is a Vanilla R *with* a trunnion, or a Rock Shox *with* a trunnion; Fox and Rock Shox didn't use the same thread pitch, so a Fox trunnion won't thread onto a Rock Shox, etc. There are several posts here at MTBR where people have converted their Bangers to 6" of travel by putting a Straight 6 or equivalent shock on the bike. You need a 2"-travel shock for that with a threaded body and the right trunnion - the trunnion has to be for a Straight 6 or 4-Banger specifically; I don't think it was a standard part or from another bike. They aren't easy to find these days.
    So we can only find original Schwinn trunnions out there... looks like a pretty dificult task.
    The fox truunnion had to come from straight6 frames ande the rockshox from 4bangers... Now:
    - do all fox shocks models (2"-travel shock for that with a threaded body) will work with the original straight6 trunnion? if you know specific models apart form the Vanilla R that will be great
    -do all rockShox models (whatever travel with a threaded body) will work with the original 4banger trunnion? i understand the SID and deluxe models do and give you4" of travel but is there a rockshox model that can be used to convert from 4" into 6"??

  34. #34
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    SID shocks are air shocks, so you can't use them with a trunnion; to use a SID, you have to use a 4-Banger SID specifically, like the kind that Schwinn used on the 99 HG All Mountain Banger, or the 2000 Banger.

    I've only heard of people using Vanilla R Fox shocks for the Straight 6; I don't know if other Fox threaded shock bodies are the same diameter as these older Vanilla R's. Hopefully someone else can come to the rescue with more info here. I can't tell for sure which brand of shock is on your frame, but at least you'll have that trunnion and can then narrow your search to whatever brand of shock is on it. I think yours is a Rock Shox from the picture, but I can't say for sure.

    You'll find better info by searching this forum - I did a bunch of searches before I decided to make my special Fox shock on my own, which got me 4.6" of travel. There's a lot of info out there, but I don't recall ever seeing a Rock Shox that would give you 6" of travel.

    I've done the rear brake conversion from 22mm on my Sweetspot, so I read all those threads on converting over about a year ago. The solution I used on my Sweetspot won't work on a 4-Banger. I used an A2Z Components DM-UNI. It works, but it has its own problems. But, it worked, and that's all that mattered when I did it. That large picture of the black adapter with the Beyond Bikes link (which no longer works) is exactly what I referenced above in the Ebay link. I *believe* using the A2Z AD-PMR adapater will require 185mm rear rotors to be used instead of 160mm, but I'm not positive. The AD-PMR wouldn't work on my Sweetspot, so I never bought one to try.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lamparito
    -do all rockShox models (whatever travel with a threaded body) will work with the original 4banger trunnion? i understand the SID and deluxe models do and give you4" of travel but is there a rockshox model that can be used to convert from 4" into 6"??
    I found a 2" stroke RockShox body on ebay last fall and it fits fine (pics to follow). The challenge is finding a shock without the resevoir as it will prevent you from threading on the trunion. It's the only coil shock I have seen that will work, and was able to get it for $15. I think other 4B owners were distracted the same day by an auction for a Romic shock with a 4B trunion.

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    CTB my frame has a rockshox yes... i scanned the magazine today at work but only produced B&W files ¿¿?? will try again tomorrow

    Nice to know that there are useful rockshox baulz ( waiting for the pics ) but it also seems that they will be very hard to find

    I really do not know what is gonna be less probable to find in good condition:

    -a fox trunion
    -a rockshox tat gives 6" of travel and can be threaded
    -a Straight 6!!!

    I finally bought the origianl 22mmhayes rear brake and tioga aheadset from the seller too just in case.
    Last edited by lamparito; 04-01-2009 at 12:39 PM.

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    Oh, hell yes - if you have a chance to buy a 22mm Hayes for accepable money, you definitely did the right thing. Sure, it isn't modern, but I'm happy with mine, and it gets you on the bike sooner!

    Thanks for your effort on the scans, too.

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    I just sent you the scanned review in pdf's
    If anyone else wants it just ask.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lamparito
    Damn, did you get it?

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    crossing fingers...

  42. #42
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    Does anyone else want to cry about that price? I would have bought this for that kind of money! Wow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB
    Does anyone else want to cry about that price? I would have bought this for that kind of money! Wow.
    I would have bought it too and it's not my size!

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by lamparito
    crossing fingers...
    Does this mean you are working on the deal and got the bike? I would love to see someone here (an enthusiast) get the bike!

  45. #45
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    Used to run this monster, was a real nice shock. RockShox Pro Deluxe. Sorry, I sold it but it has been on at least 3 different bikes - It really gets around.
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    Nice, how much travel did you get? i assume you used the original rockshox trunnion with this one. did it have rebound control?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CTB
    Does this mean you are working on the deal and got the bike? I would love to see someone here (an enthusiast) get the bike!
    I am out of luck.

    The guy that got it intially just wanted the fork and i made an offer for the fram but after getting it he loves it and wants to keep it... i wonder why!!
    Oh well i will think that it was 16" and i need 18"

  48. #48
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    Bummer. If I see anything, I'll let you know.

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    That is an original trunion, the shock wasa about 8 1/2" eye to eye x 2" stroke. It had rebound and compression adjustment. Travel was the same as a straight 6. It performed great and had a lot of oil voulume for it's stroke, very plush. I just went with a bigger bike for freeride, downhill, and went with the SID air to convert back to my xc, trail riding version. I felt bad abusing the 4-banger while learning jumps and drops.

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    CTB
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    Joe, any idea what your trunnion-to-eye distance was on that? Or for that matter, does anyone know the trunnion-to-eye on the Straight 6?

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