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  1. #1
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    Has Greenbush been abandoned?

    The trail (especially loop 3) just seems to be getting worse and worse. The loose
    stones and rocks on up-slopes create a situation where less advanced riders
    tear up the trail even more as they grind to the top, and most of the down hill
    sections have so many rocks or have become so strewn with loose rock debris,
    that there just isn't many sections where you can gain speed and have fun.
    There must be some kind of ratio that defines a great trail:
    ?% steep climbs, ?% average climbs, %rocks, %rocky climbs ,%fast & flowy.
    Loop 3 needs some love and attention, because the ratio of rocks and rocky
    climbs have become way too high.

    I pay to use the trail, but I wonder if there is any work done out there?

  2. #2
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    The work that gets done out there is primarily volunteer. Look for the G.E.A.R.S facebook page for the next trail maintenance day. See you there.

  3. #3
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    Couldn't find that. Lots of Gear of War related Facebook pages though.

  4. #4
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    https://m.facebook.com/groups/10150116809105066

    This should get you there. I hope.

  5. #5
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    Thanks, I'll start watching. It doesn't look like there has been any work days
    in Greenbush since April.

  6. #6
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    I think part (or most) of the loose rock situation has to do with how dry it has been this summer. Those rocks used to get packed in, especially at Greenbush, which holds a lot of moisture when it does actually rain. That ain't happening this year, though, so it's more like a trail in AZ. I highly doubt it has been "abandoned" by volunteer work crews, it's just different conditions this year, and they aren't going to remove too much from what was traditionally the stable rock gardens. I'm guessing that a decent snowy winter and muddy spring will help restore the balance.

  7. #7
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    True, much of the work occurs during the spring. Summer and Fall are left for riding. More trail days will occur towards the end of the year when it cools off, especially after the leaves have fallen - they will get blown off the trail so long as there isn't snow. This will ensure that the trails dry as quickly as possible during the spring.
    There is maintenance that will occur during the summer, especially after bad weather. If there are fallen trees, they will be cleared by a certified chain saw operator. You cannot operate a chainsaw in a state park w/o this certification. Volunteers are alerted directly when this is needed since they are the only ones that can do it.
    Pedal Moraine is the club that hosts the Greenbush 12 hour race and does a lot of the maintenance. They are a good group to know and aside from GEARS, the saw operators and occasional volunteers like myself, they do a good job of getting things done.
    I do agree with you that the uphills are an issue for most folks. I don't have a problem with them too much myself, but have seen how it is progressively getting worse and worse. They definitely do require attention. Lately however, the focus was some other problem sections as well as putting in the 4-3 connector so we don't have 2-way traffic. That section needs some TLC as well.
    Stay tuned. I can't say that it will get fixed right away, but I am sure it's on the list and once the racing season is over (most of the volunteers are racers and do both wors and wems which eats up a lot of time and leaves precious few weekends during the summer) I am sure that there will be an opportunity to have a couple solid trail days with a good group of volunteers.
    Until then, run your tires at as low of a PSI as possible w/o risking pinch flats.

  8. #8
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    And check out New Fane. Short but great trail system. Very well conditioned and maintained by the same great folks.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jparman View Post
    And check out New Fane. Short but great trail system. Very well conditioned and maintained by the same great folks.
    +1 on New Fane. Rode there last weekendvfor first time this summer. Forgot how fun it can be.
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  10. #10
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    +1 on the dry conditions

    Just a bit of rain can turn a loose trail firm. Don't give up on the trail, to make the climb try to pedal is circles, don't pump your legs, use a low gear high cadence.

  11. #11
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    Yes, I have ridden New Fane a number of times, and enjoy it a lot.
    I like to think of it as "Greenbush light". It has a similar terrain and feel, but
    less rocks, and they are more stable, which allows more speed on down hill sections.

    The only problem for me is that it's twice the drive to get there. To ride there
    on a regular basis is a little difficult

  12. #12
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    Yea greenbush is still fun, but I don't remember it being this rough previous years. Will work need to be put into it to fix it up, or will some rain and riding fix it, like it seems to be suggested?

    If trailwork is needed, I wouldn't mind pitching in. What kind of work would be done?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmdishwash View Post
    I think part (or most) of the loose rock situation has to do with how dry it has been this summer. Those rocks used to get packed in, especially at Greenbush, which holds a lot of moisture when it does actually rain. That ain't happening this year, though, so it's more like a trail in AZ. I highly doubt it has been "abandoned" by volunteer work crews, it's just different conditions this year, and they aren't going to remove too much from what was traditionally the stable rock gardens. I'm guessing that a decent snowy winter and muddy spring will help restore the balance.
    This is exactly the situation that is occuring at Greenbush this year. That's what makes Greenbush so unique. Conditions are constantly changing throughout the year. It's never bad it's just different. Polish up your skills as we won't be dummying down the trail. If you ride out west you'll find these changing conditions throughout one single ride.

    Keep in mind that Greenbush was created from the glaciers of the ice age. Essentially it's a giant mound of gravel. You could dig rocks until the end of time. I live in the Kettles and every spring I have to do a walk around my yard before I mow it because new rocks have appeared and up earthed. If I don't spot them my blades are toast. Welcome to the Kettles.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DekerfTeamST View Post
    Polish up your skills as we won't be dummying down the trail.
    So basically, there is no point in showing up for a trail building, because the trail is exactly the way you want it?
    New Fane has rocks, but it's still fun.
    John Muir has plenty of rocks, but it's still fun.
    Greenbush(loop 3) has become something different from when I first started going there.

  15. #15
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    Well stig, I've been there a few times this year and I'd have to say it's still rideable. If it's rideable, and the community doesn't think it's in danger of being destroyed, then I don't think there's much to be concerned about. I know what you mean about the condition of it, but if no one that has the know-how of trailbuilding is concerned for fixing it up, then I won't be concerned either.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by not TheStig View Post
    Yes, I have ridden New Fane a number of times, and enjoy it a lot.
    I like to think of it as "Greenbush light". It has a similar terrain and feel, but
    less rocks, and they are more stable, which allows more speed on down hill sections.

    The only problem for me is that it's twice the drive to get there. To ride there
    on a regular basis is a little difficult
    Funny. Exact opposite for me. Muir or New Fane same distance for me. Greenbush far far away. And I think from a fitness/ stamina perspective New Fane may offer more challenge than Muir. Slightly steeper, looser, rockier climbs.
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  17. #17
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    I was out at Greenbush Saturday morning. The rains have certainly helped firm up the track. Now the problem was wet sand on glacier rocks = dicey corners. I'm sure it's perfect today given 2 days to dry.

    I love Greenbush and it's changing dynamic. Still my favorite place to be!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by not TheStig View Post
    So basically, there is no point in showing up for a trail building, because the trail is exactly the way you want it?
    Greenbush(loop 3) has become something different from when I first started going there.
    I guess I'm not understanding what you're asking for. The trail doesn't require any maintanance or repairs and it's remained sustainable due to the proper design of it. Just because the soil has gotten loose due to the dry conditions or rocks have came dislodged or more rocks have become exposed doesn't mean there's a problem with the trail.

    The message that I'm getting from you is that due to the current conditions the trail has become more difficult and therefore less fun. Don't you think it makes more sense to adjust your riding style to the current conditions then to go try to change the trail? What is your proposed solution? Do you think we should go pick rocks, maybe water the trail to firm it up, haul in some dirt to fill in between rocks? For what its worth I rode the trail a week ago Friday in the dark with lights and had no issues and didn't find it any less fun just different.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DekerfTeamST View Post
    The message that I'm getting from you is that due to the current conditions the trail has become more difficult and therefore less fun. Don't you think it makes more sense to adjust your riding style to the current conditions then to go try to change the trail?
    I'd say that you pretty much summed up my concerns. I'm just out there to have fun,
    hill climbing is a means to an end, not the fun part. The loose rocks everywhere certainly
    make it more challenging, but I prefer not to give up the speed and adrenaline rush.

    Apparently I am the minority though, and that's ok.

  20. #20
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    I was out there today and the trails are near perfect IMO.

  21. #21
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    Is trail hardening or armoring something that is done?

  22. #22
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    Trail hardening or armoring is not needed in greenbush.

  23. #23
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    Trails were awesome today.

  24. #24
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    WOW. Some mtbing folks should take a trip out west and experience uphills and rocks. I highly recommend Monarch Crest out of Salida Colorado, South Boundary out of Taos New Mexico, or Porcupine Rim out of Moab Utah. Greenbush is always fantastic regardless of natural changes and challenges. If you like them flowing check out Copper Harbor in the UP or the "new" Seeley Pass trail north of County OO in Seeley Wis now beinf finished to connect to the Ojibwe trail at Mt. Telemark, but that has rocks too.

  25. #25
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    Yes, I've been to Copper Harbor, and admittedly I was probably spoiled on some
    of the fast, flowy trails. But there are some older trails that certainly have plenty of rocks.
    You can't get to "Stairway To Heaven" without going through some rocky sections.

    I hadn't seen that Seeley Pass trail, but I was just on the Namakagon trail and
    Hatchery Creek Trail last month on a very hot day. Both were enjoyable, but
    it would probably have been a better day for that Seeley trail. I just didn't see it
    when I was searching around the CAMBA site(so many trails.)

    Funny you should say it, but I had just started thinking about maybe planning something
    out west, in the Doņa Ana Mountains, since I plan to be near Las Cruces next year.
    Perhaps I'll hate it.

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