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  1. #1
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    Anyone else disappointed in Vultures Knob?

    Its still one of my favorite trails, but I was thinking about how good it was 5-6 years ago and how bad it has gotten. First they closed the killbuck section a few years back. Then most of the Harder wooden features got removed. Now some of the bridges have major damage to them and what is left of the wooded features are falling down and in very poor shape. A trail that used to the the best trail in Ohio is quickly becoming not worth the drive. Pretty disappointing.
    Last edited by mullen119; 07-24-2012 at 05:38 PM.

  2. #2
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    Hmmm...I've been pretty happy with the trails out there and definitely enjoy the new DH course. I guess I'm more into the XC riding though and don't really care or pay attention to the wooden features as much. It seems they've really spent their time the last 2 years working on the DH trail and cutting in new XC trails. Hopefully now that they've got those pretty much wrapped up we can see some new man made features added next spring!

    What trail do you prefer now over The Knob?

  3. #3
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    im new to mtb so i never got to experience the "old" vk... but my main riding buddy raced there back in the day, and his only b!tch is that killbuck is out of the picture. (the landowners sold, and the new landowners werent cool with mtbers on the property- had nothing at all to do with vk/331.)

    there is regular maintenance that goes on there, and like amac said they have been working on the dh line. there are still a lot of wooden features there, although they are off the "beaten path" so to speak, with some of the newer reroutes. ive posted pics of some of the damage in the omba forums, and have told the guys from 331 firsthand about damage as well. they have an awful lot on their plate, and do the best they can to keep it up. if i didnt live over an hour away i would love to go to regular trailwork there and help them out, because they have helped me immensely in getting and keeping my bike ready to roll. i owe em a little something in return.

    dunno how far you have to drive to get there, but i love vk so much i made the trip the weekend after the 4th to go ride it in 100+ heat- and i was the only nutjob out there. the only trail in the area that compares is gorgeside and quarry, at west branch.
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  4. #4
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    It used to be 12 miles rather then 6.5. So that's a big disappointment its self. One of the bridges has two huge holes in it that make it completely unsafe to ride. The teeter totter broke while I was on it last weekend.

    I don't know, its just different now. The dh runs are fun, but there is very little maintance done to the trail over the last few years and when something breaks, they just close that part of the trail rather then fix it. Two fun sections have been closed and re routed in the last year alone. Its still a great trail, but it's seems to be going downhill faster then they can rebuild it. The trail itself is still fun though.

  5. #5
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    well, i talk to the 331 guys regularly, and what theyve told me is that the closed sections (which happen to be the more technical) are not being as diligently looked after in favor of making the trail more rideable for less experienced riders. they dont want noobs such as myself going out there and getting in too deep, so to speak. they want to see more riders out there, including less experienced riders, so the focus is on the intermediate stuff and not so much on the expert stuff. now these guys are all expert riders, so its not like they dont want a killer place to ride themselves, but they are looking at the bigger picture. plus, they have a pretty full race schedule this year, so their time is limited.

    if you want to talk to them yourself, PM me and ill let ya know how to get in touch with them. they are really cool, down-to-earth guys, and im sure would have no problem explaining their take on it for you. i know that doesnt change the fact that the knob has changed, but maybe it'll help understand their logic and their overall plan. and im sure they wouldnt mind another volunteer to help out
    If you arent bleeding, you arent riding hard enough.
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  6. #6
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    Mullen,

    Just some insight for you...

    The Knob is one of the few privately owned mtb trails in the country that is open for free to all recreational users. It is paid for through the small profits 331 makes on it's races and any donations cheerfully given by open riders, which unfortunate, are small.

    5-6 years ago, the "golden" time you remember, the trails were in horrible disrepair and we were in danger of losing the property to developement. Local activism was almost non existant, with only a handfull of folks willing to participate. In an attempt to keep the property open, 331 was incorporated, the property secured (minus the Killbuck section...would not sell), and improvements began.

    To maximize the interest for all cyclists, we have chosen to reroute many sections you remember as fun to accommodate the placement and expansion of the downhill course, a growing demand from our users, adding diversity and expanding the user base.

    As for bridges...I can't fathom what you speak of. I personally have replaced the rotten bridges in the powerline, over and under, snake, and the suspension bridge in the last two years with pressure treated decks and telephone pole stringers that far exceed the original work. The damage that is noted on the small transition bridges by yourself and Big Terry was replaced within two days of notification. In addition, four downed trees were removed the day after the wind storm came through...pretty responsive I'd say for an all volunteer effort. Unfortunately, the pine park section with the teeter totters was an area that wan not devoloped or sanctioned by 331, not utilized during races, and will not be maintained by our group. If it is a feature you enjoy, please feel free to contact us with some developent plans and we'll see if together we can make it a ridable option.

    Over two hundred hours of trail maintenance are logged each season by volunteers,and a minimum of 12 hours a week go into mowing and trimming to keep the vegitation at bay. I am perplexed that you believe the quality of the trail is poor????

    Our small group struggle to pay the mortgage, maintain, and keep the trail open. We would welcome any assistance you would like to provide, as only together can we be successful in securing future access. With so many of our established areas slowing being closed or limited in access (re...MOHO Wilderness, Beans, Mickeys, etc...) through the years, only a consolidated effort will keep us a destination that people desire to stop by and ride.

    cheers,

    rody
    As requested by the MTBR gods, I am the voice of Groovy Cycleworks, check it out... http://www.groovycycleworks.com

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rody View Post
    Mullen,

    Just some insight for you...

    The Knob is one of the few privately owned mtb trails in the country that is open for free to all recreational users. It is paid for through the small profits 331 makes on it's races and any donations cheerfully given by open riders, which unfortunate, are small.

    5-6 years ago, the "golden" time you remember, the trails were in horrible disrepair and we were in danger of losing the property to developement. Local activism was almost non existant, with only a handfull of folks willing to participate. In an attempt to keep the property open, 331 was incorporated, the property secured (minus the Killbuck section...would not sell), and improvements began.

    To maximize the interest for all cyclists, we have chosen to reroute many sections you remember as fun to accommodate the placement and expansion of the downhill course, a growing demand from our users, adding diversity and expanding the user base.

    As for bridges...I can't fathom what you speak of. I personally have replaced the rotten bridges in the powerline, over and under, snake, and the suspension bridge in the last two years with pressure treated decks and telephone pole stringers that far exceed the original work. The damage that is noted on the small transition bridges by yourself and Big Terry was replaced within two days of notification. In addition, four downed trees were removed the day after the wind storm came through...pretty responsive I'd say for an all volunteer effort. Unfortunately, the pine park section with the teeter totters was an area that wan not devoloped or sanctioned by 331, not utilized during races, and will not be maintained by our group. If it is a feature you enjoy, please feel free to contact us with some developent plans and we'll see if together we can make it a ridable option.

    Over two hundred hours of trail maintenance are logged each season by volunteers,and a minimum of 12 hours a week go into mowing and trimming to keep the vegitation at bay. I am perplexed that you believe the quality of the trail is poor????

    Our small group struggle to pay the mortgage, maintain, and keep the trail open. We would welcome any assistance you would like to provide, as only together can we be successful in securing future access. With so many of our established areas slowing being closed or limited in access (re...MOHO Wilderness, Beans, Mickeys, etc...) through the years, only a consolidated effort will keep us a destination that people desire to stop by and ride.

    cheers,

    rody


    The bridge right before the Junk Hill climb has two huge holes in it that make it almost unridable. The teeter totter towards the end broke when I was riding it as well (when it tipped the board that is suppose to catch the logs you ride out on broke)

    I can appreciate all the work that is put into the trail itself. (the actual trail itself is much better then it used to be.) The downhill trail is fun for sure( I ride it all the time). I think you understand my point and I now much better understand the situation.

    I would be willing to donate money and some time, to help rebuild some of the wood features that made vultures knob so unique. Just let me know how.

  8. #8
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    Rody, I sent you a PM. I want to donate time and money to rebuild some of the wooden features and build new ones.

  9. #9
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    Ok, so I emailed 331 racing, sent Rody a PM, and left a message on 331 racings website. Apparently, No one at Vultures Knob wants a huge donation of treated lumber, or a couple people to donate time towards trail maintenance.


    Like I said, The trail is going down hill.(apparently because they dont want large donations) I will still continue to drop a twenty in the container every time I ride there, but that is becoming less and less often.

  10. #10
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    If you dont know, Rody is a custom frame builder, and not an internet fiend like so many of us are. If you contact Jason at edge outdoors I am quite sure he will be able to take care of that lumber and whatever loot you might want to donate as well. he is a little more connected, shall we say?

    edgeoutdoorsstore.com, or look up edge outdoors on fb.
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  11. #11
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    Mullen,

    Sent you a pm a few hours ago...as Terry stated, I do not allocate a lot of time to forum viewing.

    Kevin and I discussed your desire on Monday in a meeting with our regional IMBA rep and would appreciate a proposal from you of what development you would like to see so that we can consider working it into the short term planning.

    Please utilize a little patience and understanding in that we all sacrifice what little free time we have available to contribute to access for all to enjoy...disparaging comments on forums do nothing to advance our opportunities.

    Again, thanks for your willingness to stand up and contribute through both time and monetary means. We'd be much further ahead if more were willing to stand behind their words with action as you are doing.

    cheers,

    rody
    As requested by the MTBR gods, I am the voice of Groovy Cycleworks, check it out... http://www.groovycycleworks.com

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rody View Post
    Mullen,

    Sent you a pm a few hours ago...as Terry stated, I do not allocate a lot of time to forum viewing.

    Kevin and I discussed your desire on Monday in a meeting with our regional IMBA rep and would appreciate a proposal from you of what development you would like to see so that we can consider working it into the short term planning.

    Please utilize a little patience and understanding in that we all sacrifice what little free time we have available to contribute to access for all to enjoy...disparaging comments on forums do nothing to advance our opportunities.

    Again, thanks for your willingness to stand up and contribute through both time and monetary means. We'd be much further ahead if more were willing to stand behind their words with action as you are doing.

    cheers,

    rody
    I would love to have a meeting and come up with some sort of plan. Short term wise, I would love to donate some time and a little money to rebuild and repair some of the bridges that have seen better days, as well as some repairs to "the cradle". My wife and I have a vacation to Hawaii in 6 weeks, so we dont have a ton of money to donate right this second(although I am still willing to donate some right now to repair some of the bridges for the rest of this year). In early spring, I would really like to donate more and have an awesome trail ready for all of 2013 riding season.

    I will email Kevin as requested in your PM.

    Thanks

  13. #13
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    You can donate right on the 331 site....i been ridIng there since the day it opened....lots of changes thru the years...its only because them fine folks saved the place and left it open that we can still enjoy it. I wish it was about 100% more technical but it is what it is and i need somewhere to ride that has a little challange when i cant get to the wilderness(always been the best...still the best in northern ohio)....everythi˝g else in northern ohio is built for brand new riders...the trails are so easy most new riders will never learn the skills they need to go truely mountain biking (but dont worry, you will be able to flow)...i have about 7 years worth of helmet cam from the knob (and all the other places near our state)...it's neat to seee how it was thru the years....those guys at 331 deserve something from the mtb community for what they are doing, anybody that can help should do so (yes, I've helped keep that place going for a very long time)....this has been great reading...please...try to help....we need all we can get in ohio and the knob is a very unique and special place.
    I too hate that damaged bridge after the over/under before the hillclimb...gotta be careful on that one.

  14. #14
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    all that and I didnt even answer your question....

    I have been dissappointed with the knob and have talked with the owners several times about the issues I have...they listen and try their best.....but my main beef, the one thing that really gets me...is......im not there right now!

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    nobody on this one anymore....here's my peeve...I've been hitting the trails for a couple decads now...trying to get better every year. ALL the trails...even mohican wilderness and mohican 24 have gotten wayyyy to easy...not just cause I'm gettin better, but they are making everything too easy...mohican 24...all the big hills were rerouted so the climbs are easier..WHAT??...mohican wilderness was the same way ,but there was some nice additions when TGIF was rerouted a bit (nice rock sections!!)...the big hill on the last section was eased up big time. VK has been tamed every year....all the parks that have riding is all for beginner riders (if you think different, its cause your not building the skills you need to advance). Its really great that more riders are comming out, but where would you like those riders to be in a couple years? there's no long term goal...rays is the same way...gettin easier for the newer riders...why dont the mountain biking community at large have a long term goal...where are the new riders today going to ride when they get good at these easy trails?? they will just give up eventually cause ther challange goes away (or move or travle alot)...most trails arent far from a paved bike path in technical terms.....just one of my peeves that I've noticed through the years as the trails evolve from footpaths to flow trails. Even the divots from the roots and rocks that were removed are filled in and smoothed over....Hmmm

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by syklystt View Post
    nobody on this one anymore....here's my peeve...I've been hitting the trails for a couple decads now...trying to get better every year. ALL the trails...even mohican wilderness and mohican 24 have gotten wayyyy to easy...not just cause I'm gettin better, but they are making everything too easy...mohican 24...all the big hills were rerouted so the climbs are easier..WHAT??...mohican wilderness was the same way ,but there was some nice additions when TGIF was rerouted a bit (nice rock sections!!)...the big hill on the last section was eased up big time. VK has been tamed every year....all the parks that have riding is all for beginner riders (if you think different, its cause your not building the skills you need to advance). Its really great that more riders are comming out, but where would you like those riders to be in a couple years? there's no long term goal...rays is the same way...gettin easier for the newer riders...why dont the mountain biking community at large have a long term goal...where are the new riders today going to ride when they get good at these easy trails?? they will just give up eventually cause ther challange goes away (or move or travle alot)...most trails arent far from a paved bike path in technical terms.....just one of my peeves that I've noticed through the years as the trails evolve from footpaths to flow trails. Even the divots from the roots and rocks that were removed are filled in and smoothed over....Hmmm

    Agreed!

    I leave for Hawaii in 12 days, Once I get back, I want to start working on this. I can see having the trails dumbed down to help give beginners confidence, but I dont see the problem with having a trail split with a harder climb/decent as an option, or more obstacles off to the side of the trail that are optional. Findley has a few, but thats about it anymore.

    Vultures Knob still has a few options, but they are now starting to close leaving only the easy option.

    I now just travel to get my biking fix. I dont want to, but at this point its the only way.

  17. #17
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    Over and Under Open

    Spent 12 hours out at the Knob today...the Junk Hill bridge is replaced, the log crossing on the Under Valley has been re-configured and reinforced with a new rock base and upstream armoring, and the Under runout has new wash out protected rock edge to protect the trail. Some of the critical creek areas that were clogged have been dug out and water is flowing again. She's ready to rip...go enjoy it.
    As requested by the MTBR gods, I am the voice of Groovy Cycleworks, check it out... http://www.groovycycleworks.com

  18. #18
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    Many props to you good sir for taking time away from your business to do the hard work that everyone else gets to enjoy.

    Sent from my arse via the nugget train express.
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  19. #19
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    2nd that....THANKS!!!!!

  20. #20
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    I got a chance to get down to the knob about 6 weeks ago. I have always hit mohican if traveling that far, because it's more trail, and my wife is not a huge fan of technical riding(triathlete), well she had plans, and I decided to try the knob. I really enjoyed myself there. Trail was in great shape, and it was a blast. Thanks for all the hard work.

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