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  1. #1
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    mexican trail etiquette

    funny thing happened to me today, I was riding in el zapo (very popular here in puebla, lots of people riding every weekend) when i came upon "la mojonera" wich is a very tecnical climb that most people ride down (second time I rode it up) its a bit long too.
    anyways there where people watching me and a bud climbing up and I was about 20 to 30 meters to the top when a group of 5 or 6 riders started coming down (even though they saw me and was just about to get to the top) its kind of a double track (two single tracks one next to the other that mix and match and cross each other at places) so I said "chingen a su madre no me quito" they started off on my track but i forced most of them to the other track (wich has rougher lines). one arsehole however had no intention on taking the other track and stopped right infront of me, forcing me to do a 3 second track stand (wich was pretty cool btw) while on me way up until he got the f#ck out of the way, we did hit our handlebars however and I just churned on the pedals a bit more till I was ontop.
    It got me very pissed, the sons of bitc%es couldnt wait a minute or two longer?? (or even less)
    anyways, I had to vent somewhere... hows riding in chiluca (wich is where I mostly read u guys ride) or any other places in mexico, have u come upon idiots like the ones i did?

  2. #2
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by triphop
    It got me very pissed, the sons of bitc%es couldnt wait a minute or two longer?? (or even less)
    anyways, I had to vent somewhere... hows riding in chiluca (wich is where I mostly read u guys ride) or any other places in mexico, have u come upon idiots like the ones i did?
    I don't have the huevos to make a trackstand in front of a 400cc motorcycle..... that's what riding in Chiluca is like.

    The only place where I've seen trail etiquette enforced and done is Ajusco. Other than that is much more left to people's will and/or common sense (if any).

    At Chiluca... it's left to people's will when finding mountainbikers on your way. Generally the rider going up has the ROW. But there are nasty climbs where you're more likely to stall anyway, so the rider going down has the ROW as it will go there faster and leaving the trail for the rider coming up.

    It's a nice topic for discussion.

    Don't sweat it much... there are arseholes everywhere. You have for example that guy who was wanting to pass Tigerdog and Ken before a especially nasty line and almost hits Tigerdog and HIS own girlfriend!!! What an arse!!
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  3. #3
    Mexican e-rider
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    You have Arseholes everywhere, as a rule though, I try not to insult riders when I see them comming down. Do you think that might have triggered their reaction?

    Typically if I am comming down I always slow down and give preference to hikers and cyclists comming up, if I have to I stop.

    Cheers,

    elmadaleno
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  4. #4
    Now with 3 more inches!
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    I'd agree with warp here except I feel that riders going up should always have the right of way (unless it is a downhill specific trail, in which case climbers shouldn't be on it). I could be wrong, but I think that's the IMBA approach to it. I've come across similar situations as triphop in the US. There are always some riders out there who aren't aware of trail etiquette, there are also a few bad apples who just don't care. There was a similar post on passion a while ago, and it sparked a heated debate. I think the best explanation of the climber right-of-way rule is that it is much harder for a climber to get going again if they have to stop.

    I also believe in dismounting and waiting for horses to pass.

    Oh yeah and there are always a few @ssclowns who decide to try and pass everyone on a tricky descent.

  5. #5
    Now with 3 more inches!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp2003
    But there are nasty climbs where you're more likely to stall anyway, so the rider going down has the ROW as it will go there faster and leaving the trail for the rider coming up.
    You should have seen the nasty climb Ken cleaned last week! If somebody is attempting it, I think we owe it to them to let them try, you never know they might make it.

  6. #6
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigerdog
    You should have seen the nasty climb Ken cleaned last week! If somebody is attempting it, I think we owe it to them to let them try, you never know they might make it.
    True... I just only wish we all would think the same. I don't mind spending a few seconds of my descent for riders going up sublimate themselves cleaning a tough climb (don't you love that feeling??)... I just wish everybody would think that way too.

    And of course, you also have the cyclist going so fast that a MX rider CAN'T pass him. Rocky_Rene was giving some riding lessons to a MX rider on an open fire road. He was just going too fast on the turns, that the MX just couldn't get into a sweet spot to pass.
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  7. #7
    Bike to the Bone...
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    What I feel is that actitude like that is more uncommon than the friendly encounters we have. Although encountering motorcyclist in the trail means moving away to let them pass, I think it's one of those things like giving right of way to climbers.

    I think that mostly a single bad encounter (like the one you had) has a way of working more on your mind that fifty more that went smoothly.

    I think that the reason why the climber has right of way is the one Tiger nailed, it's harder for the climber to restart than for the descender to continue.

    But, I think that the original insult may have played a part in the other rider. I understand that it might have been caused because of the effort in climbing and it was the first thought it came to mind.

  8. #8
    karmacoma
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmadaleno
    You have Arseholes everywhere, as a rule though, I try not to insult riders when I see them comming down. Do you think that might have triggered their reaction?


    elmadaleno
    oh I didnt say anything, that "chinguen a su madre" was me talking to myself inside my head

  9. #9
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    ok, sorry if i didnt explain myself better I didnt actually insult them, I didnt say anything I was puffing too hard at the time.
    it pissed me off at the time and had to vent... ive had a ton of other good experiences meeting fellow riders along the trail and most people are really nice and always say hello, wich is probably why this bad encounter got to me

    ohh and btwI too hate motorcycles! (huevones ponganse a pedalear a ver que tal les va jajajajaja)

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=1]Lalo [/QUOTE]
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    in salazar its so so so eroded by motorcycles you can even se the tires in the road ****ennn emils

    shouldve done a endo infront of bike
    Last edited by FxFvD; 02-27-2006 at 08:39 PM. Reason: endo
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  11. #11
    moaaar shimz
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    Again WTF, man... what the f* are you saying i dont understand..

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by triphop
    ohh and btwI too hate motorcycles! (huevones ponganse a pedalear a ver que tal les va jajajajaja)
    I just bought a Dirt bike and i have 10 times at fun than on my mountain bike. Its a small 250 Enduro bike.
    I would definetely quit Mtbiking for it, if it wasn´t so expensive to mantain and riding wasn´t so harsh on the body.
    Having being a mtbiker all my life i promise not to ride and to prevent other Mxers to ride Mtb specific singletracks in order to not destroy them.
    I dare you to try a technical dirt bike ride and to stand its punishment on your body... these babies aren´t as sweet as they seem to be.

    BTW rewarding the original post I hate people not respecting the trail etiquette of riders having right of way...
    ... but there are exceptions like the typical weekend warrior with a very heavy ride that cant make it and hogs up all the trail or dismounts in front of you eventough you try to move as far as possible on the trail from him.

    But rewarding the urge of wanting to pass someone before a dificult part of the trail i Always try to do it because i dont want to be at expense of the other rider´s abilities or speed at the downhill, jump, dropoff or whatever. I´ll try as hard to pass him before it to make that part more fun particullary more IN CONTROL fun, and specially in a SAFER way.
    I believe that when not in a race riders should align themselves within an ability sttus... first rider the best second rider the second best and so on.... and they should mantain their positions with the possible exception of a couple passes... fr example when riding in a large group if a better rider is behind me because he fell i pased him or whatever i let him go through something a lesser skilled rider has to fight for isntead.
    I believe this doesnt preassure anyone to ride over their skills. And doesnt slow or put a more skilled rider in jeopardy because the guy in front of you skided or fell or whatever.

    Phew.... I am almost ready to write a book on the topic.. sorry for the long boring post
    Lesson of the month: Don`t run of a cliff on your Mountain Bike. It`s quite painful.

  13. #13
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by pornstar
    I just bought a Dirt bike and i have 10 times at fun than on my mountain bike. Its a small 250 Enduro bike.
    I would definetely quit Mtbiking for it, if it wasn´t so expensive to mantain and riding wasn´t so harsh on the body.
    Having being a mtbiker all my life i promise not to ride and to prevent other Mxers to ride Mtb specific singletracks in order to not destroy them.
    I dare you to try a technical dirt bike ride and to stand its punishment on your body... these babies aren´t as sweet as they seem to be.
    A Turbo can beat you up the same for much less money... Talking from experience here.

    But thanks for keeping MX'ers away from singletrack. See.. there are parts where it's OK. But then there are parts where it's so steep that the motorbike will just spin the tires instead of climbing... and that hurts the trail.

    Believe me we've seen people with very little ability on the MX bike... Rocky_Rene was going fast (I was just a little ahead... hehe) on a fireroad and the MX biker could have passed easily if he had just a bit more skills, but he didn't.

    We've also seen people having trouble with the MX bike on places where the MTB can go easily... and I'm not talking specially hairy sections.

    Quote Originally Posted by pornstar
    But rewarding the urge of wanting to pass someone before a dificult part of the trail i Always try to do it because i dont want to be at expense of the other rider´s abilities or speed at the downhill, jump, dropoff or whatever. I´ll try as hard to pass him before it to make that part more fun particullary more IN CONTROL fun, and specially in a SAFER way.
    I believe that when not in a race riders should align themselves within an ability sttus... first rider the best second rider the second best and so on.... and they should mantain their positions with the possible exception of a couple passes... fr example when riding in a large group if a better rider is behind me because he fell i pased him or whatever i let him go through something a lesser skilled rider has to fight for isntead.
    I believe this doesnt preassure anyone to ride over their skills. And doesnt slow or put a more skilled rider in jeopardy because the guy in front of you skided or fell or whatever.

    Phew.... I am almost ready to write a book on the topic.. sorry for the long boring post
    What you say it's true.... but the case we mentioned about someone running over Tigerdog is not THAT situation.

    Just for you to know... Tigerdog is not Steve Peat, but he has some serious skills as a rider going both up and down. He's a guy with a fine technique and rides delicatessen.

    That said, the guy trying to pass him was NOT in control of his bike... he almost ran over both Tigerdog AND his own girlfriend in a section that carrying too much momentum doesn't help because it is a rock garden combined with small stairsteps where there is not a smooth transition and just at the end there is a switchback. You need momentum not to endo, but you can't go very fast. Actually getting air doesn't help in there.

    The kind of attitude of "I-am-holier-than-thou" is what makes me sick. If you see the riders in fornt are not skilled and may bail or something... you simply touch your brakes, stop and wait for the section to be clean of riders.

    Sorry, bro! But we need to be more corteous out there. There's enough hysteria going on the streets to create even more on the trails.
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  14. #14
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    About the Tigerdog experience... i wasn´t talkin about it cause i didnt see it so wghatever i would say wuld be a speculation.... what i was refering as was what some people see as rude... trying to pass them in a controlled but decided way "before" a gnarly part.
    I agree with you if you´re stuck there with someone slower being it a downhill, a rock garden or a very steep loose rocky uphill where you need to crank rather than spin you have to sit and slowly ride behind that guy or wait for him to finish band loose your momentum.... That´s why i feel important t pass before reaching the place... and by that i dont justify running over him or sending him of the route... i mean keeping it as clean as posible... As an example we were in vale de bravo and there was this awesome long slick rock downhill with plenty of jumps and such i had fallen and got caught up by lots of slower riders... slow enough to stop before bumps or rocks and in cases dismount of their rides... they were nice as to let me pass but there was one which tried so hard for me to not pass him that he was messing up and breaking the momentum for both of us... so i had to tae a wild run over a rooted jump and barely made it since that move it all became easier more fun and more in control for BOTH of us.
    Lesson of the month: Don`t run of a cliff on your Mountain Bike. It`s quite painful.

  15. #15
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    I do have a Faster than Thou attitude sometimes.
    Why?
    Because i have been ruiding for over 15 years and i know when someone is slower or faster than me.
    And i sure also have the Slower than Thou attitude, and let people whoare faster or more skilled riders up front or pass me by so that i climb or descend at my own skill level without pushing me so hard as to put myself at risk or mesiinhg other people rides
    Lesson of the month: Don`t run of a cliff on your Mountain Bike. It`s quite painful.

  16. #16
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by pornstar
    I do have a Faster than Thou attitude sometimes.
    Why?
    Because i have been ruiding for over 15 years and i know when someone is slower or faster than me.
    Me too (actually a bit more according to my mom, but I can't remember)... but that attitude just scares people off the trails. We don't need that.

    To each his own... but I'll keep my right to disagree on this one, this time.
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  17. #17
    [QUOTE=1]Lalo [/QUOTE]
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    Quote Originally Posted by pornstar
    I believe that when not in a race riders should align themselves within an ability sttus... first rider the best second rider the second best and so on.... and they should mantain their positions with the possible exception of a couple passes... fr example when riding in a large group if a better rider is behind me because he fell i pased him or whatever i let him go through something a lesser skilled rider has to fight for isntead.
    I believe this doesnt preassure anyone to ride over their skills. And doesnt slow or put a more skilled rider in jeopardy because the guy in front of you skided or fell or whatever.
    disagree if they are in line, the less skilled biker will have to maintain the rythm of the more skiled biker so it will be much more tiring for the last ones.

    the less fitt should goo in the first place so that all of the group can get up the hill in a good rythm and so that all the group gets not so tired to the top
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by FxFvD
    disagree if they are in line, the less skilled biker will have to maintain the rythm of the more skiled biker so it will be much more tiring for the last ones.

    the less fitt should goo in the first place so that all of the group can get up the hill in a good rythm and so that all the group gets not so tired to the top
    I dont mean to be rude but... thats the dumbest thing ive ever heard.
    I sometimes ride with a friend whos in the athletics team on my shcool (he runs 400mts, and is planning on running a triathlon) who basicaly never gets tired but hes not as skilled as me... i lead on tecnical and downhills and he leads on smooth so we both improve on what the other does best; what ur suggesting will halt on everyones performance.
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  19. #19
    Bike to the Bone...
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    Quote Originally Posted by pornstar
    ....
    I believe that when not in a race riders should align themselves within an ability sttus... first rider the best second rider the second best and so on.... and they should mantain their positions with the possible exception of a couple passes... fr example when riding in a large group if a better rider is behind me because he fell i pased him or whatever i let him go through something a lesser skilled rider has to fight for isntead.
    I believe this doesnt preassure anyone to ride over their skills. And doesnt slow or put a more skilled rider in jeopardy because the guy in front of you skided or fell or whatever.
    .....
    I think thats a smart way of going. Overall, the group speed is the slowest rider's pace. But when you have the slower guys up front, the slow one feels pressed to ride faster than what he feels safe, and the faster guys feels slowed and won't enjoy the ride.

    What inevitable happens, the faster guys have to wait a lot, and the slowest never rests. That's something I'm confortable with. Usually, I'm one of the slowest guys in a group, and I'm used to just keep on riding. Maybe the best position is to be on average, because you do get to rest some, but those rest stops aren't that loooong.

    Regarding rides, groups, I think that most bikes should try to be of similar levels. Actually, I think that Tiger, Warp & Co. are pretty patient with me, because I'm usually holding the group on climbs... and on descents. But when I think they're planning something pretty much above my head, I prefer to ride with someone else and everybody's happy.

    Now, because I'm riding with faster/more skilled riders than I, I think I'm pushing my limits (not completely overshooting them, just trying to do better). Finally, I think I'm a better rider than a year ago, or 6 months ago.

  20. #20
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by rzozaya1969
    Actually, I think that Tiger, Warp & Co. are pretty patient with me
    Thanks for the "flowers" as we say in spanish... but it's not about being patient. Is plain comradery. It doesn't matter if the slow one is being slow, because he/she bonked, is unfit, lacks skills, got a flat, feels sick, got a mech, broke his/her frame, fell and got hurt, etc. The fact is we're all in for the same ride.

    You never know if the slowest rider is in trouble or not. It's not patience, it's pure comradery and friendship.
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  21. #21
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    Im 24 and ride with friends my age and guys in their 30s who can kick my arse... however I sometimes ride with guys in their 40s. we have to rest and wait a lot more when I ride with these guys, but dont get me wrong I do enjoy those rides, we chat a lot more and the 40yr old guy I ride with is a real fun person to be around with. we dont drift apart too much but hit the climbs hard so we dont feel restricted.
    your right about the comradery and friendship, thats what mountain biking is all about at the end of the day isnt it??
    unless of course I ride solo... which is good when im out there riding pushing myself; but not as fun!
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  22. #22
    [QUOTE=1]Lalo [/QUOTE]
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    jhahahahaha chale

    guess you are right.... in some ponts
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  23. #23
    No way Jose
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    That's Right, we need to learn how shear our trails with the others, and also, be nice with your felows riders, for example, I ride all the time with mi club, and every year I do organice (non profit) La Transvolcano ride, and it's a great ride because people from various states of Mexico came to ride with us, they spend money for gas for their cars, cost of paid roads, Hotel Rooms, meals, and the cost for la transvolcano (Cabin and meals) and my club and myself pay just cabin and meals, so it is cheaper for us, just because we don't have to move to another state like my friends do, but my complain is with the majority of my club's felows, because they start and finish the ride as a race, Why? I don't know, those racers don't give a time to all group (specially our foreing felows) to take pictures, rest a little or stop to help to others, pulling the group all the time; and every reglamentary stop we do to compact all group again, those (racing) felows start to complain about the time to take to weit for the last raider, and when the last rider arrives, the "racers" starts yelling "Hey, finally all, ok let's go" no matter if he needs a rest, and all the people who came from others states want an easy ride, little time to take some pictures, watch our enviroment, enjoy our forest, an easy ride to know people with the same passion for biking on the way, and all of that you can't do it into a race... as I call this ride like "Alternative tourism" because they are tourists riding a bike, but my club's "racers" felows don't see it that way, and I can`t understend why they want to ride la transvolcano every year instead to ride on a real competition of MTB, they never race on a real race, but every year they compite with tourists??... how it's that possible??, (maybe it's more realistic and possible to win a race against Non racers), I know for sure, a lot of the people who came to ride with us get the wrong impression of my city's people, we seem arrogants and rudes to their eyes, and just for a stupid group of "RACERS GUYS" in a tourists ride, my felows raiders from those various states of our country said about transvolcano's organitation (made all by myself) as a great in all fields, but the ride became a rude ride for all, and just because few people who has the biggest alter ego of all the times.
    Last edited by REYEXbike; 04-02-2006 at 10:35 PM.

  24. #24
    [QUOTE=1]Lalo [/QUOTE]
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    Quote Originally Posted by REYEXbike
    That's Right, we need to learn how shear our trails with the others, and also, be nice with your felows riders, for example, I ride all the time with mi club, and every year I do organice (non profit) La Transvolcano ride, and it's a great ride because people from various states of Mexico came to ride with us, they spend money for gas for their cars, cost of paid roads, Hotel Rooms, meals, and the cost for la transvolcano (Cabin and meals) and my club and myself pay just cabin and meals, so it is cheaper for us, just because we don't have to move to another state like my friends do, but my complain is with the majority of my club's felows, because they start and finish the ride as a race, Why? I don't know, those racers don't give a time to all group (specially our foreing felows) to take pictures, rest a little or stop to help to others, pulling the group all the time; and every reglamentary stop we do to compact all group again, those (racing) felows start to complain about the time to take to weit for the last raider, and when the last rider arrives, the "racers" starts yelling "Hey, finally all, ok let's go" no matter if he needs a rest, and all the people who came from others states want an easy ride, little time to take some pictures, watch our enviroment, enjoy our forest, an easy ride to know people with the same passion for biking on the way, and all of that you can't do it into a race... as I call this ride like "Alternative tourism" because they are tourists riding a bike, but my club's "racers" felows don't see it that way, and I can`t understend why they want to ride la transvolcano every year instead to ride on a real competition of MTB, they never race on a real race, but every year they compite with tourists??... how it's that possible??, (maybe it's more realistic and possible to win a race against Non racers), I know for sure, a lot of the people who came to ride with us get the wrong impression of my city's people, we seem arrogants and rudes to their eyes, and just for a stupid group of "RACERS GUYS" in a tourists ride, my felows raiders from those various states of our country said about transvolcano's organitation (made all by myself) as a great in all fields, but the ride became a rude ride for all, and just because few people who has the biggest alter ego of all the times.

    thats what i was talking about
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