Thank's KrateKraig. I just started another thread on the subject on the "Washington" forum here on MTBR and posted our friend's from across the pond's group ride vid's... it get's views, but not allot of comments. Upside is a local shop (Our Surly/Salsa dealer of corse) is getting kinda hooked on the idea... not just because of winter riding op's, but winter business too! Intro bikes are quite affordable now, compared to what we paid a few years back. Hopefully that, and all the new tires & wheel's &etc. will spur some interest.