i agree, if someone spends the $$$ on a chris king front hub and can switch axle sizes, then this becomes a non issue.
Originally Posted by Monte
your other comment doesn't really make sense. QR and 20mm thru axle are both well established standards---a bazillion forks and hubs in those standards. so when i 'selected specific 20 mm hubs', as you said above, i was choosing a wheelset that i knew would work on nearly all my bikes, no matter what forks i ended up getting for them...now, and in the future.
you might be one of those people who buys a bike once every 10 years and never upgrades forks (or never swaps in a fork while another is getting factory service...or swapping in a wheel while the other front wheel is getting repaired).
people who never break parts, or never upgrade equipment, don't have to worry about compatibility or standardization. unfortunately i'm not in that category.
locked - time out
The DUC is a dream, if you dont like it call Ethan at Maverick, he'll tell you how to make it the most loved fork you owned
You couldnt buy mine from me and would need to tear it from my stiff fingers. Sold my Fox
'Nuther Pike virgin, eh?
Get a Pike.
Originally Posted by frorider
I had a DUC32 for a season....and sold it. Like others say, when it works, it's great. What made me sell it is the limited choices for stems (all are 15 deg rise). I also had issues with the seepy seals, resulting in oily disc brakes. Yes, I hear that they are fixed now...but I had mine rebuilt 3 times by Maverick (but to be fair, I did not ride it the 3rd time it was serviced). I did not mind the simple dampening mechanism at all...it worked. However, a heavier friend of mine also had one and complained he blew through the travel to easily. I much prefer the Maxel to the DUC32 mechanism....I often had break rub after remounting the wheel. The Maxel just works. period. So far the Pike 454 I got has been the most problem free fork I've ever used (and I'm picky). Hope this helps.
Get a crappy RST fork and put disc brakes on it, go down a slope at a fast speed and hit the brakes. Just see the left leg move back by about 1.5" and the right about 0.5". It can happen.
Originally Posted by kidwoo
DUC 32 Update
Thought I'd chime in now that I've played with my DUC for a while. In short, I would consider the DUC a "works" fork. Something that's really not quite ready for prime time, but if tended to properly can work very well. In stock for it really sucked, granted, I'm about 230lbs these days so it might have worked better for lighter riders, but it required several changes (non-permanent, things like oil weight, level, etc...) to get it riding right. It also required a call to Maverick to get the "real" tuning parameters. Even with the Enduro seals I'm still getting some oil leaking, but that is oil uses purely for lubrication not damping, so I just keep tabs on it, plus it's very little leakage.
Being a larger rider I really like the stiffness of the fork. The damping sucks, but with 6" of travel it doesn't take much to make it ride nice. My favorite riding is rough technical stuff, and this fork really shines there. It's not a "kick-the-tires-and-light-the-fires" type fork that a Fox or Zokes is, but if you're willing to put in a little work, it's really nice. The proprietary hub is a pain, limited choice of hubs, rack adaptors, limited stems, etc... but it's livable.
However: man if we could convince the guys at Push to work some magic on this fork it would probably end up an amazing ride. A very light stable platform would allow you to run it a little softer yet utilize all of the travel. 6" of Push valving and DUC lightness and stiffness would probably be a giant-killer of a fork.
PS: tuning tip I got from Maverick, that wasn't in the manual, is to run more oil (about 30cc more if I remember right) in the air chamber to make it more progressive, so you can run it a little softer yet not bottom out.
Well, what you're missing here is that you're assuming stiffness involves no deflection at all. Under load this is very rarely the case.
Originally Posted by kidwoo
If you imagine the fork assembly being made of rubber, you could see how the caliper's force being offset a few inches to one side would produce an asymmetric force which will result in a rotational displacement. Nothing is actually entirely stiff, and forces will transmit via any deflecting material, imagine the power in a coiled spring, large forces can transmit through the structure without requiring large displacements.
When a material deforms in an elastic manner (ie not permanently deformed), it stores the energy and will return it. Deflection produces oscillation and kick-back forces over time, and will try to return to its rest position or store the force. This is incredibly complicated in engineering, the general goal is to try to prevent vibration from #1 happening and #2 from transmitting (by isolation or suspension).
Most forks (even rigid forks) do flex quite a bit, as do frames. The easiest way to feel the flex is put the bike on tarmac and stand beside it, hold down the front brake and rock the bike back & forwards with both hands on the bars. The bike will budge forwards & backwards, and will oscillate like a pendulum. The pendulum type movement you will feel is mainly the forks flexing, it varies from about ±3mm on really super stiff forks to about ± 45mm on crappy forks.
That's just the bike sitting there without a person's weight on it being pushed, that's not pulling endos at 25mph.
When I took off my 3kg dual crown forks and replaced them with single-crown XC forks in search of lightness, I really noticed the increase in flex. Endos are now a scary and unpredictable experience, requiring quite a lot of re-calibration of the steering and a very balanced takeoff, with the dual crowns you just use too much front brake at speed and the back will come up gracefully without any twitchy squirrely stuff throwing you from side to side.
What you're missing is that metal is rubbery, rather than genuinely stiff. This is why it's strong, it will deflect rather than tearing its molecular structure apart and cracking or shattering. Brittle materials are rarely strong for their weight.
"It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth
You're turning black metallic.
After just over 1 year of 3x's a week of hard charging DH on varied terrain mostly rocky, brake bump strewn ST ( no big drops , no big air ) my DUC with blue seals yet basically stock on my ML8 is a 'bullet proof' shock
Even after many tweaks with air & tire psi , this shock needs a lot of personal tuning just to get it satisfactory.
Even after basic air play it still is just too 'harsh' at this time on the zillion little baby headed strait line rock gardens , ruts and ruff hard pan we jam thru at 30 to 40 mph.
It is so neg- plush that my brain jumps up and down so much at race pace speed due to vibration feed back even after starting with very low fork psi progressing to upper limit psi .
I have settled in the 80 +/- a few psi range in the shock, even then it is so harsh that I loose visual ability to see which 'blur' is the real line because I see a half dozen lines while my teeth snap and chatter from the jack hammer feedback lol .
I blast down the same trail on other brand new high end bikes Kona - Specialized brands with race setups and so I have a good baseline to compare forks on the same trails and so my DUC really need the personalized pro tweak tune - setup, and all the guys at the bikes shops wont touch it because it is so different they don't want to experiment on it
On the positive side the DUC is great when it has time to hit a large bump and recover without immediately hitting another ( that may tell You something ? ) without any Nathan magic set up it is still awesome on anything flowing and over *larger for me jumps ( *small for You experts lol ) and can hit a water bar at 35 full on ( I'm working on the bunny hops a speed ) , or under heavy braking at my 178lb weight.
The DUC it is light , snappy to work the trail and snatch it to move over to lines within lines intuitively and super solid with zero flex or twisting with my not so fancy Mavic 819 rim, and WTB Weirwolf 2.3's in the very low to mid 20's , I will take snake bites from mushy tires over rock gardens too make up for the stock shocks ultra stiff feed back to my brain any day.
Once the seals go THEN it will be time to see if Nathan can do a pro tune and see how this DUC will really shine.
Over all for a hard charging intermediate hamburger I give it 4 Chilli's of happy +
Hope this was helpful.
I believe Nathan is right when He said: ' Send it to me and I will modify it to be super plush and set it up just right for my ridding style - weight and ridding conditions.
I have not sent it off to Nathan only because the mountain here has had no snow here in southern Oregon so no 'off season' and so I just keep Her clean and she has been bomb proof