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  1. #1
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    Help - Fix idea's for ML8 fatal flaw ?

    I really love my ML8 but after 2 seasons getting much faster and more competent I notice my ML8 has a huge ride-ability flaw which comes out only when I'm descending f-a-s-t on double tract or on fat steep logging road corners the rear end - rear triangle will wag back and forth like a dog wagging it's tail !

    This is VERY pronounced, I switched bikes and had my expert racer buddy ride my bike as I trailed him and watched and the entire rear triangle will horizontally wag back and forth in fast shallow corners.

    Note: All of the rear bearing - pivots look like they are properly fitted / tightened , the spokes are in tune,the rear wheel - rim is true, the rear skewer is tight, the rear hub bearing are smooth and free and my new WTB Vigelante 2.3 rear is inflated in the high 20's sometimes 30psi

    My expert racer buddy who also builds bikes & tunes bikes for living He who by the way built the bike for me said ( I'm paraphrasing ) he said something to thee effect >
    " Your ML8 is old technology as it pertains to the rear end, the Maverick skewer - axle is to small in diameter,( He showed me a HUGE beefy factory axle & triangle-plus a BIG custom hub on His Ibis Rippley )

    Cont : He said " the drop out is old school too small and the rear triangle has to many pivot points that can cause the entire rear end to act out of sync and somewhat act against the turn forces moving separate from the frame in high speed turns inducing a high speed lateral instability ". bla bla bla in other words the ass end does the booty shake lol

    He then stood directly behind my ML8 grabbed the seat with both hands and then braced the rear wheel very tight with his knees and pulled side to side with his knees and said "Look see the entire rear end is not braced solid enough it moves back and forth and go do that to my Rippley and it wont move at all "


    Please know that this 'flaw' does NOT show up on 90% of the tight single track I ride on because there is no time in the sharp turns and rutted ST track to get it to 'wag'

    So have You guys experienced this ?

    What am I missing , pivot bearing tension ?

    Should I buy the best brand and model _______ rear wheel - spoke hub set up ?

    Do I need a bigger hub ?

    Do I weld up a brace on the drop out ?

    Do I cut off the ass end and TIG weld a more modern beefy rear end ?

    Of as my racer buddy said " Get another newer bike" ?

    This has me wanting to by a 29'er for the faster more open trails and leave the ML8 strictly for tight technical ST only were I never get past about 25 to 30mph

    Thanks for any advice.

  2. #2
    Schipperkes are cool.
    Reputation: banks's Avatar
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    Pssshhhtttt.....misinformation you received, quite a bit of it, I say.

    What rear skewer do you have in there? If it is Not a Shimano or a DT RWS, there could be a majority of the problem. All cheap & some $$ External Cam QRs use a piece of plastic as a bushing that get squeezed and becomes shorter allowing less force to clamp the rear wheel; WTB/American Classis/SRAM/Salsa/Bontrager. Using a Internal cam Shimano XT skewer, clamp it tight enough where the lever leaves a white mark in your palm. And make sure it's pointed back to 3-O'clock. If you tuck your QR lever against the dropout plate, the tubing, you do not get it tight enough. If you did, you need a large screwdriver to pry the sucker open.

    What hub?
    What rim & spokes?
    Have you tightened the MonoLink nuts to the pivot axle?
    Upper shock bolt tight?

    MonoLink Bearings and brass caps for it to bolt to the frame & rear end tangs. If the bearings are worn, they can be loose. If the brass caps are worn, same thing. The 6001 bearings are easy to get, make sure to get the Enduro MAX as they are designed for suspension.

    I'm 235+/- and have never experienced that situation since riding PPT/MonoLink Maverick frames since 2002.

    The best hub would be a 135mm DT with the 10mm RWS Thru-axle. 2.0mm straight gauge or at least 2-1.8-2mm butted spokes will do nicely.


    When comparing the clamping force between a 135mmx10mm DT RWS Thru-axle and a 142mmx12mm DT thru-axle on the newer bikes does not make a stiffer rear wheel and minimally makes a stiffer "rear end".
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Better suited to non-aggressive 125# gals named Russell.

  3. #3
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    THANKS for all the info. I will take a close look at what Your talking about and make the deeded changes.....cheers

  4. #4
    Schipperkes are cool.
    Reputation: banks's Avatar
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    Let us know what rear wheel you have including the QR; that will help a lot.

    Beers Up!
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesee
    Better suited to non-aggressive 125# gals named Russell.

  5. #5
    Take Chances
    Reputation: tymelero's Avatar
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    I agree with Banks. I have never felt that either. I blast my ML8 through some pretty gnarly terrain and it feels solid in the rear. I'm running a King rear hub with Fun bolts for extra stiffness. Works great. Good luck. Let us know what you find out.

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