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  1. #1
    Black Lion
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    Fells Riders.............watch your backs.

    Was out today on a small group ride. Coming down one of the backside trails from the Sheeps Fold area, when I encountered a very hostile irrational older woman with a small brown dog.

    Upon spotting her I did all the right things. Alerting her to my presence as to not spook her or her dog. As PC as I was it was to no avail as she tried to block my passage. All the while the dog was showing me it's teeth and barking at my ankles. I got off my bike and walked past her, she was yelling at me and waiving her arms like a crazy person.I said very little to her. I got on my bike and tried to get away from her and the dog. As soon as I got five feet from her she yells, "get him" "get him" to the dog. The dog gives chase nipping at my feet for a good 100 yards. At that point I had two options. One was to boot the dog in the face. Or two was to just put on the afterburners and dust the dog. I chose the latter.

    So watch out for this woman. From what I hear she is in and around the Sheeps Fold. I thought initially when I heard the strory it was exagerated, but it is not. She is for real, and in my opinion very dangerous. It is just a matter of time before someone gets bit by her dog.

    Greg
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  2. #2
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    THIS is the instance when you needed to be snappin digipics, not the other thread.

  3. #3
    Black Lion
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailGuru
    THIS is the instance when you needed to be snappin digipics, not the other thread.

    True that!
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  4. #4
    Who are the brain police?
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    She's going to pull that move on the wrong person sooner or later. I love dogs, but her actions dictate that its going to get hurt.
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  5. #5
    The endless excuses guy
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    Crazy Mary

    Wow! Not to trying to make your encounter petty or anything, but that was funny. Any idea of what she was freakin' about?
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  6. #6
    Black Lion
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rooster
    Wow! Not to trying to make your encounter petty or anything, but that was funny. Any idea of what she was freakin' about?

    It is funny on paper, but not in person.
    She was freaking because she does not want bikes on "her" trails. The same old story.
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  7. #7
    The endless excuses guy
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogreg
    It is funny on paper, but not in person.
    She was freaking because she does not want bikes on "her" trails. The same old story.
    I agree with TrailGuru, next time/if you see her, take some pictures of her. You tried to appease(sp?) her with kindness, now its your turn to freak her out. What you do with the pix is up to you, but I'd like to see 'em
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  8. #8
    Who are the brain police?
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    I hope yogreg's digicam has very little shutterlag. Those extra seconds are important when a dog is bolting for you on the owners command to "attack"....
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  9. #9
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    See if someone has a helmet cam you can use. She might not notice it and really incriminate herself.

  10. #10
    Black Lion
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locoman
    I hope yogreg's digicam has very little shutterlag. Those extra seconds are important when a dog is bolting for you on the owners command to "attack"....

    Its not too bad.
    May be riding there tonight. Maybe I can try and bag her. (joke)
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogreg
    Its not too bad.
    May be riding there tonight. Maybe I can try and bag her. (joke)
    Maybe she just needs a little loving Greg? Try giving her a hug, maybe get a little feel while your at it?

  12. #12
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    get a pit bull to go bike riding with you next time. then see who is boss and then block her way and everything she did. Bring a cam and then sure her for attacking you with the dog. Just joking but she does seam a little wacked.

  13. #13
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    That was my mother...sorry Greg she thought you were Louis.
    Your bike can take you anywhere, anytime, over any terrain but, you have to force it to GK 2004. BB1, who started it?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by minkhiller
    That was my mother...sorry Greg she thought you were Louis.
    ouch!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogreg
    Was out today on a small group ride. Coming down one of the backside trails from the Sheeps Fold area, when I encountered a very hostile irrational older woman with a small brown dog.

    Upon spotting her I did all the right things. Alerting her to my presence as to not spook her or her dog. As PC as I was it was to no avail as she tried to block my passage. All the while the dog was showing me it's teeth and barking at my ankles. I got off my bike and walked past her, she was yelling at me and waiving her arms like a crazy person.I said very little to her. I got on my bike and tried to get away from her and the dog. As soon as I got five feet from her she yells, "get him" "get him" to the dog. The dog gives chase nipping at my feet for a good 100 yards. At that point I had two options. One was to boot the dog in the face. Or two was to just put on the afterburners and dust the dog. I chose the latter.

    So watch out for this woman. From what I hear she is in and around the Sheeps Fold. I thought initially when I heard the strory it was exagerated, but it is not. She is for real, and in my opinion very dangerous. It is just a matter of time before someone gets bit by her dog.

    Greg
    just chillin' today, reading some old posts and saw this one. Dude, you're not the only one to encounter this crazy beeyatch!! Damn, some folks are just plain nutso. There's also a woman with a yellow lab who walks on the mtbike loop up around the res in Winchester and she'll purposefully block the trail - and when you ask to pass, she ignores ya or shakes her head no, then ya' eventually go around her and she starts freaking-out. The second time i saw her she told her dog to "get him" as i went off-trail and passed her, but it was a lab so it tried to lick me. Dogs know better than some people who the good guys are...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by whittij
    just chillin' today, reading some old posts and saw this one. Dude, you're not the only one to encounter this crazy beeyatch!! Damn, some folks are just plain nutso. There's also a woman with a yellow lab who walks on the mtbike loop up around the res in Winchester and she'll purposefully block the trail - and when you ask to pass, she ignores ya or shakes her head no, then ya' eventually go around her and she starts freaking-out. The second time i saw her she told her dog to "get him" as i went off-trail and passed her, but it was a lab so it tried to lick me. Dogs know better than some people who the good guys are...
    Still beats bumping into the "naked-guy" out there in the middle of the night....

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MARider
    Still beats bumping into the "naked-guy" out there in the middle of the night....
    no doubt. only seen that freak during the day.

  18. #18
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    Crazy!!!!!

    Riding onto the white trail tonight from the Sheepfold field, the lady with the dog blocked the path and started yelling at us to stay on our own trails. I said nothing and tried to go by her, she grabbed my handlebar and tried to physically stop me from getting by. I told her to let go of my bike immediately. I went into the brush to get by her as did the guys I ride with. As soon as I got past her she siced the little dog on me by saying "go get him." The dog went nuts and chased after us and started to nip.

    I thought the lady was unstable and therefore should be avoided, not confronted (she might have mace or even a gun--we are talking about a deranged and angry person IMO). Anyway we took off at full speed and after 5 minutes of cranking I could still here her chasing us. We met some other riders heading in the opposite direction and suggested they turn around, which they did. We took off and climbed to the top of the white where it opens up-well she must have cut us off at the pass. She was already ahead of us and was now piling logs and rocks on the trail to prevent people from riding by. We turned around again here just as she saw us. Now we had some serious downhill advantage over her and we took off fast. We did not see her again but mostly because we stayed on the orange.

    This is very bad. We are a very calm group of dog loving pacifists. She is going to run into the wrong group of people and either she, the rider or the dog is going to get hurt. Also, we had to turn around and could not do the ride we had intended on doing because of her. She said she is there every night. There is no way we are not going to ride those trails because of her.

    I am not sure what I will do when I see her again?which I am sure I will as we ride there twice a week.

    Any thoughts or suggestions? This woman is completely unreasonable and started swearing and screaming and callings us "dudes" after we got past her.
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  19. #19
    Black Lion
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    Quote Originally Posted by MARider
    Riding onto the white trail tonight from the Sheepfold field, the lady with the dog blocked the path and started yelling at us to stay on our own trails. I said nothing and tried to go by her, she grabbed my handlebar and tried to physically stop me from getting by. I told her to let go of my bike immediately. I went into the brush to get by her as did the guys I ride with. As soon as I got past her she siced the little dog on me by saying "go get him." The dog went nuts and chased after us and started to nip.

    I thought the lady was unstable and therefore should be avoided, not confronted (she might have mace or even a gun--we are talking about a deranged and angry person IMO). Anyway we took off at full speed and after 5 minutes of cranking I could still here her chasing us. We met some other riders heading in the opposite direction and suggested they turn around, which they did. We took off and climbed to the top of the white where it opens up-well she must have cut us off at the pass. She was already ahead of us and was now piling logs and rocks on the trail to prevent people from riding by. We turned around again here just as she saw us. Now we had some serious downhill advantage over her and we took off fast. We did not see her again but mostly because we stayed on the orange.

    This is very bad. We are a very calm group of dog loving pacifists. She is going to run into the wrong group of people and either she, the rider or the dog is going to get hurt. Also, we had to turn around and could not do the ride we had intended on doing because of her. She said she is there every night. There is no way we are not going to ride those trails because of her.

    I am not sure what I will do when I see her again?which I am sure I will as we ride there twice a week.

    Any thoughts or suggestions? This woman is completely unreasonable and started swearing and screaming and callings us "dudes" after we got past her.
    This is a very serious problem.
    Since my incident I know of at least three other groups not including yours thathave had similar confrontations.
    All people are being encouraged to call the Police and file reports. We need to get documantation for future actions. What she is doing can be considered an assault. She is using her dog in an aggressive manner. Luckily nobody has been bit as of yet. It is just a matter of time.

    I will flat out not ride the Fells anymore due to this woman and others. Some dog owners in the Fells are getting very careless in my opinion. You almost cannot go through the Sheeps Fold field anytime in the afternoon due to the many dogs off leash that chase after you.
    I an a dog lover as well, I am just not a lover of bad dog owners.
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  20. #20
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    come-on now!

    while that is totally inexcusable behavior on that insane lady's part, the white trail is closed to riding. if you want to ride them, you're gonna piss some people off - as there are some loony hikers/walkers who love to make a big stink. how would, "a mtbiker ran over my dog on a closed trail" sound in the news? while it may have been that crazy woman's fault and the dog had nipped your ass twelve times, it wouldn't play-out like that on the news.

    there's some singletrack sections that are legal in the Fells (like along south border road) then there's stuff that a lot of folks don't walk on that much - or at least i haven't had any issues on (like the cross-fells trail)... and if that doesn't satisfy, there are a ton of places to ride within 25miles of boston. ... i ride a lot of hours per week, live close to the fells and while the orange trail is a favorite, i now avoid it as it helps preserve mtbiking in the Fells. when i was younger, i didn't give a **** about the hikers and all that, then i saw the reality of the situation and the ability of one group to put its policies in place. would mtbiking get kicked-out of the fells? who the hell knows, all i know is that it's not worth losing everything 'cause some folks don't want to drive an extra 30mins to ride decent singletrack. when i need a good dose of singletrack, i head somewhere else - no big deal.

  21. #21
    Black Lion
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    Quote Originally Posted by whittij
    while that is totally inexcusable behavior on that insane lady's part, the white trail is closed to riding. if you want to ride them, you're gonna piss some people off - as there are some loony hikers/walkers who love to make a big stink. how would, "a mtbiker ran over my dog on a closed trail" sound in the news? while it may have been that crazy woman's fault and the dog had nipped your ass twelve times, it wouldn't play-out like that on the news.

    there's some singletrack sections that are legal in the Fells (like along south border road) then there's stuff that a lot of folks don't walk on that much - or at least i haven't had any issues on (like the cross-fells trail)... and if that doesn't satisfy, there are a ton of places to ride within 25miles of boston. ... i ride a lot of hours per week, live close to the fells and while the orange trail is a favorite, i now avoid it as it helps preserve mtbiking in the Fells. when i was younger, i didn't give a **** about the hikers and all that, then i saw the reality of the situation and the ability of one group to put its policies in place. would mtbiking get kicked-out of the fells? who the hell knows, all i know is that it's not worth losing everything 'cause some folks don't want to drive an extra 30mins to ride decent singletrack. when i need a good dose of singletrack, i head somewhere else - no big deal.

    What you are saying is totally true, However the "lady" goes out of her way to confront riders in a very dangerous and negative way. I also have been avoiding the Fells as of late, too much chance for trouble. Plus I live ten minutes from Lynn Woods, but did really start my riding in the Fells back in the day. Avoiding the confrontation by staying off certain trails is great advice, but not driving a car to avoid an accident is good advice as well.

    I have been bitten by a careless dog owner in the past and it is not pretty.
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  22. #22
    Who are the brain police?
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    I say Fells riders start carrying burlap sacks. During the next confrontation, the dog goes in the sack. Then someone can hand the woman a printed list of demands (--the letters need to be cut from different newspapers)....

    Personally, I stay away from that area when I ride the fells. Not to avoid nutbags and dogs, but to avoid dog crap. Had to many experiences with crap mud all over my bike and splashed up my back. Yuck.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locoman
    I say Fells riders start carrying burlap sacks. During the next confrontation, the dog goes in the sack. Then someone can hand the woman a printed list of demands (--the letters need to be cut from different newspapers)....

    Personally, I stay away from that area when I ride the fells. Not to avoid nutbags and dogs, but to avoid dog crap. Had to many experiences with crap mud all over my bike and splashed up my back. Yuck.
    I hear you about the dog crap. I love that ridge on the white and would hate to have to avoid it every time we rode there. We will probably stay away from the Fells in general for a while. I ride there a lot before work in the am by myself and hope not to see her then as well.
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  24. #24
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    MARider,

    Greg's original post was about a woman with a small brown dog.

    Was your latest encounter the same woman/dog?

    Either way that is crazy that there are people like her that are so mentally unstable out there...and she probably thinks she's doing the right thing too!

    Like Greg said, I absolutely love dogs but I have zero tolerance for bad dog owners. I hope to god I don't run into this lady...out of fear that I'd get my ass bit and out of fear that i'd absolutely flip out on this woman.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRUSHE
    MARider,

    Greg's original post was about a woman with a small brown dog.

    Was your latest encounter the same woman/dog?

    Either way that is crazy that there are people like her that are so mentally unstable out there...and she probably thinks she's doing the right thing too!

    Like Greg said, I absolutely love dogs but I have zero tolerance for bad dog owners. I hope to god I don't run into this lady...out of fear that I'd get my ass bit and out of fear that i'd absolutely flip out on this woman.

    Has to be the same woman. Thin woman, probably late around 50. Little dog is light brown and chased us for probably 1 mile, barking and nipping at us the whole way. She was never to far behind and kept yelling "go get him" to her poor dog. The dog probably is very worked up because of her. I would not recomend confronting her. I would hate for something bad to happen. She appears to be mentally unstable and is dangerous. If she is will to sic her dog on you, what else could she be capable of? Scary.
    cuz you're growns up and you're growns up and you're growns up...

  26. #26
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    Damn man, that is so crazy.

    Just another reason to yeah, watch your backs...and each other's.

  27. #27
    Black Lion
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    MA Rider's woman is the same as mine described her to the tee.

    I echo the sentiments of trying to avoid the woman. Or at least not confronting her. She is clearly troubled.
    She had no problems rushing at me and freaking out. Crazy people cannot be reasoned with.

    It is a shame that we can't just ride out bikes in the woods without all these hassels. I mean all we are doing is riding bikes, not "crapping" all over the woods.

    Greg
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogreg
    MA Rider's woman is the same as mine described her to the tee.

    I echo the sentiments of trying to avoid the woman. Or at least not confronting her. She is clearly troubled.
    She had no problems rushing at me and freaking out. Crazy people cannot be reasoned with.

    It is a shame that we can't just ride out bikes in the woods without all these hassels. I mean all we are doing is riding bikes, not "crapping" all over the woods.

    Greg

    Good point. Also, while I know the access rules prohibit bikers on those trails, the worst part is I have never once bumped into a hiker on that section of trail (I actually almost never see other bikers either). Plus, the terain there is mostly rock (low erosion risks). It just makes no sense. The whole thing is frustrating. Oh well to Lynn and Nam we will go.......
    cuz you're growns up and you're growns up and you're growns up...

  29. #29
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    As much as I love dogs, I might carry some pepper spray. If the dog chases you, spray it. If the owner chases you, spray her too. I've heard of "assault with a deadly weapon" charges being brought against dog owners who sic their dogs on people, so you should be well within your legal rights to defend yourself with non-lethal pepper spray. Your other option is to start carrying dog treats and turn the dog against its psychotic owner. That would probably break the woman more than you pepper spraying her, and be humane too.
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  30. #30
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    Common!

    How a bout pepper spray. Did anyone think of that! For the owner and the dog. Hose the mut down a few times and I guarentee it won't be nippin at anyones heels anymore. d Bring some bisquits for the yellow lab though, they rule.

  31. #31
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    How about hosing down the old bag instead?

  32. #32
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    I'll have to start bringing my half black lab/half pit along with me to the Fells. She's all cute and cuddly until another dog messes with her and then it's OFF WITH YOUR HEAD!

    She loves little dogs - she thinks they're delicious.

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    I also had an encounter with this woman on the orange trail. She started screaming hysterically before I was even in sight, but instead of riding past her I actually engaged her in conversation. I was not aware the trail was off limits, and thanked her for informing me. I also told her that the assumption that all mountain bikers were reckless jerks probably wouldn't get her very far, and that she would be more effective if she expressed herself a little more calmly. As I turned my bike back toward the mountain bike loop I told her that she was also in violation of park rules by not having her dog on a leash, and that if I saw her again I would report her. She was dumbfounded and shut up pretty quickly.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by PutAwayWet
    As much as I love dogs, I might carry some pepper spray. If the dog chases you, spray it. If the owner chases you, spray her too.
    I agree, pepper spray for both of them. I love dogs too, but this is an owner issue. If she is sicking the dog after you, I would have not troble spraying her too

    Also if anyone sees her getting into her car, get the plate. Report her to the Stoneham police, the Fells Rangers and the MSPCA. She is putting her dog at risk when she does this.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by csaenger
    I also had an encounter with this woman on the orange trail. She started screaming hysterically before I was even in sight, but instead of riding past her I actually engaged her in conversation. I was not aware the trail was off limits, and thanked her for informing me. I also told her that the assumption that all mountain bikers were reckless jerks probably wouldn't get her very far, and that she would be more effective if she expressed herself a little more calmly. As I turned my bike back toward the mountain bike loop I told her that she was also in violation of park rules by not having her dog on a leash, and that if I saw her again I would report her. She was dumbfounded and shut up pretty quickly.
    This sounds like the most logical reponse I've read on this thread. While this lady seems to be taking the hiker only rule to the extreme (I also hate bad dog owners) it does sound as if you are not allowed to ride there-so why are you guys even tempting fate by riding on hiker only trails? It's easy to forget that not everyone loves mountain biking as much as we do and the vast majority of people out there are either completely ignorant about it or want nothing to do with it. I would suggest simply staying on the trails marked for riding.

  36. #36
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    I've been looking at the Fellsbiker site and I'm really confused as to what is and what is not open. Are the Reservoir and Skyline trails the ones that you refer to that are closed to bikes? The site makes them sound like they're open. I'm moving to Malden so I'm looking for close biking and the Fells seems to fit the bill.

  37. #37
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    You're better off riding in Lynn where everything is fair game. That being said the Fells has a-lot of great trails but you need to know where they are and from what I was told the time I rode there most of the good trails are Hiker only Besides Why bother when Lynn is only minutes away. Just park behind Full Blast (formally Big Dog) and the trails are yours to explore.

  38. #38
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    either that or someone could hire Tony Soprano to "finish" the job

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    I agree about going to Lynn. The Fells is a complete pain in the neck in regards to what is legal and what isn't. All the hippie weekend hikers are a pain in the neck too.

    I never have a bad experience in Lynn. Two years in a row I have bumped into the "Naked Hiker" and just this past April my buddy and I rolled up on a dude wacking his stuff in a yellow rubber boat. The guy was in the middle of Fells woods and no where near water!

    I am all set with the Fells... Lynn is great!

  40. #40
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    A couple of notes...

    a) I think pepper spray is against the law in MA. I had a friend who was saying she wanted to go out of state to buy some to protect herself, despite this.

    b) I think reporting her to the authorities is the best idea. However, you can't fix this problem (her) if you're on a trail you're not supposed to. The way to get access to these trails is to behave well on the legal trails first. And doing things like reporting dangerous hikers can help.

    c) I like the 'standup to her' tactic. Dogs must be leashed in the park. Perhaps, instead of pepper spray, a spritz-spray bottle (if you have a pack to accommodate) would be enough to turn away the dog... many dogs are more bark than bite, esp. if you show no fear. Of course, all it takes is one dog that bites you to make that a moot point.

    d) I think it's important to continue riding the Fells to show 1) we're good citizens [riding on approved trails] 2) show others who would have us removed that we're going to stand up for our access rights.

    Look forward to seeing everyone in the Fells
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    You heard it right! I have heard stories, wonderous rumors of the
    the phsyco women who thinks she is the keeper of the fells and sicks her 2 pound dog on you. Well folks it happened to me last night and it was quite the experience.

    She actually tried to push me off my bike so I stopped, looked at her, realized who she was and started laughing.
    Laughing b/c i was in shock that this feeble b**ch had the balls to put her hands on me and also out of excitement b/c I realized who she was. Regardless to say she tried to sick fido on me but I just screamed liked a mad man at it and ran away. While during my yell fest at the dog she was trying to lay into my buddy. He was so stunned he didnt know what to do. Either way this was straight up assualt and I should have called the cops but whatever. I plan on writing a letter to the head ranger as I have met him out on the trails and was totally cool. He told me if I had any issue w/ any groups or people to go straight to him.

    She actually was calling me out to push her back! Ofcourse I didnt but just laughed in her face which caused her more hatred for me and I loved every moment of it. Regardless this lady is off her rocker, straight up nuts. This women needs to be dealt with in an official manner! She's lucky I am an animal lover otherwise I would have introduced my foot to fido's @ss!

    BTW I was not on an illegal trail!

  42. #42
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    i ride what i want to ride, if someone has a problem with it they try to catch me.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rooster
    I agree with TrailGuru, next time/if you see her, take some pictures of her. You tried to appease(sp?) her with kindness, now its your turn to freak her out. What you do with the pix is up to you, but I'd like to see 'em
    I suggest you send the pics to me, that way I can post them on my web site, and then call the DCR and ask them what they plan on doing about this
    Those Friends of the Fells members are truly 'fanatics', luckily they don't have pitbulls!

  44. #44
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    I dont suffer fools or mental people. Last time a dog nipped at my legs it got smashed pretty hard by my pedal... not that i did it intentionally but i had a bloody good laugh about it.

    Woulda told that b..... to shut the hell up before she gets boxed the hell up.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by oddestfellow
    I'll have to start bringing my half black lab/half pit along with me to the Fells. She's all cute and cuddly until another dog messes with her and then it's OFF WITH YOUR HEAD!

    She loves little dogs - she thinks they're delicious.

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    very cute
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogreg
    MA Rider's woman is the same as mine described her to the tee.

    I echo the sentiments of trying to avoid the woman. Or at least not confronting her. She is clearly troubled.
    She had no problems rushing at me and freaking out. Crazy people cannot be reasoned with.

    It is a shame that we can't just ride out bikes in the woods without all these hassels. I mean all we are doing is riding bikes, not "crapping" all over the woods.

    Greg
    Easy way to solve the problem - can of mace for the lady and a cleat to the dog's head.

    If that Beeeeech grapped any part of me or my bike OR got in my way while trying to be courteous to her would have gotten her slapped...

    In all seriousness though, I do think you guys should report these incidents to the police or the park officials (if any) I've never rode Fells and hearing this would seriously deter me. I don't have patience for people like that. Dog would come near me, she and her dog would get sprayed with mace. End of story. Then 911 would promptly be dialed on my phone! I understand them wanting to "preserve the trails" but like in past discussions - there are other people that use the trails that cause more damage. Granted, I'm sure there are always the mtb riders that don't care and will tear up anything, but I think for the most part we try to be respectful because we want the trail to be in a condition that is rideable. Just my two cents...

    P.S. It is Lou's fault...:P
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  47. #47
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    I'm disturbed by how many people seem not to care or can justify riding in off limits trails. These trails are closed to bikers to prevent/reduce such conflicts between different user groups.

  48. #48
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    I dont justify riding off limits. I justify when I am riding in the limits and wacked women and there little pets try to attack and push you off your bike.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo742
    I'm disturbed by how many people seem not to care or can justify riding in off limits trails. These trails are closed to bikers to prevent/reduce such conflicts between different user groups.
    The trails are closed to bikes because the friends of the fells hate mountain bikes and will do/say anything to cast a poor light on us. And the dcr basically does whatever the friends of the fells suggest because friends groups are supposed to represent the interests of the park and the parks users. Clearly this isn't the case in the fells, but there is no official system set up to challenge a friends group.

    I'm disturbed at how YOU justify assaulting mountain bikers in the fells by trying to put the blame on US.

    You are a 1 poster so you are probably a bike hating forum troll anyway
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  50. #50
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    Did I ever "justify" her actions? No, I didn't. Her actions seem out of line, as is using a trail that is not open to mountain biking. Neither is acceptable. I don't blame her for getting angry though, if I was hiking on a hiking only trail and a biker blew by I'd be pissed too.

    I enjoy mountain biking a great deal, I also enjoy hiking. Some people enjoy horseback riding. There are many potential users of spaces and some uses are not compatible with each other and some terrain/habitat is not compatible with certain uses, so rules are set up.

    If you don't agree with a rule you don't break it at a whim. You can work to change it. You could join the Freinds of the Fells and work within the group.

    Breaking the rules because you don't agree with them is not a proper response and all that does is hurt reputations of mountain bikers. Your agression and defensiveness helps no one and nothing.

  51. #51
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    Your point of view seems to be based around your belief that it is "wrong" to ride a bike on a trail that is closed to biking, regardless of WHY it was closed. This is where most bikers and bike-haters differ. In the fells, the trails are closed because the friends of the fells hate bikes. That is not a good enough reason to keep bikers off the trails. Most bikers ride in parks all over the area, and they see how in all the other parks, bikes are allowed on singletrack trails and there are no issues. Most bikers also know that the friends of the fells are in many ways extremists and that they are the only reason bikes are not allowed on singletrack here. There are trail erosion issues throught the fells, but these problems, and solutions, are caused by all trail users. They just like to point the fingers at bikes.

    You suggest joining the friends of the fells to help change the rules. That has been done before. Large groups of bikers have joined the friends of the fells, only to have the board of the fof go into private sessions to prevent bikers from having any say. It would be nice if the DCR created policy based on ecological and geological reasons, not soley based the friends group opinions.

    Also its interesting that you feel that not all of the many different forms of outdoor recreation are not compatible on the same trails. Although I completely disagree, if this is true, how come bikes are only allowed on a tiny portion of the singletrack in the fells (probably around 5% or less) ?
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  52. #52
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    No, most "responsible" bikers realize that if a trail is closed to biking they do not have the moral authority to just ignore any rule they don't agree with. Thankfully most people in our society just do not agree with such an anarchistic mentality. Unfortunately, the "bikers" you refer to that have that mentality are the ones that ruin the reputation of biking and that hurts the rest of use (most of us!) that follow the rules. All bikers that ignore rules at their leisure do is create more bike haters and the rest of us suffer!

    It is quite clear that not all forms of recreational trail use can co exist. Any review of the recreation management literature clearly shows this. I'm an avid biker

    <i>There are trail erosion issues throught the fells, but these problems, and solutions, are caused by all trail users. They just like to point the fingers at bikes</i>

    Yes, some erosion is caused by all user groups, but not all user groups have the same impact on erosion. Again, the science is quite clear on that.

  53. #53
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    "It is quite clear that not all forms of recreational trail use can co exist. Any review of the recreation management literature clearly shows this. I'm an avid biker"

    If this is true how come Lynn Woods is such a sucess? Hikers, Bikers and Equestrians share all the trails there. I klnow the equestrians don't ride on the power line side but the whole park is open to everyone. We can all get along, its just that some people don't want to let us into the clubhouse. In this situation there will always be poaching because they are not willing to compromise and there is no way to keep the bikers out. Yes bikers cause more erosion but we also have groups who do trail work to combat this and improve the trails for all users. The only reason for keeping bikers out of the fells is bigotry pure and simple.

    my 2 cents
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  54. #54
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    You're taking one example and saying it can work everywhere? What information do you have that it works at the Lynn woods? Do you have data showing that the equestrian users don't have issues with bikers, because the literature shows those two users have some of the highes impacts of erosion and worst compatibility levels. There are numerous factors that should be involved in creating trail management plans: user level, user types, soil types, slope, relationship of the trails to bodies of water, expectation of experience by the users, and numerous othes.

    No way to keep the bikers out? Hopefully an ethical biker would keep themselves out if a trail is closed. I certainly do, I would hope the rest of you would abide by the rules, promote the sport, and work within the system. If there is bigotry against bikers, and I have no doubts there is, then alot of that bigotry is due to the blatant disregard by bikers of the rules. A viewpoint that is sadly being promoted all too often here.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo742
    You're taking one example and saying it can work everywhere? What information do you have that it works at the Lynn woods? Do you have data showing that the equestrian users don't have issues with bikers, because the literature shows those two users have some of the highes impacts of erosion and worst compatibility levels. There are numerous factors that should be involved in creating trail management plans: user level, user types, soil types, slope, relationship of the trails to bodies of water, expectation of experience by the users, and numerous othes.

    No way to keep the bikers out? Hopefully an ethical biker would keep themselves out if a trail is closed. I certainly do, I would hope the rest of you would abide by the rules, promote the sport, and work within the system. If there is bigotry against bikers, and I have no doubts there is, then alot of that bigotry is due to the blatant disregard by bikers of the rules. A viewpoint that is sadly being promoted all too often here.
    a great solution would be to have trails in the Fells be for "bikers only" as the mtbike loop is also the most heavily used hiking and running trail and it is impossible to "let it rip" in fear of killing someone while many of the closed-to-bike trails see little use by hikers/runners and are perfect for riding. whatever is going-on with the FOF needs to be addressed as the system is failing. big-time. 1 trail for bikes is simply not enough considering how popular the Fells are for bikers.

    my solution is to rarely ride the Fells in the summer even though i live less than 1/2 mile away. i wait till all the "fair-weather" folks bail, then hit those trails (minus during mud season - if you're riding the Fells in mud season you deserve to be kicked in the junk. period).

  56. #56
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    "You're taking one example and saying it can work everywhere? What information do you have that it works at the Lynn woods?"

    Where else are the trails closed to bikers? The only other place I know is the Ancient Line trail in Manchester, very Muddy and buggy all spring and summer any way and also closed to equestrians. Harold Parker is open to all users as is Bradley Palmer, Dogtown, Ravenswood and Greenwoods. The fact that Lynn Woods is 100% open to all users is fact enough for me that it works. My friends and I have always stopped for the equestrians while riding there and made a point to be polite and courteous. Some reply in kind and others don't at all no big deal. I agree that what works in one place won't always work at another but for as long as I've been riding the fells has not tried this. I don't ride there often enough to care but closure anywhere hurts all of us in the long run. Its also BS that a public recreation area that's owned by the city or state and is supported by our taxes is closed to us because we prefer to ride a bike instead of hike. Erosion and Preservation are lame excuses considering the work that groups like NEMBA and Dieselbikes has put in to improve the trails for all users, as I stated before. The Fells is the only place there is an access issue around here and it has nothing to do with the bikers. All the above places prove it works, I'm done.

  57. #57
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    Can I ask a practical question at this point? Who the hell cares about equestrians??

  58. #58
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    The horses maybe?
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  59. #59
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    I have a general question about the Fells, which is probably going to sound pretty stupid ...

    Is there a unwritten law about the direction you ride the main Mountain Bike Loop that I'm unaware of? I was on the trail last night with my buddy, and we were the only bikers taking the trail clockwise around the Fells. We must have passed a dozen or so riders going the other direction.

    I don't want to muck up the works, so if its just "known" that you don't ride that way, someone please clue me in so I don't piss anyone off out there ...

  60. #60
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    [QUOTE=jimbo742]

    I enjoy mountain biking a great deal, I also enjoy hiking. Some people enjoy horseback riding. There are many potential users of spaces and some uses are not compatible with each other and some terrain/habitat is not compatible with certain uses, so rules are set up.

    QUOTE]

    Look at Lynn woods, Harold Parker, Wompituck. Hikers/Horseback riders and bikers all co-exist. The FOF might as well be the Nazi Regime. What kind of group throws broken glass on the mountian bike trail or places huge rocks in blind spots for someone to seriously injure themselves. Its sounds to me that your one of them and just posing as a rider. The most widely used trail is mountian bike loop. Why are hikers allowed on that anyway. Should it not only be for mountian bikers. And regarding the witch of the woods, I was on the box car track which is fair game to all.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by blacknblue
    I have a general question about the Fells, which is probably going to sound pretty stupid ...

    Is there a unwritten law about the direction you ride the main Mountain Bike Loop that I'm unaware of? I was on the trail last night with my buddy, and we were the only bikers taking the trail clockwise around the Fells. We must have passed a dozen or so riders going the other direction.

    I don't want to muck up the works, so if its just "known" that you don't ride that way, someone please clue me in so I don't piss anyone off out there ...
    Hmmm, I just rode the Fells loop for the first time and had the opposite experience, I was riding counter-clockwise and everyone I passed was riding clockwise.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalepickle
    Hmmm, I just rode the Fells loop for the first time and had the opposite experience, I was riding counter-clockwise and everyone I passed was riding clockwise.

    OK - blacknblue and dalepickle, just want to point out what might be a fundamental flaw in your logic. Whatever direction you ride the loop, you will likely pass more riders going the other way - because riders going in the same direction will probably stay roughly the same distance ahead of/behind you unless you are very slow or very fast. That said, I usually ride clockwise, not sure why.


    For those of you piling on to jimbo742, I have to say I agree with his points. Specifically
    1) Assaulting riders by crazy lady should never be tolerated, and should be reported to police.
    2) That said - doing a little PR work by staying off the closed trails and working with the system will get far better results than just disregarding the rules and riding wherever you want. Take the long view (you can tell I'm not a youngun' anymore) that you want to be able to ride at the Fells for years to come. If the FOF is as biased as claimed, then we should probably be concerned about losing access to ride there at all - they could easily claim (and I think they've tried in the past) that bikers disregard the closed trail signs and should be banned altogether.

    The truth comes out eventually, and the good work that some do with trail maintenance serves to help the case that bikers are good citizens and maybe helps expand the trail network for bikers. Don't be fooled into thinking that you have a "right" to ride your bike there. While it is public land, I'm pretty sure that restrictions can be imposed pretty easily. I just think jimbo742 is on the same side (pro-bikers/anti-crazy lady) as us.

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