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Thread: 650 b

  1. #1
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    650 b

    Any one ridding 650b yet ? And what are you on and were did you get it?
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  2. #2
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    i've spent time on 650 hard tails and full suss. over 20 yrs on 26 and almost 10 yrs on 29. 650b is the answer in my opinion. my next bike will be 650.

    jamis nemesis and the higher end full suss.

    rog

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    Come visit the 650b forum, we have a lot of New Englanders there since this wheel size offers good benefits for our trails. I have two 650b bikes ATM (but just one wheel set

    Here is a C456b on Mt. Pisgah in Berlin, MA:


    And here is a SC Nickel-B in Fells:


    I built them both up.

  4. #4
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    I just bought a Jamis Dakar 650b. I'm 5'8" and wanted a bigger wheel full suspension, but was afraid of going full 29er. I have a rigid 29er that I love, but just think a full susp would be too tall. I'm also getting this bike specifically to ride in technical terrain, so I wanted to have fairly beefy wheels without being too heavy, I think one of the reasons I love my 29er is because I have very light wheels on it. So I jumped on the 650b wagon.

    I have only 3 rides on it so far, but so far I love it. Honestly, I'm comparing it to an 8 year old bike, so there are substantial differences as far as axles, headset, bar, new bike is set up tubeless, etc.

    I've tried to pay attention to the the "feel" of the wheel size and honestly its tough to say. Kind of what you'd assume. Rolls better than 26, not as good as 29. Traction is awesome with the WTB wolverines set up tubeless at 22-24 psi. Steering is fairly quick, despite the head tube angle and the bike tracks noticeably better than my old bike, but this is probably cause of the stiffer front end. I haven't done any long downhills, but the bike really eats up technical terrain. Once again the suspension is brand new, but the bigger wheels definitely do help a bit.

    So far I'm happy I went 650b. The bike just seems to fit me very well and feels great. Its fun to ride.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/33175822@N06/7462440450/" title="2012-06-28 041 by Ice Cream Jay, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8155/7462440450_222c819150_c.jpg" width="800" height="600" alt="2012-06-28 041"></a>

  5. #5
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    thanks for the stoke guys my next bike i think will be 650..
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  6. #6
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    Not from your area, not even close, but thought I'd chime in a bit since I just decided to give them a go. Like IceCreamJay said, I love 29ers, but don't think they're for everyone, especially not shorter riders when travels starts to get up over 100mm.
    I tried the 650B thing 2 ways.....

    - 1st on the front of my old 26er Trance using an old Reba 29er.
    The improvement over running a standard 26" wheel was def noticeable, rolled over things easier and didn't "feel" as far away for me as the 26" wheel, no negatives for me, only positive improvement over a 26"/26" setup.

    - 2nd on the rear of my Prime FS29er with 130mm R/140mm F.
    I did not notice the lack of wheel size as much as I thought I would, it was subtle, only slightly less of a nice roll over, but way better than a 26er. Traction on climbs seemed good, but on a climb I regularly make running it stock 29"/29" I had the front end lift and maintaining traction was hard and had to stop - could have been the change in gearing or not dropping the bars a tad to compensate for the rear squat.

    I had previously setup the Trance as a 69er with 26" rear/29" front and the difference between wheelsizes was just to big, but using the 26"/650B it was much better and using 650B/29" was also a smoother feeling.

    Right now I'm back to 29/29 as I have tyres to test, but once I'd done with them I'll def be throwing the 650B back on and giving it another go and doing some fine tweaking to the setup so it's optimal. IMHO, 650B is very cool and set to give 26 wheeled bikes a damn good run for their money, especially in the longer travel side of things and for shorter people wanting this. For me though I did not see any benefits over the 29er (acceleration for me was only marginally better) and hence I'll be sticking to strictly 29ers - FYI I'm 6'2"
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    I have ridden a hardtail Jamis 650b and a Blur LT with 650b wheels. Honestly, they aren't worth it. For XC type riding that 29ers excel at, 29ers are superior. For more aggressive stuff, 26" is more nimble and more fun. The slight advantage 650b's have in "rollability" does not outweigh the noticeable loss in nimbleness/flickability/fun/insert your own adjective.

    To me, if you want big wheels, go all out and ride a 29er. 650b just isn't enough of a benefit to be worth the investment. Especially considering the limited wheel and tire choices.

    I'm not one of those 29er evangelists by any stretch, but if that's your style of riding, then 29ers are the best tool. Personally, I am going to stick with 26's. 650b is the answer to a question nobody was asking.

  8. #8
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    Great stuff

    The 650b conversion on my Prophet was a great move. I wanted to go 29'er (like everyone else), but the 650b thing kept me from doing it. I finally gave in and had a set of wheels built up and mounted with the Pacenti Neo Motos in 2.3 front and back. They are tubeless. The higher BB and slight change in height took about 2 rides to get used to, but then the comfort factor settled in and the bike has proven to be much faster. It rolls over the New England rocks and roots better. It rails through the turns and climbs better.

    I have ridden my friends' 29'ers (Hi-Fi, Camber, Tallboy) and I liked them, but I prefer the higher BB on my converted Prophet. I rode a Specialized carbon hardtail 29'er (forget the model) and that thing was sick. I won't be getting a hardtail, but that thing was smooth. light and flickable.

    I was rolling with 2.35 Nevegals on my 26" wheels before. The conversion dropped 2 pounds off my bike!

    The Neo Motos are amazing, expensive but amazing.
    My name is Chris and I ride a Prophet 650b with a Lefty.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by wibbly wobbly View Post
    The slight advantage 650b's have in "rollability" does not outweigh the noticeable loss in nimbleness/flickability/fun/insert your own adjective.
    I honestly notice no loss of nimbleness or fun, in fact the opposite because the bike grips and rolls better. Of course I may not be comparing apples to oranges. I'm comparing an 8 yr old bike to a new one and most of the improvements have nothing to do with wheel size.

    Quote Originally Posted by wibbly wobbly View Post
    650b is the answer to a question nobody was asking.
    Hey, I was asking.

    Personally I feel that for southern NE terrain the 650b is a good fit. The wheels seem right at home here.

  10. #10
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    thanks again guys.. let my search begin..
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by icecreamjay View Post
    Hey, I was asking.

    Personally I feel that for southern NE terrain the 650b is a good fit. The wheels seem right at home here.
    I'm asking too. I found that my hardtail 29er was great, but my FS 29er was awful. Just terrible. Picked up a bike to convert as I really like the benefits of FS (better climbing traction, suspension duh) but I can't do that with a 29er. It's too darn gangly and compromised. I'm hoping 650b will give me better rolling to get over all the roots, but not lose so much in the switchbacks.

    I think if you want a hardtail, 29er is totally doable. I think if you want DH or all you do is drops, 26" is the way to go. I think if you're corralled into one bike that's really flexible, 650 is a good choice.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich View Post
    I found that my hardtail 29er was great, but my FS 29er was awful. Just terrible. Picked up a bike to convert as I really like the benefits of FS (better climbing traction, suspension duh) but I can't do that with a 29er. It's too darn gangly and compromised.
    This is what I was afraid of. I love, love, love my rigid, SS 29er, but just think the FS 29er would be gangly (great way of putting it). But I did want wheels bigger than 26. Process of elimination left me at 650b.

  13. #13
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    I've been riding 650B for a couple of years. I had an Igleheart 953 650B SS and currently am building a 650B IF Deluxe (just got a rigid fork from IF). The wheels for the IF arrive tomorrow so I should be out an about by the weekend.

  14. #14
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    And what may I ask was your 29er FS? I'd suggest you not judge 29ers FS bikes just based on your experience with one bike, try others with different geo and thinking behind the design and you might find you like it, I know I do.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich View Post
    I'm asking too. I found that my hardtail 29er was great, but my FS 29er was awful. Just terrible. Picked up a bike to convert as I really like the benefits of FS (better climbing traction, suspension duh) but I can't do that with a 29er. It's too darn gangly and compromised. I'm hoping 650b will give me better rolling to get over all the roots, but not lose so much in the switchbacks.

    I think if you want a hardtail, 29er is totally doable. I think if you want DH or all you do is drops, 26" is the way to go. I think if you're corralled into one bike that's really flexible, 650 is a good choice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    And what may I ask was your 29er FS? I'd suggest you not judge 29ers FS bikes just based on your experience with one bike, try others with different geo and thinking behind the design and you might find you like it, I know I do.
    It was a Voodoo Canzo.

    I've been around long enough to know what works and what doesn't, at least for me. The suspension was horrible, a bad shock (radium) combined with spindly stays (flex) combined with massive chainstays (18.3") and a low pivot point (below the small ring) created a bike that didn't accelerate on command, respond to pedaling quickly, dig in on climbs, nor corner well. The lockout was the best thing about that bike.

    The Scott corrects some of the issues with the Canzo. 1" shorter chainstays, and a delightfully responsive aluminum frame that jumps when and where I tell it to.

    Now, the Scale uses an angled seat tube in order to achieve such short chainstays. that might be possible on an FS frame, but you have two major compromises. You either have a low pivot that doesn't allow for chainstay growth, but you end up with even more clearance issues, or you have a high pivot that allows for a super short static chainstay, but lots of chainstay growth under compression. There's no good answer, either you start long and get short with bad pedaling performance, or you start short and get long with good pedaling. So what do you want, a bike that handles well but pedals poorly, or a bike that handles poorly but pedals great?

    When you increase the clearance, you increase the possibilities, without compromising chainstay length. Hell, bikes like the Rush and others don't even need to be converted. You get the same chainstay length but you get a little less mud clearance. As I am a *****, mud clearance typically isn't a big issue but for a few seconds at most.

    Anyways, the wheel debate will rage forever, but those are my findings. Most other 29er FS bikes have 17.5" stays or longer. I just don't believe those "work" for east coast trails. You can force them, but switchbacks are not kind to long chainstays, and when your GPS looks like ramen noodles, it makes you think. The satori comes close, but it's pivot location is still going to contribute to CS growth, so you're looking at 17.5"-plus stays under sag. The DW bikes come in at 18+. The Tracer29 is 17.5".

    Can they work? Yes. They will definitely work for some people. If you ride long straight lines and gradual climbs, anything will work. Like I suggested before though, if you want one bike, why not hop on something that mixes all the best, with none of the worst?

  16. #16
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    .....and you're writing off FS 29er because THAT bike didn't ride well You've pointed out ALL the flaws with that frame and the why's of it would ride like a truck, as I said, try to ride a newer bike, with chainstays under 18" and the rest of the geo designed to suit and frame stiffness. FYI, the chainstays on my Banshee Prime prototype are 17.6" in the slack position and I can pop the front up at will and it does just dandy through the tight twisties, but really excels in the chunk, slow or fast.

    If I thought like you I'd have also given up on them years ago because of the flexy noodle rip9, but it did well enough that I could clearly see the benefits of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich View Post
    It was a Voodoo Canzo.
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    Ah yes, the Banshee prime. The bike so good you can't buy it. The bike so good that the few people who were given prototypes shout about how good nobody else can know it is. Mmm hmmm.

    Look: I'm writing off FS 29ers because they physically do not and can not make sense for tight twisty trails, which are most common on the east coast. Yes, you can get a bike that has a more vertical axle path and maintains the same chainstay length the entire time. Yes, chainstay length is not solely responsible for how a bike handles. And yes, people will constantly defend what they purchased even if it's not as good as they think.

    I truly believe that 29ers have merit. I think the wheels are not as slow to spin up as people b*tch about, and I think that the rollover and traction benefits are very real. I just don't think you can get around the physics of wheel size, mud clearance, and pivot location when you get above 3" of travel. I think 29er wheels are awesome for competitive XC. They ride fast as hell when it's time to move. They make hardtails feel like 4" travel 26ers, without the penalties of pedal bob. If I had room in my stable, I'd keep the Scott. Hell, I've given thought to selling my DH bike at a loss just so I can keep the HT around and get more use out of it, as it's that much fun. I just think that when you start upping the travel on big wheeled bikes, you end up with compromises that you don't need to put up with. It's like seeing a 5'2" woman on a 29er with a -15* drop stem, it's a compromise, and it's likely that she'd be better off on a smaller wheeled bike that's more appropriate to her body size. For a WC champion, do what gives you the edge. For a weekend warrior, are you really going to put up with riding a bike that also fits somebody 6'2"?

    Now, this is all my opinion. You don't have to come to my house bearing the torch of the 29er mafia. I've been riding for ~16 years, on full suspension for 90% of the time. I've spent most of that time on the east coast between boston and upstate NY. I can fully appreciate that a 29er would work on a nice flowy, hillside singletrack that cuts through the plains of california. I can understand that a 29er will grind out a 2mi climb better than anything else. I'm finally starting to become able to see through all the BS that the MTB industry spits at you. Your DW links, your VPPs; often times they don't do anything better than a well designed single pivot. Yes, on paper they may and people will damn sure yell at you if you say otherwise, but out on the trail, it comes down to fluff.

  18. #18
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    I completely disagree with your assessment of FS 29ers on New England trails. But to each his own. You are entitled to your opinion. I just don't like the way you make blanket statements that they can't work on New England trails. I have a Kona Satori and think it works great on our trails. I guess we can agree to disagree.

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    satori has nice short chain stays as might next years hei hei series. vroom vroom!!!

    rog

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    A 650b-ed SC Nickel has 16.7" chainstays. I occasionally ride with some folks on new nice 29ers like a Spec. Stumpjumper with 17.7" stays who know their sh*t and the Nickel still runs circles around the 29ers in tight spots. Just saying

  21. #21
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    Not yet you can't, but people should be getting their production frames come end of August. As to the hype and people being "given" prototypes and gushing over them, that is most definitely a false statement. Of the about 70 frames produced roughly 2/3 were sold, at a nice price, to people who signed up to test knowing they would be riding prototypes and that the design and weight etc could change dramatically.

    I rode a Banshee Paradox for over 1.5 years before the Prime and I can tell you, I am thinking about dropping the cash for the production frame for the few nice tweaks to geo, HT, adjustable drop out/geo and weight savings over my proto and I think that says a lot. I figured going to a bike with a WB 3"> longer than my Paradox with stays about 3/4" longer the bike would ride like a truck, but it doesn't, the ability to feel any difference between it and the Paradox is very hard indeed. I now regularly clean sections of trails I had trouble with before - ups, downs, flat, chunky tech.

    And to say the Prime is it all would be false, there are now a load of slacker, 5"> travel FS 29er out there that are being described by their owners and honest reviewers as being very nimble. The Prime proved to me that it's about the entire package, not just one number and that 17.6" is not long for stays on an FS.

    Go right ahead blanket judging FS 29ers, it's your loss, not mine.



    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich View Post
    Ah yes, the Banshee prime. The bike so good you can't buy it. The bike so good that the few people who were given prototypes shout about how good nobody else can know it is. Mmm hmmm.
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    I don't think anyone should be blanket judging any wheel size. I feel all 3 wheel sizes are valid and its just another way to customize the ride and fit of the bike. I agree with the FS 29er lovers, I'm sure they've found a bike they like and it works for them. I also think Sandwich has a point with matching wheel size to rider size. Frankly the reason I chose 650 over 29 is that I'm on the short end of average. I'm sure I could find a 29er that fits, but I just think 650b will fit better. The argument that there aren't enough rims and tires for 650b is valid, but hopefully they keep coming and in time that will change, thats what I'm betting anyway. We'll see.

  23. #23
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    Yup

    I ride with a crew who all ride FS 29'ers. If what I see is any indication , then a nice 29'er is very trail capable. I went 650b on my Prophet and I see how much of an advantage the bigger wheels have rolling over the rocky, rooty New England trails. I gained speed and momentum with the conversion. I have tons of BB clearance and a 6" travel bike. The 29'ers don't. I am 5' 8" at 165. 650b is me. 29 works for taller and bigger. I see no advantage for 26. That is the story going forward.
    My name is Chris and I ride a Prophet 650b with a Lefty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prophet Julio View Post
    I I see no advantage for 26.
    26" wheels are lighter (but stronger) and thus will accelerate, brake, and turn quicker. I demoed a nice GT 29 fs and I saw no overall advantages. Sure it rolled over stuff a little easier (almost unnoticably) but it felt too tall. I had a hard time leaning the bike over like I could with my 26 and overall it felt too slow to react. It kinda felt like I was on a road bike. If you like to sit and cruise all day then a 29er might be for you. But I like to get into the trail and throw the bike around and dance through the trees. If a big wheel could overcome the laws of physics and give me the same feel as a 26 then I would give it another try.
    Last edited by woodsguy; 07-21-2012 at 05:57 AM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prophet Julio View Post
    I ride with a crew who all ride FS 29'ers. If what I see is any indication , then a nice 29'er is very trail capable. I went 650b on my Prophet and I see how much of an advantage the bigger wheels have rolling over the rocky, rooty New England trails. I gained speed and momentum with the conversion. I have tons of BB clearance and a 6" travel bike. The 29'ers don't. I am 5' 8" at 165. 650b is me. 29 works for taller and bigger. I see no advantage for 26. That is the story going forward.
    it's not that 29ers can't work. It's that there's a large tradeoff with going monster size that you don't have to worry about when you take smaller wheels. I made my hardtail work, and I made my FS 29er work. It's just that they didn't work as well as I feel they could. I truly felt that the FS bike was a downer in technical situations, but it made up for it in rolling ability...ie, a compromise. I'm hoping that a 650b takes a little from each field and rolls it into a zero-compromise bike.

    And it's not a blanket judgement. It's actually pretty specific. I thought the 29er did well up at the kingdom trails. I thought it could do well on the fast sweeping trails of upstate NY. I think it would be fantastic on similar trails out west. I just don't think that in Eastern MA, where you're up and down and up and switchback and rocks and etc., they are the best choice.

    I really think the best geometry for eastern MA is a higher BB and a steeper HA. The "california" geometry of slack HAs and low BBs doesn't work right for tighter, off kilter turns. They do better with wide and fast. A converted 650b, on paper, is a great option for that.

    And remember, this is my opinion. If you want to run a 29" wheeled bike with 6" of travel, 31" bars, a 66* HA, and a 12" BB height up at Chelmsford or Sutton, that's your prerogative. I just don't believe it'll be faster, easier, nor more comfortable than a well sorted 26 or 27" bike.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMCoiler View Post
    I just don't like the way you make blanket statements that they can't work on New England trails.
    Agreed. Blanket statements in any direction aren't very objective or helpful. For example:

    Quote Originally Posted by woodsguy View Post
    ...If you like to sit and cruise all day then a 29er might be for you. But I like to get into the trail and throw the bike around and dance through the trees.
    Sitting and cruising sucks! Like woodsguy, I also like "get into the trail and dance through the trees". I did so for 5 years on various 26ers, and have been doing so for 2 years on 29ers.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodsguy View Post
    ...If a big wheel could overcome the laws of physics and give me the same feel as a 26 then I would give it another try.
    A little more body movement, time on the bike, and choosing a bike with geometry that suits your riding style, can all help overcome the symptoms of those damn laws of physics!

  27. #27
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    Sorry for the previous off-topic post. Each wheel size has it's own advantages and disadvantages. I don't currently miss my 26" bikes, but only time will tell if I ever get another. And I know plenty of people who can outride me on 26ers (and 29ers, and probably on 27.5ers).

    I hope this 650b option takes off. If I'm lucky, in a couple of years the market will be more 650b friendly and I'll be able to buy a decent one used in order to see what this new hype is about.

    Good luck, OP!

  28. #28
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    A little 650b love -

    The 2013 Turner Burner!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 650 b-burner.jpg  


  29. #29
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    Sweet

    Antonio,

    That Turner looks amazing! Next bike?
    My name is Chris and I ride a Prophet 650b with a Lefty.

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    It shall be called "Turner Marriage Burner". I want one bad. Or the Carbine 27.5.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by antonio View Post
    A little 650b love -

    The 2013 Turner Burner!
    wow that bike is sick... thanks again for all the stoke..
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich View Post
    I really think the best geometry for eastern MA is a higher BB and a steeper HA. The "california" geometry of slack HAs and low BBs doesn't work right for tighter, off kilter turns. They do better with wide and fast. A converted 650b, on paper, is a great option for that.
    100%.

    I'd like to 650b my new-Nickel frame in the future, once wheel prices go down and tire choices go up, but even as it is it's bottom bracket is a good bit higher than my old bike, and I'm loving it way more on the local trails.

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    Well, I'll have my front wheel rebuilt tonight, and am headed to the Kingdom trails this weekend, so I should have a decent feel by next Monday. We'll see if my theory holds true.

    I predict: it's a little better than 26" wheels, but overshined by having good tires vs. the kendas on there now.

  34. #34
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    More 650B Love

    Tracer 275





    Carbine 275



    Choice is good and there's gonna be allot more 650B bike choices very soon...and forks and wheels, rims and plenty of tires.

    Off the top of my head bikes from these companies are available or in the works.
    Jamis
    KHS
    Turner
    Ventana
    Intense
    Scott
    Norco
    Pivot
    Ellsworth
    Orbea

    There WILL be more so I guess it WAS a question people were asking. All I'll say is don't knock it till you try it.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    Skidad - how about a ride this Friday? I have about 66% chance of being able to ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Skidad - how about a ride this Friday? I have about 66% chance of being able to ride.
    66% huh? Funny! Well I'm more like 100% since I'm not working at the moment.

    What did you have in mind? Not really looking to head the Fells way but something out by 495 could work or head to Wompy (given time) and ride with Prophet Julio?
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    I feel like a lot of what's driving it is bike companies (and to a lesser extent riders) that were late to the 29er party being determined not to be late to the next big trend.

    I've ridden them and was not impressed. I am surprised that people talk about raising their BB - I have come to love the super low BB that has become de rigueur these days. I value pumping, jumping and hucking over cruising. I probably don't represent the opinion of the masses though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    66% huh? Funny! Well I'm more like 100% since I'm not working at the moment.

    What did you have in mind? Not really looking to head the Fells way but something out by 495 could work or head to Wompy (given time) and ride with Prophet Julio?
    It is a long story.

    Yep, I was thinking about Wompy or something else south/east of Boston with Julio. It is going to be a historically high concentration of 650bs in a small region!

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    Quote Originally Posted by wibbly wobbly View Post
    I feel like a lot of what's driving it is bike companies (and to a lesser extent riders) that were late to the 29er party being determined not to be late to the next big trend.

    I've ridden them and was not impressed. I am surprised that people talk about raising their BB - I have come to love the super low BB that has become de rigueur these days. I value pumping, jumping and hucking over cruising. I probably don't represent the opinion of the masses though.
    I do not really care about your opinion or your 29er fundamentalism but where do you ride?

  40. #40
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    ride all over, but mainly South Shore spots and Wompatuck.

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    Still loving my setup. Hit Highland again this weekend, we stuck to meadows end--fancy--cats scratch--happy hour--hellion. An absolute riot and hit everything with no issues.
    http://forums.mtbr.com/650b/initial-...0b-799184.html

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    Come on down!

    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    66% huh? Funny! Well I'm more like 100% since I'm not working at the moment.

    What did you have in mind? Not really looking to head the Fells way but something out by 495 could work or head to Wompy (given time) and ride with Prophet Julio?
    I could ride on Friday. I am riding tonight with a few people on 29'ers.
    My name is Chris and I ride a Prophet 650b with a Lefty.

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    I will be most likely able to join you there in late afternoon, depending on traffic (I plan to leave Win at around 4PM).

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    Quote Originally Posted by wibbly wobbly View Post
    ride all over, but mainly South Shore spots and Wompatuck.
    I appreciate your reply. Different strokes for different folks but you could hardly call the 650b-ers "masses", we are still few and far between.

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    I'm in, lets ride boys

    Quote Originally Posted by Prophet Julio View Post
    I could ride on Friday. I am riding tonight with a few people on 29'ers.
    Where and when? Mini 650B gathering @ Wompy

    Gotta ride more than with my newbie learning GF. Just got back from a Tues. group ride and paid the price for all that easy pedaling. All good though and it feels great to pour sweat for a few hours.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    Anytime

    I can meet whenever is good for you. I am 5 minutes away so let me know when you want to meet. StiHacka is talking about driving south at 4 or so. Takes a good fat hour or so from Winchester.

    I am psyched to show you around Wompy! We will rock the 650b's!
    My name is Chris and I ride a Prophet 650b with a Lefty.

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    More 650 love part 2

    For those not lurking in the 650B forum

    The new Ventana Zeus 650B frame. 2 standard colors and many custom ones also. They will also make small to large frame mods depending on what you are looking to do.




    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  48. #48
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    were did every one get there 650s
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    I got my wheels used and threw them on a C'dale Rush.

    Mini review: All of the handling of a 26 with some of the rolling characteristics of a 29er. I don't think they roll as well as a 29er, but I'd rather have a good handling bike than a steamroller that handles like one. No pedal strikes, which was nice, and the pacentis are great tires. I think this one's a keeper.

    Not sure I'd rush out and buy a 650 right now, but as they become more popular, I'd jump on the bandwagon.

  50. #50
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    Cool thread, glad I found it. I'm in CT and have been reading about everyone's experience with 650b on the forum and it sounds like it might be a winner for me. I'm ready to pull the trigger, just need to get off the trails and take some overtime so I can buy another wheel/tire set.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prophet Julio View Post
    I can meet whenever is good for you. I am 5 minutes away so let me know when you want to meet. StiHacka is talking about driving south at 4 or so. Takes a good fat hour or so from Winchester.

    I am psyched to show you around Wompy! We will rock the 650b's!
    Chris, that was a really fun time on Friday Wompy was super fun with some nice windy single track and techy trails. Hope you didn't mind having to wait at most of the corners for me and StiHacka but a pace a bit quicker than I'm used to and my legs were getting a bit rubbery towards the end You move good on that Prophet! There's lots more to explore down there so let get together again at some point.

    Hey, we forgot the mandatory 650B group photo
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich View Post
    I got my wheels used and threw them on a C'dale Rush.

    Mini review: All of the handling of a 26 with some of the rolling characteristics of a 29er. I don't think they roll as well as a 29er, but I'd rather have a good handling bike than a steamroller that handles like one. No pedal strikes, which was nice, and the pacentis are great tires. I think this one's a keeper.

    Not sure I'd rush out and buy a 650 right now, but as they become more popular, I'd jump on the bandwagon.
    Glad you like it (not that I'm surprised at all)! That Rush is just made for a 650B conversions and might be one of the best candidates out there for it. Give us some more updates after a few more rides.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    Hey, we forgot the mandatory 650B group photo

    Skidad, that was a good ride. We will have to regroup to get the photo of a 650b only ride! I went out the next morning and got a solid 20+ but smacked my elbow in a crash. Swollen but I don't think it's broken.

    Those Prophets go 650b pretty easily. Can't wait to see the new Jamis!

    Calling out for a mass 650b ride!
    My name is Chris and I ride a Prophet 650b with a Lefty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Glad you like it (not that I'm surprised at all)! That Rush is just made for a 650B conversions and might be one of the best candidates out there for it. Give us some more updates after a few more rides.
    I had a little trouble with the f.derailleur rubbing on the tire, but lowering got rid of any interference, and it improved my shifter by miles (and got rid of chainslap noise!). Otherwise no issues. I think the fork will be off to Mendon for a tune up and the shock maybe to PUSH. It's so light too!

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich View Post
    I had a little trouble with the f.derailleur rubbing on the tire, but lowering got rid of any interference, and it improved my shifter by miles (and got rid of chainslap noise!). Otherwise no issues. I think the fork will be off to Mendon for a tune up and the shock maybe to PUSH. It's so light too!
    What are you running up front 2 or 3 rings? If only 2 you can get the Shimano SLX M665 E type compact FD. Quite a bit shorter overall in the cage and it looks like the body might be a bit closer mounted to the seatpost as well. I've got one but haven't got around (or needed to with my Prophet) to mounting it up. These things are supposed to shift better as well from reviews I've read.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    Well the problem is pretty much solved by dropping the derailleur lower on the post. I don't think I'll need to raise it as it looks like I still have clearance for a larger ring, and the highest I want to go in the middle is 36t. It's more of a consideration for anybody converting....I never used my 44t, so I dropped it.

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    650b - yeti 575

    Hope you have been joining in on the 650b specific forum. Lots of good info including current news and recent development on anything 650b ! and Wow - love the Intense 650b lineup for 2013 !

    Bought my '07 Yeti 575 from the LBS in Milford, NH since few Yeti dealers in the East. I wanted something versatile that could handle rocky and gnarly conditions and still have the finesse for xc racing. And helped me move from beginner level to Cat 1 xc racing at local races and regionals at Mt. Snow and Windham. Finally converted it to 650b early this year, and it has turned into a different beast that rolls fast and still loves the switchbacks, and seems to be happiest when riding hard and aggresive. It's been retired from xc racing this year and I will not return it back to 26 unless winter and spring are so wet and sloppy that I will need an aggressive 26x2.35 on the rear since the clearance is so tight in the rear triangle. Really love this full suspension bike with 650b conversion !

    pics are near end in this 650b thread --

    http://forums.mtbr.com/650b/2006-yet...ok-745248.html
    Last edited by yetimeister514; 07-31-2012 at 10:07 AM. Reason: pics could not download

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetimeister514 View Post
    Bought my '07 Yeti 575 from the LBS in Milford, NH since few Yeti dealers in the East.
    Hurray for Bob!

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    looking good guys
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  60. #60
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    I would like to try that Intense out. But one thing that concerns me about 650B. Is the ability to roll over rocks a little easier worth it to have to deal with limited wheel/tire/tube options? How many shops even carry 650B tube/tires? What if you are on a road trip and need a tube? It might take alot of calls just to find a shop that has any. And forget about borrowing one from someone on the trail....

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    26" tubes fit fine. tires\rims are another matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodsguy View Post
    I would like to try that Intense out. But one thing that concerns me about 650B. Is the ability to roll over rocks a little easier worth it to have to deal with limited wheel/tire/tube options? How many shops even carry 650B tube/tires? What if you are on a road trip and need a tube? It might take alot of calls just to find a shop that has any. And forget about borrowing one from someone on the trail....
    No shops carry 650b tires nor tubes, and they won't for a while. 26" tubes fit perfectly, like "why bother with 650b tubes" perfectly. If you're going on a road trip or far from home, it's worth bringing a spare tire though.

    Tire selection sucks, but you have to decide what you need. Do you need to run semi slicks, ultra sticky double ply DH tires, and road tires on the same bike? Or does your XC rig stay on XC trails? I am very impressed with the pacenti neomotos from a trail bike standpoint. They roll well, corner impressively, and don't slip on climbs. I haven't tried them in the wet yet though. I can't think of a better tire to usher in 650b, and I'm fairly certain that there would be no 650b if it wasn't such a good tire. I'm rarely totally satisfied with tires, but these are really great.

    Anyways, sorry for the rant, but i think you need to determine whether you are a "change tires daily" kind of guy, or a "same tire for 90% of conditions" kind of guy.

  63. #63
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    I would say that the lack of rims and tires is probably the biggest downside (only downside?) of 650b. I'm currently running the WTB Wolverines, which aren't being made this year. I plan on picking up a set of neomotos as well and there are supposed to be a bunch of new tires coming next year (all the Schwalbe's and some others too).

    I have a couple of bikes and don't really vacation with them, so if I wrecked a wheel it wouldn't be the end of the world, I can be patient. But don't expect to find any 650b stuff in a shop, I would guess for at least several years, if ever ....

  64. #64
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    Cool input into 650B riding on our territory here. I'm eager to give 650b a try but have been holding out due to tire selection. A sympathize with those here who feel that the 29 inch wheels can be less nimble in some situations where it's nice to be able to throw a lighter wheel around. If I were living in the desert on the West Coast my main bike would probably be a 29r, but here I do like my 26 inch wheels and while my rides may be slightly slower overall that with bigger wheels, I think I attempt some steep rocky climbs more aggressively than I could on a 29 inch wheel because it just feels easier to bail off the smaller bike with smaller wheels in sticky situations.

  65. #65
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    I really love my Jamis, I know some question the geometry (long stays, somewhat steep HTA) but the bike works for me. Its a fantastic all around technical trail bike for rugged New England trails. I've bombed through some rock gardens at speeds I didn't think possible, clearing some with momentum alone. It corners great and the steering feels quick and precise. It descends well and handles short climbs very nicely. Longer climbs are a grind, a lockout would be nice, but truth is I'd probably forget to use it 90% of the time. The bike fits me well and I feel the wheel size fits me well, at least on a trail bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by danhasdrums View Post
    Cool input into 650B riding on our territory here. I'm eager to give 650b a try but have been holding out due to tire selection.
    Hey Dan you know who to ask if you want to try 650b, do not you? Btw. your typical day's mileage is quite impressive!

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Hey Dan you know who to ask if you want to try 650b, do not you? Btw. your typical day's mileage is quite impressive!
    On the mileage, I cheat. I have a cross bike and no job. (Well, no job until Monday anyway)
    I may take you up on that offer. I still can't believe you were on that ride at the Fells that night and I didn't recognize you or your bike... In exchange, you would get to ride a 28 lb 26 inch wheeled hardtail with a fork that flexes in whatever direction it feels like.

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    Finally got some photos. She's not much to look at, but she rides nice!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 650 b-imag0313.jpg  

    650 b-imag0314.jpg  


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    Curious how much travel that thing has now and how much did it have as a 26er? Doesn't look like it could have more than about 75-80mm of travel, max.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich View Post
    Finally got some photos. She's not much to look at, but she rides nice!
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

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    110mm front and rear. It rides goofy right now because I'm fighting with the suspension. The fork could use a rebuild, and I'm still whittling the air pressure down on the shock. The starting air pressures were way too rough. Same travel before and after, no further conversion was necessary.

  71. #71
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    wow this 650 thing is really getting me going now with rocky mountain on board.. its going to go off
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  72. #72
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    I can often be seen riding this 650B beast around my neck of the woods.



    Last edited by misterdangerpants; 08-28-2012 at 09:18 AM.

  73. #73
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    soooo nice....

  74. #74
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    well done mister
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    Moving from 29er to 650B.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 650 b-rsz_2012_trek_superfly_al_elite1.jpg  

    650 b-rsz_1img_3518.jpg  

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    Yah... My next build will be 650b as well... If and when Canyon makes one...

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by ckspeed View Post
    Moving from 29er to 650B.
    Hey, just was pointed to this thread and saw your Superfly photos. How is that conversion working out for you?

    Any issues with the bottom-bracket being too low?

    Chain stays are just as long as before, so is it really worth putting the smaller wheels onto the 29er frame? Are you liking the result?

  78. #78
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    Finally sold my hard tail and picked up a 650b wheelset! I'm hoping to hit the trails tomorrow to see how she rolls. Here is a crappy cell phone pic.

    650 b-imageuploadedbytapatalk1347566974.093153.jpg

    Flow EX with Neo Moto 2.3 front and rear

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    Nice!

    You are going to love that bike. The Neo Motos 2.3 front and back are amazing. That's what I run on my Prophet. The higher stance is a little different, but you find the sweet spot pretty fast. It will roll over stuff a lot better than the 26" wheels.

    Post up your impressions! Have a great ride!
    My name is Chris and I ride a Prophet 650b with a Lefty.

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    Nice bike charmon. 160 or 140mm in the rear? From here it looks more like 140.

  81. #81
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    Let us know how that goes huh BB on that thing was already ow in it's original configuration, 12.28", with the 650Bs you should loose about 3/4", so that puts you around 11.6" Could not ride that on my trails unless I stuck to just smooth dirt paths or gravel roads.

    Quote Originally Posted by ckspeed View Post
    Moving from 29er to 650B.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Nice bike charmon. 160 or 140mm in the rear? From here it looks more like 140.
    Thanks! It is the 140 with 150 in the front. With the exception of the occasional trip to Highland, I don't really feel like I need more travel...but that won't keep me from trying. Maybe in the off season I'll pick up the longer travel bits. For now, I'm off to try it out with the big wheels!

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    I don't think I'd want any more travel, even at highland. 6" front and rear is perfect there, and 650b plus 140 will be pretty darned close.

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    Very recently I got this and a bunch of shocks for both 140 and 160mm setups including an extra 8.5"/2.5" RP23. I am going to build it as a 140mm 650b initially but I am going to keep the coiler for some rougher fun.


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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Very recently I got this and a bunch of shocks for both 140 and 160mm setups including an extra 8.5"/2.5" RP23. I am going to build it as a 140mm 650b initially but I am going to keep the coiler for some rougher fun.

    Nice! I like that color a lot.

    Sandwich, you're right. You don't really need a lot of travel at Highland, especially the way I ride it. I've been wanting to swap the rear shock on my bike for a while now and curiosity might push me toward the longer travel but even if I keep it at 140 it will still work for me.

    As for my first 650b experience, it was good. I wasn't feeling well, to the point that I cut the ride short, but the bike was great. I ran the tires at a higher pressure than I will probably end up at and there are some minor mechanical tweaks that I need to make, but all in all I am happy I made the move to the bigger wheels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonathanGennick View Post
    Hey, just was pointed to this thread and saw your Superfly photos. How is that conversion working out for you?

    Any issues with the bottom-bracket being too low?

    Chain stays are just as long as before, so is it really worth putting the smaller wheels onto the 29er frame? Are you liking the result?
    No issues with BB, my measurement came out to 11.75" with the Schwalbe Racing Ralph Tires. Since I don't right aggressively with this bike I am not concern about the BB. Chain stay is the same. The bike feels really light when padeling compare with the 29er wheel and it still roll over rocks pretty well. Guessing that 1/2 weight savings of the 650B wheel/tire sets counts for something. I like the setting because of my height, 5'3". When looking at it with the 650B the bike don't look huge like when the 29er wheels still on.
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    BB with this setup as measured is 11.75" which is very good. Better than the 2013 Trek 4000 series (11.69"). I had it out once and it roll over gravels pretty good. not planing to ride with all mountain trail. Like you said, "just smooth dirt paths or gravel roads". I have an AM for different trails.

    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    Let us know how that goes huh BB on that thing was already ow in it's original configuration, 12.28", with the 650Bs you should loose about 3/4", so that puts you around 11.6" Could not ride that on my trails unless I stuck to just smooth dirt paths or gravel roads.
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  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by StiHacka View Post
    Very recently I got this and a bunch of shocks for both 140 and 160mm setups including an extra 8.5"/2.5" RP23. I am going to build it as a 140mm 650b initially but I am going to keep the coiler for some rougher fun.

    StiHacka, you are a 650b maniac! That is a sweet looking bike. I am back in the saddle and in good health, so when are we riding again?
    My name is Chris and I ride a Prophet 650b with a Lefty.

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    Oh, OK, well then that's perfect, especially at your height I can totally understand. Still, let us know how it goes with this setup. If you want to get the absolute best IMHO, try running a 29er upfront to take full advantage of the roll over ability and the 650B rear

    Quote Originally Posted by ckspeed View Post
    BB with this setup as measured is 11.75" which is very good. Better than the 2013 Trek 4000 series (11.69"). I had it out once and it roll over gravels pretty good. not planing to ride with all mountain trail. Like you said, "just smooth dirt paths or gravel roads". I have an AM for different trails.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

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    Good job!

    Doug @ assabetbicycles.com in Hudson has a KHS 650b bike in stock so if you want to see and test what the hype is about, visit his bike store. He is a very nice guy.

    www.assabetbicycles.com

  91. #91
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    So the main argument for 650B is that it rolls better than a 26" but is more nimble than a 29". That argument can go the other way as well. It is less nimble than a 26" but doesn't roll as well as a 29".

    Personally, I think the big push for 650B is mostly from a few small bike manufactures trying to carve out a nitch for themselves.

    If I were to xc race I would probably ride a 29". But for my everyday ride I don't care about being the fastest and just want to have as much fun as possible so I will be sticking with the lighter, stronger, and more nimble 26".


    The engineers I spoke to at Kona, Specialized and Trek (three brands that are not showing off 27.5-inch models at this show) all gave me the same general answer: that (and I’m paraphrasing here) they’d built and tested 27.5-inch bikes and their testers came back lukewarm on the concept. The wheels did roll over rocks more easily than 26ers and, yeah, they do give a bike a more playful and nimble feel than a larger, 29er wheel, but they also aren’t as outright fun as either wheel size. In short, testers preferred the very nimble 26er wheel or the very stable 29er wheel. 650B/27.5 was just sort of…blah

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodsguy View Post
    So the main argument for 650B is that it rolls better than a 26" but is more nimble than a 29". That argument can go the other way as well. It is less nimble than a 26" but doesn't roll as well as a 29".

    Personally, I think the big push for 650B is mostly from a few small bike manufactures trying to carve out a nitch for themselves.

    If I were to xc race I would probably ride a 29". But for my everyday ride I don't care about being the fastest and just want to have as much fun as possible so I will be sticking with the lighter, stronger, and more nimble 26".
    Analysis paralysis. Ride it first, make your opinion second. A vast majority of people who had tried it never went back to 26" (based on the feedback I have seen in the 650b forum so far) - and that includes me. Small companies do what they do best - satisfy hunger for new products that big ones are too slow / too lazy to offer.

    Racers on 650b wheels won the XC world cup, the XC world championship and two silver Olympic medals this year. Why would they run the worst of both worlds and give their opponents an obvious stupid advantage?

    About that Kona/Spesh/Trek engineers: do you really expect companies to praise a new product that they have no offering for yet that will likely cost them some sales? If so, wow!

  93. #93
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    I don't know. Most of the bikes are 26" converts done by individuals. The 650b platform offers a higher BB and more travel. It's not the answer for everyone but Niño Schurter likes it.
    My name is Chris and I ride a Prophet 650b with a Lefty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodsguy View Post
    So the main argument for 650B is that it rolls better than a 26" but is more nimble than a 29". That argument can go the other way as well. It is less nimble than a 26" but doesn't roll as well as a 29".

    Personally, I think the big push for 650B is mostly from a few small bike manufactures trying to carve out a nitch for themselves.

    If I were to xc race I would probably ride a 29". But for my everyday ride I don't care about being the fastest and just want to have as much fun as possible so I will be sticking with the lighter, stronger, and more nimble 26".
    I have to agree with virtually everybody else here. 650b wheels offer an improvement over 26" wheels but don't come with the geometric compromises of 29" wheels. Having ridden both 29" wheels, 26" wheels, and 650b wheels, I've come to the conclusion that my bike is faster than a 26, easier to handle than a 29, gets more traction in virtually every situation than a 26, and has less fit issues than a 29. This is a converted bike (the rush) that only has 4.3" of travel. It is perfect on our east coast trails, where the 29" wheels flew through straight and rough and rocky sections, but couldn't keep up on anything twisty. I couldn't find a bike that offered me wheelbase options necessary for our east coast trails with 29" wheels. If I could, there's no doubt in my mind that I'd be on a 29er.

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    Yea, I guess I would have to ride one to make a fair judgement. I have ridden a 29" fs bike and didn't really notice much better rolling or traction but did notice how difficult it was to handle. It felt like a road bike. And I have ridden with really fast people on 29" that were on my wheel until it got really twisty.

    But all this is a waste of time for me since I just got a new bike (to me. Its basically new since the previous owners didn't ride it) and I'm not planning on getting another bike until it breaks (which will be several years since my last bike was a 2005).

  96. #96
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    and yet all these disadvantages you guys say 29ers have I have not experienced...more traction, climbs better, climbs easier, more stable on tight switchbacks so easier to clean, more stable going down, rolls over everything so much better.

    I'm really wondering how tall most of the people are who notice all these drawbacks? Definitely not those 6'>
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    more stable on tight switchbacks so easier to clean,


    really? My 29er was like towing a trailer. Shaving an inch off the chainstay helped. Switching to smaller wheels solved it. On the trails that I ride, 29er FS bikes were not as good as my current 650b bike. The 29er HT came close, but it was a hardtail.

    I'm 5'11" and I had to run a drop stem with my riser bars. I wanted a new fork but couldn't due to stem compatibility issues. I've said it before and I'll say it again, 650b just solves a bunch of what's wrong with 29ers. If your trails are straight, go for it. I personally would love to try a DH 29er. I think it would be an ideal tool for the job.

  98. #98
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    And hence the saying, "Opinions are like *******, if everyone didn't have one the world would be one constipated place" I'd never even seen a switchback up until I got my 1st 29er and then made a trip to CO 1 month later. When I got to my 1st one it was a very tight DH one with drop off to the outside and I easily stalled the bike and went slowly around it, no fuss, no muss. Some people are just weak and unable to man-handle around a bike, despite their size

    If everyone like everything the same there'd be only 1 car in the world, 1 flavour of ice cream, 1 style of jeans, 1 bike, etc., etc.........
    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich View Post
    really? My 29er was like towing a trailer. Shaving an inch off the chainstay helped. Switching to smaller wheels solved it. On the trails that I ride, 29er FS bikes were not as good as my current 650b bike. The 29er HT came close, but it was a hardtail.

    I'm 5'11" and I had to run a drop stem with my riser bars. I wanted a new fork but couldn't due to stem compatibility issues. I've said it before and I'll say it again, 650b just solves a bunch of what's wrong with 29ers. If your trails are straight, go for it. I personally would love to try a DH 29er. I think it would be an ideal tool for the job.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

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    Okay, try the same switchback going up with a 29er and a 26er. The difference is pretty big. And don't stop there, link 5 or 6 or seven in a row. You know what, link them up with 15 feet of pedaling in between. Ride the same section with a 26 and a 29er and then tell me which works better. Which allows you to A) carry and B) regain speed more easily.

    Squeezing the brakes while you roll down a steep switchback isn't really indicative of what the limitations and capabilities of a bike are.

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    Well, life's not all about switchbacks but yeah I'm sure a 26" bike will wipp around those things far easier than a 29'r. I test rode a Rocky 29'r MSL? at the Great Brook Farm Nemba event. In that first techy section there are what I would call some switchbacks and that thing went around those better than my 650B converted Prophet with a 69 degree HA. Now the Rocky is a 100mm XC bike so I would expect it to turn well but other than the great turning I didn't care for it and honesty maybe it was the tires or shock setup but it didn't climb all that great (not as good as a 130mm Spec. 29'r I had for 3 days) and for me 100mm travel is to little and was harsh even with 29" wheels. I then briefly rode the Pivot Mach 5.7 26" and jeez was that thing playful and fun to ride. Felt like a toy compared to my Prophet. Give it to me in 650B please and carbon.

    Every tire size has it's pros and cons but so many people seem to want confirmation they bought/have the right size wheel and are willing to argue over it. I'm happy to have all these options and will have one of each size at some point I know. Right now I'm really into the 650B size but I'll tell you that 130mm Specialized FSR 29'r test bike I had for 3 days was AMAZING for rolling, climbing and clearing things I just can't on the Prophet. A point and shoot bike over just about anything, very comfy to ride but playful it was not and just felt big despite being a medium size for my 6' frame. It surely did open my eyes to some 29'r benefits and why so many people love them.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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