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  1. #1
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    Quad XM bearing longevity (or lack thereof)

    Had an annoying creak on my 2011 Mount Vision XM8 during yesterday's ride and on inspection discovered that one of the lower link's drive side (KPA5X) bearings is shot (seized to the point where you can't turn it using your fingers). Others seem to be ok to varying degrees, but most are NOT smooth. The Y-link's upper KPA6X bearing is on its way out, too. It's going to take me a while to get a replacement set since I don't live close to a Marin dealer, so thinking of just buying a set of Enduro Max bearings from RWC. As a stopgap, I popped the rubber seals on all the bearings, flushed with penetrating oil and repacked with grease. The creak is gone (not for long I suspect though)

    I've had this frame for less than a year and the bearings already need replacement. My 2009 Mount Vision 5.8 went more than 2.5 years on its original set (all bearings were absolutely fine when I sold it, so maybe they lived even more than that). Same riding conditions. I don't pressure wash.

    Any other Quad XM owners with bearing trouble this soon?

  2. #2
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    My brothers Attack trail (2010 vintage) had the same issue as well, he needed all the bearing s replaced, so I don't think it is just an issue with just the XM's. In saying that, I've had mine for 8 months and no issues so far. Given that it is quite dry where you are, I'm surprised you are having a problem already, I though wet weather would have been a bearing killer.
    I have heard of people filling waterproof grease under the black bearing covers to help keep any nasties out for longer.
    At least Marin should be able to replace the bearings under warranty, assuming they will back up the "lifetime" bit.
    I don't crash, I just have slightly uncontrolled dismounts!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiplague View Post
    My brothers Attack trail (2010 vintage) had the same issue as well, he needed all the bearing s replaced, so I don't think it is just an issue with just the XM's. In saying that, I've had mine for 8 months and no issues so far. Given that it is quite dry where you are, I'm surprised you are having a problem already, I though wet weather would have been a bearing killer.
    I have heard of people filling waterproof grease under the black bearing covers to help keep any nasties out for longer.
    At least Marin should be able to replace the bearings under warranty, assuming they will back up the "lifetime" bit.
    The first several months of ownership I have used the bike in the UK, so the wet British summer might have been the culprit, but I have used my 2009 MV for a full year there, too, without any bearing issues. It's just strange to have bearing problems so quick compared to the old bike.

    I did put some silicone grease under the bearing caps as per Marin's service manual. I think I'll be ordering a bearing set from RWC since there are no Marin dealers in Egypt.

  4. #4
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    Hmorsi, sorry to read about your bearing issues but I don't think all that unusual really. At least from the many threads I've read on the Quad Link it seems like there have been many what seem to be premature bearing failures. Of course this is the internet where you will read plenty of complaints however the issue seems to have cropped up enough to say it's something that needs to be watched very carefully.

    If it works out ok I'll be picking up an almost new 2011 Attack Trail frame very soon (and convert to 650B). Bet your life I'll be pulling everything apart and carefully checking and re-packing all the bearings and pivots before I spin a pedal. Since the bearings don't rotate much I'd say a grease with a high moly content would be good to use (can sustain huge psi pressures) but it tends to be nasty black stuff that will stain white frames if you're not careful.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Hmorsi, sorry to read about your bearing issues but I don't think all that unusual really. At least from the many threads I've read on the Quad Link it seems like there have been many what seem to be premature bearing failures. Of course this is the internet where you will read plenty of complaints however the issue seems to have cropped up enough to say it's something that needs to be watched very carefully.

    If it works out ok I'll be picking up an almost new 2011 Attack Trail frame very soon (and convert to 650B). Bet your life I'll be pulling everything apart and carefully checking and re-packing all the bearings and pivots before I spin a pedal. Since the bearings don't rotate much I'd say a grease with a high moly content would be good to use (can sustain huge psi pressures) but it tends to be nasty black stuff that will stain white frames if you're not careful.
    Yeah, I guess my point of direct reference was my 2009 frame since it is pretty much the same frame and has seen more or less the same riding conditions. Not sure if the bearings used in the 2011 frames are of lesser quality than 2009-2010. They did switch to painted frames from anodized on the 2009-2010 Mount Visions (to save production expenses?) and I LOVED the durability of the anodized finish on these frames'. Painted frames lose their finish quality way too easily. I am getting paint chips all over the Quad XM frame. If I still have this frame in a year or two I am stripping it down and having it powdercoated.

    I am very intrigued by your planned 650b conversion on that AT frame. Do let us know how it goes if your project comes to fruition.

  6. #6
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    ~4 years on older 2008 MV

    I've got an older 2008 Mount Vision and replaced the KP5AX bearings last year. Some of them have partially seized and I may not have noticed it until last year.

    The LBS contacted Marin and gave me some new ones under warranty. I think it is 10 years on bearings in North America. The KP5AX bearings are pretty small so I can see how quickly they will wear.

    Unable to find KP5AX bearings from Real World Cycling or the internet. They do not look like standard bearings since there is a washer attached to Quad XM bearing longevity (or lack thereof)-marin_bearing1.jpgQuad XM bearing longevity (or lack thereof)-marin_bearing2.jpgone side.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sillymonkey View Post
    I've got an older 2008 Mount Vision and replaced the KP5AX bearings last year. Some of them have partially seized and I may not have noticed it until last year.

    The LBS contacted Marin and gave me some new ones under warranty. I think it is 10 years on bearings in North America. The KP5AX bearings are pretty small so I can see how quickly they will wear.

    Unable to find KP5AX bearings from Real World Cycling or the internet. They do not look like standard bearings since there is a washer attached toone side.
    ENDURO MAX BEARINGS: ULTIMATE SUSPENSION PIVOT BEARINGS! Sixth from the bottom. They do list them as available. Now whether they're in stock or not that's a different matter.

  8. #8
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    Thanks for finding it hmorsi !!

    I was originally looking under their suspension bearing kits (Marin Suspension Pivot Bearing Kits from RWC) instead of the individual bearings.

  9. #9
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    There's a shop on ebay Uk that also sells bearings and various bearing tools. I'm pretty sure they had quad link bearings.

    They're not enduro bearings on the OEM but even so my 09 MV and WR are still smooth as . I remember Kapusta had trouble with his 09 mv as from new. So seems to be some variation in quality?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    There's a shop on ebay Uk that also sells bearings and various bearing tools. I'm pretty sure they had quad link bearings.

    They're not enduro bearings on the OEM but even so my 09 MV and WR are still smooth as . I remember Kapusta had trouble with his 09 mv as from new. So seems to be some variation in quality?
    Is it mbbearings on ebay? They seem to sell a kit for the pre-2011 Quadlink frames only. 2011 frames have one bearing at the top of the upper link (Y-link) and it is KP6AX not KP5AX like the other six bearings.

    I managed to fashion a crude bearing press that will work nicely using a socket, 2.5 inch long part of an old steer tube and a bench vice.

  11. #11
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    No it was KATEC bikes but I see they only have a listing for single pivot Mv's. They may be able to kit something up for you?

  12. #12
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    The bearing set I bought off RWC is not the correct one (and now stuck with it since I am not in the US and sending it back will probably cost as much as its price!). The KPA5 bearings are not "flanged" like the OEM ones. Otherwise they're identical. If I recall correctly, the 2009 MV used washers between the linkage and the frame (the bearings were the same but not flanged, which are the ones I bought). If I am not mistaken, the bearing flanges take the place of the washers. I wonder if I can just buy the right size washers and do the same?

    Any thoughts?

  13. #13
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    My 2011 MV is now up for the first bearing change. Fortunately I'm first owner and I did get a replacement for free. The bearings are different. Wereas the original bearings have the washer attached to the bearing, the new bearings have separate washers. I'm sure you solved this bye now. Just wanted to share my experience so far. Luckely I can let someone at work fabricate a bearing tool to press the bearings in and out.

  14. #14
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    So, like this:

    Old on top, new below. In my case the bearings in the lower link are shot. Bearings in the upper link not. Will replace them anyway just to be sure.


  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betzel View Post
    So, like this:

    Old on top, new below. In my case the bearings in the lower link are shot. Bearings in the upper link not. Will replace them anyway just to be sure.

    Thank you for this, Betzel. Very helpful! Any chance you can provide the specs for those washers if you have calipers to do the measurements? I don't live near a Marin dealer right now and want to try to source them to use the "old style" bearing set I already have.

  16. #16
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    The set is now with a co-worker to fabricate a bearingtool like in the Marin manual. So I will let you know as soon as I have the set back.

  17. #17
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    Here you go:




  18. #18
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    Thank you! This is very helpful!

  19. #19
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    No probs. Glad to be of assistance!

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  21. #21
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    Well, after two years the bearings on my bike finally died! I notice a small amount of play in the rear swing arm, so I disassembled everything to have a look at what was going on and found the inner race of all 4 main bearings (which the washer is attached to) are totally shot.

    On the plus side, the Marin dealer is sourcing some Enduro bearings from Marin USA to replace the dead KP5AX bearings. So even though I will be without my bike for a bit longer, at least it will be functional again.
    I don't crash, I just have slightly uncontrolled dismounts!

  22. #22
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    Does your dealer replace them or do you do this yourself?

  23. #23
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    I am about to do bearing replacement on my 2011 XM8 soon. It'll be a DIY job!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betzel View Post
    Does your dealer replace them or do you do this yourself?
    The dealer is doing it for me fortunately. I'm okay with a lot of maintenance on my bike, but bearing replacement is probably a bit beyond me. Well, at least the bearings on the swing arm anyway.
    I pointed out the whole "lifetime warranty" bit on the bearings and have been super nice in my dealings with them and they seem to be looking after me so far. One thing I will also likely try after I get my bike back is to replace the older style bushings in the shock eyelets with the newer polymer bushings, as the mounting hardware seems to be exceedingly tight, to the extent where I can't move or even pull out the hardware. I have read elsewhere on MTBR that this can cause some issues on the Quad link frame.
    I don't crash, I just have slightly uncontrolled dismounts!

  25. #25
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    If you don't have the tools better leave it to the lbs. I got myself a set of tools, or actually got some from a few very skilled people at my job. Now a bearing change is a piece of cake DIY job.

  26. #26
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    I just did a full bearing service on my 2011 Mount Vision XM8, and replaced the shock eyelet DU bushings while I am at it.. Here are the tools I used:

    1- 1 large flat-bladed screwdriver to remove bearing caps.
    2- 2x ratchet handles with 2x10mm sockets for the linkage's M8 "aerospace nuts".
    3- 100mm threaded rod, 2 M8 washers and 2x M8 nuts.
    4- 24MM socket to act a a receiver when pressing out the old bearings.
    5- Cheap seal/bearing driver kit. This one.
    6- Castrol white optimol T paste (alternative to SKF anti-fret paste). 100g tube for £10 off eBay.
    7- Waterproof silicone grease.

    I won't go into the details of the bearing replacement since the whole process is well documented in Marin's official 2011 QuadLink manual. It was straightforward enough save for the lone KP6AX bearing in the upper link body which I hastily pressed in and it shaved off some metal that prevented it from seating squarely on subsequent attempts. Nothing some sandpaper couldn't take care of, though.

    EDIT: Forgot to add that the KP5AX bearings I bought from RWC are not flanged like the ones that come on the 2011 MV, so I bought a pack of M8x17 washers to add to the assembly on the outside of the linkage bearing bores as it is done on the 2009 MV. Make sure to coat the washers in anti-fret paste as per the instructions in the manual.

    Quad XM bearing longevity (or lack thereof)-f2owmdal.jpg
    Quad XM bearing longevity (or lack thereof)-oyczntul.jpg
    Quad XM bearing longevity (or lack thereof)-9znnrvul.jpg
    Quad XM bearing longevity (or lack thereof)-pttp0jdl.jpg
    Quad XM bearing longevity (or lack thereof)-kjeyzzcl.jpg

  27. #27
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    Thanks for the detailed post! I did not know ebay had such affordable bearing driver/extractors. Recently changed my bearings again and resorted to using sockets to extract/install the bearings.

    I noticed Marin had switched over to Enduro KP5AX bearings and also provided the washers as well.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sillymonkey View Post
    Thanks for the detailed post! I did not know ebay had such affordable bearing driver/extractors. Recently changed my bearings again and resorted to using sockets to extract/install the bearings.

    I noticed Marin had switched over to Enduro KP5AX bearings and also provided the washers as well.
    You're welcome! The kit is not complete bearing press (the three drift handles the come with the kit are useless for this purpose), but it does come with the sizes you need for the QuadLink bearings and more. You just need to add the threaded rod, washers and socket and you have a cheap and effective DIY bearing extractor/press.

    Local LBS quoted me £65 (about $100) for a bearing and shock bushing service. I did it it for about half that in all including paying for overpriced bushings from the LBS when I ordered the wrong ones online! I would love to support my LBS but sometimes service costs are just exorbitantly high.

  29. #29
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    Yep I agree about high LBS costs. Also they may not take the time to do a good job since their mechanics are on the clock e.g. need to generate $$ of revenue per hour.

  30. #30
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    Great thread!

    I'm considering in bying new rear suspension bearings to my Marin Rift Zone 2007. By reading service and instruction manual from Marin website, it seems that the type of bearing is KP5AX. I think I found a correct model in Real World Cycling website but I want to be sure before ordering it. There is KP5A MAX so is it the same as KP5AX?

    Thanks!

  31. #31
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    Earlier in the thread hmorsi mentions the RWC KP5AX bearings do not come with washers. Thus you will need to find your own washers (measurements listed earlier in thread). I had the convenience of ordering the bearings via LBS from Marin.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by sillymonkey View Post
    Earlier in the thread hmorsi mentions the RWC KP5AX bearings do not come with washers. Thus you will need to find your own washers (measurements listed earlier in thread). I had the convenience of ordering the bearings via LBS from Marin.
    Thanks for your answer!
    I'm surprised that my local bike shop sells Marin again because few years ago they said they don't sell it anymore. That's why I asked about the bearings in this thread. Now they are going to contact Marin and hopefully I get the bearings for free!

  33. #33
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    I have a 2008 marin mount vision XC and i think the bearings are shot as creaks like mad. Can anyone advise on removing, replacing and reassembling, also parts required and where to get?

    Thanks

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by enquisiter View Post
    I have a 2008 marin mount vision XC and i think the bearings are shot as creaks like mad. Can anyone advise on removing, replacing and reassembling, also parts required and where to get?

    Thanks
    Manual for 2008 rebuild here . The quick way is to go to Marin dealer to get the bearings, otherwise you will have to find the correct washer size (info in thread) to fit the KP5AX bearings available from Real World Cycling.

    EDIT: Sorry here is the Quad2 Service Manual It is for 2011, but uses the same KP5AX bearings. I think Marin's site has an older Quad Link service guide lying around, but unable to find it.

  35. #35
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    MARIN UK Contact details

    Quote Originally Posted by sillymonkey View Post
    Manual for 2008 rebuild here . The quick way is to go to Marin dealer to get the bearings, otherwise you will have to find the correct washer size (info in thread) to fit the KP5AX bearings available from Real World Cycling.

    EDIT: Sorry here is the Quad2 Service Manual It is for 2011, but uses the same KP5AX bearings. I think Marin's site has an older Quad Link service guide lying around, but unable to find it.
    Do you know how i contact MArin UK for the parts?

  36. #36
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    I went to their site to search for bike shops that sell Marin in my country and just called them up one at a time to see if they can order the bearings for me. Sometimes the list is out of date so some dealers no longer carry Marin. Most bicycle companies will want consumers to go through a local bike shop.

  37. #37
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    Quad XC Bearing replacement process

    Can anyone tell me the process to replace the Quad XC bearings? on 2008 Marin Mount Vision Quad XC?

    Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by hmorsi View Post
    Had an annoying creak on my 2011 Mount Vision XM8 during yesterday's ride and on inspection discovered that one of the lower link's drive side (KPA5X) bearings is shot (seized to the point where you can't turn it using your fingers). Others seem to be ok to varying degrees, but most are NOT smooth. The Y-link's upper KPA6X bearing is on its way out, too. It's going to take me a while to get a replacement set since I don't live close to a Marin dealer, so thinking of just buying a set of Enduro Max bearings from RWC. As a stopgap, I popped the rubber seals on all the bearings, flushed with penetrating oil and repacked with grease. The creak is gone (not for long I suspect though)

    I've had this frame for less than a year and the bearings already need replacement. My 2009 Mount Vision 5.8 went more than 2.5 years on its original set (all bearings were absolutely fine when I sold it, so maybe they lived even more than that). Same riding conditions. I don't pressure wash.

    Any other Quad XM owners with bearing trouble this soon?

  38. #38
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    Look above, in Hmorsi's post. The 2011 service manuel. About 80% the same as the 2008 Quad link.

  39. #39
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    Just found this thread about Marin Quad servicing etc.
    I have found a 2008 quad link specific manual, similar to the 2011 as posted above but with the obvious difference being the forward link is an H bracket not a Y. It was on a pay-per download pdf site so just took screen-grabs. I forget the link but I could package them up as a zip file and send to anyone if they PM.

    Further to this, in order to service the shock (Fox RP23) I've been trying to remove the bushing at the base of the shock (the plunger end, opposite the valves etc) in order to remove the air can/sleeve and get at the seals inside.

    Not sure how it compares to later models but there's a ~41mm wide bushing (?) through which the titanium bolts go for frame attachment. This isn't the smaller bushing that sits in the shock's eyelet.
    Any idea how I can remove this? (And replace it again after servicing?)

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