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Thread: Marin 2012

  1. #1
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    Marin 2012

    29er and new suspension which looks very much like the Giant maestro.

    http://bikemagic.com/gear/marin-laun...3-0-bikes.html

    http://www.bicyclesmile.com/news/mar...e-2012-launch/

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    Doesn't look as Marin anymore
    2012, year of "sameness"
    Kona and Norco 2012 look the same, Marin and Giant 2012 look the same (even in some color options). Paint the frame black, and no one will recognize it. What a shame

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    I think the look of quad link is a problem for them. A ride similar to maestro isn't a bad thing for some. My Trance X is not as progressive but the suspension lacks character.

    Oh well,I will be keeping an eye out for some cheap MV XM8 frames coming on to the market.

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    Wow, gotta say I'm dissapointed that they changed the look. That's what drew me in and I stayed for the awesomeness of the ride. Had they looked that way when I was picking out my XM8 I would have completely overlooked them.

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    I like it.....i to am not necessarily impressed with the looks but it not bad.

    realistically they have fixed some real problems.water bottle cage in a real location,stiffer rear triangle that wont flex near as much and better suspension at end of stroke.

    these changes will actually KEEP me buying Marin bikes.i look forward to riding and getting one.
    2009 Marin Mount Vision 5.7....a great everything bike...

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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    I think the look of quad link is a problem for them
    Yes, there are people who dislike Marins because of its look with a swingarm.
    I guess it's not only the look problem. Swingarm frames, as I understand, are harder to manufacture, so they cost more.To keep rear end stiff enough, they have to be heavier compared to other sussers with common rear triangle.

    But ... is mountainbike just it? Why do designers bother to make new frame color schemes every year? Many people choose the bike not for it effectiveness, but for its' look.
    Quad 2 Marins were original, unique in some way. They were recognizeable. And now ... close to Giant even in colors

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    Cost of the mfg for quad link could be a factor.

    A Fs 29er may also have forced their hand? Current design is too active to be any advantage on a 29er and may not be rigid enough for the big wheel. My Giant AX1 29er works well with a less active and less progressive set up . It lets the bigger wheels share the suspension duties while keeping a taught efficient suspension.

    I think the 2011 quad link Rift zone frame was about 5.5lbs which is realistic. Might be able to shave 1/2 lb with the Quad 3? I have no problem with the stiffness of the current system but my frames are a bit on the hefty side. AT and XM both have digressive leverage rate at the end of the stroke.So they didn't need to change design to make the XM8 less progressive. Personally I think the XM looks great so I can't understand the change. It has identcal geo to latest 5 spot. Just marginally more active and more progressive than the DW on the 5- spot but with better mid range and anti squat. It was 650B capable to. Hence, I will be snapping one up when the price falls.

    Closeups of the 29er shows tire clearance is incredibly tight. And that's a x-king 2.2 which is a small volume tire. Quad link 2 allowed a short chainstay. Giant maestro bikes all have relatively long chainstays. My Trance X is a hand full in the loose as the long chainstays drives the front wheel in to corners. My current WR and MV geo numbers are spot on and much prefer the handling over My trance X. Uk fans may also cry foul as they loved the mud clearance of the old frames.
    Last edited by gvs_nz; 07-28-2011 at 05:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    I think the 2011 quad link Rift zone frame was about 5.5lbs which is realistic
    Considering '11 Rift Zone, sometimes I think they shaved too much from the swingarm. Compared to MV, Rift Zone's rear end feels noticeably flexier. But I guess it's reasonable - about 600 g weight difference comes at a certain price. Still Giant's Anthem X is lighter, maybe 5.5 lbs was that realistic limit for a lightweight Quad II frame and that held the engineers from creating a lighter one
    But yeah, 2011 was a real perfection for Quad II bikes. Gonna miss them

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    Looks like the modular drop outs are gone. I have never noticed any flex in the rear end of my Mt Vision. Escpecially with the 12mm TA conversion. If they kept the general charateristics of the quad link, but actually get to use the last bit of travel and easier acess to the shock I would be stoked. Although, I am NOT going move on from my current bike for some time now. I gotta say I love the way it rides.

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    Yeah, they look remarkably like Giants now, which isn't a bad thing based on the great reviews I read of Giants. Sounds like the suspension characteristics were changed a bit as well. Oh well. I do enjoy people looking at the AT and saying, "damn, that's a stout bike." There's nothing out there that looks like my AT, not even close.

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    Yeh I should call my "stout bike" [Wolf ridge] the Mojo leveller. They seem to want to target my 90's downhill looking bike as race practise. Unfortunately for them I'm as good a climber as they are and this thing literally mows them down on sweeping singletrack and down hills. I actually ran over one guys leg the other day that crashed in front of me.

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    Well, here's to hoping for another good Marin warranty return!!!! Maybe the next warranty return will be a 2012 model.

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    I also loved the unique looks of the Marin. If this new design keeps the ride quality while reducing weight and price I will be thrilled. A bit bummed that seat-tube angles are a degree shallower but otherwise I'm excited to have a new Mount Vision and Rift Zone 29er next year. I might have to keep the 2011 Mount Vision XM9 I currently have though because I consider it the most beautiful riding and looking bike I have owned to date.

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    They've done it cause it converts into a 29er easier I've just gotten a second hand Whyte E5 basically a Marin with lighter stuff and it rides great, super plush and super stable spinning up hills, easy to work on pivots aswell.

    I never liked the look of the shock cage and never wanted a marin cause of it, despite them being cheap and slack angles but the E5's look has grown on me.

    I'll keep my eyes open in a year or 2 for a cheap 2011 Marin Quad2 I think.

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    Your right it is Meastro, the next best suspension system I've ridden, Quad 2 and Quad 3 are both VPP's so it might be okay, the huge mud clearance is ofcourse gone and the no chain stays to rattle the chain on

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    Quote Originally Posted by ROG30Y View Post
    I like it.....i to am not necessarily impressed with the looks but it not bad.

    realistically they have fixed some real problems.water bottle cage in a real location,stiffer rear triangle that wont flex near as much and better suspension at end of stroke.

    these changes will actually KEEP me buying Marin bikes.i look forward to riding and getting one.
    Although i agree in that everything looks the same (not good) These above points are very true. If you draw a line from the rear axle (on the older bikes) to a point in between the two main pivots and compare to the new design you will find that it is way wider in the new design and therefore will produce far less flex.

    I have an attack trail and love it but yeah the shop i work in no longer deals with marin because most people dont seem to feel the way i do. Marin strength for me is the geometry....

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    Yeah I've only ridden 2 Marins, Quad 1 and Quad 2 both had terrible rear wheel steering effect, so this is the same through out I didn't buy either of them, thankfully the Whyte E5 with the carbon swing arm and weird bolt through kinda madness is really stiff.

    I was hoping they'd sorted the Marins out to, but guess not

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turveyd View Post
    Your right it is Meastro, the next best suspension system I've ridden, Quad 2 and Quad 3 are both VPP's so it might be okay, the huge mud clearance is ofcourse gone and the no chain stays to rattle the chain on
    Yep my Maestro bikes have the worst chain slap going. The low slung front pivot area gets shot gunned by the chain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gson View Post
    Although i agree in that everything looks the same (not good) These above points are very true. If you draw a line from the rear axle (on the older bikes) to a point in between the two main pivots and compare to the new design you will find that it is way wider in the new design and therefore will produce far less flex.

    I have an attack trail and love it but yeah the shop i work in no longer deals with marin because most people dont seem to feel the way i do. Marin strength for me is the geometry....
    I agree Marin geometry is always spot on. Tighter rear end should be stiffer. Not always the case e.g, Intense Tracer. I feel my Trance X and Anthem X 29er are no stiffer than my MV or WR. If anything, my 09 Trance X has flex in the front end and my Anthem X1 29er has more rear end flex. The front end flex of the Trance X is the most noticeable to handling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turveyd View Post
    Yeah I've only ridden 2 Marins, Quad 1 and Quad 2 both had terrible rear wheel steering effect, so this is the same through out I didn't buy either of them, thankfully the Whyte E5 with the carbon swing arm and weird bolt through kinda madness is really stiff.

    I was hoping they'd sorted the Marins out to, but guess not
    You must have very rocky, boggy or sandy terrain. I'm only 160 lbs but do ride some sandy trails and can't notice much rear end flex on my 09 MV and WR.

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    One of the things most striking when seeing my maestro bikes alongside my Quad 2 bikes is that Giant have minimalist build approach down to pat. They are very under built looking in comparison.They seem to hold up though and I've only broken 1 pivot bolt on my Trance X. But it looks frail compare to my MV.
    My MV's anodised finish looks like new after 2 years and overall it has a much more expensive quality look about it.

    The new quad 3 frames look "tinny" even compared to Maestro frames.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    You must have very rocky, boggy or sandy terrain. I'm only 160 lbs but do ride some sandy trails and can't notice much rear end flex on my 09 MV and WR.
    I'm just much much heavier, which does not help, 235ish.

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    Turveyd....i run into the rear flex issues with my 09 bike.enough that it rubs the rotor on hard turns.with propedal on its much stiffer but loose the plushness of the rear.

    i cant wait to ride one of the new ones.if i like it im changing over.

    oh btw i only weigh 175
    2009 Marin Mount Vision 5.7....a great everything bike...

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    You mean the drop out or the axle may be flexing. Brake and wheel is isolated from the frame. Maxle drop outs will fix any QR axle and QR drop out flex.
    Last edited by gvs_nz; 09-01-2011 at 01:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ROG30Y View Post
    Turveyd....i run into the rear flex issues with my 09 bike.enough that it rubs the rotor on hard turns.with propedal on its much stiffer but loose the plushness of the rear.

    i cant wait to ride one of the new ones.if i like it im changing over.

    oh btw i only weigh 175
    Ahhhh thats the reason for the big gripper on my Whyte, if there is any rear flex the gripper keeps the disk / wheel from moving seperately, not the ease of locating as they say which lets face it is no different.

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    I would love the maxle setup to see how it helps but my wheelset if fairly new and i dont want to spend anymore money....
    2009 Marin Mount Vision 5.7....a great everything bike...

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    Some pics from Eurobike .
    Attack trail survives another year.

    Eurobike 2011: Marin's 2012 Mountain Bikes - BikeRadar
    Last edited by gvs_nz; 09-05-2011 at 03:01 PM.

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    I'd like to have the 80's retro paint job on mine. I dig the simplicity since my bike is anything but simple.

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    Hey All,

    Mike here (rider for Marin)

    You might have noticed that the 2012 lineup is online now: Marin 2012 Line

    I did a long-ish post about what all is new, as well as a look at all the US full suspension models coming out in 2012. Here's that article.

    Feel free to ask me any questions - here or on the blog. I'll do my best to get you quick and accurate answers!
    blogging about bikes, cycling industry, racing, and adventures at mikegore.net

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    Thanks Mike. You must be happy they've dropped a bit of weight with the carbon frames. The carbon bikes look nice. Did you drop the ball on the carbon frames. They've taken them off their website.

    Pity they ruined the Mt Vision. That's ugly compared to 2011. Wheelbase and front centre have gone up quite a bit too. Whyte did similar with their 146.

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    Hey GVS,

    The carbon frames are still on the US website - if you're looking at it from abroad, you might see differences in what is available. I know that the UK line won't be including many of the carbon models.
    blogging about bikes, cycling industry, racing, and adventures at mikegore.net

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    Whyte E5 only managed 200miles area before rear end steer is becoming an issue, hoping it's just 2 bolts which need a tweak but likely new bearings and they likely won't take my 230lbs so constant replacing.

    It was rock solid 200miles ago.

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    good i didnt really want to see the attack trail change. They do however need to get rid of the stupid as **** replaceable rear drop outs that seems to be fashionable nowadays. Breaking force torquing one direction and pedaling the other (on break mount side). Before long they ovalise the chain ring bolt holes on the swing arm. I keep snapping maxles just because of the flex. No matter how diligently you try to keep them tight it will happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbgore View Post
    Hey GVS,

    The carbon frames are still on the US website - if you're looking at it from abroad, you might see differences in what is available. I know that the UK line won't be including many of the carbon models.

    Mike did you ever try a 650B wheel in the rear of your Rift Zone XC8. I think they would be a great race combo now that 2011 Rift Zone frames will be in the clearance bin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Turveyd View Post
    Whyte E5 only managed 200miles area before rear end steer is becoming an issue, hoping it's just 2 bolts which need a tweak but likely new bearings and they likely won't take my 230lbs so constant replacing.

    It was rock solid 200miles ago.
    See you should have got a Marin.

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    What a shame. The original Marin Quadlink swing arm design was unique, strong, and worked very well. The frame had a signature unmistakable look. Now it's just another bike . I am very disappointed in a brand that I loved.

    I am sure the new (which is not really "new") suspension design still works good enough, but now their bikes have no soul.

    I am glad they kept the old design for the Quad Trail and Quad DH, though.

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    When will the carbon rift zone 29er be available???

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    No Attack Trail in UK though. Not burly enough terrain I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbgore View Post
    Hey All,

    Mike here (rider for Marin)

    You might have noticed that the 2012 lineup is online now: Marin 2012 Line

    I did a long-ish post about what all is new, as well as a look at all the US full suspension models coming out in 2012. Here's that article.

    Feel free to ask me any questions - here or on the blog. I'll do my best to get you quick and accurate answers!
    will the Pine Mountain be available as "frame only"?

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    2012 XM8 doesn't look quite so bad in this photo. XM7 in the background is possibly nicer?I like the new geometry.Possibly adding stability in the mix to compete with 29er trail bikes?
    MARIN NEWS & REVIEWS
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Marin 2012-dsc_0019.jpg  

    Last edited by gvs_nz; 09-08-2011 at 02:40 AM.

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    I can post the leverage ratio profiles of the new Rift Zone 29er compared to the Giant Ax 29er if anyone has a bent towards suspension geekness.Very progressive. Surprising for a 29er. I thought they may have gone for a more linear design approach and let the big wheels do a bit more of the suspension duties, Still it will be a very efficient technical climber . It should have that, signature Marin Xc bike, very active initial travel and squeeze at the end of the travel.
    Last edited by gvs_nz; 09-08-2011 at 02:46 AM.

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    @GVS - Haven't tried putting a 650b wheel on my rift zone. I'm not totally sure it would work though, because of the wishbone-style front link. It's much more thin and tapered in the rear than the previous 120mm mount vision frame, so I think you might encounter tire rub if you tried it with a tire any bigger than a 2.0

    Also, the bikes look way cooler in person, which is always the case.

    @hmorsi - hey now! the product team poured their soul into these bikes! They may not have the unmistakable look, but the benefits in terms of lighter weight and improved suspension performance makes this rig so much more than 'just another bike.' Ride one, and let me know what you think.
    blogging about bikes, cycling industry, racing, and adventures at mikegore.net

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    Thanks Mike. It's interesting to see how Quad 3 looks so different to Quad 2 but can be tuned to be similar to XC Quad 2 performance. I like how my 09 Mount Vision rides and I also like how my AX 1 29er rides. Two different riding platforms.To the eye the AX 29er and the Rift Zone 29er systems now look similar but will ride very differently. Some will always like one in preference to the other.

    The rift Zone 29er is certainly a nice looking package. One thing you can count on ,the geometry will always be spot on for a great handling bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbgore View Post
    @hmorsi - hey now! the product team poured their soul into these bikes! They may not have the unmistakable look, but the benefits in terms of lighter weight and improved suspension performance makes this rig so much more than 'just another bike.' Ride one, and let me know what you think.
    I am sure a lot of hard work goes into developing new bikes, and I've always had respect for Marin and what they bring to the market. I just cannot help but feel that the Mount Vision lost a bit (maybe a lot!) of what made it distinctly a Marin. I absolutely love the way my 09 MV handles, and if the new ones improve on this kind of performance and quality, then I am not complaining! BUT, the distinctive aesthetics and style (which are very subjective factors, admittedly) do make up a significant part of that "soul" thing. Some machines just have a certain character, others are bland and insipid. The Quad Link 2 had that character that the Quad link 3, in my very humble opinion, kind of lost.

    I do look forward to trying one out if given the chance, though. My next ride will probably be a 2012 Quad Trail.

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    @GVS - It's going to be a blast on the trails, and ready to race too. Definitely a great trail/race bike that is more than capable at both.

    @Hmorsi - totally understand. The swoopy, distinctive design of QL 2 bikes look great and make me proud to ride a Marin. These new bikes certainly are a bit more 'conventional' looking.
    blogging about bikes, cycling industry, racing, and adventures at mikegore.net

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    pine mountain, frame only?

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    Not sure- I'll check at IB for ya, everyone is crazy busy getting prepared!
    blogging about bikes, cycling industry, racing, and adventures at mikegore.net

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbgore View Post
    @GVS - It's going to be a blast on the trails, and ready to race too. Definitely a great trail/race bike that is more than capable at both.

    .
    With the use of pro pedal I would say that it would be very versatile trail/race bike. I suspect they have tailored it to suit the Adaptive logic of 2012 rear shocks.Race mode probably designed to have pro pedal on. Unlike previous models, 2012 Pro pedal should have very little influence on compression damping once it blows off. Trail mode with pro pedal off to make full use of the progressive nature of the set up.

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    Anyone knows if Marin still offers a 10-year warranty on the bearings for the 2012 models?

    Edit: Nevermind, found the information here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz View Post
    One of the things most striking when seeing my maestro bikes alongside my Quad 2 bikes is that Giant have minimalist build approach down to pat. They are very under built looking in comparison.They seem to hold up though and I've only broken 1 pivot bolt on my Trance X. But it looks frail compare to my MV.
    My MV's anodised finish looks like new after 2 years and overall it has a much more expensive quality look about it.

    The new quad 3 frames look "tinny" even compared to Maestro frames.
    My thoughts exactly. I took my 09 Mount Vision to the Alps this summer and used it on lift-assisted rides on trails where pretty much everyone else had a full-face helmet and bikes with 7+inches of travel. A week of riding in nasty conditions: constant rain and mucky and super technical trails. My buddies and I were all on trail/all mountain bikes. The post-trip crash tally included:

    - A broken Scott Ransom (one of the titanium pivot bolts sheared in half)
    - An 8 month old Trek EX 8 with creaky bearings.
    - A decommissioned Specialized Enduro.
    - A broken rear triangle on a Scott Spark (the lightest bike in the group)
    - A *brand new* 2011 Kona Abracadabra with a frame that looked like someone roughly ground with sandpaper.

    I am one of the more aggressive riders in the group, and My MV emerged unscathed, save for an adjustable seatpost that needed service after a week of riding in very wet conditions. The frame finish is still like new, and the bearings silky smooth (I have seen reports of bad bearings on this forum but not sure if these are lemons or just a matter of properly torquing the pivot bolts)



    I still believe that while the 2012 Mount Visions are not necessarily a step backward for Marin, they are certainly not a step forward. Yet, I hope to be proven wrong.
    Last edited by hmorsi; 09-10-2011 at 05:19 AM.

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