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  1. #1
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    650b MV '10. Half way there.

    DH, climbing and technical sections are improved. No more tuck sensation in fast, tight turns.
    I did flip the stem and added shock psi in an attempt at keeping the front end down on the steep climbs.

    My window for full 650b conversion has been greatly reduced, due to the ultra-lite front end.
    I like the current geometry, but I can't recommend this set-up unless you're in like Florida.

    Got a P35 w/OE hub built($148). inet parts and LBS build. I went with a Pacenti Neo-moto tire.

    Only a few rides so far. A 29'er buddy stated how much better it feels. He doesn't feel the need to get right back on his bike when he forces me to ride his demos and new 29'er. lol
    FYI, never ride a 29'er right after you make a 26" purchase. I'll see if this holds true for a 650b as well.

  2. #2
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    I tried a 29er on the front of my 09 MV and a fox F29 100. As far as handling goes it actually felt better than with a 140 fork on[ pity it's only 100mm travel though]. If I'd sleeved the F29 down to 80 mm travel it would have been similar crown to ground height as 26er with F120 and would give that lazy carving feel of a 29er front end. Similar to my Wolf Ridge.

    My biggest rear tire[ mich wild rock'r 2.25] is only 12mm less dia than a Neo moto so I didn't see any point in trying a 650b in the rear. If I let all the air out of the shock the Wild rock'r actually rubs the seat stay but I've never had it touch riding.

    A 29er fits in the rear and you can ride it gently with the pressure up around 250psi to limit the travel of the shock. You get about 50mm of rear wheel travel before the wheel hits the seat stay. So all you need to do is make 25mm drop out extensions for the bolt on dropouts and you've got yourself a 29er.With the F29 100 and the 29er rear, the BB height is about 340mm which is about the same as the Turner Sultan[ similar head angle and frame weight as well].
    There's a good project for someone. Eventually I will get round to it. But I've already got two 29ers.
    Last edited by gvs_nz; 03-12-2011 at 10:37 PM.

  3. #3
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    I got the rear done, so I'm full 650b now.

    Good info. from the Kiwi. OEM is only a starting point. Innit mate?
    Wheelbase is on my mind now. My MV wheelbase is about 3.5" shorter than a GF Rumblefish.
    Custom extended drop-outs and increased fork crown off-set should deliver more of the 29'r vibe I'm seeking.
    Can I change-out my F-Series fork crown?

  4. #4
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    I've got a gary fisher F120 with G2 offset on my MV, but I think it gives less than 10mm increase in wheelbase. Long way to 3.5".

    Does the 650B front wheel make the front less nervous pushing it in to loose corners? I might try it if it does. It's not much increase in dia over a big 26" tire though

    That's the one impression I get with a 29er over a 26er. You actually don't need the extra wheelbase as the big wheel is so forgiving and you can push so much harder in to corners. Same with heading down the hill.

    I've got my Trance set up as a 69er now with the F29 100 fork and I think I will keep it that way. Looking at the 650b or full 29er conversion for the MV.
    my '11 trance X 96er

  5. #5
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    [QUOTE=socalscott]I got the rear done, so I'm full 650b now.

    What's it handle like compared to full 26er and just 650b on the front? I'd like to do mine if it's any good.
    Last edited by gvs_nz; 04-21-2011 at 01:02 PM.

  6. #6
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    Glad to have a tinkering comrade.

    Yeah, I was hoping more like 15mm for the off-set. I was considering something like 15mm/25mm split.
    Hmm, just sticking +25mm hangers out back will cause a fuss for the Quad specs., but to what degree is the question.
    I can see custom hangers including a higher axle position. This would slacken HA whilst shifting weight bias back again to some degree. Grrr...Quad-Link alchemy.
    Rider position, shock/fork pressures, weight bias to the front tire.
    Well, I can see better climbing, increased stability and front tire traction. Is it enough for handling changes? Is it too much for the Quad system?

    The 650b does offer more confidence in fast and loose turns. Holds a line better on steep trail walls too. I can't say how much better than your big 26's though.

    Depending on hanger fabrication costs I can see 650b + stretched hangers being a worthy gamble. Cost:Benefit, that's the rub. I think I'll see what our community college CNC machinist class can do me for. They just may like a little project like this. Wish me luck.

  7. #7
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    My WR gets it's extra travel from longer stays.Shock is identical and linkage looks identical? Just needs higher shock pressure due to different ratio.

    The longer stays will also help if you do move your weight back. I've used 140 fork/'26r and F29 100 fork/ 29er fronts which lift and slacken but had to much rear weight shift. With the shorter stays and slack seat angle impacts rear suspension to much for my liking. The setups same on my Trance with it's longer stays and maestro rear end was better.
    Others like over tall fork setups but having experienced bikes designed with slacker angles and those just modified with tall forks the OEM slacker bike are streets ahead in a balanced ride.

    If I made up some longer dropouts or adapters I would hang a 140mm fork/26er or 650b on the front since you will increase the travel at the back. Other option is full 29er but I would probably do as you suggest and lower the rear end as BB height will be huge as a 29er.
    Last edited by gvs_nz; 04-21-2011 at 04:52 PM.

  8. #8
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    That's right, more travel. Hold on, so there might be 120mm of net travel. lol

    I think both ends would need higher air pressure, yes. Moving the axle back will equate to more weight to the forks and of course the leverage out back for the shock.

    I'd like having the option of going to 29" out back if I chose to grab a G2 F29 100mm fork. I'd likely only go with 29 up front, as 650b out back would keep the BB happy.

  9. #9
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    I am also experimenting with a Marin (2004 Rift Zone). Curious which Neo-Moto you are using, the 2.1 or 2.3? I have a set of the 2.3 and I am finding the clearance on the back to be very close to the front derailleur. When I am in the lowest gear, the tire rubs on the front derailleur cage. Some tinkering may help this, but it is so close...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombinate
    I am also experimenting with a Marin (2004 Rift Zone). Curious which Neo-Moto you are using, the 2.1 or 2.3? I have a set of the 2.3 and I am finding the clearance on the back to be very close to the front derailleur. When I am in the lowest gear, the tire rubs on the front derailleur cage. Some tinkering may help this, but it is so close...
    Same derailleur issue with 2.3. Adjusting a touch helps quite a bit. The catch is I'm having an occasional issue with dropping to the small front ring. D'oh!
    Hmmm...now where's that dremel?

  11. #11
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    glad I'm not going crazy for no reason. I am going to play with the quasi's a bit. will report back.

  12. #12
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    I've orderd a 650b front for my WR and MV. Interested to see how it corners compared to stock 26'. Big drawback is have to use different tires unfortunately.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvs_nz
    I've orderd a 650b front for my WR and MV. Interested to see how it corners compared to stock 26'. Big drawback is have to use different tires unfortunately.
    yes, keep us posted.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by pulpwoody
    yes, keep us posted.
    Oh, he's gonna love it in the apex. It won't want to tuck in so readily. I'm a little surprised he's getting in the water. With those big tires he runs and all.

    Now lets see what he has to say about the steepest climbs on that MV.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by socalscott
    Oh, he's gonna love it in the apex. .
    Yeh that's a good description for where I'm hoping it will make a difference. Just love the way you can push a 29er front wheel in to a loose corner and not have to wrestle with the bars.
    I'm hoping the 15mm dia will make a difference over my current big tires?

  16. #16
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    Stirring the pot. My updated 2004 Rift Zone:

    Full details here: Full suspension 650b conversion (picture heavy)


  17. #17
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    Did mock up with the 09 WR and 2.3 neo-moto on a Blunt just kisses the seat stay at full travel as compared to the 09 MV which does rub but you never get full travel on either bike anyway.
    Only got cell phone pics.
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  18. #18
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    The Kiwi is olding out onnis results. Come out wiffit mate.

  19. #19
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    Tried it on the front so far. Still got to build up a wheel for the back yet.
    You were right it does make a difference. Using a neo-moto 2.3 on the front compared to a 2.4 Nobby Nic..
    The grip and stability in the loose conditions is much better. Almost as good as a 29er. Didn't notice any roll over affect in the front . Mainly because the tires are a bit harsh compared to the bigger volume and smoother ride of the nobby nic. That's my only disappointment so far. I'm pretty critical of harsh tires and the choice and availability is pretty bad. Wouldn't mind trying the bigger volume Wolverines but as soon as any tire becomes available they get snapped up. I've got some racing Ralph's coming from Europe. I know how they ride so will be interested in how much grip I get out of them in the 650b size. I've got them in 26 and 29er size so i can do some back to back testing.

  20. #20
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    The NM will treat you more gently if you ask it to. Are you running tubeless?

  21. #21
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    No not yet. I'm running as low a pressure as I can with a latex tube as compared to butyl in the Nobby nics. IMHO I can let the tires down about 1 psi[ digital gauge] and get same feel as tubeless. Probably try a P35 on the front and see if that improves it?

    How do you find the 650b in the rear:? Do you notice any better rollover effect on the big stuff?That low amplitude stuff is where the MV excels anyway.
    Last edited by gvs_nz; 06-17-2011 at 10:19 PM.

  22. #22
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    It feels good in the rear. You may like it in the rear too? Well, maybe not at first. lol

    So, yeah. Although the changes are more subtle out back, there is an improvement in every aspect.
    I recently did a loop following a 26'er of similar level. There were many instances where the b tires would have me up on him, rubbing his nobs. The rider had more cardio on me, but I think the b's made up the difference enough to keep some wind in my sails.

  23. #23
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    I built up a rear wheel the other day. Did one back to back ride on the MV to compare with 26" rear and there is definitely a speed increase on the 650b Neo 2.1. Haven't done enough rides to compare over rough terrain. Steering didn't feel any different between 26" or 650 B on the rear with the 650b on the front. Ran quite low shock pressure and didn't get any seat stay rub.
    So far have noticed definite improvement in cornering grip/ traction with 650b on the front and additional speed and rollover with 650b on the back .

    I'll try and post some pics some time.

    Good mod for MV and WR. Additional bonus with these two frames.

  24. #24
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    I find the rolling speed up to a new RumbleFish 29'er a buddy has. I have to slow up for chit-chat with 26'ers.
    I had to ride a Santa Cruz yesterday and in many ways I was frustrated.

    I'm stoked that my b intentions for the MV purchase played out quite well.

  25. #25
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    Finally got round to getting some pics. WR is true full 650b capable. MV does rub seat stay at 49mm shock travel .if you ever managed to get full travel out of the shock then it might be a problem.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 650b MV '10.  Half way there.-dscf0032.jpg  

    650b MV '10.  Half way there.-dscf0036.jpg  

    650b MV '10.  Half way there.-dscf0041.jpg  


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