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  1. #1
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    Tomac Revolver Ti

    Hi I need some opinions on the new Tomac Revolver Ti vs. the Litespeed Niota Ti, any comments will be highly apreciated.

    Thanks

    Arturo

  2. #2
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    Don't waste your money on either. Both are built in China and very overpriced and the owners of Tomac and Litespeed (American Bicycle) are notorious for warrantee problems.

    If you want a quality titanium full suspension bike, look at Titus or Seven, both of which are custom fitted to you for less money. Other great high end bikes are Turner, Ventana, Maverick and (people will argue over their customer service) Ellsworth. Realistically, Titanium is a waste of money on a full suspension bike.

  3. #3
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    What do you mean? I own a Litespeed 2001 toccoa hardtail and it seems good quality to me. and what about Titanium being a waste of money on a full suspension?

    Thanks for your help

  4. #4
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    Thanks for your recomendation Steve, do you know where can I find more info on the seven suspension system, they don't explain at all how it works, and another question between seven, titus and moots which one you go first second and third?

    Regards Arturo

  5. #5
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    Arturo,

    Unfortunately Litespeed is not the same company that you bought your 2001 bike from. They have been sold several times and now frames are built in China not the US. They are trading on Litespeeds old reputation.

    For more information on the Seven suspension, go to the Marvrick USA website, the designer of the suspension. I strongly recommend that you test ride a Seven, Mavrick or Klein Palomino before you buy the Mavrick Design, some people love it, others hate it (I wanted to like it, but in the end did not). The Titus is a 4 bar design which by many is considered the best design because it is fully active. Finally, I would avoid the Moots, I have heard mixed things about their service and their quality for the money.

    If it were my money, no brainer, I would buy the Titus, followed by the Seven. Once again (and titus will confirm this), Titanium is a waste on a full suspension bike.

  6. #6
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    CDMC thanks a lot for your feedback....

    Arturo

  7. #7
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    steve thanks for your help....anytime in mexico send me an email....
    Regards

    Arturo

  8. #8
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    Agree with Steve3 Titus is a. great option. Another for

    titanium is deanusa.com. Dean bikes are made in Boulder, Colorado by skilled craftsman. If you want a light weight titanium full suspension bike they are a great option.

    I have test ridden their bikes and they perform well. You might want to read reviews.

    Titus does a great job. I think you would be happy with either.

    I would not spend big bucks on a Tomac and I own two.

    Good Luck

  9. #9
    German dude
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    I am not sure where some of these rumors started, but there is quite a bit of errant information floating around in this thread.
    As the marketing guy of Litespeed/Tomac and Merlin, I can assure you that all these fine titanium bikes are handcrafted here in Ooltewah, TN. And unlike may other companies, we actually do all our small parts for these titanium rockets in house aswell. We also encourage people to come by and visit our facility, meet our artisans and check out all the fantastic riding areas where we test our bikes. Because talk alone is cheap. :-)
    Happy Trails
    Herbert
    Litespeed/Tomac/Merlin

    Should you have any questions about the ride of the Niota Ti, wait until you see Michael Frank's review of it in the upcoming Mountain Bike magazine.

  10. #10
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    Thank you for clarifying that. I had read in several places that all production of Litespeed had been moved overseas to China which was incorrect. You mention that the titanium frames are still built in the US, is the same true for the Aluminium Frames?

    Thanks
    Riding slowly since 1977.

  11. #11
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    Cool-blue Rhythm Tomac Ti Revolver (Litespeed) Truth Reveled

    Where do I start, how about the beginning? I have been riding Litespeed's (5 different ones) for the last 9 years, I took delivery of my Ti Tomac Revolver last Spring. I ride 200 plus miles a week, I am a 52 year old semi pro, former national 125cc motocross champ (twice), plus I have a degree in mechanical engineering. I want all of you to know that I can ride anything I want, money is not the issue, I have rode them all including many Prototypes, the New 2004 Ti Tomac Revolver is the finest bike alive!! Very light (22lbs), very quick, excellent climber, and absolutely the fasted smoothest FS Cross-country bike made. Let's talk quality, the quality coming out of American Bicycle group is as good as it gets, on a scale of 1 - 10 it is a 10. Does it need to be? They seem to think so, I for one appreciate it. Yes, they import some Aluminum bike Frames from China or some other place, they are well made and designed the same way as all the hand - built Ti stuff, but for the mass that cookie cutter stuff works fine. (I train on one) The warranty at American is as good as it gets, yes there are delays from time to time, but that is to be expected from a company that 85% of their products are hand made.
    Before you guys start bad mouthing bikes you can't afford, lay off the Mountain Dew and go to your local shop and test ride one, at least call American and get educated before you post more crap. If you are ever at a 12 or 24 hour race and want to see the real item, look me up, maybe I will let you hold my trophy and sit on my scooter. Happy Trails......Capt

  12. #12
    German dude
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDMC
    Thank you for clarifying that. I had read in several places that all production of Litespeed had been moved overseas to China which was incorrect. You mention that the titanium frames are still built in the US, is the same true for the Aluminium Frames?

    Thanks
    We have never claimed that the aluminum bikes are made here in the USA, because that is not true. As I had mentioned earlier, we have always built and are still building all of our titanium bikes here in Ooltewah, and that since 1986. (Plus we have built bikes here for Rocky Mountain, Alpinestars, Marin, Univega etc) But when we decided to offer aluminum bikes aswell, we looked long and far in terms of who could actually build bikes to the high standard we have set for ourselves. (Just like other companies have utilized our unparalleled expertise, tooling and extraordinary work ethic to build titanium bikes for them)
    The company we found with the neccesary skills, artisans and equipment (ie one of the best heat treating facilities anywhere in the world) happens to be in Taiwan. But all bikes are designed and concepted and tested right here in the USA. Johnny T was initially sceptical to having Tomacs built elsewhere, but was open to the idea. Once he testrode the first Buckshot built in Taiwan, he was SOLD completely on the idea, especially since that bike was not only lighter, but handled like a dream.
    Happy Trails
    Herbert
    Litespeed/Tomac

  13. #13
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    Captnfunhog,

    Nice Trolling. You show up two hours after Herbert makes his first post, proceed to make your first post contragulating yourself on what a great guy you are and then claim that the people on this list are jealous and can't afford a bike like yours. To top it off you offer to "maybe" let someone hold your trophy if they see you at a race.

    Let me put it simply, go climb back under whatever rock it is you came out from. Sorry to dissapoint you, but we don't care that you were a 125mx rider back when Bob Hurricane Hanna was riding. We don't care that you are engineer. We don't care that you can afford anything you want. It is no more relevant than me bragging that I was a regionally ranked Trials rider when Bernie Schriber was poplular, that I am an Attorney, or that I live in a $750,000 house and can't decide whether to replace my current BMW with another or a Porsche. S*it, did I say that, oops, looks like my d*ck is bigger than yours.

    Your statement that the Tomac Revolver is the finest bike made is laughable. The same as saying that a BMW M5 is the finest sports sedan; there are a number of E55 AMG owners that would take issue with the statement. Glad you think your bike is so great, but I would never trade my Turner for it. By the same token there are many riders out their that feel that their Ellsworths, Titus, Santa Cruz, or Ventana Bikes are better than my Turner. Are they? As an engineer you should understand there is no answer because it is a subjective belief, not an objective fact. The bottom line is that if a rider loves their bike, it is the best bike for them.

    So why are so many people not hot on the Tomac and Litespeed. Both are single pivot bikes with the associated warts that come with a single pivot, mainly a semi-active rather than fully active design. In fact the Litespeed design looks like an near exact copy of the Iron Horse Hollowpoint frames, which come on bikes that cost $1099 at Supergo. When you stack on a $3500 price which is far more than you would spend get a custom built Titus TI bike with a fully active horst link and lifetime warrantee, it doesn't make much sense.
    Riding slowly since 1977.

  14. #14
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    I think you're a troll too mister!

    Show the guy some respect and quit bragging about the stuff that you own that is better. You did the exact same thing on the Cannondale forum complaining about the single pivot design of the Prophet...

    The truth is that AMG makes some awsome rides that are timeless. If you look at a Litespeed or a Merlin, you'll find details that makes the ride special. This bike was made for you... This ride owns you cause you'll be able to ride it forever and if ever you have a problem, AMG will fix it up for you!

    We have customers who bought frames 10 years ago and there bikes still look sharp. A customer got into an accident and AMG repaired the frame, re-furbished the frame and put a new sticker kit on it... Even though it was a couple years old, the bike still looks like new!

    I don't have a litespeed bike but i know that when my mountain bike days will be over, i'll ride one of the finest Merlin or Litespeed road bike!

  15. #15
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    Just my opinion

    Hey Arturo,

    I won't debate which bike is made where, I don't think it really matters.

    I own a Tomac Revolver Ti, and I love it. It's my race bike for all races that I compete in - 24 Hour endurance racing, cross-country, and off-road triathlons. I've ridden all sorts of trails with it, including some nasty steep sections with 2-3ft drops, and the bike performed extremely well. One thing I really like about the bike is the lateral stiffness, it doesn't "fishtail" like other full suspension bikes on fast downhill runs. The Ti gives it an incredibly smooth ride instead of the harsher feeling of an aluminum bike. Another great thing is the bike doesn't have the pedal-induced bob that other bikes do during hard climbing, which is a huge plus.

    Currently I'm riding a Litespeed Niota that I'm demoing from my LBS. I've had it on 4 good hard rides, and it performed well. The suspension is a little soft, and has more bob than the Tomac on climbs. It handles the downhill runs very well. The center of gravity seems to be set back a little more than the Tomac, so on steep climbs you have to lean more forward. The bike seems a bit stiffer and has a slightly harsher ride, although it could be adjusted with shock pressures too. For cornering, it seems very responsive.

    All-in-all, both are great lightweight FS bikes. Each has it's pros and cons versus each other, but I personally like the Tomac.

    Just for reference, I have ridden many bikes, including RM ETS-X50 (which is a great ride), Giant NRS, Specialized FSR and Epic, Trek Fuel, and a few others. I've never ridden a Titus or Seven or Moots, so I can't comment on those bikes.

    Good luck with your decision.

    Bryce

  16. #16
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    Good job! maybe

    Quote Originally Posted by bphin
    One thing I really like about the bike is the lateral stiffness, it doesn't "fishtail" like other full suspension bikes on fast downhill runs. The Ti gives it an incredibly smooth ride instead of the harsher feeling of an aluminum bike.
    Bryce
    just wondering what do u mean by fishtail.
    + Tell me if im wrong but Ti is stronger and stiffer etc. But also doesnt ubsorb vibrations very well and therefore would not be smoother, i think you must have had your suspention set up better for you on that ride. Usually its all about the way you set up the bike.
    Oh really, you think so do ya?

  17. #17
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    Hey food,

    When I say "fishtail", I'm talking about how the bike responds on fast downhill runs during cornering. I've ridden a few bikes that feel like the rear wheel moves sideways, left and right, during high-speed descents. It's much the same feeling as in a car when the rearend breaks loose. Usually a bike will fishtail due to low lateral stiffness, which usually has to do with how the suspension is setup around the bottom bracket.

    On the Tomac Revolver Ti, the rear pivot sits in the elbow created by the BB and the downtube, and the downtube is ovalized. This creates a very strong joint that doesn't allow lateral play in the rear-end, which in turn doesn't allow the bike to "fishtail" during fast descents.

    As for the Ti vs Al, the stiffness is exactly opposite of what you stated. Titanium is stronger, but much more compliant and not nearly as stiff as aluminum. Titanium absorbs a lot more vibration than an aluminum frame, that's why it's a much smoother ride. That's the reason many manufacturers are starting to use Ti a lot more.

    I agree that much of how a bike rides depends on the suspension setup. Small adjustments can make a huge difference.

    bphin

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJay
    I think you're a troll too mister!

    The truth is that AMG makes some awsome rides that are timeless. If you look at a Litespeed or a Merlin, you'll find details that makes the ride special. This bike was made for you... This ride owns you cause you'll be able to ride it forever and if ever you have a problem, AMG will fix it up for you!

    We have customers who bought frames 10 years ago and there bikes still look sharp. A customer got into an accident and AMG repaired the frame, re-furbished the frame and put a new sticker kit on it... Even though it was a couple years old, the bike still looks like new!

    I don't have a litespeed bike but i know that when my mountain bike days will be over, i'll ride one of the finest Merlin or Litespeed road bike!
    I am using Litespeed bikes for many years here overseas in the Swiss alps.
    Beginning with the Obed FS and the Road Catalyst, I am using now the Unicoi for the Marathon's and will go for the Sewanee next year. My winterbike is a Tomac 98 Special and believe me the winter time is tough here - the bike goes still well.The customer service @ ABG is perfect, fast and professional even in Europe. I would not ride anything else than bikes from them.

    Ride on!

    Pius

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