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  1. #1
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    Are older Lite Speed frames better?

    say 2001 on down?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Nazi
    say 2001 on down?
    IMO yes, I would say older frames are better. Litespeed have gone downhill since ABG took over.

  3. #3
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    Litespeed has only gone downhill when you point your Litespeed bike downhill, other than that Litespeed has developed better and better bikes each year. I have been with Litespeed since January of 1997 as a marketing mouth and previously raced mountain bikes for them from 91-96. So I have actually been here and actually know what I am talking about.
    Who else in the bike industry has a frame that weighs less than 800 grams? Who else in the bike industry has as much experience with exotic metals and tube shaping? We have constantly strived to ush the envelope of technology and while we may have stumbled here and there in general we have move upwards and onwards.
    I always encourage people to come by and visit us here and see what we actually do here. That gives you the chance to see how much we actually do and also experience the passion of our employees. Then I encourage you to visit your favorite brand of bikes and see what they actually do other than marketing.

    Cheers and happy trails

    Herbert
    Litespeed

  4. #4
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    For some reason people love to bash Litespeed. I've seen it happening for 10+ years. Never really understood why. Anyway, my '99 Owl Hollow is still going strong. I would like the option of disc brakes, though. Can you guys retrofit a mount and, if so, how much would it cost? I gather a new drop out needs to be welded on.

  5. #5
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    They do track nicely going down hill

    Quote Originally Posted by Herbert
    Litespeed has only gone downhill when you point your Litespeed bike downhill, other than that Litespeed has developed better and better bikes each year. I have been with Litespeed since January of 1997 as a marketing mouth and previously raced mountain bikes for them from 91-96. So I have actually been here and actually know what I am talking about.
    Who else in the bike industry has a frame that weighs less than 800 grams? Who else in the bike industry has as much experience with exotic metals and tube shaping? We have constantly strived to ush the envelope of technology and while we may have stumbled here and there in general we have move upwards and onwards.
    I always encourage people to come by and visit us here and see what we actually do here. That gives you the chance to see how much we actually do and also experience the passion of our employees. Then I encourage you to visit your favorite brand of bikes and see what they actually do other than marketing.

    Cheers and happy trails

    Herbert
    Litespeed
    I am very happy with my 01 Pisgah and I believe you that the new ones are just as good.

    I was wondering if they are still built in the US? Mine was but I wouldn't be heart broken if I ever had to replace it with one made in Taiwan as long as the quality was good.

    Also was the 2001 and older HTs built for 80mm or 63mm travel forks?

    I believe, (correct me if I'm wrong) that the Pisgahs built after 2001 were built with a 100mm fork in mind? is this still the case? I like 80mm designs but realize a lot of people nowadays favor 100mm.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herbert
    Litespeed has only gone downhill when you point your Litespeed bike downhill, other than that Litespeed has developed better and better bikes each year. I have been with Litespeed since January of 1997 as a marketing mouth and previously raced mountain bikes for them from 91-96. So I have actually been here and actually know what I am talking about.
    Who else in the bike industry has a frame that weighs less than 800 grams? Who else in the bike industry has as much experience with exotic metals and tube shaping? We have constantly strived to ush the envelope of technology and while we may have stumbled here and there in general we have move upwards and onwards.
    I always encourage people to come by and visit us here and see what we actually do here. That gives you the chance to see how much we actually do and also experience the passion of our employees. Then I encourage you to visit your favorite brand of bikes and see what they actually do other than marketing.

    Cheers and happy trails

    Herbert
    Litespeed
    Sorry Herbert, but since you are on ABG's payroll your opinion is certainly biased. In the late 90's I dreamt of having a Litespeed, but in 2004 when I had the cash for a Ti frmae, Litespeed were no longer the force they used to be. ABG took care of that. Internet forums were littered with complaints about broken frames, misaligned dropouts etc etc. The guys on the "custom side" are supposed to be much better, but the standard "off the shelf" frames come off a production line where the frame builder doesn't seem to care about the finished product. Merlin however seem to have done Ok after ABG, although their new decals seem to have become very "Litespeedish" and resemble those from a "Kitchig" Supermarket bike.

  7. #7
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    A Bit!

    I think that two aspects of Litespeed that is worse are:
    1. Use of Integrated Headsets
    2. The Alu frames that have cheapened the Litespeed name a bit.

    The frame breakages could be due to Litespeed getting too clever with their tube manipulation and saving a little too much weight.

    Fluff

  8. #8
    German dude
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffbomb
    I think that two aspects of Litespeed that is worse are:
    1. Use of Integrated Headsets
    2. The Alu frames that have cheapened the Litespeed name a bit.

    TFluff

    Unlike most manufacturers we have virtually eliminated integrated headsets for 2006 and the only aluminum bike in our lineup is the aluminum version of the Niota Ti.

    @ 20-bandh: We have never claimed that we are perfect, but neither is any other manufacturer. We push the envelope of technology and we offer a lifetime warranty to the original owner. How many other companies do that? As to rumors etc online, it is pretty easy to be negative in a world where anonymity rules. :-)

    @ Bike Nazi: All of our titanium bikes are built right here in TN and we still build bikes for other companies right here in this facility.

    @ fiend: We really don't retrofit frames as we want to design a frame from the base up with disc brakes in mind with the correct cable routing.


    Cheers,
    Herbert
    Litespeed

  9. #9
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    My experience about craftsmanship

    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Nazi
    say 2001 on down?
    i owned 4 litespeed frame before. Finally i change to 05' merlin xlm.
    Ocoee ht - 199X - perfect,
    Tellico - 1997 - perfect,
    Tanasi - 2000 - mis-alignment of the head tube and seat tube, after i installed my brand new headset,stem,handlebar and seatpost, i saw from the front of it, the seatpost is not perpendicular to the handlebar - make me disappointed,
    Sewanee - 2005 - brake stud is not parallel to each other - make me very very disappointed again,i will NEVER buy litespeed again.
    Last edited by Sonny; 12-03-2005 at 07:31 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonny
    i owned 4 litespeed frame before. Finally i change to 05' merlin xlm.
    Ocoee ht - 199X - perfect,
    Tanasi - 1997 - perfect,
    Tanasi - 2000 - mis-alignment of the head tube and seat tube, after i installed my brand new headset,stem,handlebar and seatpost, i saw from the front of it, the seatpost is not perpendicular to the handlebar - make me disappointed,
    Sewanee - 2005 - brake stud is not parallel to each other - make me very very disappointed again,i will NEVER buy litespeed again.
    Interesting, I was considering a Niota, but it seems that the majority of the people are not happy with it. I am sure that it is a wonderfully designed bike, but I see that the quality is just not there. I would go for the Niota Ti right now if it weren't for these negative reviews.

  11. #11
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    Yes, I wanted a Tanasi but changed my mind upon reading such reviews. It is clear that Litespeed has turned from a small builder with heart to a production line since ABG.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daffunda
    Interesting, I was considering a Niota, but it seems that the majority of the people are not happy with it. I am sure that it is a wonderfully designed bike, but I see that the quality is just not there. I would go for the Niota Ti right now if it weren't for these negative reviews.

    I have been riding my Niota for 1 year and abusing it and its awesome!!!
    Great climber and decender , light and easy to throw around

  13. #13
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    Ocoee /FS Full Suspension

    I found an old Litespeed Ocoee F/S in really good condition. Anybody know when Litespeed stopped making these. Are they sought after?

  14. #14
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    I never had any problems in the past 10 years with my Litespeed frames.

    The CATALYST is still on the road, the OBED FS hangs at the wall, but is still perfect. The UNICOI is sold to a friend and now I enjoy the fantastic SEWANEE! There are no differences in welds, frame alignment or quality so far.

    The customer service of ABG is the best in the world - even overseas!


  15. #15
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    Titus, Moots, Dean, and Morati are just a few of the companies that dealt with Titanium and for a long time. Even Mongoose has years ago with those Sandvik TST frames.

    Threads like this are valuable to a company listening to do something constructive with, rather than lash out at the naysayers. Many of us have seen the decline of Litespeed quality over the years and NOT the technology that is filibustering this thread by Herbert. Companies should look at these threads, address the customers, then look and see why they have this image.

    What's wrong? One can get custom Ti from other manufacturers for less than an off the production line Litespeed. Another problem is the frames should be perfect, especially at that price. Don't know how they're getting out of the QC department. Customer service could be better. We always hear about the aftersales support being poor, as well as to the dealers.

    IMAGE! People have a negative image of Litespeed, so that should be addressed aggressively. Then there was the Tomac fiasco with the multiple broken frames people were seeing and their demise.

    Just remember that for everyone posting here, there are 20 silent people not buying anything ABG related.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerk_Chicken

    Threads like this are valuable to a company listening to do something constructive with, rather than lash out at the naysayers. Many of us have seen the decline of Litespeed quality over the years and NOT the technology that is filibustering this thread by Herbert. Companies should look at these threads, address the customers, then look and see why they have this image.
    .
    Herbert's replies can hardly be described as 'lashing out' or 'filibustering'. So he works for the company and e sees things one way. If you worked for a company in which negative things were said, wouldn't you be tempted to defend it? I think his responses were proper. They certainly weren't out of line.
    That said, I own a 2001 Litespeed and it's perfect. I have heard the complaints and can't deny them (though there's usually a few who like to say this or that and portray a second hand story as first hand experience). I know only one other Litespeed owner (Ti Niota) who quite pleased with his.
    People don't think it be like it is, but it do - Oscar Gamble

  17. #17
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    I believe my Pisgah is also a 2001

    Quote Originally Posted by The Weasel
    Herbert's replies can hardly be described as 'lashing out' or 'filibustering'. So he works for the company and e sees things one way. If you worked for a company in which negative things were said, wouldn't you be tempted to defend it? I think his responses were proper. They certainly weren't out of line.
    That said, I own a 2001 Litespeed and it's perfect. I have heard the complaints and can't deny them (though there's usually a few who like to say this or that and portray a second hand story as first hand experience). I know only one other Litespeed owner (Ti Niota) who quite pleased with his.
    or 2000, at any rate it is the finest hardtail I've ever owned, handling, quality and appearance wise. I weigh in at 190+ with out gear, this bike has been hammered up and down many a nasty singletracks.
    What model do you got weasel?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  18. #18
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    it's a 2001 Pisgah that can be seen in the below thread. My toptube decal is a bit different from yours, although I did buy it later new in Spring 2002.
    People don't think it be like it is, but it do - Oscar Gamble

  19. #19
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    I've owned a 2001 Pisgah, 2002 Unicoi and 2003 Lookout. Rode and raced the crap out of the Pisgah for about 2 years, then sold it to a friend who has done the same since then and will continue to do so for the next few years on the same frame. Its been an awesome frame. The other 2 frames while I can say they had any problems the only real complaint I have is that the finish looked rushed and not as well done as the Pisgah. What really made my experience with the last two rather misareble was the retarded change to integrated headsets. I had so many issue's with them it was enough for me to want to get rid of both the Unicoi and Lookout. I think its great they finally dropped them and went back to standard headsets. In the end I really just got tired of hardtails and have moved on to FS since. At the time Litespeed seemed to have no intention of building a real FS bike. Once the Niota came out it was really just another outrageosly expensive Ti bike which is really for people with a Ti fetish. I just think there are better bikes for the money as far as FS is concerned (in both Ti and Al). The Pisgah has been one of the best bikes I have ever owned but if I were to ever consider another Ti bike I don't think Litespeed would necessarily be one of my top choices again. There are so many quality custom Ti builders out there for roughly the same price that Litespeed just fades away as an option.

    Someone above mentioned that they think there is no reason for such an expensive bike to be anything but perfect out of the factory and I whole heartedly agree. When someone is paying that much for a bike there is no excuse that any of those bikes should pass QC anything less than perfectly aligned. If they think otherwise then they should not be surprised to find buyers are loosing interest in their brand.

    I think a good deal of the problem with Litespeed is not really a quality issue. Maybe it has been, I don't know that but the perception I mostly note with them is that they are seen as an expensive production line builder in a market that is full of highly reputable custom Ti builders that pride themselves in building top notch flawless frames. Technology and fancy shaped tubes are not enough in a market were people are seemingly more interested in more tradition and custom build. Quite simply put, nobody really cares about mass produced Ti frames anymore.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bike Nazi
    or 2000, at any rate it is the finest hardtail I've ever owned, handling, quality and appearance wise. I weigh in at 190+ with out gear, this bike has been hammered up and down many a nasty singletracks.
    What model do you got weasel?
    Those decals appear to be 2000. The 2001 Pisgah logo was smaller and all yellow. The top tubes were made longer in 2001+.

  21. #21
    German dude
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hecubus
    Quite simply put, nobody really cares about mass produced Ti frames anymore.
    I really would encourage you to come by one day and see how our frames are crafted here, and I am convinced that "mass produced" would not be in your mind any more when you think about Litespeed. We are actually planning to have several options for factory tours in the week leading up to the Tour de Georgia, as lots of cycling fans will be in town that week. But everyone is really welcome any other time too, just call us a day ahead and be sure to wear solid shoes.

    Cheers,
    Herbert

    Litespeed
    www.litespeed.com

  22. #22
    [QUOTE=1]Lalo [/QUOTE]
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    I'm thinking on buying a 2006 Litespeed Niota AL but looking at this comments I am doubting in buying this one although looks quite good.

    can you guys give advice?

    thanks
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghandalf The Grey Spammer
    [SIZE="2"]One[/SIZE] [SIZE="3"]Spam [/SIZE][SIZE="4"]To[/SIZE] [SIZE="5"]Rule[/SIZE] [SIZE="6"]Them[/SIZE] [SIZE="7"]All[/SIZE]
    ------
    Sram Mars Arms.............................................. ..... SPAM!

  23. #23
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    Forget about Litespeed. Shop around and you will be able to get something much better for your money.

  24. #24
    [QUOTE=1]Lalo [/QUOTE]
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    heres the deal a Niota 2006 AL all XT or XTR on 1,099 dollars brand new thats my budget. another option i was thinking is ibex or ironhorse
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghandalf The Grey Spammer
    [SIZE="2"]One[/SIZE] [SIZE="3"]Spam [/SIZE][SIZE="4"]To[/SIZE] [SIZE="5"]Rule[/SIZE] [SIZE="6"]Them[/SIZE] [SIZE="7"]All[/SIZE]
    ------
    Sram Mars Arms.............................................. ..... SPAM!

  25. #25
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    I have a Taccoa (1999 I think) and have never had any problems with it. I don't follow what's happened as far as the company being sold, but hopefully it won't ever be an issue if I don't need any warranty work done. I've also heard through the grapevine that Litespeed has "gone downhill" and do notice the cheaper aluminum models in stores.

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