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  1. #1
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    Wilma 6 vs Wilma 9 vs Wilma 12

    you probably think i should be able to figure this one out on my own based on my riding habits ... but i just don't know what " UP TO 1 hr. 30 min " translates to in the REAL WORLD.

    because for example my mother's android phone is supposed to have several hundred hours of standby battery life and a few hours of talk time ... but the battery dies completely before she even gets home from work and she maybe uses the phone for half hour a day.

    and her phone is less than a year old. what happens when my Wilma battery is 2 or 3 years old ? or in cold weather ?

    i like to ride maybe 1.5 - 2 hours. i ride at low intensity basically in circles until i feel flat / exhausted / hungry - then i go home.

    i never did any riding at night except when i got too far and didn't make it back before sunset - in other words never on purpose.

    i tried my mother's 80 lumen princeton tec EOS bike ( $30 ) and liked the idea of a small helmet light, but it made almost no difference with the ambient light level in the park i was at night except in certain darker spots. it certainly made me visible to everybody else, but didn't really do much to help me see potential hazards on the road like broken glass etc.

    the princeton EOS bike weighs about 80 grams so it is just a bit lighter than Wilma and about the same size. don't really think i want to go heavier on the helmet ( like Niterider 3600 ) because i think it would be too distracting. i don't like to feel the helmet on my head ... but i like being able to aim the light with my head.

    so what do you say ?

    i would have loved to spend closer to $200 like magicshine, but i like things that are well designed and well made ... unless i am starving to death low price on its own doesn't really get me off.

    so to recap i want a lightweight helmet light that is good, and a battery/charger system that is powerful and won't take too much space in a hydration pack.

    help !

    also, i will only be riding within City Limits so it will never be pitch black - there will always be some kind of street lights within 100 yards or so. given that, do you think it would still be worth it to invest in a serious light like Wilma ? i mean i could get by without any light at all easily - but ever since i dislocated my shoulder in a crash i am trying to double down on safety.

  2. #2
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    I know what you mean as i always like to get battery's with a little extra capacity for the very reasons you mentioned. That been said, the 28 watt Wilma's run times on the highest setting are based just on that. Depending on your ambient tempurature you will need good air flow to maintain the highest output or it will just step down. If your road riding then yes you will probably have a higher average speed and will probably tap that high setting most of the time vs the hour+ climb i usually start my mountain bike rides with which of coarse i use much lower settings for.

    I would go for the Wilma 9 as Lupines claims 2:15 run time on the highest setting. Even if you just have 20 minuts of climbing on your rides where you wouldn't be using your highest setting, you would squeeze close to 2 1/2 hours out of that battery. Should be plenty. In the winter i ride in tempuratures between -5C and +5C for months without much effect on my Lupine battery's. Any colder than that, i'm watching a movie in front of the fireplace.Cheers!!!

  3. #3
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    for a light as bright as a Wilma and the fact that you'll be using it somewhere with some ambient light and "not scary technical nightmare" trails, you can easily double the rated run time on high for real world use. Lower power lights tend to get run on full for a greater proportion of a ride, but really high power lights tend to be used more on medium settings, which are usually around half the electrical power (but not half the brightness!) of the high setting.

    I would have suggested the Piko for a helmet light, but I don't know the precise weights for the different Lupine models.

  4. #4
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    would the piko also not be able to maintain its full output at highest setting continuously in absence of good airflow ? will it also step down to a lower output level ?

    what about niterider - it seems to have a lot of heatsinking ( based purely on exterior pictures ) - does it also not maintain continuous max output ?

    and if the real output bottleneck is heat dissipation - doesn't that mean i should go for a physically larger model because it will be able to dissipate more heat even if it is rated for same lumens ?

  5. #5
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    hm, i completely forgot how to use these "tree" type forums. i assumed i was replying to a linear thread. my answer was supposed to be to everybody.

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    Yes usually the larger head unit would incorporate more heat sinking as there is more surface, but your adding way more size and weight.I believe the Wilma only steps down to something like 23 watts still giving you somewhere close to 2000 lumens anyway. Still more light than most would need. Most high powered lights reguardless of brand will step down without good airflow. My Wilma is only 1100 lumens and is very bright, as matthemuppet said running the new Wilma at a lower power say a mere 1600/1800 lumens will run cool enough that unless your riding two miles an hour in 100 degree tempuratures will not be an issue and give way more run time than you will need.

    The Piko is also a killer light at half the weight and cost but of coarse no where near as bright as the new Wilma. Either would be a great choice.

  7. #7
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    I have the piko 6, 900 lumens for 2 weeks
    lupine Piko 900 & sandman nightride - YouTube

    It seems dark on the camera, but that has to do with the camera, it is much brighter than 2000 claimed lumens chinese lights, and the beam is wide enough to use it on the bars as well.

    In most cases even the 360 lumens settings woks fine for me,So I Think I'll seldom run it on the 900 lumens setting, But I do miss a second light!

    So I consider a second light and instead of a wilma, i'll probably buy a second piko, but with the normal battery to safe some weight. With 560 lumens on the bar and 360 lumens on the helmet I can ride pretty much everywhere, and I can ride for 6 hoursbefore the first battery 'll die and keep the whole package well under 600 grams!

    For the battery life, lupine gives you more than announced, I have a battery pack that is supposed to run for 3,4 hours but I could ride 2 x 2 hours on the 900 lumens setting, (road so there should be enough cooling). At lupine they want to make shure that, even if you end up with a set that has been on the shelffs for a while, you 'll still get the announced runtime.

    It weighs 55 gram, compared with wide even beam, you forget it's there!

    I cannot imagine needing 2400 or 3600 lumens on a bike, maybe on a snow skooter at 100 km/ h?
    But if you have problems with nightvision, perhaps???

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    would the piko also not be able to maintain its full output at highest setting continuously in absence of good airflow ? will it also step down to a lower output level ?

    what about niterider - it seems to have a lot of heatsinking ( based purely on exterior pictures ) - does it also not maintain continuous max output ?

    and if the real output bottleneck is heat dissipation - doesn't that mean i should go for a physically larger model because it will be able to dissipate more heat even if it is rated for same lumens ?
    I wouldn't worry too much about cooling - you'll only need full output when you're going faster and because you're going faster it'll stay cool

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    Just forget the Wilma (it's essentially last year's Betty), even the Piko will be a bit of an overkill for your use. But if you like quality engineering go for it. You don't need to use it @ 900 lumens all the time, and that way you can greatly increase the runtime.

  10. #10
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    You can't go wrong with either the Wilma or the Piko. If helmet mounting, I would want the lighter weight Piko. This years Wilma is a real beast in output though. I've had a Wilma and Betty since 2007 and the darn battery packs are still going. I was thinking of replacing them, but they just won't die so why bother yet. My Betty is 1750 lumens which is a lot, and the Wilmas now are beating them. I hardly ever run my Betty on high, only on fast downhills. You just need to decide if you want a super lightweight light with good output, or a bigger heavier light with massive output.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post

    i never did any riding at night except when i got too far and didn't make it back before sunset - in other words never on purpose.

    i tried my mother's 80 lumen princeton tec EOS bike ( $30 ) and liked the idea of a small helmet light, but it made almost no difference with the ambient light level in the park i was at night except in certain darker spots. it certainly made me visible to everybody else, but didn't really do much to help me see potential hazards on the road like broken glass etc.

    the princeton EOS bike weighs about 80 grams so it is just a bit lighter than Wilma and about the same size. don't really think i want to go heavier on the helmet ( like Niterider 3600 ) because i think it would be too distracting. i don't like to feel the helmet on my head ... but i like being able to aim the light with my head.

    so what do you say ?

    i would have loved to spend closer to $200 like magicshine, but i like things that are well designed and well made ... unless i am starving to death low price on its own doesn't really get me off.

    so to recap i want a lightweight helmet light that is good, and a battery/charger system that is powerful and won't take too much space in a hydration pack.
    If you are putting the battery in your backpack, there really isn't much difference in weight. The Piko is 55 grams and the Wilma is 110. Neither one is very heavy.


    help !

    also, i will only be riding within City Limits so it will never be pitch black - there will always be some kind of street lights within 100 yards or so. given that, do you think it would still be worth it to invest in a serious light like Wilma ? i mean i could get by without any light at all easily - but ever since i dislocated my shoulder in a crash i am trying to double down on safety.
    If you are riding on the road at all, there is no substitute for a bright visible light so cars can see you. So, I'd go bright.

    Also, having lots of light makes for confident riding. Things do look a little different at night even with lots of light. I find it nice to be able to make sure I see all the hazards and holes and don't get surprised. Been there with the injury thing and it's just not worth it.

    Any helmet light is a good idea. I like to have one on the bars and one on the helmet. WHen I'm looking forward, the light is additive for a nice full beam. When I look into corners, I can light up more than what is in front of my bars. For cars at cross streets, being able to aim the light at them to get their attention is important.

    You may want to think about two Pikos - one for the bars and one for the helmet. That would be a great lightweight and powerful solution. The 2.5Ah batteries are small and cute and have great run time with the Piko lamps.

    On batteries, I prefer to carry more than one battery. I'd choose two of the 5.6Ah batteries over an 11Ah battery. That way I have a spare if one dies or if there is a failure. In general, Lupine uses really high quality cells and while expensive, they seem to last well.

    I just (today) upgraded my 1500 lumen Wilma to a 2400 lumen one. I'm planning on moving the 1500 lumen Wilma to the helmet and or selling it and to replace it with the 900 lumen PIko. My 750lumen Piko would then be used in headband mode solely for the SAR stuff I do.

    J.

  12. #12
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    where do you keep the piko battery - in your backpack ? because if you are going to get an additional piko 3 wouldn't it make more sense to put the small battery on the helmet directly ? and then the bigger battery on the frame ? or do you feel that having a wire run from the helmet to the hydration pack is not an issue ?

  13. #13
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    With the Piko, I put the battery on the helmet. It's a small battery and it's not all that noticeable. The Piko battery, if I use it on the bars fits nicely under my stem. It's really not a very big battery. If you want a minimalist rig that is very bright, get two Pikos - one for the helmet and one for the helmet. That would give you redundancy and is just a really low footprint. The two lights would be 1800 lumens on full and would work well for you.

    With the Wilma, I put the 5.6Ah battery in my Jersey pocket and use the longer cord. WIth the hydration pack, you could put a tie on top of the backpack to give yourself a nice large loop so it would never bind.

    My current rig of a 1500 Wilma with a 750 Piko gives 2250 on high and is a very nice pattern and brightness when used together but I'm kind of addicted to lumens.

    J.

  14. #14
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    for me the main advantage of piko seems to be the ability to mount the battery on the helmet.

    i usually ride with a hydration pack because it fits everything i like to have with me perfectly ... but my mother for example has no use for a pump, tube, hex keys etc. sometimes she goes for a ride after work and by the time she comes back it is already dark. she uses a 80 lumen helmet light now, but with a fully helmet-contained piko system i could let her use it when i'm not using mine. she said she isn't interested in wearing a backpack and amazingly she doesn't have any pockets.

    if i'm already going to be going with a battery-in-the-backpack solution then i don't think wilma lamphead by itself is too heavy ... i didn't find exact number but i know it is in the ~ 110 grams range. compared to 80 gram self-contained princeton tec eos bike that i have tried, which is about the same size, i figure it should feel similar - which is to say not perfect, but tolerable. i think the extra 50 grams or so is not as important as 2X lumens.

    on the other hand the ability to not use a backpack with a piko is a tangible advantage. but i would then need to get a second light with a bigger battery on the bike itself. i originally wanted to get away with a single light, but now it is looking like a 2 light system will work better.

  15. #15
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    the consensus seems to be two lights better than big light, and spare battery better than big battery.

    correct ?
    Last edited by androgen; 09-25-2012 at 10:41 PM.

  16. #16
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    A 2013 Wilma and also a 2013 Piko would be an ideal combo, but if the price is too much you could go with one Lupine now along with a cheapo light for this year. Then next year add a second Lupine and you will be good to go for many years. In the end it is better to have two Lights from the same manufacturer that can share batteries, cables, and chargers etc.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusHQ View Post
    In the end it is better to have two Lights from the same manufacturer that can share batteries, cables, and chargers etc.
    that's an interesting point !

    this thread is very helpful !

  18. #18
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    Start with one piko, it is probably already 3x more light than you'll need.
    You can test it on the helmet and the bars.
    And, if it turns out that you need more light, you can judge yourself whether you'll need a 2' wilma or piko.

    The new lupine battery's serve also as rear light, I mount the light on the saddlepen with an additional rear light on the helmet.

    And upcoming traffic is blinded, even with a 300 lumens output, so don't forget to lower the beam or point your light far away when crossing!

  19. #19
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    would a Piko on the Helment and L&M Seca 1700 on the handlebars be a good setup ? i think its whack personally that lumen for lumen Seca is as expensive as Lupine, but from the shots i seen its beam pattern ( wide ) seems better suited to handlebars ... while the Lupine patterns, especially on Piko ( focused ) seem better suited to helmet.

    ???

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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    would a Piko on the Helment and L&M Seca 1700 on the handlebars be a good setup ? i think its whack personally that lumen for lumen Seca is as expensive as Lupine, but from the shots i seen its beam pattern ( wide ) seems better suited to handlebars ... while the Lupine patterns, especially on Piko ( focused ) seem better suited to helmet.

    ???
    The beam of the piko is already rather wide, If you like a narrow beam go for xpg spot emitters. For me, i don't like a narrow spot, it only creates hotspots in the flood which makes the spill less usable.

    As someone mentioned before, 2 different brands means 2 different controls, different chargers, no change of exchanging batteries,...

    But why do you want more light on a bike than on a motorbike? Try with one piko, and you'll quickly now whether you'll need a second ligth, and how much light you'll need!

    A few years back, 900 lumens was top of the range, people were screaming that it turned night into day, they were able to ride full speed everywhere,... you consider buying 2500 lumens for a ride in the park!!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nothing's impossible View Post

    A few years back, 900 lumens was top of the range, people were screaming that it turned night into day, they were able to ride full speed everywhere,... you consider buying 2500 lumens for a ride in the park!!
    i know. i had a Surefire 200 lumen flashlight for $280, now recently i picked up a 450 lumen Fenix for $95. so that's double the Lumen for 1/3 the price.

    but why should i care what was before ? i care about what will be in the future. i know when i drive a car without HID headlights i can't even tell whether the headlights are on or off. even with HID i can't really tell unless i turn on the high beams. HID headlights are about 6,000 lumen. when i drove to Cali from NY i was running high beam HID quite a lot and every single car going the other way was upset about it LOL, but without those high beams i couldn't see where i was going and at 80 mph that's not safe.

    my Fenix 450 lumen flashlight ? yeah you can certainly see it - it is very bright - but the spot is only like 10 degrees wide. now if you could stretch that spot to about 30 degrees ... well then you would be up to about 5,000 lumens for same brightness of the spot, in other words then you would have HID car headlight high beams.

    if you look at beamshots Seca 1700 is very wide. it is not so much brighter than a piko as it is wider. since you can't control where you point your handlebar beam i would like it wide. on the other hand the helmet i would rather have narrow that way i don't blind people unnecessarily, but it is still bright wherever i point it.

  22. #22
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    It's kind of a pain to be switching Pikos from helmet to helmet. I'd think you mother would be more likely to use it with a bar mount. The bar mount is very portable from bike to bike.

    Those who say 1/3rd the light of a Piko is all you need (300 lumens) have way better night vision than I (and mine's pretty good). A 900 lumen Piko would work pretty well by itself for most people. Two together (helmet and bar) would be a very good system. A Wilma and Piko is superb.

    The Piko battery is so small, I'd not waste the effort putting it in a pack.

    J.

  23. #23
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    to make things more concrete, these are the bike paths in question:

    http://www.nycbikemaps.com/wp-conten...3/dscf0035.jpg

    http://www.capitalnewyork.com/files/...ikeLane400.jpg

    IMG_9474.JPG (image)

    the 2nd and 3rd are isolated from cars, but the 1st runs in the middle of the street so at every block you have to cross streets with cars going across - it is also the path my mother normally uses:

    http://www.nycbikemaps.com/wp-conten...lls-aerial.jpg

    this route is rather suicidal, as when i drive my car i almost run somebody over every single day here. you see oncoming traffic and you try to pull a quick left turn then just as you're in the way of oncoming traffic you realize that while you were looking at other cars some cyclist has jumped right in front of you and now you can neither stop nor keep going.

    in california you get a green arrow for left turn and oncoming traffic waits while you make the turn, but here in brooklyn you just sort of have to go for it and pray for the best. it's BS but that's how it is. so in this particular situation i need as much visibility as possible, but it would have to be SIDE visibility mostly, although front would help too and maybe even rear.

    so i am leaning towards Piko 3 on helmet and L&M Seca 1700 on handlebars, but Seca only goes down to 425 lumen minimum and i read that it really annoys other cyclists / pedestrians on such narrow paths ?

    i guess, as everybody suggested, i can start with just the Piko, but i can get the Seca from Amazon and they take anything back for 30 days at zero cost so i might as well get the Seca too and if it doesn't work for me just return it.
    Last edited by androgen; 09-26-2012 at 10:35 PM.

  24. #24
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    UPDATE ! placed an order for Piko 3 from Gretnabikes. This will be for helmet. I am still looking at handlebar options.

  25. #25
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    UPDATE 2: ordered L&M Seca 1700 Race for handlebars.

    ok so i'm going to wait until i can test the Piko and the Seca and i will let you know how it is.

    for the time being, thanks everybody !

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