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  1. #1
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    Useful rule of thumb metric for judging Bike Light Value !

    just came up with this metric: a well designed light costs $100 per lithium cell.

    for example:

    Dinotte 400R - 2 cells for $189. $95 / cell.
    L&M Stella 200 - 2 cells for $200. $100 / cell.
    L&M Seca 1700 Race - 3 cells for $319. $106 / 2600 mah cell.
    L&M Seca 2000 Enduro - 6 cells for $569. $95 / 2600 mah cell.
    Lupine Wilma X10 - 6 cells for $685. $114 / 3300 mah cell. ( these are unusually high capacity cells, so it costs a bit more )

    here is a more tricky one:

    Fenix TK22 - 1 cell for $80, but does not include battery or charger. add $10 for 18650 battery and another $10 for charger and you're back to $100 / cell.

    and for AA powered lights we can use the fact that 3XAA cells have the same voltage and amp-hours as a single lithium cell. so instead of counting the cost per 1 lithium cell count the cost per 3XAA cells.

    for example:

    Philips Saferide - 4 AA for $139. that's $104 per 3 AA

    MonkeyLectric M232 - 3 AA for $75 but does not include batteries or charger. add $15 for batteries and $10 for charger and you're back to $100 per 3 AA.

    and here is the real crazy part ...

    General Motors Chevy Volt Plug-in Hybrid sedan: 288 cell lithium battery for $28,500 in California: $99 per cell ! ! !


  2. #2
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    The larger capacity cells like what is found in the lupine have been used on the flashlight side of things for some time now. There are even higher capacity cells that have been out for a good while.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    The larger capacity cells like what is found in the lupine have been used on the flashlight side of things for some time now. There are even higher capacity cells that have been out for a good while.
    i picked out some pretty high-end battery for my Fenix TK22 flashlight, it was something like double the price of most 18650 batteries, but it's only 3100 mah. however that may be because it has an internal PCB protection circuit, which obviously must take up some space. i guess if it didn't have that circuit inside it would also be 3300.

    as i said before, the Lupine is without a doubt a high-end product, but that doesn't mean it is a good product.

    for example there were many attempts by US auto industry to make a luxury car to compete with Mercedes and BMW and they all failed. they produced cars that on paper had it all - big V8 engines, adjustable air suspensions etc - but were C4AP. this is sort of what Lupine is - it is a very good light on paper, but it's just C4AP.

    the problem with the American luxury cars was three fold:

    1 - they had handling of a motorboat
    2 - they had interior styling of a pickup truck
    3 - their advanced engines and suspensions were so advanced they self-destructed

    in other words the Americans simply had no idea what they were doing. and neither does Lupine.

    yes Lupine has the Lumens and the Watt-Hours and wireless remote control, and fancy battery life indicators etc ...

    but Lupine fails in such crucial areas as beam pattern, cooling and cable plug design. if it only failed in 1 of those 3 areas it would be enough reason not to buy it - but it failed in all 3.

    eventually cars like Lincoln Continental were discontinued because nobody was stupid enough to buy them, however Lupine still sells like pancakes because people just don't understand lights as well as people understand cars.

    Lumen for Lumen Light & Motion Seca 2000 Enduro is actually more expensive than Lupine Wilma X10. Seca is 2000 Lumens for $569 and Wilma is 2800 Lumens for $685 which is significantly cheaper per Lumen, and also cheaper per watt-hour of battery life.

    and it SHOULD be cheaper, because Lupine simply isn't as good as Seca.

    compared to Engineering in L&M Seca the Lupine lights are almost like DIY lights or Chinese lights. IM SERIOUS. they're just not on the same level. Light & Motion is manufactured in Silicon Valley - enough said ! not just designed in Silicon Valley but MADE THERE.

    i have a whole bunch of stuff made in Germany, from my car to my Kitchen Knives. but can you name even ONE product that is actually MADE in Silicon Valley ? iPhone is made in China. Seca is made in Silicon Valley.

    actually there is ONE other thing MADE in Silicon Valley - Tesla Model S. which just happens to be CAR OF THE YEAR beating out all of German cars, despite cars being what Germans are best at.

    HANDS DOWN Seca is the best light ever !

    German Engineering basically is famous for stuff made out of steel - like Cars, Tanks, Submarines, Knives and Scissors. Silicon Valley is famous for stuff made out of Silicon. NEWSFLASH ! ! ! LEDs are made out of Silicon ! not Steel ! ! !

    people think Lupine is better than Seca because it's made out of metal HAHAHAHAHA ! ! ! it's made out of metal because that's what Germans do ! they make stuff out of metal ! even their music like Rammstein is called INDUSTRIAL METAL ! ! !

    but guess what ? chinese lights are made out of metal too, and so are the DIY lights ...

    L&M Seca for lights is what Tesla Model S is for cars. by the way, since becoming car of the year Model S also earned the highest safety ratings of ANY CAR EVER TESTED IN HISTORY in crash tests ...


  4. #4
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    All my batts for my flashlights have the internal pcb. I have been using Panasonic 3400ah batteries since last year in my flashlights. I also have other brands at 3400mah such as The AW brand. The main thing to be aware of is not all of then 3400mah or even 3100mah batteries are the same size. They all have slight variations from each manufacture and may or my not fit I to every flashlight.

    Fenix sells the AW brand 3400mah batts on their site to go with their flashlights.

  5. #5
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    You say lupines are crap in this thread but then in another thread you say that you would buy a lupine Wilma x10 with 2800 lumens for your setup if you had the money.... Lol

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    All my batts for my flashlights have the internal pcb. I have been using Panasonic 3400ah batteries since last year in my flashlights. I also have other brands at 3400mah such as The AW brand. The main thing to be aware of is not all of then 3400mah or even 3100mah batteries are the same size. They all have slight variations from each manufacture and may or my not fit I to every flashlight.

    Fenix sells the AW brand 3400mah batts on their site to go with their flashlights.
    my batteries are Orbtronic with Panasonic Cells inside. i didn't see 3400 mah ones at the time - that was actually right after Hurricane Sandy when i decided to get a new flashlight and got TK21. then i gave it to pops and upgraded to TK22 but i got the batteries right after Hurricane Sandy, whenever that was. as i said, at the time the 3100 mah were the biggest ones i saw. if there are 3400 mah Panasonic ones out now then that's probably the way to go.

    but i do think 2600 mah ones are still standard, and if the manufacturer of bike lights doesn't explicitly mention it i assume it is 2600 mah per cell.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    You say lupines are crap in this thread but then in another thread you say that you would buy a lupine Wilma x10 with 2800 lumens for your setup if you had the money.... Lol
    the thing is space is tight when you're trying to put 6,000 lumens on your helmet and Wilma is compact for its 2,800 lumens. plus if wilma is flanked by two Secas the Secas will give the wilma the spill that it lacks to improve its bad beam pattern. and finally the wilma is just plain cheaper lumen for lumen and watt hour for watt hour than Seca 2000 Enduro.

    that said though, i take back what i said about using Wilma X10 as a third helmet light, upon further consideration i would rather use Seca 2000 Enduro.

    sorry for causing any confusion. i just temporarily got excited when i saw those sexy lupine batteries with new larger capacities, and the fact that the new generation lights while much improved are the same price as old ones were. but after thinking it over, Seca is still the way to go.

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