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  1. #1
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    Some Lupine news 2015/2016

    Some Lupine news 2015/2016

    Lupine presents its new gear usually at the "Outdoor" and the "Eurobike" fairy in Germany, taking place in July and August.

    According to the Lupine forum the Betty R has slighlty improved up to 5000 lumen output (4500 lumen so far); also a Bluetooth bidirectional connection is announced, with an app for smartphones (Apple and Android mentioned) allowing settings/control and e.g. to view/alert the charge status/temperature. Control over app is optional, the standard wireless remote (on the handlebar) is preserved.
    There will be no upgrade kit (regarding Bluetooth) for the older Betty R models.
    (german): was so läuft - Seite 9 -

    Also some minor details/design modifications, see (german): Der "alle kleine Modifikationen " Threat von Wolf -

    regards

    EDIT:
    Also a companion to the existing USB One (Lupine Lighting Systems - Products • Accessories • USB ONE) is announced, called "USB Charger". Will enable to charge the Lupine batteries via USB, e.g. also on computers. Specifications are: running on every USB 5V slot, with up to 1A (if available). So working with many charge plugs with USB (for smartphones etc.).
    was so läuft - Seite 7 -
    Last edited by CHnuschti; 07-19-2015 at 08:01 AM.

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    Being able to setup/monitor the light with a phone is a very cool feature. I see this becoming a major selling point for high-end lights in the future for those that can afford them.

  3. #3
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    Piko has got an update, new modell will have 15W / 1500 lumen (max.)/ XML-U4 led, with a slightly changed beam geometry / lens.
    was so läuft - Seite 13 - (and following posts)
    2nd picture: new piko 2015/2016 ; 3rd picture: Piko current version (13W / 1200 lumen)

    The Piko flashlights PTL will not get these improvements.

    Eurobike fair, where all the new Lupine gear will be officially presented, starts 26. august.

  4. #4
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    New Lupines.. 1500, 3200 and 5000 lumens (Piko, Wilma and Betty)
    Best lens, leds and coated glass. Remote control for all.

    Bluetooth

    Piko R, Wilma R and Betty R are coming up with an integrated Bluetooth Module and a Remote Control.

    Thereby it is possible to control one or up to five lights directly from the handlebar - with lightning speed, without delay, without cable and without any security risk.

    A special LUPINE LIGHT CONTROL APP for iOS and Android will also be available in a few weeks. This App makes it possible to adjust the lighting levels of our lamps from the smartphone, to control the headlights directly or get unique status informations.

    The Piko R has been completely redesigned and is simply better at everything. It is more powerful and more efficient, thanks to newly developed high-performance optics. Above all, the lateral illumination, as well as the lighting range, were significantly improved.

    The new Piko R brings huge 1500 lumens and is only a few millimeters larger than its predecessor.

    But the latest generation can do even more. The Piko R has Bluetooth and can be controlled by remote control or mobile app.

    Our Wilma has been completely revised. The high-quality aluminum body is now even more robust, more beautiful and above all, more functional. More cooling fins, a special anti-reflection coated front glass and the latest CREE XM-L2 U4 provide significantly more power - the latest version of Wilma produces tremendous 3200 lumens.

    The Wilma R can be controlled completely via Bluetooth remote control or mobile app.
    In addition, new quick releases, an improved helmet mount and an optimized headband are available for Wilma too.

    In July, we already announced a new and upgraded model of our Betty R.
    Even brighter, even more genius!

    With a special anti-reflection coated front glass and the latest CREE XM-L2 U4 LEDs, we increased the efficiency by 12%. The Betty R now makes huge 5000 lumens.

    But the real highlight of Betty R is the new Bluetooth technology.


    Rotlicht
    The Rotlicht comes in an optimized version. The contact surface for the seat tube has been extended. Furthermore, the rubber bands for fastening are included in two different lengths and the mounting screws come in a "Mat Black" finish.
    An additional seat rail mount for the Rotlicht will be available from early October.

    New Accessories
    We have expanded our accessories range.
    New quick release for mounting on handlebars in 25.4mm, 31.8mm and 35mm diameter.
    New headbands for Piko and Wilma
    New helmet mounts for Piko and Wilma

    After the huge success of the USB ONE last year, there will be the USB Charger available shortly.
    The USB CHARGER is, as the name already recognizes, a USB charger for Lupine batteries. The charging current is up to 1A. The perfect charger for traveling.
    Availability, Brochures and Pricelists
    The new products will be ready to order next week. Shipping will start end of September. We actually expect some bottlenecks on the delivery capacity of the bluetooth lights due to high demand and a limited production capacity.

    While our website will be updated in the next two weeks, you can already find details to the upcoming products in our new brochure.
    Orders you can place at our onlineshop or your local dealer.


    http://www.lupine.de/files/documents...e82a-105508129

    Some Lupine news 2015/2016-11930775_924908807548618_7973871865412230899_o.jpg
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  5. #5
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    Bluetooth for a light! Control it from a smartphone! That's just ridiculous. I'll stick to using the switch on the back of the light. Besides I don't need to get a smartphone either.

  6. #6
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    Smartphone to configure it, remote control to operate more safety.
    Looking for power lights?, see here

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    I'm impressed. I drool when I think of having a helmet light that I can control from the bars. One problem though, Lupine hasn't addressed the preference some have for "neutral binned LED's". Since you've posted on this forum perhaps you've noticed that a lot of people are interested in lamps with neutral emitters. Of course the neutral lamps are a little bit less in total output but once you get used to using neutral emitters you really don't want to go back. Would be nice if Lupine offered that choice. While I love the idea of a Bluetooth controlled lamp, "Neutral LED's" trump "Bluetooth control" from my point of view. I'd like to see more brand name lamps offer the choice of emitter bin.

  8. #8
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    A video and some pics of the new Lupine gear at the Eurobike fair: Eurobike: Lupine 2016 - Hell, Heller, Bluetooth Betty - MTB-News.de

  9. #9
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    Any word on when these will be available from Gretna?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    One problem though, Lupine hasn't addressed the preference some have for "neutral binned LED's". Since you've posted on this forum perhaps you've noticed that a lot of people are interested in lamps with neutral emitters.
    Not my cup of tea, but Lupine has an offer of this kind, a (rechangeable) LED board with 4900K temperature, currently available only for the Betty R and Betty TL2 (=flashlight).

    4900 Kelvin Option | Lupine Lighting Systems Shop

    I think to remember that in the Lupine board was mentioned that such thing was also available for the Wilma as kind of special direct deal, I guess one would have to sort it out directly with Lupine (in Germany).

  11. #11
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    An update of the news:

    - Backlight in blue edition available in limited number: Rotlicht Sonderserie auch als Blaulicht -
    - Upgrade of older models of Piko/Wilma/Betty for the new "bluetooth" feature via cellphone is not possible/offered. was so läuft - Seite 15 -
    - Mount for backlight on saddles coming (said "within some weeks"): was so läuft - Seite 15 -
    - App for the bluetooth feature announced in the Lupine store "this week": was so läuft - Seite 16 -
    - New Upgrade LED-boards for Betty/TL2/Wilma: Upgrade | Ersatzteile und Zubehör | Lupine Lighting Systems Shop

  12. #12
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    Lupine advised the newest Piko, Wilma, and Betty versions will be available for purchase in the United States by mid-November 2015 or so. That is great news.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Jays View Post
    Lupine advised the newest Piko, Wilma, and Betty versions will be available for purchase in the United States by mid-November 2015 or so. That is great news.
    You know I couldn't help but notice that this is your first post. No problem there but your join date was in Nov 2005!! Whats up with that?! Ten years before a first post!... got to be some kind of record there. lol

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Jays View Post
    Lupine advised the newest Piko, Wilma, and Betty versions will be available for purchase in the United States by mid-November 2015 or so. That is great news.
    Let's hope. What I heard from Gretna (Lupine NA) was Betty R in next week or so. Piko follows in Oct later. Wilma by November.


    J.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    "...You know I couldn't help but notice that this is your first post. No problem there but your join date was in Nov 2005!!..."
    I was biding my time to wait for a *really* crucial and pivotal topic upon which to make my debut. What could be more interesting than sweet new Lupine lights? LOL.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Jays View Post
    I was biding my time to wait for a *really* crucial and pivotal topic upon which to make my debut. What could be more interesting than sweet new Lupine lights? LOL.
    ...and since your second post is in response to my astute observation I find I cannot disagree... Now if Lupine decides to offer some of the warmer/neutral LED's with some of it's new products try not to take 10 yrs to let us all know.

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    Good points, Cat-man-do. Lupine has an unusual product development and launch schedule, for sure. One would think the Lupine factory would be shipping tirelessly in early-September so serious riders/runners are *ready* for dark autumn?

    I encountered this last year when it was *late-February* when some of their lights I wanted were finally available. Heck, at that point days were starting to lengthen again and springtime was around the corner! I simply limped along with my aging MagicShine lights to wait until now. LOL.

    Looking forward to good news in the coming weeks from their HQ!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Jays View Post
    Good points, Cat-man-do. Lupine has an unusual product development and launch schedule, for sure. One would think the Lupine factory would be shipping tirelessly in early-September so serious riders/runners are *ready* for dark autumn?

    I encountered this last year when it was *late-February* when some of their lights I wanted were finally available. Heck, at that point days were starting to lengthen again and springtime was around the corner! I simply limped along with my aging MagicShine lights to wait until now. LOL.

    Looking forward to good news in the coming weeks from their HQ!
    Agree. I think their launch is timed to Interbike but that doesn't help us here that want to ride at night this coming fall.

    I'm pretty interested in the new Wilma at 3200 lumens with the remote. That could be a pretty interesting upgrade for me.

    J.

  19. #19
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    2 videos of the Light Control App (on an Iphone), german:
    Betty R: https://youtu.be/5WQmf_2Ui1A
    Piko: https://youtu.be/XPIE7sezF1Y
    Announced to be available in the Apple shop in "the coming days".

    Confirmed the app will be available also for android.


    New saddle mount for the backlight:
    manual: http://www.lupine.de/files/manuals/S...halter_web.pdf
    pics: Rotlicht Sattelhalter -

  20. #20
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    Gretna Bikes website has the 2016 Betty-R 14 listed,, as well as the 2016 Piko X headlamps. No 2016 Wilma's yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CHnuschti View Post
    2 videos of the Light Control App (on an Iphone), german:
    Betty R: https://youtu.be/5WQmf_2Ui1A
    Watched that video (I understand some German) and I have to say that it is very impressive. The app allows you to easily adjust the level of each mode as well as the number of modes in the mode rotation. You could very easily set up a race mode, where you have two modes such as high and medium. You can also add special modes such as a blinking mode, which would be useful if you wanted to set the light up for commuting.

    There was also something about setting the low battery level indicator or perhaps a moon mode. I'm not sure what he was saying.

    I don't know if the app can save a particular setup to a file which you can retrieve later, but to me that would be the next logical step.

    This sets the bar pretty high, and it is definitely something I would expect to see on other premium lights in the future. Is glowworm doing this?
    Last edited by varider; 10-08-2015 at 01:08 PM.

  22. #22
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    This hole thing to me is an "OMG WTF???". Its already sad how much the world relies on smart phones, but now to make a persons ability to night ride dependant on having a supported phone to be able to "program" their lights.





    All I can do is laugh. Just another way/excuse for smart phones to distract and over complicate things.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    Watched that video (I understand some German) and I have to say that is very impressive. The app allows you to easily adjust the level of each mode as well as the number of modes in the mode rotation. You could very easily set up a race mode, where you have two modes such as high and medium. You can also add special modes such as a blinking mode, which would be useful if you wanted to set the light up for commuting.

    There was also something about setting the low battery level indicator or perhaps a moon mode. I'm not sure what he was saying.

    I don't know if the app can save a particular setup to a file which you can retrieve later, but to me that would be the next logical step.

    This sets the bar pretty high, and it is definitely something I would expect to see on other premium lights in the future. Is glowworm doing this?
    I agree. Following arcane button pushes for programming is a big pain. This is the right way to do this.

    A number of micro controller suppliers are making devices that include a bunch of control circuitry as well as a whole BT radio and antenna. That makes it really a straightforward task to add BT to devices like this. Kudos to lupine for leading in this.

    I *really* want a Betty.

    J.

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    Beamshot comparison for the latest Lupine models available: Lupine Lighting Systems - Leuchtvergleich

    Also a video compilation of beamshots, showing additionally the comparison (in the second half) between the older/previous variants of each model : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c19fI8L_kl0

    As for the bluetooth cellphone app, I was not able to read in the Lupine forum a definitive confirmation if there will be the possibility to save different sets of settings. But IMO a "must" to offer such feature.

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    All I can do is laugh. Just another way/excuse for smart phones to distract and over complicate things.[/QUOTE]

    I do have to admit watching most people these days walking/driving/sometimes biking/in social situations,,,,, having there heads buried in their phones can be annoying, so I hear where your coming from tigris99. I'm guessing here that the Bluetooth programming on the 2016 Lupines are an option. I would be very surprised it they took away the ability to program from the lamp head itself like the ones I have.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    All I can do is laugh. Just another way/excuse for smart phones to distract and over complicate things.
    I do have to admit watching most people these days walking/driving/sometimes biking/in social situations,,,,, having there heads buried in their phones can be annoying, so I hear where your coming from tigris99. I'm guessing here that the Bluetooth programming on the 2016 Lupines are an option. I would be very surprised it they took away the ability to program from the lamp head itself like the ones I have.[/QUOTE]

    I'm sure the engineers at Lupine feel the same way, but this is just the fad in market now. It's absurd. Bluetooth connections are so finicky. The last thing I want is my battery/light function to be tied to another device that can run out of battery or stop working for a million reasons. A light is a safety device, not a toy.

    Now if they could find a way to have the light read my mind,.... that would be another story........

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rootmaster View Post
    I do have to admit watching most people these days walking/driving/sometimes biking/in social situations,,,,, having there heads buried in their phones can be annoying, so I hear where your coming from tigris99. I'm guessing here that the Bluetooth programming on the 2016 Lupines are an option. I would be very surprised it they took away the ability to program from the lamp head itself like the ones I have.
    I'm sure the engineers at Lupine feel the same way, but this is just the fad in market now. It's absurd. Bluetooth connections are so finicky. The last thing I want is my battery/light function to be tied to another device that can run out of battery or stop working for a million reasons. A light is a safety device, not a toy.

    Now if they could find a way to have the light read my mind,.... that would be another story........[/QUOTE]

    LOL!!

    The Lupines can still be operated if the remote fails as the lamp heads do have a manual switch, so not a safety issue,,, not sure about the other brands but would think they would as well for that exact reason,, if not that would be a deal breaker for sure.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    I'm sure the engineers at Lupine feel the same way, but this is just the fad in market now. It's absurd. Bluetooth connections are so finicky. The last thing I want is my battery/light function to be tied to another device that can run out of battery or stop working for a million reasons. A light is a safety device, not a toy.

    Now if they could find a way to have the light read my mind,.... that would be another story........
    LOL!!

    The Lupines can still be operated if the remote fails as the lamp heads do have a manual switch, so not a safety issue,,, not sure about the other brands but would think they would as well for that exact reason,, if not that would be a deal breaker for sure.[/QUOTE]

    Exactly. Bluetooth LE if implemented properly, is a very reliable connection. BTLE peripherals can operate for like up to a year or so on a coin cell. So this is not the same BT as first it came out. A lot of the chips to support the BT radio that are integrated with the microcontrollers are extremely robust. I have a HRM and a bunch of speed cadence sensors that operate easily for a year or more on a CR2032 cell AND have been operating daily for that same period. So this is a good choice.

    One can buy a very complete microcontroller including the full BT stack, ARM CPU, and loads of IO that is pretty much a standalone BT device and device controller all in one chip for $6-9 OEM pricing in about 5K quantity. For this, that means that Lupine probably can add this functionality for an additional cost of about $5 and get the BT functionality for free. That's a great bargain and lots of value add that can be had for very low costs and some programming.

    I'm in for a Betty R. I was going to wait the new Wilma R but I needed it now, and hopefully with the light cannon that this thing is, I'll not upgrading for a good long time. Too, the Betty head is marginally bigger than the Wilma head so there is not much size difference either. I'm really looking forward to the handlebar control and the ease of setting up the programming modes via something more human friendly than stupid button pushes.

    J.

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    Don't know whats up with the (quote's) above as their showing my name on rootmaster's quote and his name on mine and a mix of both.

    JohnJ80 Have you spoken to Bill or Dan yet to confirm the availability of the new Betty-R? Are you planning on putting the Betty on your lid?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Don't know whats up with the (quote's) above as their showing my name on rootmaster's quote and his name on mine and a mix of both.

    JohnJ80 Have you spoken to Bill or Dan yet to confirm the availability of the new Betty-R? Are you planning on putting the Betty on your lid?
    Yep. Spoke to them a few days ago. They have Betty's in stock but not too many. Expecting Wilmas by month end or in early November, Pikos I think they have now or will have shortly.

    I'll be using it on the bars for both road and fatbike (winter) usage. I have a 1200 lumen Piko for the helmet and/or a Wilma 2400 lumen light. I may sell both however (probably will) and upgrade to the newer Piko.

    Really a limited time to use helmet lights here - especially bright ones. The lights attract a lot of bugs and I can't stand that. We need a good hard frost or two and then the helmet lights will be fine.



    J.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Yep. Spoke to them a few days ago. They have Betty's in stock but not too many. Expecting Wilmas by month end or in early November, Pikos I think they have now or will have shortly.

    I'll be using it on the bars for both road and fatbike (winter) usage. I have a 1200 lumen Piko for the helmet and/or a Wilma 2400 lumen light. I may sell both however (probably will) and upgrade to the newer Piko.

    Really a limited time to use helmet lights here - especially bright ones. The lights attract a lot of bugs and I can't stand that. We need a good hard frost or two and then the helmet lights will be fine.



    J.


    I often forget about riders in the southern area's of me and the bug issues you guys have with helmet lights. Where I am,, in the summer months it's light out till 10:30 so very rarely a night ride, and in the winter months no bugs because of the cold. A can't imagine what it must be like other than riding in a snow storm for me in comparison,(maybe a slight exaggeration).

    I'm thinking you will need the power of you Wilma to compete with that new Betty JJ.

  32. #32
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    New Lupine Rotlicht mount

    Some Lupine news 2015/2016-lupine_rotlicht-redlight_high-power-led-taillight-smart-brake-sensor_saddle-rail-mount.jpg
    Looking for power lights?, see here

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    I often forget about riders in the southern area's of me and the bug issues you guys have with helmet lights. Where I am,, in the summer months it's light out till 10:30 so very rarely a night ride, and in the winter months no bugs because of the cold. A can't imagine what it must be like other than riding in a snow storm for me in comparison,(maybe a slight exaggeration).

    I'm thinking you will need the power of you Wilma to compete with that new Betty JJ.
    I'm up here in MN where it's been warm. As long at the temp is above about 50-55F, you get bugs in the Northwoods.

    Quote Originally Posted by pabcor View Post
    New Lupine Rotlicht mount

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Lupine_Rotlicht-Redlight_high-power-LED-taillight-with-smart-brake-sensor_saddle-rail-mount.jpg 
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    I think Lupine screwed up this mount. It doesn't look possible to have a seat bag with this. The mount needed to push the light aft a bit instead of occupying expensive real estate right under the seat. This is a fail as far as I'm concerend especially since the Lupine mount doesn't look like it would work well mounted to a chainstay. Otherwise, it's a great light but extremely limited mount options. That's really unlike Lupine. Usually they have a lot of ways to mount their lights - at least on the front.

  34. #34
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    I dont think I would use that tail light mount under the seat on the rails. I would use the seatpost mount or even mount it below the seatpost collar on the seat tube area of my frame. Depends on your frame for this type of mount though. Lupine says more mounts coming on the lupinenorthamerica site, so we will see if more come out. Obviously you could rig up a quick mount to your pack, seatbag, or back of helmet in short order if needed. When it comes to mounting lights sometimes you can come up with better ideas than what is intended from the light manufacturer.

  35. #35
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    As far as the new Lupines go, I think they are really nice, though I dont have a smart phone. I guess you can program it from a computer or tablet too as well as manually. 5,000 lumens Betty is just sick lol. I would like to see them offer neutral tints as the 6000k that Lupine uses isnt my preference. I like anywhere from 4000k-5000k. I really like my Nitecore MT G2 flashlight which at 5000k I consider on the border of neutral and cool. At the same time I love my warmer 4,400k zebralight which I can detect a tiny bit of rose coloring in the beam, but it makes the colors look vibrant. If Lupine offered neutral tints then I wouldnt have anything left to fault them on and might even sell my old lupines for the new stuff. I realize some people are happy with the 6000k color, but it's just my preference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    I think Lupine screwed up this mount. It doesn't look possible to have a seat bag with this.
    CatEye is selling identical mount as an option for long time BTW. In some cases, this is very good solution: for example, if rack-mounted bag is obstructing the light on the seatpost...

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusHQ View Post
    I dont think I would use that tail light mount under the seat on the rails. I would use the seatpost mount or even mount it below the seatpost collar on the seat tube area of my frame. Depends on your frame for this type of mount though. Lupine says more mounts coming on the lupinenorthamerica site, so we will see if more come out. Obviously you could rig up a quick mount to your pack, seatbag, or back of helmet in short order if needed. When it comes to mounting lights sometimes you can come up with better ideas than what is intended from the light manufacturer.
    Below the seat collar starts to have a lot of stuff in the way like tires, chainstays etc... depending on the bike - so you can't count on it. Too, when things start to get too low on the seatpost and if they are wide enough, they can interfere with your legs (problem for me).

    What I would have liked to see Lupine do is to have it mount to the seat rails in back and then go horizontal and then down. Just leave enough room for a seat bag (most don't go aft of the edge of the seat). Or make a narrower mount so it would fit on a chainstay like other lights I have.

    J.

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    Lupine and BT tech

    I think Lupine has correctly assumed that anyone willing to lay the money out for one of their premium bike lights ( > $700 ) also already owns a phone with BT capability. I like the idea of having a lamp that is capable of being programmed from the phone. Like most people I always bring my phone with me anyway whenever I ride. Not a big deal anyway since once I have the settings I want dialed in ( might take a couple rides to do that ) I'm done.

    And speaking of BT programmability, I WISH the Gloworm lamps had that option rather than the "button" programming. The reason being is that when using the Gloworms, "If you press the mode buttons too quickly ( while changing modes ) the lamp will accidentally enter the program mode". This of course is a PITA and one of the few short comings of the newer GW lamps. Of course as long as you remember not to rapid fire the remote button you're fine. Still, there are times when you just forget.

    Okay so you don't own a smart phone...yet...or perhaps don't want one. That's fine. If you can't afford the data plans..okay, I understand. The good news is you don't have to purchase a data plan to own a smart phone. Likely you can pick up a used smart phone ( or buy a cheap Chinese smart phone ) for super cheap. Even if not with a phone ( data ) plan the S-phone will still operate online with Wi-Fi which will allow you to download any needed apps. You can also download a lot of OTHER apps as well, including those for navigation. Some of those apps will even let you down load complete maps so you won't even need to be on-line to navigate. Yeah, it's doing it the hard way but it can work. A used ( or cheap-o Chinese ) smart phone with BT ( and Wi-fi ) shouldn't cost a boat load of money. I've seen used smart phones that some people are almost giving away.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    I think Lupine has correctly assumed that anyone willing to lay the money out for one of their premium bike lights ( > $700 ) also already owns a phone with BT capability. I like the idea of having a lamp that is capable of being programmed from the phone. Like most people I always bring my phone with me anyway whenever I ride. Not a big deal anyway since once I have the settings I want dialed in ( might take a couple rides to do that ) I'm done.

    And speaking of BT programmability, I WISH the Gloworm lamps had that option rather than the "button" programming. The reason being is that when using the Gloworms, "If you press the mode buttons too quickly ( while changing modes ) the lamp will accidentally enter the program mode". This of course is a PITA and one of the few short comings of the newer GW lamps. Of course as long as you remember not to rapid fire the remote button you're fine. Still, there are times when you just forget.

    Okay so you don't own a smart phone...yet...or perhaps don't want one. That's fine. If you can't afford the data plans..okay, I understand. The good news is you don't have to purchase a data plan to own a smart phone. Likely you can pick up a used smart phone ( or buy a cheap Chinese smart phone ) for super cheap. Even if not with a phone ( data ) plan the S-phone will still operate online with Wi-Fi which will allow you to download any needed apps. You can also download a lot of OTHER apps as well, including those for navigation. Some of those apps will even let you down load complete maps so you won't even need to be on-line to navigate. Yeah, it's doing it the hard way but it can work. A used ( or cheap-o Chinese ) smart phone with BT ( and Wi-fi ) shouldn't cost a boat load of money. I've seen used smart phones that some people are almost giving away.
    The number of people who have access to a BT enabled smartphone is a high percentage of the population. That, coupled with the insanely cheap cost of a CPU that has a BT radio on board and has enough IO to run the rest of the product should almost become a defacto feature set on almost anything like this.

    There is *always* someone who will chime in that they have a 10 button flip phone and don't plan on changing. Okay..... but that's probably asking the other 80+% of the population to bend to their wishes. As you go younger and as you go more affluent (the people that buy this stuff), the percentages are going to be even higher. I doubt that there is anything more than a very small percentage of users who would not buy such a product just beause it's programming was smartphone based. My sense is that the people that speak against this wouldn't have bought it anyway.

    J.

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    You may be able to use a cheap android tablet such as this

    9" Google Android 4 4 KitKat Tablet PC A33 Quad Core HD 8GB Dual Camera Wi Fi | eBay

    I have no idea if this particular tablet actually works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    You may be able to use a cheap android tablet such as this

    9" Google Android 4 4 KitKat Tablet PC A33 Quad Core HD 8GB Dual Camera Wi Fi | eBay

    I have no idea if this particular tablet actually works.
    Is the app available in either the iPhone or Android app store yet?

    J

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Is the app available in either the iPhone or Android app store yet?

    J
    I don't see it in the google play store
    https://play.google.com/store/search...t&c=apps&hl=en

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    Well not that I am interested in buying another Lupine anyway right now, but I do have tablets with Bluetooth, but a ten inch tablet isn't the best option for handlebar mount lol. Maybe I am just being stubborn and cheap when it comes to smart phones I guess. It's the pricey data plan that bugs me. I can find something better to do with that money every month like buy more lights lol. Right now I buy a twenty dollar tracfone card every two months and I'm good and use a five dollar cell phone. I have a Garmin edge GPS for logging my rides on my bike and my car already has GPS so that part of a smart phone doesn't do much for me so it's hard to justify monthly costs. Buying a cheap Bluetooth phone without the data plan is a good suggestion though.

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    The one thing that you have to be careful of is that bluetooth has separate parts called profiles that each do specific things:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tooth_profiles

    People that are interesting in using the app with a non-phone will have to make sure that their device actually has the specific profile that Lupine is using. It may or not be an issue. It probably won't be an issue if you have an iphone.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    The one thing that you have to be careful of is that bluetooth has separate parts called profiles that each do specific things:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tooth_profiles

    People that are interesting in using the app with a non-phone will have to make sure that their device actually has the specific profile that Lupine is using. It may or not be an issue. It probably won't be an issue if you have an iphone.
    It may match one of the BT profiles, but it's still going to have application dependent stuff going on (Application layer). So you'll still need to run the application from Lupine.

    J.

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    Any Betty R owners tempted by the Cateye Volt 6000?

    My Betty R has an annoying tendency to step down in power relatively quickly when the airflow is insufficient in warmer weather. I understand that this is a thermal protection feature but when I'm picking my way down a hair-raising descent the last thing I want is less light. Consequently, the new Volt 6000 intrigues me due to its built-in cooling fan. Having the extra lumens would be a nice bonus as well!

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    Quote Originally Posted by stu06 View Post
    My Betty R has an annoying tendency to step down in power relatively quickly when the airflow is insufficient in warmer weather. I understand that this is a thermal protection feature but when I'm picking my way down a hair-raising descent the last thing I want is less light. Consequently, the new Volt 6000 intrigues me due to its built-in cooling fan. Having the extra lumens would be a nice bonus as well!
    So you are going down slow at full out on the Betty?

    J.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    ;

    So you are going down slow at full out on the Betty?

    J.
    Yes, I unfortunately need A LOT of light to see clearly at night. When I enter a movie theater after the house lights have dimmed I can't see anything and have to hold my wife's shoulder. Pretty pathetic!

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by stu06 View Post
    Yes, I unfortunately need A LOT of light to see clearly at night. When I enter a movie theater after the house lights have dimmed I can't see anything and have to hold my wife's shoulder. Pretty pathetic!
    Got it. Night vision is not your thing, I guess. The Betty has an awful lot of light.

    Maybe you'd be better of with two Wilma's at 3200 lumens each. They are not that much smaller in volume than a Betty but significantly less power being dissipated in that same volume.

    J.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Got it. Night vision is not your thing, I guess. The Betty has an awful lot of light.

    Maybe you'd be better of with two Wilma's at 3200 lumens each. They are not that much smaller in volume than a Betty but significantly less power being dissipated in that same volume.

    J.
    Now THAT'S thinking outside of the box! Thanks for the suggestion. I am interested, however, in seeing beam shots of the Cateye. I read that the Cob LED technology allows for a wider-angle beam which is what I prefer on the bar. Hopefully MTBR will test the Cateye in their light shootout this year.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by stu06 View Post
    Yes, I unfortunately need A LOT of light to see clearly at night. When I enter a movie theater after the house lights have dimmed I can't see anything and have to hold my wife's shoulder. Pretty pathetic!
    I don't think I'd use the word, "pathetic" but from what you have described you have a very serious condition. If you already haven't done so you need to consult an ophthalmologist. Your condition might be treatable.

    Personally I have very good night vision but with my last examination the Doctor told me I have the starting stages of cataracts. Not surprising to me as my father had cataracts as well. He did tell me it was nothing to worry about at the time and that most people show the same signs. ( I'm in my 60's )

    It can't hurt to read up on your type of vision problem. The web is full of information.

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    Just a heads up for the Betty owners who prefer a neutral tint. Dan from Gretna bikes just confirmed they will have 4900K boards in stock next week due to the interest they have had from owners of Lupine lights.

    Stu06 did you order yours yet??

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Just a heads up !for the Betty owners who prefer a neutral tint. Dan from Gretna bikes just confirmed they will have 4900K boards in stock next week due to the interest they have had from owners of Lupine lights.

    Stu06 did you order yours yet??
    I think you know me pretty well! Not yet, but I'll check their website to see if they're accepting pre-orders. I'll report back after I get them!

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    What's the tint on the Betty now? Mine looks pretty neutral (i.e. around 5000k or so). Is that for the upgrade board or what is shipping in Bettys now?

    J.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    What's the tint on the Betty now? Mine looks pretty neutral (i.e. around 5000k or so). Is that for the upgrade board or what is shipping in Bettys now?

    J.
    The latest Bettys are 6000K stock, although I believe you can order the 4900K as an option. The 4900K is for the upgrade.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by stu06 View Post
    I think you know me pretty well! Not yet, but I'll check their website to see if they're accepting pre-orders. I'll report back after I get them!
    Sometimes it may take a lot longer waiting for a new, or (Special) order to show up on their website. If you want it sooner than later I would either email Dan, or call him to place your order. If not listed on website it will need to be ordered over the phone. Over the years this is what I have done at times to speed up the process.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Sometimes it may take a lot longer waiting for a new, or (Special) order to show up on their website. If you want it sooner than later I would either email Dan, or call him to place your order. If not listed on website it will need to be ordered over the phone. Over the years this is what I have done at times to speed up the process.
    Hmm. I just got the new Betty this year (several weeks ago). It sure doesn't look that blue to me. Looks much more like the 5000K light bulbs I have from Phillips in some places in my house.

    I will say this, though - the 2016 Betty is silly bright at 5000 lumens. The new Wilma would have been enough, but looks like they made the Wilma slightly larger so there isn't much of a size difference between the two anymore.

    J.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Hmm. I just got the new Betty this year (several weeks ago). It sure doesn't look that blue to me. Looks much more like the 5000K light bulbs I have from Phillips in some places in my house.

    I will say this, though - the 2016 Betty is silly bright at 5000 lumens. The new Wilma would have been enough, but looks like they made the Wilma slightly larger so there isn't much of a size difference between the two anymore.

    J.
    My understanding is the new Betty-R comes with the XM-L2 U-4 leds. I believe those are 6000K boards. I'm not clear that Lupine is sending the Betty's with the 4900K boards unless requested.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    My understanding is the new Betty-R comes with the XM-L2 U-4 leds. I believe those are 6000K boards. I'm not clear that Lupine is sending the Betty's with the 4900K boards unless requested.
    I'm not disagreeing at all. It's just that I don't think my Betty LEDs look that blue. Maybe mine somehow is 4900K. I have good color/hue discrimination as an aptitude and it really looks to me to be very similar to the 5000K LED A19 lights one gets at Home Depot for your house. I haven't compared it to some 5000K reference or anything like that.

    All of the LEDs are color binned anyhow. It all depend on what Lupine is asking for from their supplier.

    J.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    I'm not disagreeing at all. It's just that I don't think my Betty LEDs look that blue. Maybe mine somehow is 4900K. I have good color/hue discrimination as an aptitude and it really looks to me to be very similar to the 5000K LED A19 lights one gets at Home Depot for your house. I haven't compared it to some 5000K reference or anything like that.

    All of the LEDs are color binned anyhow. It all depend on what Lupine is asking for from their supplier.

    J.
    My older Betty-R's are using XM-L U2 emitters not 100% sure on the K rating but I thought also around 6000K. I agree with you that although a white light I find them warmer than my old betty which was using the XPG-R5's. You may have a better knowledge than me in what you are seeing. At the end of the day the question is,,,, Are you happy with your Betty-R???? I already know the answer lol.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    My older Betty-R's are using XM-L U2 emitters not 100% sure on the K rating but I though also around 6000K. I agree with you that although a white light I find them warmer than my old betty which was using the XPG-R5's. You may have a better knowledge than me in what you are seeing. At the end of the day the question is,,,, Are you happy with your Betty-R???? I already know the answer lol.
    Yeah, I am happy with it. I bought it primarily for the remote control because I'm using it on my road bike at speed in hilly areas. The Betty-R was out first and I knew that 5000 lumens was almost certainly over the top end of what I needed in brightness so I wouldn't be buying up in a year (again). In all practicality, the Wilma-R at 3400 lumens is probably just right but it's just about the same size as the Betty-R and it wasn't available when I needed it.

    The second thing was that I needed a bit more than my Wilma 2400 provided so an upgrade was probably in the cards.

    The remote is super. At a 30mph descent, I *love* not having to reach for the light to turn the brightness up or down for traffic or terrain. I just move my thumb and I'm good. Too, the set up with the smartphone app is really nice. Makes it super easy.

    But the 5000 lumens is overkill. I find that I have my light set up for roughly doubling of light at each of three button pushes - 1200, 2600 and 5000. That correlates well with how we *see* light with the human eye too. I think that the Wilma-R is probably the perfect light.

    What I think is deficient about the new remote set up with the Lupine lights is that there needs to be a UI where you can have a dim and bright setting then a hold the button setting where it goes to a predetermined brightness. I'd alternately have that long press setting be either the (a) center led for things like camping, (b) full bright at 5000 lumens or (c) flashing. I'd set it up for two brightness levels on the normal press so it would essentially alternate from high beam to low beam. Then the long press would go to one of the three modes listed above. Something like that would be the icing on the cake. Hopefully, them made these lights so they are software upgradeable so that when they figure out what I just asked for, they can implement with a field update.

    Does anyone know what the upgrade light board to the Wilma 2400 would do in terms of light output?

    If anyone wants a Wilma 1500 lumen light, I have one to sell and it would be reasonable.

    J.

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    The Wilma 2400 runs at 28 watts when it's on the max setting. The latest Wilma R 3200 also runs at 28 watts max.

    That means that, theoretically, the Wilma 2400 will put out close to 3200 lumens after being upgraded with the latest upgrade package that will eventually be available at Wilma LED Upgrade "Switch at Lamphead" and AR Frontcap, wilma-upgrade-lens-switch-LED-lamphead - GRETNA BIKES.com LLC, LUPINE North America.

    The Wilma 1200/1300/1500 versions maxed out at 19 watts. After the latest upgrade, the 19 watt versions of the Wilma will output approximately 2300 lumens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post

    Does anyone know what the upgrade light board to the Wilma 2400 would do in terms of light output?

    J.
    The Wilma 2400 runs at 28 watts when it's on the max setting. The latest Wilma R 3200 also runs at 28 watts max.

    That means that, theoretically, the Wilma 2400 will put out close to 3200 lumens after being upgraded with the latest upgrade package that will eventually be available at Wilma LED Upgrade "Switch at Lamphead" and AR Frontcap, wilma-upgrade-lens-switch-LED-lamphead - GRETNA BIKES.com LLC, LUPINE North America.

    The Wilma 1200/1300/1500 versions maxed out at 19 watts. After the latest upgrade, the 19 watt versions of the Wilma will output approximately 2300 lumens.

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    Cool - excellent. I'll upgrade it. I have it on my fatbike for beach and snow riding at night. That would work well.

    J.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stu06 View Post
    I think you know me pretty well! Not yet, but I'll check their website to see if they're accepting pre-orders. I'll report back after I get them!
    Hey stu06,,, just checking to see what the word is? I was looking on Gretna's website and only see the XM-L2 U-4 upgrade board for the Wilma,,, nothing else for any light.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Hey stu06,,, just checking to see what the word is? I was looking on Gretna's website and only see the XM-L2 U-4 upgrade board for the Wilma,,, nothing else for any light.
    Nothing yet. I think Gretna's "It'll be in next week" is akin to a fine restaurant stating "The wait is 20 minutes." I'm losing interest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stu06 View Post
    Nothing yet. I think Gretna's "It'll be in next week" is akin to a fine restaurant stating "The wait is 20 minutes." I'm losing interest.
    Hey stu06, I know you have been loosing some interest waiting for the new 4900K boards to arrive at Gretna,,, I thought I'd give you a heads up anyways as their now in stock!!! If interested just click on the (upgrades) ikon. Cheers!!

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Hey stu06, I know you have been loosing some interest waiting for the new 4900K boards to arrive at Gretna,,, I thought I'd give you a heads up anyways as their now in stock!!! If interested just click on the (upgrades) ikon. Cheers!!
    Anyone know if there is any chance that Lupine will include a choice of neutral tint ( 4900K board ) for the new Wilma-R?

    When Lupine first announced it was offering a choice on emitter tint I was thrilled. Sadly the Wilma-R was not included for some reason. I was actually considering buying a Wilma-R since I thought it might make the perfect helmet lamp. Yeah, I'd have to lay down some cash but for the perfect helmet lamp ( with wireless remote and 3200 lumen ) I figured it would be worth it.

    Not going to go that route though unless I can buy it with the neutral boards.

    And now for a dumb question: If the battery in the remote goes out while on a ride can you still control the lamp from the lamp head?

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Anyone know if there is any chance that Lupine will include a choice of neutral tint ( 4900K board ) for the new Wilma-R?

    When Lupine first announced it was offering a choice on emitter tint I was thrilled. Sadly the Wilma-R was not included for some reason. I was actually considering buying a Wilma-R since I thought it might make the perfect helmet lamp. Yeah, I'd have to lay down some cash but for the perfect helmet lamp ( with wireless remote and 3200 lumen ) I figured it would be worth it.

    Not going to go that route though unless I can buy it with the neutral boards.

    And now for a dumb question: If the battery in the remote goes out while on a ride can you still control the lamp from the lamp head?
    Yes the lamp heads can be controlled without the remote as they still have a control button on the lamp head itself.

    Sorry Cat I wish I had the news you wanted for the new Wilma, but so far Dan at Gretna disclosed neutral boards for the Betty-R and Piko. Would the Piko interest you or are you lusting for the Wilma to much??

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    ....Sorry Cat I wish I had the news you wanted for the new Wilma, but so far Dan at Gretna disclosed neutral boards for the Betty-R and Piko. Would the Piko interest you or are you lusting for the Wilma to much??
    Thanks for the feedback indebt. Nope, the Piko not enough output and the Betty-R is overkill ( both in lumen and in price ). The Wilma-R ( with neutral board ) might have been the sweet spot. Makes no sense why the Wilma-R would not be included with a neutral board option. If a company is going to offer neutral boards it makes no sense not to include your most popular lamp. If I didn't know any better I would swear they are doing this just so I won't buy one.

    Anyway, FWIW I'm in the market for a full powered neutral XM-L2 or XP-L HI quad set-up for the helmet. Can't be too heavy though. Wireless remote would be sweet but weight, beam pattern and output (2400-3000 Neutral LED lumen ) are the "must have's"

    I might have gone for the DiNotte quad if they offered a neutral option and stayed with the original optics.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Thanks for the feedback indebt. Nope, the Piko not enough output and the Betty-R is overkill ( both in lumen and in price ). The Wilma-R ( with neutral board ) might have been the sweet spot. Makes no sense why the Wilma-R would not be included with a neutral board option. If a company is going to offer neutral boards it makes no sense not to include your most popular lamp. If I didn't know any better I would swear they are doing this just so I won't buy one.

    Anyway, FWIW I'm in the market for a full powered neutral XM-L2 or XP-L HI quad set-up for the helmet. Can't be too heavy though. Wireless remote would be sweet but weight, beam pattern and output (2400-3000 Neutral LED lumen ) are the "must have's"

    I might have gone for the DiNotte quad if they offered a neutral option and stayed with the original optics.

    I've sent out emails to Dan at Gretna about the Wilma as well as Full-Beam/MyTinySun to see if there are neutral tint options for you. I'll keep you posted when I hear back. Cheers!!

    That Dinotte Quad looks heavy (218grams) if I read the specs right. Don't think you would want that on your lid.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    I've sent out emails to Dan at Gretna about the Wilma as well as Full-Beam/MyTinySun to see if there are neutral tint options for you. I'll keep you posted when I hear back. Cheers!!

    That Dinotte Quad looks heavy (218grams) if I read the specs right. Don't think you would want that on your lid.
    Not sure but I think the 218 grams might be the weight with battery. Gosh I wish I owned my own scale. Doesn't matter anyway because DiNotte doesn't do neutral LED's and they did change the optics on the XML-4. ( notice the little circles on the lenses ) I think the newer optics create a wider beam pattern but I've not confirmed that.

    The quad Solarstorm XT40 I now use is not too heavy for helmet use but it's a cheap Chinese lamp and output is limited to about 1500-1800 lumen. It's fine for now but I could wish for another 500-1000 lumen off the lid ( with the same beam pattern ).

    Let me know what the Lupine people say about a neutral board for the new Wilma-R.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Not sure but I think the 218 grams might be the weight with battery. Gosh I wish I owned my own scale. Doesn't matter anyway because DiNotte doesn't do neutral LED's and they did change the optics on the XML-4. ( notice the little circles on the lenses ) I think the newer optics create a wider beam pattern but I've not confirmed that.

    The quad Solarstorm XT40 I now use is not too heavy for helmet use but it's a cheap Chinese lamp and output is limited to about 1500-1800 lumen. It's fine for now but I could wish for another 500-1000 lumen off the lid ( with the same beam pattern ).

    Let me know what the Lupine people say about a neutral board for the new Wilma-R.
    I just received a response from Dan at Gretna. Lupine Germany is have difficulty keeping up with demands on the Wilma-R that they haven't had time for 4900K boards. He couldn't confirm if and when Lupine would have these available but did confirm one could order the Piko wth 4900K board. My best guess is they will have this option when Lupine catches their breath as they clearly are listening to their customers with the other two lamps already.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Hey stu06, I know you have been loosing some interest waiting for the new 4900K boards to arrive at Gretna,,, I thought I'd give you a heads up anyways as their now in stock!!! If interested just click on the (upgrades) ikon. Cheers!!
    Hey Indebt,

    Thanks for the heads up! I went ahead and ordered the upgrade. I'll let you know if it was money well-spent!

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    Quote Originally Posted by stu06 View Post
    Hey Indebt,

    Thanks for the heads up! I went ahead and ordered the upgrade. I'll let you know if it was money well-spent!
    Your welcome!! I was close to pulling the trigger on a couple boards myself today,,,,, but between the brutal Canadian dollar and been off work the past three months trying to heal up I decided I better not. Looking forward to your opinion.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    I just received a response from Dan at Gretna. Lupine Germany is have difficulty keeping up with demands on the Wilma-R that they haven't had time for 4900K boards. He couldn't confirm if and when Lupine would have these available but did confirm one could order the Piko wth 4900K board. My best guess is they will have this option when Lupine catches their breath as they clearly are listening to their customers with the other two lamps already.
    Yeah, well it doesn't make sense to me. If they are having trouble keeping with demand that means the product is selling and they need to manufacture more parts etc. All they have to do is order some boards with the same neutral LED's as the others. Whats' so hard about that? If the Chinese can do it why can't Lupine?...

    That said the decision to "NOT" make neutral boards for the Wilma-R from the git-go was a poor business decision and makes no sense. This leaves the present Wilma owners ( or potential Wilma-R owners ) feeling like, "Someone is pouring a warm yellow liquid down their leg" and then telling them when the "yellow rain" stops they will try to get around to helping them out...maybe...In the mean time it's, "Get to the back of the line and wait for your number to be called". Somehow I thought Lupine was better than that.

    Anyway, like you said, by the time they decide to "catch their breath" it's quite possible other companies ( including the Chinese ) will produce a product that could be what I ( and others ) are looking for ( and likely cost a lot less ). A lamp with duel neutral XHP-50's could have a 3000 lumen output without any problems at all. Sooner or later someone will start using these and my guess by next year I expect to see more super-bright / affordable "Neutral LED" helmet lamp options.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Yeah, well it doesn't make sense to me. If they are having trouble keeping with demand that means the product is selling and they need to manufacture more parts etc. All they have to do is order some boards with the same neutral LED's as the others. Whats' so hard about that? If the Chinese can do it why can't Lupine?...

    That said the decision to "NOT" make neutral boards for the Wilma-R from the git-go was a poor business decision and makes no sense. This leaves the present Wilma owners ( or potential Wilma-R owners ) feeling like, "Someone is pouring a warm yellow liquid down their leg" and then telling them when the "yellow rain" stops they will try to get around to helping them out...maybe...In the mean time it's, "Get to the back of the line and wait for your number to be called". Somehow I thought Lupine was better than that.

    Anyway, like you said, by the time they decide to "catch their breath" it's quite possible other companies ( including the Chinese ) will produce a product that could be what I ( and others ) are looking for ( and likely cost a lot less ). A lamp with duel neutral XHP-50's could have a 3000 lumen output without any problems at all. Sooner or later someone will start using these and my guess by next year I expect to see more super-bright / affordable "Neutral LED" helmet lamp options.
    For some reason I thought Lupine made the led boards in house? I'm probably wrong on that but i'll try to confirm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Your welcome!! I was close to pulling the trigger on a couple boards myself today,,,,, but between the brutal Canadian dollar and been off work the past three months trying to heal up I decided I better not. Looking forward to your opinion.
    Hey Indebt,

    Upgraded my Bettys with the 4900K boards and I'm pleased to report that it's awesome. The neutral tint is much easier on the eyes and the glare issue has been virtually eliminated. Now when descending at full chat I have a much better view of the trail details with significantly less eye strain. Hope your rehab goes well!

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by stu06 View Post
    Hey Indebt,

    Upgraded my Bettys with the 4900K boards and I'm pleased to report that it's awesome. The neutral tint is much easier on the eyes and the glare issue has been virtually eliminated. Now when descending at full chat I have a much better view of the trail details with significantly less eye strain. Hope your rehab goes well!
    Glad to hear!! How do you find the actual output compared to before? You had two different powered Betty's right? What leds were in each before,,,, if you know?

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    For some reason I thought Lupine made the led boards in house? I'm probably wrong on that but i'll try to confirm.
    Doubt it. But if they are, they shouldn't be. There are no doubt plenty of local small contract assemblers that would do it better and cheaper than Lupine could. Very few companies, even for small volume, assemble their own stuff anymore.

    J.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Glad to hear!! How do you find the actual output compared to before? You had two different powered Betty's right? What leds were in each before,,,, if you know?
    I have the 3600-lumen (XM-L) and 4500-lumen (XML-2) models. The increase from 3600 to 4400 lumens is definitely noticeable; the increase from 4500 to 500 is very slight. But it's difficult to assess because of the different tints. I do notice, however, that I'm descending faster than before. I think I've finally reached lighting nirvana.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stu06 View Post
    I have the 3600-lumen (XM-L) and 4500-lumen (XML-2) models. The increase from 3600 to 4400 lumens is definitely noticeable; the increase from 4500 to 500 is very slight. But it's difficult to assess because of the different tints. I do notice, however, that I'm descending faster than before. I think I've finally reached lighting nirvana.
    LOL. Hard to believe the Lumen Wars are coming to a close.

    I bought a Betty this year because it was available before the new Wilma and because I wanted to get out of the annual upgrade cycle. Also, the new Wilma is approaching the Betty size, so I figured I might as well pony up for the top end and be done. 5000 lumens is a lot of light and I can safely say that I have exceeded what I see as the max I need. Truly, I think that the 3400 lumen Wilma is probably about it.

    But I have to say, the remote capabilities of the light and the ability to configure it with a smartphone app is brilliant. I could never remember the sequences to program with button and this app makes is so much easier.

    J.

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    Will a Wilma and Piko go out of sequence using the bluetooth button? There is mention of them going out of sequence in this thread: 2016 Gemini lights? Post # 84. This happened with the older lights. Checking to see if it is an issue with the new lights.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by stu06 View Post
    I have the 3600-lumen (XM-L) and 4500-lumen (XML-2) models. The increase from 3600 to 4400 lumens is definitely noticeable; the increase from 4500 to 500 is very slight. But it's difficult to assess because of the different tints. I do notice, however, that I'm descending faster than before. I think I've finally reached lighting nirvana.
    Considering Both my Betty-R's are the 3600 lumen versions this would be a sweet and noticeable upgrade in both output and improved color rendition. Now only if the damn Canadian dollar would smarten up, lol.

    Thanx for your update!!!

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by stu06 View Post
    I have the 3600-lumen (XM-L) and 4500-lumen (XML-2) models. The increase from 3600 to 4400 lumens is definitely noticeable; the increase from 4500 to 500 is very slight. But it's difficult to assess because of the different tints. I do notice, however, that I'm descending faster than before. I think I've finally reached lighting nirvana.
    Funny story stu06 since we both like and need lots of quality output. I was on the Gretna bikes website,,, I read a review from a 2016 Betty-R owner. This fellow is riding with three 2016 Betty-R's on his XC bike and one 2016 Betty-R on his lid. That's right 20,000 actual lumens,,, yes I know to much even for me lol. Anyway he mentioned that one night he was riding in Palos Verdes Peninsula,CA and a police helicopter flew down on him to see what was making all the light.
    Last edited by indebt; 12-18-2015 at 01:40 PM.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Funny story stu06 since we both like and need lots of quality output. I was on the Gretna bikes website,,, I read a review from a 2016 Betty-R owner. This fellow is riding with three 2016 Betty-R's on his XC bike and one 2016 Betty-R on his lid. That's right 20,000 actual lumens,,, yes I know to much even for me lol. Anyway he mentioned that one night when he was riding in Palos Verdes Peninsula,CA and a police helicopter flew down on him to see what was making all the light.

    Hilarious! I keep getting in arguments on another forum with some of these guys who are all about beam shaping (cutoff beam) and then some paltry low lumen output like 500 lumens or so. For some reason, they are perfectly happy with car headlights being 1300 lumens, but put that on a bike and it's blinding bright to them (don't look at it!). They'd probably have a heart attack with this one. Be worth it to see what they say.

    J.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Hilarious! I keep getting in arguments on another forum with some of these guys who are all about beam shaping (cutoff beam) and then some paltry low lumen output like 500 lumens or so. For some reason, they are perfectly happy with car headlights being 1300 lumens, but put that on a bike and it's blinding bright to them (don't look at it!). They'd probably have a heart attack with this one. Be worth it to see what they say.

    J.
    I can only imagine the thoughts some will have on this one whether it be the 6lbs of weight, or the $5000 price tag, and of coarse why anyone would need that much light short of trying to set a land speed record at night.

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    Well, he'd probably really like the new "R" models. Can probably dim them all with one button push.

    Maybe the reason for all the lumens is if he ever screws up at speed, the lights will burn any obstacle up before he gets there. That, or he wears sunglasses at night.

    J.

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    Actually the car headlight argument has been had here too because comparing car headlights to bike led lights is like comparing apples to lettuce . Huge difference in application and beam pattern.

    That said, guys getting butt hurt over 1300 lumens is ridiculous. And the beam cutoff crap for trails has gotta be a personal preference (or they all ride in the open desert). I go for mix.

    But anything more than about 3000 lumens for a bar light to me screams compensating or night blindness/scared of the dark.

    I know a lot of guys that ride with nightrider 750s, but we know our trails and the are tight /twisty so its not east to gain enough speed to outrun lights easily. Then I come out with 1800 on the bars and 1200 on the lid lol. Ppl in front can see everything around them quite well

    The guys pumping out 20000 lumens on a mtb, seriously WTF???? How can you see anything unless there's no undergrowth/very dry air.

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    Agree.

    Beam cut off is really not a good idea for cyclists. We sit up higher than a car typically and even on the road, there can be branches and other overhead obstacles that would be exceptionally dangerous at night with a sharp cutoff light that may not bother a car. We also are usually on the side of the road where cars and vehicles don't often go and that's where the overhead stuff is. I ride in a wooded area on rural roads are there are *lots* of places where I need to divert to miss branches. On the trail, a cut off light would be the shortest route to the inpatient TBI ward at the local hospital.

    I've been riding with high lumen lights for more than a decade (and close to two) going back to the HID lamps. I've never had a problem with drivers or pedestrians complaining and I've always been able to resist looking directly at bright lights coming my way (don't understand why others can't too). The only comment I've ever had from pedestrians and other drivers was "cool light, where did you get it?" One of those exact comments was from a County Sheriff that passed me going the other way, made a U turn and came back then stopped ahead of me to ask me that very question. In my neck of the woods, looks like everyone thinks it is a win when cyclists have bright lights.

    I'll be the first to admit it - the Betty R I got this year has got more lumens than I need. That said, it is nice to have all that light for a high speed descent on my road bike.

    I sort of find that about 2000 lumens is kind of the upper limit on the helmet, at least where I live. There is either humidity in the summer, bugs or just dust/snow/etc that makes more than that counterproductive. Just the bugs around here in the summer makes a helmet light a non starter. They are attracting to the light and I wind up getting a face full (hint: keep your mouth shut).

    J.

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    I like cutoff on the road for bars, tilt down a little bit and everyone is happy. Didn't like wide angle cut off till I got it right, now I do for that purpose ( mole corrupted me lol)

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Funny story stu06 since we both like and need lots of quality output. I was on the Gretna bikes website,,, I read a review from a 2016 Betty-R owner. This fellow is riding with three 2016 Betty-R's on his XC bike and one 2016 Betty-R on his lid. That's right 20,000 actual lumens,,, yes I know to much even for me lol. Anyway he mentioned that one night he was riding in Palos Verdes Peninsula,CA and a police helicopter flew down on him to see what was making all the light.
    That's hilarious! I honestly cannot imagine the need for three Bettys on the bar. I mean, my night vision is poor and one on the bar is sufficient. Still, this is the same thing as having a mega-horsepower car. I can certainly understand the addiction! FWIW, the median home price in that area is around $1.2 million US. Can you say 1%?

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    Quote Originally Posted by stu06 View Post
    That's hilarious! I honestly cannot imagine the need for three Bettys on the bar. I mean, my night vision is poor and one on the bar is sufficient. Still, this is the same thing as having a mega-horsepower car. I can certainly understand the addiction! FWIW, the median home price in that area is around $1.2 million US. Can you say 1%?
    Yeah guessed this fellow had to be well off to buy four Betty-R's.

    On a different note I took the plunge and have two 4900K Betty-R boards and antireflective optics coming. Looking forward to the bump in output but more so the softer color rendition.

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    Im curious to find out about AR optics. Because optics are TIR, total internal reflection. Hopefully they do it right and its only on the front face of the optic, which will make the beam wider and smoother, anywhere else and light pattern would be a total mess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Im curious to find out about AR optics. Because optics are TIR, total internal reflection. Hopefully they do it right and its only on the front face of the optic, which will make the beam wider and smoother, anywhere else and light pattern would be a total mess.
    I will surely write up my findings as I never had any complaints with the 6000K leds and original optics. I'm trying not to expect to much in my head in advance so I'm not swayed in the reality of what my view is once trying out the new set up.

    From what I've read from a couple different posters,, I do expect some improvement in trail detail and output (not that I need anymore) as well as overall visual improvement if in fact the softer color rendition prevents the pupils from closing up as much as the cooler leds.

    Maybe if stu06 is reading this he can shed some light on the beam pattern/shape, and if there are any artifacts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Im curious to find out about AR optics. Because optics are TIR, total internal reflection. Hopefully they do it right and its only on the front face of the optic, which will make the beam wider and smoother, anywhere else and light pattern would be a total mess.
    I suspect Lupine hasn't thrown an untested AR optic on a $1000 light as these are stock on the new lights. If for some reason there is a flaw, what is it in the beam pattern that would be (a total mess?) so I know what to look for,, or will it be that obvious? When my new boards show up I will do the upgrade on just one light at first ,and then go test the new/old side by side before upgrading the second.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    I suspect Lupine hasn't thrown an untested AR optic on a $1000 light as these are stock on the new lights. If for some reason there is a flaw, what is it in the beam pattern that would be (a total mess?) so I know what to look for,, or will it be that obvious? When my new boards show up I will do the upgrade on just one light at first ,and then go test the new/old side by side before upgrading the second.
    That would be really interesting to see the side by side changes.

    I would be very surprised if Lupine hadn't thought this through. They are a pretty thorough bunch.

    J.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    That would be really interesting to see the side by side changes.

    I would be very surprised if Lupine hadn't thought this through. They are a pretty thorough bunch.

    J.
    I have to admit, I'm a bit of a novice when it comes to the tech side of optics putting aside beam angle. I know a lot more about leds color rendition, die size etc. So it will be interesting to learn more about what makes a good vs poor optic excluding beam angle.

    And yes I agree I'm sure too. JJ you have the 2016 Betty-R right? That betty should have come stock with the AR optics. How would you describe the beam pattern and are there any noticeable artifacts? Looking on Lupine's website,, based on the beam comparison the 2016 Betty looks to have a wider/smoother beam pattern.

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    With the optics its going to be artifacts and/or badly scattered beam pattern.

    I do wonder why the major optics companies haven't gone AR yet. Though for "tight spot" type use, AR coating will mess that up, but something designed for wide pattern already it could be interesting.

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    I've never heard of an AR optic. I would suppose that the coating would be applied to the part of the optic that sits closest to the emitter (?)...The concept behind AR is that the coating is supposed to lessen the reflective bounce-off from the light source ( giving more light transmission ). I can't see adding it to the front of the optic would really do anything since the optic itself is designed to shape and diffuse the output....but what the hell do I know...

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