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  1. #26
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nothing's impossible View Post
    why not save for a personal locator beacon instead of a knive?

    You might get attacked by an animal, chance is what? 1/1000 000 000???
    And even if you succeed in wounding and chasing away your the culprit, big chance you are left wounded and in shock without help. By the time people realise you are missing you might be in big problems and they have to start looking for you!

    Criminals? They will see you coming from miles away and hide and if they are really bold they'l just shoot you from a distance, no real help from a knive I'd say, but if you still manage to push the emergency button after being shot, you might stand a chance!

    Anyway, if you are so "prepared" (read as paranoid) that you grasp hold of a weapon to defend yourself in time to do so, the chance of hurting yourself or someone dear to you will be much bigger than the chance that you are actually attacked!

    I would consider buying a beacon if I would ride often in areas without cellphone coverage, a nasty fall is enough to get you into serious troubles, on a cold night even a stupid technical problem might turn a long fun bikeride into a dangerously long survivalhike!

    I do carry a leatherman during most of my solo rides. Well hidden in a pouch in my jerseypocket.
    It has 2 blades, mostly used to cut dried meat, it has a pliers, nice to be able to unscrew a tubeless valve or cut a wire tangled in the wheel,...
    It has inbus keys, torx keys, a file, a saw,.. nice to have, certainly if you realise you lost your multitool on the way, or if you realise the multitool doesn't have a torx keys but your bike does,...
    i do not agree with many of your assumptions, but thank you kindly for your input.

    ...always be appropriately prepared (to help others) and be happy

    have a good one.
    The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards & its fighting by fools.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nothing's impossible View Post


    So, With a few thousand lumen of light you are blinding the couple on its way to "the causy spot", irritated the guy reaches for his extreme bright torch to let you now you are blinding them. Now he notices the dive knive strapped on your leg which makes you look rather shady.


    The young boy, eager to protect and impress his new girlfriend might already have grasped his scoutingknive or taser or whatever weapon he's taken to protect him from wild animals and shady guys, you see him take his knive or whatever and decide it's time to grasp yours, the girl takes her pepperspray out of her handbag as she sees you grasping for your knive,...

    As you probably didn't have real training with the weapon, you didn't realise you should' ve stopped before taking the knive out, now, one of the best case scenario is something like: you took the knive while you were trying to stop with one hand, you loose the knive and a crash into a tree or something, the girl who didn't receive training either is spraying around in pannick so the three of you are blinded, and as she runs away she stumbles and sprains her ankle avoiding her to run away to far, and the cup scout keeps rather cool and doesn't do anything stupid. with some luck he uses his flashlight to send an emergency signal into the air, picked up by someone so you are all recovered and you get out of prison in a reasonable amount of time.

    If you had received weapon training, and you ended up using the knive it would be a lot longer in prison.

    But, if you had received weapon training, you wouldn't be mountainbiking with a dive knive strapped on your leg
    to have it strapped to leg would not be discreet, as I would not want to make anyone uncomfortable: there's a balance between discreet and legally compliant.

    back to topic: for urban use a folders' fine, but for an excursion in the woods at night i prefer a discreet and secured fixed blade of minimal weight, say under 8 ounces.

    I have training, by the way, ...to not fight, if that's is right.
    The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards & its fighting by fools.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freediver View Post
    I have been riding with these for years, granted it takes some time to dismantle the seats and you have to use a tandem all the time, but hey, no one messes with me.

    Seriously, when I was in the States I really wished I had some of that bear spray mace , we saw bears everywhere and then "slept" in a tent with our food tied on ropes between trees, I did not sleep much at all. That stuff must be pretty good against bad guys too?
    funny post, thanks.

    actually, a CA cop told me that possession of nunchucks can warrant a felony weapons charge as that's considered an "offensive" weapon while a pistol would be a mere misdemeanor, but a visible knife's legal. your experiences may vary.

    when we go backpacking, we bring our dog in the tent and hang up the food or secure in a container, downwind, among other precautions.

    maybe I'll join that night riding MTB group again, but I like picking my own schedule...
    The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards & its fighting by fools.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nothing's impossible View Post


    So, With a few thousand lumen of light you are blinding the couple on its way to "the causy spot", irritated the guy reaches for his extreme bright torch to let you now you are blinding them. Now he notices the dive knive strapped on your leg which makes you look rather shady.


    The young boy, eager to protect and impress his new girlfriend might already have grasped his scoutingknive or taser or whatever weapon he's taken to protect him from wild animals and shady guys, you see him take his knive or whatever and decide it's time to grasp yours, the girl takes her pepperspray out of her handbag as she sees you grasping for your knive,...

    As you probably didn't have real training with the weapon, you didn't realise you should' ve stopped before taking the knive out, now, one of the best case scenario is something like: you took the knive while you were trying to stop with one hand, you loose the knive and a crash into a tree or something, the girl who didn't receive training either is spraying around in pannick so the three of you are blinded, and as she runs away she stumbles and sprains her ankle avoiding her to run away to far, and the cup scout keeps rather cool and doesn't do anything stupid. with some luck he uses his flashlight to send an emergency signal into the air, picked up by someone so you are all recovered and you get out of prison in a reasonable amount of time.

    If you had received weapon training, and you ended up using the knive it would be a lot longer in prison.

    But, if you had received weapon training, you wouldn't be mountainbiking with a dive knive strapped on your leg
    I'm starting to think you're a troll, but I'll give it a go anyways.

    If you had read anything I typed you would know I carry a folding gerber knife in my back pocket. So that kills your whole crazy scenario, which is about as likely as getting attacked by a mountain lion, which I also said is not any realistic danger.

    If it bothers you people carry knives it must really bother you that people drive cars, because they are much more dangerous and require more responsibility.

    Don't let reality get in the way of your soap opera quality imagination though.

  5. #30
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    Trailnut, i can imagine a lot of stuff that I would rather carry than a fixed blade knive.

    If you believe that it is useful to carry one, go ahead, as I told before, the chance that you ever will use it for self defence is rather small, but it makes a cool toothpick ;-)

    The chance that you succeed in protecting yourself with a knife in case of an unexpected attack???

    Go volunteer as a bad guy for K9 training, even well trained pro's are bitten at least 3 times before they can "stab" the dog. and that are expected attacks, with the knive in the hand, not unecpected attacks while riding your bike with the knife well secured in a cover!

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nothing's impossible View Post
    Cat, You didn't bother reading it uh?

    The girl (probably spraying against the wind) blinded herself as much as her oponent
    Actually I was just pointing out that pepper spray ( used with common sense ) can be a very good deterrent and a very good ( non-lethal ) defensive weapon. If you doubt this just ask a police person. ( yeah, on a windy day might not be the best thing to use )

    Anyway, just the other day I was walking through REI and noticed they have the bear spray. I really don't know if it works but I'd feel better having it than not having it if I were in bear country. Some of that with some "bear bangers" ( those loud noise makers that sound like a shotgun going off ) and I'm good.

    Not to mention the spray could be used against a vicious dog or nut-job person who was threatening you. I also forgot to mention that using your bike as a shield also can work as a last minute defense. Don't know how well it would work against a bear but against a smaller animal like a dog can be very intimidating.

    As far as knifes go, if something was chewing on my arm or leg I'd feel better knowing I had a fighting chance if I had a knife on my person ( or already in my hand ). Don't think I'd use it against a human though.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nothing's impossible View Post
    Trailnut, i can imagine a lot of stuff that I would rather carry than a fixed blade knive.

    If you believe that it is useful to carry one, go ahead, as I told before, the chance that you ever will use it for self defence is rather small, but it makes a cool toothpick ;-)

    The chance that you succeed in protecting yourself with a knife in case of an unexpected attack???

    Go volunteer as a bad guy for K9 training, even well trained pro's are bitten at least 3 times before they can "stab" the dog. and that are expected attacks, with the knive in the hand, not unecpected attacks while riding your bike with the knife well secured in a cover!
    OK, i'll play along...

    ...after the 3rd bite, if you don't have a knife than what?
    if you're dead then you are at peace, but if you're still mobile then you must carry on to protect life around you...I'd prefer have a knife rather than resort to my unarmed training, that, I may guess, could be more extensive then the average cop in my fair city.

    the end really does not matter, but that at the moment of crisis if you've done the right thing then that is how you demonstrate love.

    having the courage to prepare shows respect and gratitude which may then brings luck or more thoughtful risk management.

    have a good one.
    Last edited by TrailNut; 11-30-2012 at 07:00 AM.
    The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards & its fighting by fools.

  8. #33
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    nevermind, not worth it

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailNut View Post
    OK, i'll play along: after the 3rd bite, if you don't a have a knife than what?
    if you're dead then you are at peace, but if you're still mobile then you are must carry on to protect life around you...I'd rather have a knife rather than resort to my unarmed training, that, I may guess, could be more extensive then the the average cop in my fair city.

    the end really does not matter, but that at the moment of crisis if you've done the right thing then that is how you demonstrate love.

    having the courage to prepare shows respect and gratitude which may then brings luck or more thoughtful risk management.

    have a good one.
    TrailNut, I fall into the boyscout mindset of always being prepared and always carry a pocket knife, not just for protection but also I'm injured and have to spend the night trailside. Just curious why you want a fixed blade. The folders will do everything you need it too except for maybe baton wood. Spyderco's are nice as they clip into your pocket on your baggy shorts or somewhere on your camelbak. If you must go fixed look at Esee Izula. Different configurations to fit your needs.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerider2 View Post
    ...If you must go fixed look at Esee Izula. Different configurations to fit your needs.
    another ESEE fan

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerider2 View Post
    TrailNut, I fall into the boyscout mindset of always being prepared and always carry a pocket knife, not just for protection but also I'm injured and have to spend the night trailside. Just curious why you want a fixed blade. The folders will do everything you need it too except for maybe baton wood. Spyderco's are nice as they clip into your pocket on your baggy shorts or somewhere on your camelbak. If you must go fixed look at Esee Izula. Different configurations to fit your needs.
    i have folder, but in the woods i'd prefer a fixed: 4" blade for biking.

    dirt can get in the action of a lock-folder and the fixed knife has the simpler presentation and better grip. if in the extremely unlikely event that trouble comes, fraction of a second might be just enough to sort things out. clip-ons can wiggle out, I have lost a Benchmade that way in a trail while riding, and a lock-folder in a sheath is secure, but might feel too slow to access while riding alone in the wooded canyons, at night, with eucalyptus trees creaking in the rainy wind and when my usually brave dog yipes out loud to run closer to my bike...in times like that details matter more....
    Last edited by TrailNut; 12-03-2012 at 01:36 PM.
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nothing's impossible View Post


    So, With a few thousand lumen of light you are blinding the couple on its way to "the causy spot", irritated the guy reaches for his extreme bright torch to let you now you are blinding them. Now he notices the dive knive strapped on your leg which makes you look rather shady.


    The young boy, eager to protect and impress his new girlfriend might already have grasped his scoutingknive or taser or whatever weapon he's taken to protect him from wild animals and shady guys, you see him take his knive or whatever and decide it's time to grasp yours, the girl takes her pepperspray out of her handbag as she sees you grasping for your knive,...

    As you probably didn't have real training with the weapon, you didn't realise you should' ve stopped before taking the knive out, now, one of the best case scenario is something like: you took the knive while you were trying to stop with one hand, you loose the knive and a crash into a tree or something, the girl who didn't receive training either is spraying around in pannick so the three of you are blinded, and as she runs away she stumbles and sprains her ankle avoiding her to run away to far, and the cup scout keeps rather cool and doesn't do anything stupid. with some luck he uses his flashlight to send an emergency signal into the air, picked up by someone so you are all recovered and you get out of prison in a reasonable amount of time.

    If you had received weapon training, and you ended up using the knive it would be a lot longer in prison.

    But, if you had received weapon training, you wouldn't be mountainbiking with a dive knive strapped on your leg
    That's literally the most emoticons I've seen in one posting.
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailNut View Post
    OK, i'll play along...

    ...after the 3rd bite, if you don't have a knife than what?
    if you're dead then you are at peace, but if you're still mobile then you must carry on to protect life around you...I'd rather have a knife rather than resort to my unarmed training, that, I may guess, could be more extensive then the average cop in my fair city.

    the end really does not matter, but that at the moment of crisis if you've done the right thing then that is how you demonstrate love.

    having the courage to prepare shows respect and gratitude which may then brings luck or more thoughtful risk management.

    have a good one.
    You are not playing along, you are hardly reading what I say

    The chance of being attacked by wildlife or humans during a nightride is nihil compared to other risks. There is nothing against being prepared, but you prepare for something that is verry unlikely to happen.

    Like most preppers, you are mainly scaring the **** out of yourself with worst case scenarios.

    The trees make noise at night, so what, are the trees falling by the dosens if you ride in between them? Darkness doesn't make trees fall, wind does.

    Your dog makes some noise and runs back to you. You go for the worst scenario: There is a dangerous animal in the forrest, but a porcupine, a snake, a few antbites,...
    There are a million more plausible and unthreathening explanations than: There is a mountain lion sneaking upon me.

    If you hear a noise in the forest, stop, kill you light and take out your camera. If you have a shot from a mountainlion or something similar in the wild, even a blurred picture or shabby video images will travel around the world, if you manage to get a good image you might make a nice amount of money!

    There is a reason why people who picture wildlife are camping silently for days in a row in a camouflaged hut.

  14. #39
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    All I could think of while reading the emoticon filled post was this reminds me of something I would have expected to see in the movie "City Slickers" and that it sounded like an ubanite's worst case scenario.

    Having grown up in the mountains of East TN and more specifically in an area where trouble bears from the Smoky Mountains are relocated to; I see no issue in carrying both a folding knife and a fixed blade if it makes you feel safer. I've probably encountered 50 or 60 black bears in the last 10 years and most of them are not afraid of humans. Screech whistles? Don't work. Bike over your head and screaming at the bear? Doesn't work. Throwing sticks and rocks at the bear? Sometimes works, sometimes doesn't phase them, once had one lower its shoulders like it was going to charge. Six and a half years ago, there was a little girl killed by bears in the same area where I've seen most of the bears. Bear attack

    Similar issues with feral hogs down here too and those things are just plain stupid, anger filled, slabs of bacon. A running chainsaw wont scare them out of a charge towards you, but a handful of twigs, leaves, and dirt sends them scattering. These are also some of the reasons that I do not under any avoidable circumstances ride solo at night down here.

    Normally though I just carry a Leatherman. I stopped carrying the fixed blade when I realized that the Leatherman did all the cutting I needed and I sure hell did not want to be close enough to a bear or feral hog to have to defend myself with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec7 View Post
    I've probably encountered 50 or 60 black bears in the last 10 years and most of them are not afraid of humans. Screech whistles? Don't work. Bike over your head and screaming at the bear? Doesn't work. Throwing sticks and rocks at the bear? Sometimes works, sometimes doesn't phase them, once had one lower its shoulders like it was going to charge. Six and a half years ago, there was a little girl killed by bears in the same area where I've seen most of the bears. Bear attack
    That's a horrible bear story. No doubt that bear had some abnormality to make it behave that way. Everyone's worse nightmare. Scary as hell when animals don't behave as usual.

    Sounds like the other bears in your area are quite used to humans. Need I say, that is not a good thing if you plan to be out in the woods. When bears have no fear of humans anything can happen.

    If I was riding in your neck of the woods I don't think I'd feel safe unless I was packing a Magnum ( and was trained to use it ). Since that is likely illegal , like you I wouldn't want to ride alone. ( besides I don't own a gun and have no plans on buying one )

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    Spec, it was indeed the scenario of some old b-movie, but I don't remember the title

    If i would live in an area with relocated bears and misbehaving half domesticated wild hogs, i might reconsider solo nightrides as well, on the other hand, spotting a wild bear in the wild at night is also tempting, not as tempting as spotting a mountain lion though!


    The bear attack, as strangely as it may sound, the bad news even reached Belgium, so it must be a rather rare event, a six years old might look like an easy prey, an adult man??

    And if you succeed in killing a bear or a mountain lion or a wild hog or even a bewildered dog with a knife, the lokal tribe will honour you around the campfire for the centuries to come

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nothing's impossible View Post
    You are not playing along, you are hardly reading what I say

    The chance of being attacked by wildlife or humans during a nightride is nihil compared to other risks. There is nothing against being prepared, but you prepare for something that is verry unlikely to happen.

    Like most preppers, you are mainly scaring the **** out of yourself with worst case scenarios.

    The trees make noise at night, so what, are the trees falling by the dosens if you ride in between them? Darkness doesn't make trees fall, wind does.

    Your dog makes some noise and runs back to you. You go for the worst scenario: There is a dangerous animal in the forrest, but a porcupine, a snake, a few antbites,...
    There are a million more plausible and unthreathening explanations than: There is a mountain lion sneaking upon me.

    If you hear a noise in the forest, stop, kill you light and take out your camera. If you have a shot from a mountain lion or something similar in the wild, even a blurred picture or shabby video images will travel around the world, if you manage to get a good image you might make a nice amount of money!

    There is a reason why people who picture wildlife are camping silently for days in a row in a camouflaged hut.
    you're assuming that "...scaring the **** out of yourself..." which is nonsense.
    acknowledging possibility, however remote, is not the same as being scared.
    carrying a handy small knife is kind of like "paying" insurance and giving attention to risks.
    let's move away on this subject that i will gladly not agree with you.

    my iPhone's neat camera, but a waterproof pocket-sized camera with optical zoom lens & flash is a not a bad ideal, but now we're getting into unnecessary luxuries...

    as a Boy Scouts leader, in my early teens, I was taught and taught others to never ever go into the woods without a knife, compass, and a fire-starter flint: never (my handle bar mounts a compass bell, BTW).

    it's raining here. flowing in the muddy trails in a rainy night's a kind of dirty and dangerous fun I relish.

    enjoy.


    .
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    Bears...no problem, forget the bear spray, pot and pans, bright lights and rock. Just ride out with your partner but be sure you bring your fastest bike! Keep in mind you're not trying to out run the bear....just your partner

    On a more serious note: I do bring my Taser C3 which shootout about 15ft worth of probe. I also carry my Fox pepper spray which I have practice using in the backyard with all my older expired spray. My neighbor just hates me when I do that because the smell is overwhelming. However my best policy is avoid confrontation if at all possible and de-escalate the situation, yes even with animals but luckily we don't have much here but maybe mountain lion depending on where we go. So far that worked for me and opefully stay that way.

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    bear had some abnormality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    That's a horrible bear story. No doubt that bear had some abnormality to make it behave that way. Everyone's worse nightmare. Scary as hell when animals don't behave as usual.

    Sounds like the other bears in your area are quite used to humans. Need I say, that is not a good thing if you plan to be out in the woods. When bears have no fear of humans anything can happen.

    If I was riding in your neck of the woods I don't think I'd feel safe unless I was packing a Magnum ( and was trained to use it ). Since that is likely illegal , like you I wouldn't want to ride alone. ( besides I don't own a gun and have no plans on buying one )
    the best approaching to thinking about bears is to remove fear or assumptions about them: factually, black bears have been known to track down and kill humans for "supper."

    I had given a warning shot, a 44 Remington Magnum from a (legally compliant) revolver, up in the air once to scare off a black bear too close to our tent at night, by a lake,...that black bear didn't even notice the loud report, though my ears were ringing and i had to hope that the heavy (320 grain) bullet did not land on spot that'll harm life. Earlier, we had banged on tin-pots, to no effect. We spilled white gas to re-light our campfire with pile of sticks we had saved from the morning: that gave us some space. Glad we had our dog to provide sentry or else I'd had been up awake all night as the bear kept circling our tent (that had no food or soap anything we can imagine that might give off an "attractive" order).

    Personally, i'd rather deal with big cats or bears any time than be near humans withe AR style rifles with attitudes.

    now skunks at night along the trail, they do scare me quite a bit! ohhhh my, do my heart race! such sighting makes helmet light priceless tools of prevention..
    The state that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards & its fighting by fools.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nothing's impossible View Post
    The bear attack, as strangely as it may sound, the bad news even reached Belgium, so it must be a rather rare event, a six years old might look like an easy prey, an adult man??
    It was indeed a rare event. I think there have been two other deaths by bear attack since then in the Cherokee National Forest further north from me. Those were adults who lost their lives thus making it less of a media sensation. Still something to keep in mind in this neck of the woods though. CCP's are now legal in the national forest so you can carry if so endorsed and I am, but I never do on the bike simply due to I don't feel the need for it or want the extra weight. Backpacking, I always carry though since a hiker is slower moving & more easily stalked.

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    Trailnut, this is Western Europe, there is no weaponlobby around trying to create reasons to justify carrying arms.
    As a result we think in a different way!

    A question about which fixed blade to carry would turn up on a diving forum (to cut ropes in case you are entagled in one and panic, not to defend oneself from shark attacks), but nobody here will take your question, posted in a light topic on an internet forum, serious.

    Spec, 3 killings in 6 years, that bear relocation progra must become a political issue?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec7 View Post
    It was indeed a rare event. I think there have been two other deaths by bear attack since then in the Cherokee National Forest further north from me. Those were adults who lost their lives thus making it less of a media sensation. Still something to keep in mind in this neck of the woods though. CCP's are now legal in the national forest so you can carry if so endorsed and I am, but I never do on the bike simply due to I don't feel the need for it or want the extra weight. Backpacking, I always carry though since a hiker is slower moving & more easily stalked.
    Some years ago I did a quick search on "death by bears". Now it seems the death toll has increased, much more than I previously thought. While it is still rare, it happens. Food for thought if you ride in remote areas with a known bear population. Wiki link -fatal bear attacks

    Just out of curiosity I wonder "how many people have had a dangerous encounter with a bear ( been threatened ) and then escaped. I'd also like to know how many people have had to use their "Bear spray" and had it work. I know there are books on the subject of how to defend/prevent bear attacks. Might just pickup an e-book on it if it isn't to much money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nothing's impossible View Post
    Trailnut, this is Western Europe, there is no weaponlobby around trying to create reasons to justify carrying arms.
    As a result we think in a different way!

    A question about which fixed blade to carry would turn up on a diving forum (to cut ropes in case you are entagled in one and panic, not to defend oneself from shark attacks), but nobody here will take your question, posted in a light topic on an internet forum, serious.
    @Nothing's impossible;

    Your comments on this thread are contrary the typically informative and civil nature of the lights and night riding forum. Others on this forum did take the OP seriously and replied with suggestions pertinant to the topic. The topic being advice on what to carry, not should I carry. While my personal thoughts on the whether to carry a weapon while riding lie close to yours, it is not my place to attempt to impose my belief on another. The OP knows he wants to carry. It's rude and not your place to tell him his concern is groundless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    @Nothing's impossible;

    Your comments on this thread are contrary the typically informative and civil nature of the lights and night riding forum. Others on this forum did take the OP seriously and replied with suggestions pertinant to the topic. The topic being advice on what to carry, not should I carry. While my personal thoughts on the whether to carry a weapon while riding lie close to yours, it is not my place to attempt to impose my belief on another. The OP knows he wants to carry. It's rude and not your place to tell him his concern is groundless.

    I generally try to avoid calling anyone out but, he did specifically ask and request:
    "Got any suggestions?
    please keep your comments towards something useful, non-judgemental."

    I find it fairly disrespectful to totally ignore everything he stated in his opening remarks; IMHO.

  25. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,616
    Cat-- forget the bear spray. If you actually need to use it, the bear is too close already. Pick up a can of hornet spray instead. Just as much of a deterrent, but it sprays at a cool 20+ feet.

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