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  1. #51
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    I have to post a correction. Magicshine-type batteries work just fine with the head. It's the S6 battery that won't fit the Magicshine charger. I don't care about that. I almost modified the light for no reason. Now I need to pick which battery to buy.

    There's the Xeccon battery I mention earlier. It's from a reputable companies with quality cells. It's 6600 mah.

    Then there's the 4x26650 battery pack that fightnut found. 10000 mah and $15 cheaper. But it's from a company that doesn't seem to have a reputation, and the cells could be the same recycled rubbish found in Ultrafire 26650's so it'd have diminished capacity and might have balancing issues.

    Also, I tried taking apart the head, but didn't get far. I couldn't find a way to pull the reflector out. I removed the rear of the light, but what looks like a pill seems to be bonded in. That gives this light a limited life because I can't upgrade the LED's or driver. If the cord at the mount goes bad, the light becomes junk unless there's a way to take the light apart to replace the entire cord.




    UPDATE: I played it safe and went with the Xeccon battery. I'll build my own 26650 battery pack at some point.
    Last edited by leaftye; 11-21-2012 at 06:33 AM.

  2. #52
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    I hooked up the light on a power supply and did some measurements, if you are interested visit this link

  3. #53
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    Thanks! I'm going to copy some of it here. I hope you don't mind.

    1 LED: 0.58A
    2 LED: 1.83A
    3 LED: 2.01A
    This confirms what we've noticed.

    Based on the CREE calculator...

    There's a huge difference between 1 & 2 LED's. Possibly up to 3 times more lumens.

    Based on that current draw, the output with 3 LED's might be marginally more than with 2 LED's.

    It also gives another indication that the battery pack has about half the capacity it's rated for.

  4. #54
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    Thanks MK96 (and leaftye for explaining it).

  5. #55
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    Of course I don't mind. I believe the light can be driven harder with some modification and sensibile UI without disco mode
    Quote Originally Posted by leaftye View Post
    Thanks! I'm going to copy some of it here. I hope you don't mind.



    This confirms what we've noticed.

    Based on the CREE calculator...

    There's a huge difference between 1 & 2 LED's. Possibly up to 3 times more lumens.

    Based on that current draw, the output with 3 LED's might be marginally more than with 2 LED's.

    It also gives another indication that the battery pack has about half the capacity it's rated for.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK96 View Post
    Of course I don't mind. I believe the light can be driven harder with some modification and sensibile UI without disco mode
    If it can be taken apart. I didn't have any luck. Have you given that a shot?

  7. #57
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    No not yet. But definitely I want. I saw it somewhere disassembled but unfortunately I cannot remember where. The other 3XML clone drains more current than this S6, but seems that it becomes much hotter than S6. My S6 stays the whole time pretty warm outdoors at 6 degrees C. Maybe because its bigger and contains more material Anyway I am waiting for the 18650 holders and PCB protection to build my own pack, since original pack is not worth to talk about - in my case. I have some older notebook batteries and voltage monitor already. Perhaps I will buy some 18650 3000mAh trustfires from DX or MF if the notebook cells would be dead enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by leaftye View Post
    If it can be taken apart. I didn't have any luck. Have you given that a shot?

  8. #58
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    Why not just go for RC LiPos? If you stick PCB on them they will be as safe as 18650, but most certainly cheaper than high quality/capacity 18650. Plus you'll get benefit of being able to charge them very quickly (@1-1.5C). If you need any advice about LiPo, I am willing to help.

  9. #59
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    I just want a kind of battery pack that is universal (2S2P-2S7P), which 18650 cells in parallel give. 12 cells for 10$/pair is about 60$ with 7.4V and maximal capacity (2S6P) 15600 mAh. PCB is about 5$, 20x 18650 holders for 6$. Is there any alternative for this in RC LiPos?

    Quote Originally Posted by bobale View Post
    Why not just go for RC LiPos? If you stick PCB on them they will be as safe as 18650, but most certainly cheaper than high quality/capacity 18650. Plus you'll get benefit of being able to charge them very quickly (@1-1.5C). If you need any advice about LiPo, I am willing to help.

  10. #60
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    How about three of those? ZIPPY Flightmax 5000mAh 2S1P 20C It will be much simpler, more compact, you'll only need to solder wires, and not worry about those battery holders (which I dislike). And if you have powerful enough charger, you'll be able to charge this pack in an hour, at 15A.

  11. #61
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    Hmm that is really nice alternative. Does this come with protection or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by bobale View Post
    How about three of those? ZIPPY Flightmax 5000mAh 2S1P 20C It will be much simpler, more compact, you'll only need to solder wires, and not worry about those battery holders (which I dislike). And if you have powerful enough charger, you'll be able to charge this pack in an hour, at 15A.

  12. #62
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    Of course not. But you'll add that $5 PCB, and off you go.

  13. #63
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    I gave it a shot and ordered this 5000 mah lipo. Thanks for advice, will let you know how it works

    Quote Originally Posted by bobale View Post
    Of course not. But you'll add that $5 PCB, and off you go.

  14. #64
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    That's great. Just be careful with LiPo. Never discharge it below 3.0V per cell. And as pack has balance connector you'll be able to check whether cells are well matched by voltage.

  15. #65
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    I read about LiPo over internet and also saw some videos of LiPo venting & catching fire So I definitely use them with caution
    Quote Originally Posted by bobale View Post
    That's great. Just be careful with LiPo. Never discharge it below 3.0V per cell. And as pack has balance connector you'll be able to check whether cells are well matched by voltage.

  16. #66
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    I've been following this thread with interest after finding it through a google search. I've recently bought a Skyray S6 via eBay.

    Intial thoughts concur with what's been said, in that the build quality and heat dissipation seems to be good, the stock batteries are useless (mine only last 13-15mins from a full charge using 2 LEDs), and that having checked too, there's negligable difference between 2 LEDs and 3 on current used.

    Following advice from a friend I've also ordered some 5000Mah Lipo's (although Infinergy not Zippy on his recommendation). On his assessments this should give me about 5hrs life on 3 LEDs. He recommends using 3 LEDS over just 2 even though the illumination gain is negilable, primarily because it'll spread the load across all 3 LEDs as opposed to 2, thus hopefully increasing the life of the LEDs.

    Can't wait to give the light a try on my local forest trail as the illumination is certainly BRIGHT!!!!!!

    I'll report back on my findings once I've received the batteries and built the pack up.

    Guy

  17. #67
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    Actually I use the oiginal protection from the ebay battery pack. I soldered the JST-XH male connector to the PCB. I use the balance connector to power the light, since the draw is about 2A. I am also going to add a low batt indicator. The temporary solution before I get the 5.5 mm bullet connector. And I also bought a 8000 mAh instead of 5000mAh, we will see how it performs The setup image:

    Quote Originally Posted by bobale View Post
    Of course not. But you'll add that $5 PCB, and off you go.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK96 View Post
    Actually I use the oiginal protection from the ebay battery pack. I soldered the JST-XH male connector to the PCB. I use the balance connector to power the light, since the draw is about 2A. I am also going to add a low batt indicator. The temporary solution before I get the 5.5 mm bullet connector. And I also bought a 8000 mAh instead of 5000mAh, we will see how it performs
    Nice, thanks for the pics. I'm about to undertake this too. Where did you get to 8000mah pack (hobbyking? Hobbypartz?) - it doesn't look too big or anything, good size.

    Are you putting 5mm bullet connector on the PCB because of the 5mm bullets on the pack? I've been debating what connectors to use, I was thinking putting Dean's on batt and pcb... but that may not be very waterproof.
    Last edited by bad andy; 12-24-2012 at 08:04 AM.

  19. #69
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    Yes, the battery is from hobbyking 17 x 7 x 1.7 centimeters and quite cheap. Yes, I will put 5mm bullet on the PCB with a fuse probably. Waterproof is for me a question of the case/backpack/... I want to modify trustfire X100 to a bike light which needs a 4S (probabaly also 8000mAh) battery. So I am going to have the Skyray and X100 batteries in one case each working independent with own PCB and low batt indicator.

    Quote Originally Posted by bad andy View Post
    Nice, thanks for the pics. I'm about to undertake this too. Where did you get to 8000mah pack (hobbyking? Hobbypartz?) - it doesn't look too big or anything, good size.

    Are you putting 5mm bullet connector on the PCB because of the 5mm bullets on the pack? I've been debating what connectors to use, I was thinking putting Dean's on batt and pcb... but that may not be very waterproof.

  20. #70
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    BTW I also measured the 2 flea-bay 2s2p packs. 1st 4 cells are 780, 949, 921, 975mAh, 2nd pack 4 cells are 1440, 1436, 1521 and 1359 mAh. From the 1st I got 1700mAh at 7.4V, from the 2nd 2800mAh at 7.4V. From the zippy flightmax 8000mAh battery (it came charged to 3.84V per cell ) I ran the light for 1 hour on high and MM read 3.82V per cell. Definitely a huge difference. The 1st flea-bay pack ran ~57 mins.
    Last edited by MK96; 12-27-2012 at 03:53 AM.

  21. #71
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    Ok.

    Received my LIPOs through on NYE.

    My chum made my pack up for me and I set it going on a duration test last night.

    4x5000mah's ran the S6 on all 3 LEDs for exactly 3hrs (the last 10 mins of that, the light had dropped down onto one LED so it looks like I'll get a bit of warning before all light vanishes).

    It took a little over an hour to recharge the pack on my IMAX B6AC charger at 5A current

    I'd post some info pics but the pesky post limit won't let me

  22. #72
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    If you want them to last longer, charge LiPos to 4.1V per cell (select LiIon instead of LiPo on charger), and discharge not too deep. Also, if you're not going to use them for a longer period of time, store at 50% charger (3.8V per cell).

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK96 View Post
    Yes, the battery is from hobbyking 17 x 7 x 1.7 centimeters and quite cheap. Yes, I will put 5mm bullet on the PCB with a fuse probably. Waterproof is for me a question of the case/backpack/... I want to modify trustfire X100 to a bike light which needs a 4S (probabaly also 8000mAh) battery. So I am going to have the Skyray and X100 batteries in one case each working independent with own PCB and low batt indicator.
    I have my 8000 pack and am also going to use the PCB from the original eBay pack. It's the same PCB as you have pictured. I plan to use deans connector's (like my RC stuff) from the PCB to the pack. This way the pack is mostly untouched and i can use for rc stuff if needed, as the PCB would be easily removable.

    My question is about the wiring on the PCB. The +/- leads are easy, but what was the original pack's white wire for? It is unconnected here, but It connected to the PCB at the top, under where marked "tr-0113b"

    SKY RAY S6 3xCREE XM-L T6 LED 2500Lumens 4-mode Bike light/ -imageuploadedbytapatalk1358040925.271092.jpg

  24. #74
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    The white wire is comon wire between cells. As you can see on the balance connector - it has 3 wires: minus, common, plus

    Quote Originally Posted by bad andy View Post
    I have my 8000 pack and am also going to use the PCB from the original eBay pack. It's the same PCB as you have pictured. I plan to use deans connector's (like my RC stuff) from the PCB to the pack. This way the pack is mostly untouched and i can use for rc stuff if needed, as the PCB would be easily removable.

    My question is about the wiring on the PCB. The +/- leads are easy, but what was the original pack's white wire for? It is unconnected here, but It connected to the PCB at the top, under where marked "tr-0113b"

    Click image for larger version. 

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  25. #75
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    actually this white wire is identical to my post 67, as you can see on the balance connector on the battery.

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK96 View Post
    Actually I use the oiginal protection from the ebay battery pack. I soldered the JST-XH male connector to the PCB. I use the balance connector to power the light, since the draw is about 2A. I am also going to add a low batt indicator. The temporary solution before I get the 5.5 mm bullet connector. And I also bought a 8000 mAh instead of 5000mAh, we will see how it performs The setup image:
    I have a noob question. I thought with RC batteries that you use the thick wires when you connect to the motor (or light in this case) and the thin wires were just for charging. It looks like you are using the thin wires for everything. I'm no expert though.

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK96 View Post
    The white wire is comon wire between cells. As you can see on the balance connector - it has 3 wires: minus, common, plus
    I referenced your post 67 where you are using the balance connector to power the light, with all 3 wires connected. Is connecting the white wire required for the PCB to function correctly?

    I was simply going to do battery with dean's (on main leads) >> PCB with deans on +/- on the PCB. Would this work ok? Nothing would be connected to the com post, where the white wire is.

  28. #78
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    Yes the white wire is required since it is used for measuring the difference between cell 1 and 2. You can power the light with main leads but still you have to connect the white wire to the PCM module (in place of my blue wire)

    Quote Originally Posted by bad andy View Post
    I referenced your post 67 where you are using the balance connector to power the light, with all 3 wires connected. Is connecting the white wire required for the PCB to function correctly?

    I was simply going to do battery with dean's (on main leads) >> PCB with deans on +/- on the PCB. Would this work ok? Nothing would be connected to the com post, where the white wire is.

  29. #79
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    Thick wires are used for high current draw >5A. This light can be powered from the balance leads. Thick wires are also used for charging with max. 40A current together with balance leads which are required for proper charging - they are used to measure each cell alone. They are also used to drain the current from the cell if there are cell differences during charging. So in this case I can used the light as on the above post. I charge the battery using main thick leads and also the thin balance leads for monitoring each cell.

    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    I have a noob question. I thought with RC batteries that you use the thick wires when you connect to the motor (or light in this case) and the thin wires were just for charging. It looks like you are using the thin wires for everything. I'm no expert though.

  30. #80
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    tagged for future ref
    roccowt.
    rocnbikemeld

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK96 View Post
    Yes the white wire is required since it is used for measuring the difference between cell 1 and 2. You can power the light with main leads but still you have to connect the white wire to the PCM module (in place of my blue wire)
    Thanks MK, I will probably get some JST connectors to run to the PCB for the light connection, and leave the main leads for charging. Just cleaner that way.

    Ok, next question - has anyone figured out how to disassemble the S6? Mine is only powering a single LED right now and I wanted to take a look inside.

  32. #82
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    You have to unscrew the silver ring at the glass lens - it sits there pretty stiff. The next thing I did not take is probably to unscrew the glossy aluminium reflector since I do not see any other possibilities from the back side of the light head.

    Quote Originally Posted by bad andy View Post
    Thanks MK, I will probably get some JST connectors to run to the PCB for the light connection, and leave the main leads for charging. Just cleaner that way.

    Ok, next question - has anyone figured out how to disassemble the S6? Mine is only powering a single LED right now and I wanted to take a look inside.

  33. #83
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    The back cover unscrews. You can see the switch board, but I don't see a nice way of taking that out.

    The reflector is in there pretty tight. I think it's either bonded, or threaded and bonded.

    If your light is already broken and you are okay with the risk of breaking it completely, try this. With the front bezel removed, push the reflector down hard onto a grippy pad and twist counter-clockwise. The pad should grip the reflector without marring it.

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK96 View Post
    Thick wires are used for high current draw >5A. This light can be powered from the balance leads. Thick wires are also used for charging with max. 40A current together with balance leads which are required for proper charging - they are used to measure each cell alone. They are also used to drain the current from the cell if there are cell differences during charging. So in this case I can used the light as on the above post. I charge the battery using main thick leads and also the thin balance leads for monitoring each cell.
    Thanks for the explanation. So you connect both leads to the charger at the same time? I don't know anything about these newer RC batteries, but they look like the cheapest option for powering these lights.

  35. #85
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    The charging process with hobby charger looks like this:
    thick wires are used for charging, thin for - let's say cell inspection. Also bobale mentioned some info in this thread how to handle Lipo properly. I am very pleased with the performance of Lipo with my S6



    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    Thanks for the explanation. So you connect both leads to the charger at the same time? I don't know anything about these newer RC batteries, but they look like the cheapest option for powering these lights.

  36. #86
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    Then it could be threaded and bonded. Do you have some pics of the removed back? I am willing to change the uC and remove the disco mode and also give it some more sensible on/off/mode change.

    Quote Originally Posted by leaftye View Post
    The back cover unscrews. You can see the switch board, but I don't see a nice way of taking that out.

    The reflector is in there pretty tight. I think it's either bonded, or threaded and bonded.

    If your light is already broken and you are okay with the risk of breaking it completely, try this. With the front bezel removed, push the reflector down hard onto a grippy pad and twist counter-clockwise. The pad should grip the reflector without marring it.

  37. #87
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    Well, I tried to look closer at how the back could unscrew? Couldn't see a thing.

    Weird thing is the light started working again. Go figure.

  38. #88
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    After some time passed I figured out that the brown/black PCB cuts off at 2.34V under load - so it is quite dangerous for li-ion and twice as for lipo :-( Have to look around for some PCB that cuts off at 3V.

    I created myself a bit of work more and took apart the light. I cut off some wires, so I have to solder them back (or replace with thicker ones) in near future But this light case can easily take up to full potential of 3 XM-L2 U2 - so >3000 lm is closer to the chinglish specs . Just need to heatsink the driver from KD without strobe, some clicky flashlight switch and some new XM-L2 U2 leds with nice tint

    SKY RAY S6 3xCREE XM-L T6 LED 2500Lumens 4-mode Bike light/ -img_20131110_130310.jpg

    SKY RAY S6 3xCREE XM-L T6 LED 2500Lumens 4-mode Bike light/ -img_20131110_130344.jpg
    Last edited by MK96; 11-10-2013 at 04:17 AM. Reason: added the light inner stuff

  39. #89
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    As I suggested in my previous post I have decided to rework the whole light. I ordered a 30W KD driver without disco mode and now searching for some XM-L2 U2 leds on copper plate for a decent price - I have seen those 1A tint, but I like to have 4C or similar white, not that blueish white Or I'll buy some XM-L2 T6 4C from fasttech, but I would prefer XM-L2 U2. Any suggestions for leds?

  40. #90
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    MK96, can you clarify please: on your second picture, it looks to me that black LED mounting surface inside is an integral part of light's outer case. Am I correct? What is wall thickness (approximately)? Also, is it completely flat, or have some recessions for LED bases?

    P.S. Good luck rebuilding the light!

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK96 View Post
    As I suggested in my previous post I have decided to rework the whole light. I ordered a 30W KD driver without disco mode and now searching for some XM-L2 U2 leds on copper plate for a decent price - I have seen those 1A tint, but I like to have 4C or similar white, not that blueish white Or I'll buy some XM-L2 T6 4C from fasttech, but I would prefer XM-L2 U2. Any suggestions for leds?
    Oh heck, just go with the T6 4C....you can always upgrade later. With the right driver this thing is going to rock. ( may I suggest using two XM-L2 T6 neutral bins ( 5000K range ) and one XM-L2 T6 4C... could help lessen the glare )

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK96 View Post
    As I suggested in my previous post I have decided to rework the whole light. I ordered a 30W KD driver without disco mode and now searching for some XM-L2 U2 leds on copper plate for a decent price - I have seen those 1A tint, but I like to have 4C or similar white, not that blueish white Or I'll buy some XM-L2 T6 4C from fasttech, but I would prefer XM-L2 U2. Any suggestions for leds?

    Only T6, but really great direct to copper mcpcb.
    Noctigon XM20 MCPCB & CREE XM-L2 T6 4C LED [CREE XM-L2 T6 4C LED] - $6.89 : Led Flashlight-International Outdoor Store

    I think he has a new tint that's not listed.

    Thanks for showing it disassembled.

  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by leaftye View Post
    Only T6, but really great direct to copper mcpcb.
    Everything fine, except for "sold out" note...

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    Missed that. Still, ask if there's a new tint not listed.

  45. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Archie- View Post
    MK96, can you clarify please: on your second picture, it looks to me that black LED mounting surface inside is an integral part of light's outer case. Am I correct? What is wall thickness (approximately)? Also, is it completely flat, or have some recessions for LED bases?

    P.S. Good luck rebuilding the light!
    Yes the surface is integral part - that is what I really like and why I decided to pump 3A to the leds t It is thick about 4-5 mm comparing the led plate which is about 2 mm thick. Overall the light head & reflector is quite heavy (as I remember about 300g). The led mounting surface is let's say "flat" but has some uniform circle stripes from manufacturing, but not recessions for 16 or 20 mm baseplate for leds. I read somewhere on CPF that the KD driver heats a lot but not that much using 2S cells and 3 leds in series, so it is quite efficient in this combination. I will attach the driver to the body & give it some thermal compound to let the heat pass away to the thick case. Anyway the Skyray 6T6 on lightmalls and Singfire on fasttech might have the same case.

    Thanks Archie, I will post the result also to beamshots thread but need to fix the light to make shots with the old driver and then with the new one!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    may I suggest using two XM-L2 T6 neutral bins ( 5000K range ) and one XM-L2 T6 4C... could help lessen the glare
    Cat, that sound interesting, never heard about such combination.

    Quote Originally Posted by leaftye View Post
    Missed that. Still, ask if there's a new tint not listed.
    Yes, I will try to write them. Thanks Leafteye!

  46. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK96 View Post
    Yes the surface is integral part - that is what I really like and why I decided to pump 3A to the leds t It is thick about 4-5 mm comparing the led plate which is about 2 mm thick. Overall the light head & reflector is quite heavy (as I remember about 300g). The led mounting surface is let's say "flat" but has some uniform circle stripes from manufacturing, but not recessions for 16 or 20 mm baseplate for leds.
    Perfect! That way, thermal dissipation is superb. I've seen flashlights of similar design, but never encountered a bike light implementing this till now. If they'll eventually add the polished recessions for the LED bases, and threaded holes for mounting them with thermal paste instead of adhesive compound, the case will probably become an ideal one.

    Anyway the Skyray 6T6 on lightmalls and Singfire on fasttech might have the same case.
    Seems so. On the other hand, 7-LED model have totally different case design (with common pill+reflector assembly inserted into the enclosure), but is also quite well-made one, in terms of cooling.

  47. #97
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    These are 6-led models with probably the same design (maybe I buy Skyray 6T6 and check it). I noticed, that the KD driver is a torch driver, so I also need a clicky torch switch instead.

  48. #98
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    Yes, and this is the reason I've decided not to buy it. Giving the current involved, most switches will fail soon (been there, done that at the age of powerful incandescent torches with 3 - 4A consumption)...

  49. #99
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    Found one here, that can handle up to 10A. But there are lot of microswitches over there.

    Edited: Microswitch can't hold its position, so it is useless in this manner. I went for KAN-028 & OMTEN PBS101C.
    Last edited by MK96; 11-12-2013 at 03:30 PM.

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    I thought it looked like a direct thermal path. Thanks for confirming it. I almost sold this light. I would have regretted that. With a direct thermal path, it's good reason to upgrade the mcpcb's to Noctigons or Sinkpads for an even more direct thermal path and less thermal sage, which will probably result in more lumens with the same amount of current.

    Do you think a sense resister mod will increase current? That's something at least. Hopefully later we'll figure out how to swap the driver to get rid of the blinkie modes and have all LED's on in all modes.

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