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  1. #1
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    Review: C&B Seen 7up

    C AND B SEEN.


    This is a personal review on one of this company’s new 7up lights having previously purchased their rear lights which at 500Lm are seriously bright and quite intelligent.

    So this is only my 2nd review of a light, my background is I am an ex lover of Troutie lights so I tend to measure everything by his standards. I have not stripped this light down and unlike my last light, I have not tried to reverse engineer it or upgrade it like I did with my last really mad 5K+ lumen light whereby I was trying to put a Lupine Betty to shame and succeed with a degree of ease.

    So billed as their - SINGLE 7-LED 3000LM LAMP HEAD UNIT BLACK WITH REMOTE. It uses 7 x CREE XPG G3 Natural White LED's and a Finnish manufactured glass lens providing each LED with it's own focus-tightening area to protect against peripheral light-spill. Personally I wished they had at least have used L2 T6 but having said that, they have done a good job with their choice and specced as a single light with nothing else at only £34.. extras are available.

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    The first thing I like about this deal, is you only buy what you want, so you can buy the light unit only or one with their remote control, or a battery is an option so too is the extended cable and a charger.. which I think is great if like me you already run a very good tried and tested 100w/H LiPo battery setup and do not need all that other stuff. It comes with all the usual attachment modes (which I always ditch and use my own hook-up kit).. which is fixed and very steady.

    .. Anyway once wired up ( I run mine from a 14.8v LiPo Battery with a regulated voltage dropper to 8.5v). NOTE - I run two lights, this one plus a Trail tech 12v Spotlight… so it is all down to what this babe is like out on the trails.

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    Out of the box, it is pre-set to LOW-MED-HIGH.. There are two buttons on the remote, these can be used to switch on, pair to the light, control the brightness level up/down and the pulse mode.. NOTE, not a strobe but a more realistic pulse.. so in this mode it is on at around level 2 and then pulses at level 3 or 4.

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    It comes with good instructions on how to pair, program and what the warning lights mean as a power gauge.. out on the street, LOW is great for street night riding without bothering other drivers but off road is too dim to use.. on the road at night, other drivers will see you on the LOW beam as it is bright. In daylight, the pulse is perfect – not too over the top and no way as aggressive as my last light setup but you WILL get seen and there is no doubt about that as it will pick up the reflective roads signs a good 50 plus meters away. it runs quiet cool, at full power I had it indoors running for 30mins before I decided to cool it down with a fan.

    Off road, MED setting is great, good spread, reasonably wide and the light tint is warmish enough to pick out stuff nice and easy. The high setting (by my standard) is not insane but it is pretty mental. For most people HIGH will satisfy most reasonable fast twisty fire-roads and wooded trails.. I would say that at around 25mph + you will struggle to outrun the lights plus in program mode there are two higher settings above the factory set HIGH.

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    Out in the back of beyond and in program mode (you can over-ride and set your own fixed settings) then you can go through all 10 levels but to be honest it comes set at Low = L1, Med = L4 and High = L8.. I found that moving the Med setting up to say L5 or L6 was not really worth it and that L10 was not that much (on the road) noticeably brighter than L8… indoors L10 looks seriously bright but outdoors it was not worth the extra current draw.

    I cannot comment about their battery or charger as I did not purchase one but on my setup, I am able to run my spot light which has a 30w draw and this light on L10 with a 20w draw (with a fan over the lights indoors) for an easy 60mins and the voltage drop was only 0.8v from 16.88v to 16.00v and was able to run it for a further 60mins with a voltage drop of 2v to 14.8v which for me is more than enough as I cannot think of a time when I would need the full power on for two hours.. Based on this, a typical 20w draw on this light would probably suck about 2.38ish amps out of a battery and the need to run it at full power would really only be for when you are out in the woods. I took my bike down by the river trail last night where the path is full of all sorts and I was able to see branches looking to swipe my head off, logs that had been placed close by for later river collection and enough mud and hidden pot holes with no real issues on the Med setting.

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    All in all, this is a seriously good value for money lamp.. A Lupine Wilma which I feel this light is somewhere between the Wilma and the Betty is on par but the costs of the Lupine lights are crazy and yet the build quality of this light is to me, on the same level. The remote is not quite Lupine but it is still very good and very functional and will work once paired at least 5m away (if you want to show off).. Costs.. Under £80 for a full kit with 1st class recorded post… I would suggest getting the extension lead as the light comes with about 150mm of standard lead and the plugs are tough, click shut and will seal out everything that should not be in there.

    Cycling LED Lights

    If you are in the market for a decent light, then this is certainly worth a look at plus it is in the UK comes with an UK warranty and the sort of customer service back up that gets a 10/10 from me.

    I will add some beam shots when I get a chance.

  2. #2
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    That is a really nice looking light and it even has a wireless remote which is impressive for that price point!

    I'm also a old time Troutie fan and have a few lights built up using his CNC'd hosts. One problem I see with this light, and its also a common problem I see with all the inexpensive (read Chinese) lights, is that it is powered at 8.4V. This means for a 3000 lumen light a very current has to be carried by the battery cables and this is where things start to fall down. I run all my lights at 14.8V to minimize the inevitable voltage sag caused by high currents run over thin wires. I wish the cheapy light manufactures would make the jump to the higher voltage batteries, but it seems like that's just not going to happen with the race to the bottom of bike light pricing.

  3. #3
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    Hiya.. It does say in the docs that it will handle up to 16v... I bought two lights, one to mess around with and one to run.. When I gave the first one 16v, it just stopped working.. I am guessing that the main board was not truly happy as the light is not responding to any thing.

    Overall the wiring seems able to handle 20w.. not sure about the 3000Lm claim as I can't measure it but is brighter than most of the other so-called claimed hi lumen lights.

    I have wired it from my battery to the light using my own 3amp cable and to that end it ran for 2 hours yesterday and there was no issues at full power (approx 2.4amp).. cable stayed cold and I let run like this before I hard wired it all in for keeps.

    I also wish most of these lights would run at a higher voltage.. but I am gonna try and pick the first light down to see if any of Task LED Boards will fit in there as on my last light, one of theirs HBFlex was just mental when driven at 3amps.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by EFMax View Post
    Hiya.. It does say in the docs that it will handle up to 16v... I bought two lights, one to mess around with and one to run.. When I gave the first one 16v, it just stopped working.. I am guessing that the main board was not truly happy as the light is not responding to any thing.
    I'm seeing in the specs on their website operating voltage of: 6V - 8.4V. Could be why it let the magic smoke out when you gave it 16V! ;-)

  5. #5
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    Interesting offering. Price is right. I do tend to be overly cautious when it comes to this kind of lamp though. I'm not sure I would like the kind of beam pattern it might produce. I look forward to the beam shot photos. I'd like to know how far it throws. Right now I'm thinking it might be akin to something like the BT40S only with > 2X the output. I love that it' s programmable and has wireless remote. Bring on some beam shots!

    Shipping from UK tends to be more expensive but I'm still considering getting one of these to play with.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwarwick View Post
    I'm seeing in the specs on their website operating voltage of: 6V - 8.4V. Could be why it let the magic smoke out when you gave it 16V! ;-)
    Funny how the website says 8.4v but the paperwork clearly says up to 16v... never mind we learn by our mistakes..


    Cat-man-do Will get out over the weekend and find a quiet and dark spot to get some shots..

  7. #7
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    Another thing from the OP's linked website that looks interesting. 500 lumen self-contained tail-light.

    Rear Bicycle Light

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  8. #8
    arc
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    There are two things I noticed in the second picture of the first post. The Led's look really warm and if the bars spin in a crash it could be very expensive.

    I found a beam shot on that companies website. http://www.candb-seen.co.uk/uploads/...56d3f5d3b3.jpg

    Specs say 150 grams and waterproof to IPX5.

    Good looking light.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by arc View Post
    There are two things I noticed in the second picture of the first post. The Led's look really warm and if the bars spin in a crash it could be very expensive.

    I found a beam shot on that companies website. http://www.candb-seen.co.uk/uploads/...56d3f5d3b3.jpg

    Specs say 150 grams and waterproof to IPX5.

    Good looking light.
    I would say that the lights are quite warm in tint. Against a white wall they have a cool blue look but out in the field they are warm (which I now prefer).

    Talking about crashes, I have had a few in the past and surprisingly, the lights never get hurt, just me and my pride.

    Weight wise, mine weighed 118ish grams so 120 for round numbers but that was without any of the O-rings and fitting stuff.

    Their website beamshots look pants and are more likely to put you off than make your mind up for you.

  10. #10
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    With respect to their rear light, I have no means to measure the output but let us just say, it is seriously bright, even in the low steady state it is bright. I also have a Lupine rear light and it is an easy match for that. I have turned mine upside down and have screwed it to my saddle for permanent attachment, I only use it in really bad rain or fog/snow conditions as it is just a little too bright for most drivers - but they have no excuse to not see you.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by EFMax View Post
    ...Their website beamshots look pants and are more likely to put you off than make your mind up for you.
    Okay but at least I can tell that for the most part the beam pattern looks very flood-ish and very dispersed. I see no discernible hot spot. Considering the claimed output I have to wonder what it is going to look like in one of the lower modes.

    Looking forward to your own beam shot photos. Is there another "review thread" on this lamp somewhere?

  12. #12
    arc
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    Quote Originally Posted by EFMax View Post
    I would say that the lights are quite warm in tint. Against a white wall they have a cool blue look but out in the field they are warm (which I now prefer).

    Talking about crashes, I have had a few in the past and surprisingly, the lights never get hurt, just me and my pride.

    Weight wise, mine weighed 118ish grams so 120 for round numbers but that was without any of the O-rings and fitting stuff.

    Their website beamshots look pants and are more likely to put you off than make your mind up for you.
    I would be worried about one of the lights smashing into the frame, it doesn't look like they would clear the top tube in the picture.

    Their beamshot doesn't look that bad considering the weather, its weird they didn't show any beamshots with better conditions.

  13. #13
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    Beam Shots

    Finally got out last night to do some pictures. Normally I know the standard settings are F4 @ 6secs, these were done at F4 @ 4secs, not too sure why the camera kept going back to this even though it was on manual but it was 2am, cold, a bit wet on the ground and windy so I just snapped away and got back indoors double quick., will need to check that out later.. anyway this is what I recorded. Camera is on a tripod using a lens equal to 24mm. ASA is set at 200. Normal white balance and no image editing beyond size reduction for uploading.

    Ok, so I started off with a fresh battery.
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    Voltage is a healthy 16.6v, don't forget I run two lights, one from 12v-20v and this review one from the same battery but with a step down voltage regulator giving out a steady 8.5v. All is enclosed in the water bottle. The battery is a 6750mAh 14.8v LiPo with a 100w/H capacity.
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    First Shot - with only light from a flash unit so as to highlight the reflective jacket on the lamp post - which is 115ft away.
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    Test Shot - zero lights. F4 @ 4secs.
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    Lowest level output - this I use for street night riding so as to be seen but it offers no real value off-road. The reflective jacket can still been seen about 40m away. This gives a car doing approx 30mph about 2 seconds between seeing you and hitting you.
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    Level 4 (factory set MED).
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    Level 8 (factory set HIGH).
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    Camera is now to the left of the bike by about 10ft.
    Lowest level output - this I use for street night riding so as to be seen but it offers no real value off-road. The reflective jacket can still been seen.
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    Camera is now to the left of the bike by about 10ft
    Level 4 (factory set MED).
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    Camera is now to the left of the bike by about 10ft
    Level 8 (factory set HIGH).
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    Camera by the left side of the bike looking over the handle bar and the lens is now set at 90mm setting to focus just on the reflective jacket 115ft away. This is L1
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    As above. This is L4
    The 2nd reflective band in the background is 150ft away from the camera.
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    As above. This is L8
    The 2nd reflective band in the background is 150ft away from the camera. It is brighter but only just.
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    As above. This is L10 - This is in program mode and I have taken it to two levels above the factory setting of HIGH. The 2nd reflective band in the background is 150ft away from the camera.
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    Camera is now to the right of the bike by about 10ft.
    Lowest level output - this I use for street night riding so as to be seen but it offers no real value off-road. The reflective jacket can still been seen.
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    Level 4 (factory set MED).
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    Level 8 (factory set HIGH).
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    I look forward to people's feedback as I hope this is a fair reflection of what I saw outdoors today.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by EFMax View Post
    I look forward to people's feedback as I hope this is a fair reflection of what I saw outdoors today.
    EFMax, thanks for the photos. I know how hard it is to take good photos when it's cold so I really appreciate the effort.

    My thoughts; I'm not as impressed as I'd thought I'd be. Beam pattern appears more narrow than expected. Not that that's a bad thing per say. I wish you hadn't used a reflective vest as a target object. I much prefer a more benignly reflective object as target so as to judge how well a normal object is being seen ( as per when MTB'ing ). Not to mention that you set up the shots on the grass. Grass tends to make beam shots look more dramatic because grass ( cut grass ) is more highly reflective. I would of rather you had used the paved path as it is darker surface.

    On high the lamp looks to do rather well but I have my doubts that it is providing an actual 3K lumen max output. Illumination at 115 ft. is not bad but if we're dealing with something outputting 3K lm I would expect to see way more detail at 115 ft. I have a 3 emitter setup ( XM-L2 U3(?) ( ~ 2200 lumen ) that will give me detail ( on grass ) in the 200 ft range without too much problem. Could be that optics for XM-L2 are just better for throw than what you can get for XP-G3's. Below, a photo I took of my BT40S during dry conditions. Tree at the top is about *135 ft away. Not bad for a cheap XP-G2 4-up. ( *photo taken when BT40S was first released ) Second photo is of my two emitter Gemini DuoR. ( two spot optics ) The fence is about 170 ft. away if my memory serves me. Note you can see the rungs in the wooden fence.

    Quick question about your battery; You mentioned you are using an 8.4 voltage regulator to keep the voltage within range. Regulators often have limited current output. Do you know the listed maximum output current for your regulator? Parting thought; Is is possible you underestimated the distance to the pole? Looks like it might be more than 115 ft. to me ( of course with photo's it's hard to tell )
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Review: C&B Seen 7up-bt40s%40135.jpg  

    Review: C&B Seen 7up-duo-3-copy.jpg  


  15. #15
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    Thanks for the feedback... will make a note of the points you made.

    I would have preferred them not to have use the LEDs that they did as I still love the way the L2-T6s behave.

    I am also still unsure I if prefer lens over reflectors.

    I am trying not to let my last light which was crazy bright overshadow my thinking but I agree, the 3K Lumen claim is not what I would expect.

    I still like the light as it is not badly priced especially when compared to the prices a HBFlex board for my last light upgrade.

    With respect to the voltage dropper, it says it will handle 3amps so my max draw is below this. It doesn't get hot as it has a reasonable heat sink which I have then mated to an empty can of red bull which are inside of the water bottle - the main battery sits inside of the can and the voltage meter is only connected to the main battery as I set the regulator to 8.5v in advance of fitting it all together.

    When I get a chance I will go out into a more trail like area (when it warms up a bit as it was trying unsuccessfully to snow this morning) and I will also get the camera to work at 6secs at F4 so as to get a recording more in line with what others use.. and I will try and set the angle of the light a bit better as I do a fair amount of road riding as well, I am always conscious of dazzling on-coming traffic.

    Distance was measured by my Garmin bike unit, so I am guessing it is pretty close in its accuracy.. I shall measure my steps next time as well as they are about a metre apart.. CHEERS..

  16. #16
    arc
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    I was expecting more light and a wider beam. There is a Skyraider59 review of an older light on candlepowerforums that made close to its advertised lumens. C and B Seen lists this light as 20 watts maximum output. The Cree characterization tool set for S5 bin and 20 led watts comes in around 3000 lumens depending on optical efficiency at 25C junction temperature. At 85C its still over 2500 lumens.

    I'd love to see what the light looks like disassembled. Looks like it could be a great host especially if the remote is on a separate board. How wide is the optic?

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    Beam shots (2nd attempt)

    Okay, I went back out again and found another location. I must say that an exposure of six seconds seems a lot and does cause some of the higher light settings to seem washed out.. anyway here goes.

    Control shot. F4 @ 6secs.
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    L2 setting, this is the one setting above the preset LOW setting.
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    L5 setting, this is one setting above the preset MED setting.
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    L8 setting, this is the preset HIGH setting.
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    L10 setting, this two settings above the normal preset HIGH setting.
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  18. #18
    RAKC Industries
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    6 seconds is way over exposed, it's really hard to get a proper exposure but lengthening the time doesn't work. Use ISO with only minor adjustments to exposure. It works better.

    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk
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    The 6 seconds at F4 "standard MTBR" setting was established long before LEDs got so powerful. There was a subsequent "High Power standard" agreed upon a few years ago but I don't recall what it was.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  20. #20
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    These photos look much better. Yeah, the 6 sec. is likely too much ( exposure ) for the higher output. Still, I'm getting a better sense of what this lamp is capable of. Looks to easily throw about 200-300 ft. on high.

  21. #21
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    I forgot the standard as well it was lower and iso was higher instead. I usually just adjust settings to match what I see.

    I need to try taking beam shots with my GoPro now but i know with video I have to adjust it based on mode. 2.0 increase in exposure with a high iso works great till you hit above about 1800 lumens. Then any hot spot washed out.

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    I just like the way OP mounted this.
    DAMN THE MUD, FULL SPEED AHEAD!!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlMarin View Post
    I just like the way OP mounted this.
    I'd be concerned about a crash that tries to spin the bars around banging the light bracket into the frame.

    As a plus, the light comes standard with a decent looking cam-lock type mount. Would have been a joke to see a light like that with the typical Chinese O-ring mounting. One good hit and the top of the front tire would be the only thing well lit. On my 6 LED light I used to use dual O-ring mounts and it still moved a bit despite being ~20% lighter than the C and B seen light.
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    His way of mounting in defiantly creative. I like the idea as well but same concerns, frame contact.

    I was looking at the OP pics and realized something. The shear lack of surface area that it has considering what they are trying to push from it. The fins look more like dimples. I'd be rather concerned with cooking that thing once the weather warms up. But that too only applies if its producing near the rated lumens.

    Good option/competition for the bt40 in cheap bar lights.

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    Size wise, it is about the same as the Lupine Wilma (I still have one somewhere).. heat wise, when I tried it indoors, first with no fan, it got warm then it got hot but it stayed on for a good 20mins before I decided to put the fan over it.. I am guessing that with temps around 15*c at night in the warmer UK times, while moving, it should not really be an issue.

    I keep looking back to my last lamp, this weighed in at 3x the weight of this light but so much of that was for cooling and may well have been a bit ott, that said I did some night time stuff in Bali a few years back where it was 24*c at like 2am and the lights coped very well.. the other lamp I have below it is by Trail Tech - they claim 2500L and the casing on that is over kill as it just does not break a sweat when standing still.

    A few people have talked about crashes and what might happen to the light, but I have had two bad stacks, both put me in hospital and on neither accident, did the lights (which have always been in the same position) ever done anything more than move side ways.. had more of an issue with my brake levers where one of my Hope levers snapped..

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    I'd be concerned about a crash that tries to spin the bars around banging the light bracket into the frame...
    How's that? Looks like he has it mounted just under the upper part of where the headset is. I had to look at my own Mt bike just to see if this is possible ( and still have the lamp turn when moving the handlebars ). Hmm...I suppose it's possible but it seems unlikely to me to be a danger. It would certainly take an extreme turn of the bars to hit the frame.

    That said, as nice looking as his mounting is I don't think I'd mount it in the same area as the OP did. On my bike that corresponds to the area where all my cables cross. Likely I'd use a bar extension and mount so the lamp lines up with the front of the handlebars. A lamp like this begs to be mounted high. I say this because likely the close-in spill is going to be intense. Mounting low will increase the brightness of the foreground area, perhaps even washing out the terrain when run on the higher modes. If true it could certainly effect the ability to see things in the distance.

    I can't help but wonder what the remote would look like when mounted on the bars. OP has his mounted on the top tube. No way would I want it there.

    Anyone else thinking of getting one of these? I'm still thinking about it but I need to see how well the remote can mount while on the bars.

    @EFMax; Judging from the newer photos: L5 looks good for medium but I might consider L6 for a bit more throw. L2 for low looks fine. I know the photo for high is washed out but if the lamp can throw that far than L8 for high is fine.

    BTW, I love that natural surface trail, with such a great straightaway it seems perfect for testing the throw-ability of bike lights. Is this typical of trails in the English countryside? Can you do a photo of the remote mounted on the bars? I'd just like to see what that might look like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    How's that?
    My old flat bar cross bike had a pretty good scratch and small gouge in the top tube where the cantilever brake cable support (same part that the OP is using for a light mount) hit the frame in a crash that tried to spin the bars >180 degrees. Drop bar bikes usually hit the handle bar into the frame before the brake bracket hits. Maybe I had the bracket tighter than it needed to be. In any case the damage was cosmetic mainly as the frame was aluminum but was right there in plain sight and bugged me for a long time.
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    Lesson to learn:. Don't crash

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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    His way of mounting in defiantly creative. I like the idea as well but same concerns, frame contact.

    I was looking at the OP pics and realized something. The shear lack of surface area that it has considering what they are trying to push from it. The fins look more like dimples. I'd be rather concerned with cooking that thing once the weather warms up. But that too only applies if its producing near the rated lumens.

    Good option/competition for the bt40 in cheap bar lights.

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    Their specs say 20 watts max output, hope it has some thermal protection built in.

    It looks like there is a lot of light close to the bike. I'm guessing its a Ledil Anna TIR so there's not many options if you want to change the beam angle, maybe XPL hi's or dedomed Nichias?

    Do you think its running a boost driver with all the LED's in series?

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    It could be, not common on lower prices lights though.

    Thing is your looking at 20v (rounded) to get 20W and that's 1A per emitter. Or flip it around to parallel. Either way at best before losses your at 2800 lumens. Actual is maybe 2500 at that rating.

    Now I haven't done any extensive testing with xpg3 emitters yet. Have some, not installed in anything to see how they perform. Specs of them look good so 2400-2500 lumens OTF is possible if that is actually a ledil optic and not a Chinese clone. But the not getting hot thing has me wondering and debating on getting my hands on one to put through the sphere and such. See what it actually does. Problem is I need a nother light like I need a hole in the head. Could have bought a carbon fiber road bike instead of a $1k model with the money I have in lights on my desk collecting dust lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    How's that? Looks like he has it mounted just under the upper part of where the headset is. I had to look at my own Mt bike just to see if this is possible ( and still have the lamp turn when moving the handlebars ). Hmm...I suppose it's possible but it seems unlikely to me to be a danger. It would certainly take an extreme turn of the bars to hit the frame.

    That said, as nice looking as his mounting is I don't think I'd mount it in the same area as the OP did. On my bike that corresponds to the area where all my cables cross. Likely I'd use a bar extension and mount so the lamp lines up with the front of the handlebars. A lamp like this begs to be mounted high. I say this because likely the close-in spill is going to be intense. Mounting low will increase the brightness of the foreground area, perhaps even washing out the terrain when run on the higher modes. If true it could certainly effect the ability to see things in the distance.

    I can't help but wonder what the remote would look like when mounted on the bars. OP has his mounted on the top tube. No way would I want it there.

    Anyone else thinking of getting one of these? I'm still thinking about it but I need to see how well the remote can mount while on the bars.

    @EFMax; Judging from the newer photos: L5 looks good for medium but I might consider L6 for a bit more throw. L2 for low looks fine. I know the photo for high is washed out but if the lamp can throw that far than L8 for high is fine.

    BTW, I love that natural surface trail, with such a great straightaway it seems perfect for testing the throw-ability of bike lights. Is this typical of trails in the English countryside? Can you do a photo of the remote mounted on the bars? I'd just like to see what that might look like.
    Hi.. The remote has a downside.. it is flat and not handle bar friendly, which is a pity because even with the fitting kit (it is a three piece job, whereby the remote slides into a base unit and that unit is then attached to the handle bar).. I just cannot understand why they did it that way, hence why I have it on the top mount as mine is very flat and sits okay under the Garmin unit and thus is easy for my hand to locate in the darkness..

    The lens (so the blurb says) are lens from some place in Finland and not Chinese - they don't give a lot away but they felt the need to bring that fact to your attention.

    I still feel that the light deals with the heat side of things very well.. the L8 setting seems more than enough for me but you can program the high, med and low setting on a scale of 1-10 and for daytime road use L1 is plenty of light to be seen.. off road I find I can ride okay on L4 or L5 .

    The path that I have photographed is my exercise route down by the river.. we have some off road trails near me (Swinley Forest) which is dedicated to runners, dog walkers and bikers.. we don't have the great weather as some parts of the world but they have a number of routes there which are suited for all skill levels... the place where I have had two of my accidents has now been flatten because they were having too many accidents there whereby almost every other weekend an air ambulance was lifting some kid out and I think that maybe the pressure was on for the local council and the owners (The Ministry of Defence) to do something about it..

    I have a spare light (the one that got toasted when I gave it 16v.. if you wanted to pick it apart to see what is inside then you are more than welcome, just PM me with your details and I will happily send it to you for you to break it down without wasting your money

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by EFMax View Post
    Hi.. The remote has a downside.. it is flat and not handle bar friendly, which is a pity because even with the fitting kit (it is a three piece job, whereby the remote slides into a base unit and that unit is then attached to the handle bar).. I just cannot understand why they did it that way, hence why I have it on the top mount as mine is very flat and sits okay under the Garmin unit and thus is easy for my hand to locate in the darkness..
    It would of been nice if the website had a photo of the remote mounted on the bars. If the underside of the remote is completely flat that indeed could be a problem. I already use a two button remote when using the Gemini lamps I have. Their remote though is slightly curved on the underside and works very well on the bars. The Gemini remotes however are designed to mount in "cross" fashion, not parallel with the bars as the C&BS's I'm thinking that some strategically placed soft foam or rubber bits might solve the mounting issue with the remote. Real shame they use two buttons as the second button is only for the flash mode. ( Who needs flash on a lamp like this? )
    EFM, would you be so kind as to supply the dimensions of the remote ( with base ). I'd like to know how it compares in size to the remote I currently use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    EFM, would you be so kind as to supply the dimensions of the remote ( with base ). I'd like to know how it compares in size to the remote I currently use.
    The unit is approx 35mm by 20mm by 10mm
    The base is approx 45mm by 25mm by 5mm

    The unit slides in very tightly and would never move or fall out.. but why they did not make it more bar friendly is beyond me.
    Last edited by EFMax; 4 Weeks Ago at 01:20 AM.

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    Review: C&B Seen 7up-004-2-.jpg

    This is a mount from an old Gemini Titan (cheap and available) I use for my Gloworm remote (attached with velcro). Mount top measures 20 x 30 mm, any reason you couldn't velcro or glue the remote to this? O-ring mounting also allows switching from bike to bike easily.
    Mole

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    ^^...Glory be! You earn the, "Tip of the Month" award for that idea! A most excellent idea indeed! I bet the C&BSeen remote would work with one of those as well, although there would be some overhang. ( use the Industrial strength Velcro if the normal stuff isn't strong enough.) Of course Gloworm has their own plastic remote mount now but theirs requires the use of plastic ties. I much prefer an easy to remove O-ring. This idea rocks.

    ( I can't give MrMole any more greenies right now. Someone be nice and give him a few for me... )

    Quote Originally Posted by EFMax View Post
    The unit is approx 35mm by 20mm by 10mm
    The base is approx 45mm by 25mm by 15mm

    The unit slides in very tightly and would never move or fall out.. but why they did not make it more bar friendly is beyond me.
    Thanks EF. This remote is very close in size to the two button Gemini remote mount. Likely I could make the C&BSeen remote work on my bike but I'd need to use one of the plastic mounts like MRM recommended. A little glue, a little Velcro, the right size O-ring...should work.

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    So Cat, are you going to buy one of these lights? It looks like it may make a reasonable alternative to the BT40s for a bar light. Added cost would be easily justified by the mode programmable driver, additional light output (yet to be substantiated), wireless remote, and the beam pattern might work better for some people (more throw). Even if it only makes half the claimed power it still looks like it would be a reasonable deal with all those features. Glad you liked the mount suggestion.
    Mole

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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    So Cat, are you going to buy one of these lights? It looks like it may make a reasonable alternative to the BT40s for a bar light. Added cost would be easily justified by the mode programmable driver, additional light output (yet to be substantiated), wireless remote, and the beam pattern might work better for some people (more throw). Even if it only makes half the claimed power it still looks like it would be a reasonable deal with all those features. Glad you liked the mount suggestion.
    Mole
    *sigh* Not sure I want to drop another $50 on a lamp that likely is gonna end up collecting dust in a box. I already know I prefer lamps with standard optics ( like Gloworm or ITUO ). I tend not to like the beam pattern of lamps ( used on the bars ) that utilize a round multi-optic but the BT40S is an example of the exception to that rule. It's tempting but I'm also considering another lamp ( with cut-off ) for road use. Damn, my trigger finger is itching and my credit card is starting to talk to me. I'm still on the fence. Decisions, decisions.

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    Several of us here want (but don't need) this light. It will be interesting to see who caves first and gets one. I know it's only a matter of time and it will be nice to get some lux or lumen measurements + evaluation from a familiar source.
    Mole

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    I'd be tempted myself, but my budget for this stuff has drastically been cut.

    -Garry

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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    I'd be tempted myself, but my budget for this stuff has drastically been cut.

    -Garry
    I'm tempted but I have two lights I want to try emitter swaps on first. If you or Keith don't grab EFMax's burnt light for a teardown soon I just might. How they are doing a remote and get seven emitters to share the current equally at that price point makes me curious as hell.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by arc View Post
    I'm tempted but I have two lights I want to try emitter swaps on first. If you or Keith don't grab EFMax's burnt light for a teardown soon I just might. How they are doing a remote and get seven emitters to share the current equally at that price point makes me curious as hell.
    Well, not too hard to set-up a 2S/3P emitter and then power the lone emitter with a bleed-off setup using a transistor...or just put in parallel with the other 3P's and just add a normal diode in series with the last emitter to balance the current/voltage drops.

    As for price; it's Chinese. That's all the explanation you need.

    A little off-topic comment here; About the BLF A6 torch I mentioned before; I figured out how to change the mode menu ( 7/4 modes ) and set it up as 4-modes with memory....sweet. Last night while at work I stopped to test it out on a really dark ( dry ) paved asphalt road. Sweet Jesus; on high it lit the whole road up for at least for 300 ft. ( if not more ) Can't wait to see it in action with a good bar lamp.

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    Cat- it's a crazy light at full power but only lasts 45 seconds iirc in that mode. Being it's design make sure to bring plenty of cells if riding for more than 20-30 minutes. Things eat battery's like crazy. I carry it as a backup light usually because it'll light up EVERYTHING like you said for 300ft+

    Also it gets hot fast.

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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Well, not too hard to set-up a 2S/3P emitter and then power the lone emitter with a bleed-off setup using a transistor...or just put in parallel with the other 3P's and just add a normal diode in series with the last emitter to balance the current/voltage drops.

    As for price; it's Chinese. That's all the explanation you need.

    A little off-topic comment here; About the BLF A6 torch I mentioned before; I figured out how to change the mode menu ( 7/4 modes ) and set it up as 4-modes with memory....sweet. Last night while at work I stopped to test it out on a really dark ( dry ) paved asphalt road. Sweet Jesus; on high it lit the whole road up for at least for 300 ft. ( if not more ) Can't wait to see it in action with a good bar lamp.

    They are an English company using a Chinese builder trying to occupy the middle ground between cheap stuff and the established high end manufacturers. To me they seem on par with Ituo and Gloworm, except for crappier batteries and a working remote.

    I built up a Convoy S6 single cell light similar to your A6 using Mountain Electronic's fet driver and three XPL Hi's. The highest level blows away a Wiz 20, it gets hot fast and steps down on temperature after a couple minutes. If I put the lense against a piece of cardboard with the light on high it makes a cluster of three burn marks and smoke in less than thirty seconds. I'm too paranoid about the light accidentally turning on, starting on high and starting a fire so I leave memory mode turned off and let it start on moon. It would be great on the helmet on the medium modes. Nice and light with no cords, might need some kind of Vanc mount though.

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    I tried the same triple set up in mine, about 1800 lumens on the sphere @ 30 seconds (over 2000 at cold start) on a ncr18650ga cell. Too hot to hold after that. And it sucks that 3500mah in a few minutes. So I keep my triple builds to standard 3.0A drivers instead of direct drive. Have one that's xp-l hi and other is 219c. Get a usable amount of runtime for EDC use. About 1100-1200 lumens (rarely used on high)

    I really like the beam pattern of triple optics that small, want to machine a bar light using a triple with xpg3 just haven't had the time. Have a custom driver from MTN for it (and a couple other builds).

    Quality may be solid but the head design alone says they cant come near Ituo or even considered same class as Gloworm for performance. But that's the light nerd in me coming out lol. Think their more on par with magicshine but better designed.

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  45. #45
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    My light has a Carclo spot triple optic and a big copper spacer that takes a little while to heat up. Its running on Bistro, no turbo timer just steps down on heat. Its basically one quarter of a Supfire Mega M6 and Mountain Electronics had those pushing over 10000 lumens. I don't have a sphere but it's hard to believe its only 1800 lumens, did you bypass the tailcap spring on yours?

    Mine turned out to be floodier than I expected but its great for at work, the first five levels are well spaced and you definitely know when you hit six. The light will turn off instantly on that level if I use the wrong cells so I'm guessing its over 7 amps draw.

    I've seen the A6 on sale for cheap recently so people not that knowledgeable about them will probably end up buying one. These little fet driven lights get really hot and bright. There's people here that understand how to safely handle them and probably a bunch that don't. These lights can burn things and kids, shining one of these into someone's eyes or catching a mirror by accident will be really bad. If the light is not being used immediately its best to pull the battery or mechanically lock the light out, having it turn on accidentally and unsupervised would be really dangerous.

    Having said that I want one that will boil the water out of a mosquito at five feet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arc View Post
    ......Mine turned out to be floodier than I expected but its great for at work,
    That's pretty typical of Carclo optics. My experience with them is they always make a wider beam than the specs would lead one to expect.
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    Mine was over 2000 at cold start, at 30 seconds which everything gets pretty damn hot (I had the same custom copper spacer, artic silver paste etc to get the heat away from the emitters) and at 45 seconds it steps off turbo mode. 1800 was the number I recorded at the 30 second mark. Thing is those optics being wide makes for A LOT of light in close so turns night into day pretty quick. My basic triples are 11-1200 and pretty damn bright just because of the optics. But total crap for throw against a light with 400 less lumens on a single larger reflector.

    I didnt try to push my A6 with the triple set up (truly I think I was the first person to try it, I was in the very first batch to get the BLF A6, Tigris99 over there) and what TK and such warned me of was right. that thing cooks way to damn fast and battery life is just wiped using XP-L HI. If your driver is full direct drive you can get about 12amps or so for a brief period before voltage drops too much. My optics and emitters were used though so closer to 2000 out of the box before optics and such get dirty is possible.

    I went back to standard format single xp-l hi so it was at least usable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    Cat- it's a crazy light at full power but only lasts 45 seconds iirc in that mode. Being it's design make sure to bring plenty of cells if riding for more than 20-30 minutes. Things eat battery's like crazy. I carry it as a backup light usually because it'll light up EVERYTHING like you said for 300ft+

    Also it gets hot fast.

    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk
    Yeah, I read that it has a time limit on the boost mode ( in 7-mode menu ). Not sure if the high mode works the same way in the 4-mode. Either way, that's fine for me. I don't use the high mode for more than a minute anyway. Yep, as bright as it is I'm sure it is going to drain a battery real fast. Still, the medium mode is more than enough for basic use and I ALWAYS carry an extra cell when using a torch.

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    OK, I ordered the 3000 lumen light-head + remote. I guess the review starts now to see how long it takes to get the light to Arizona from the UK (I've always had good luck with anything ordered from UK). Sent them an email inquiring about the estimated shipping times so we'll also see how quickly they respond. Light-head + remove option was $56.33 @ the current exchange rate. More to follow (hopefully soon).
    Mole

    ***C&B Seen website has already changed since I ordered last night. Light-head + remote is no longer shown, Hmm. Was also looking around on the website and noticed on the home page is says that their offices are closed from 3/25 to 4/17 (link in the OP first post takes you to the "bike light section" which is where I ordered the light from) so I don't expect anything to happen soon, unfortunate***
    Last edited by MRMOLE; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:29 PM.

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    Hot Dang! Mole, I knew one of us would buckle...LOL Looking forward to your review.

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