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  1. #501
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    I finally got a chance to get out on these lights for a real mtn. ride. Rode to a nearby trail that had a nice loop that I could do back to back to compare the road and trail versions of the OL lights. I also rode a bit of the tighter sections using the trail without the Gloworm X2 that I was using as a helmet light to see how it handled the trail solo. So here's what I think!

    The trail version is just not for me. Developed to ride in the woods/forests where Matt rides the extremely wide beam is mostly wasted on the more open desert trails I ride which values more throw IMO. Extra beam width also diminishes intensity but running the trail in the highest 2 settings would activate the thermal protection in the 105 degree ride temp last night (also the X2).

    Road version worked great on the roads, MUP's and trails I rode last night. Beam width is what I'm used to for a bar light and the smaller coverage area increased the intensity of the beam to the point where I ended up using the second to the lowest setting for pretty much everything. Even in this mode the road seemed much brighter than the trail which increased visibility plus the lower setting allowed the light to run cooler. Want to compare the road version to my Wiz20 next since that's currently my favorite road/MUP light. Should be interesting.
    Mole

  2. #502
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    Thanks for the notes guys!

    I do agree that if doing open air riding like above the tree line in the mountains (ya'll crazy) or in 105* deserts (ya'll crazy) then the focus on ultra wide beam pattern and homogeneous light will be lost for the trail version and probably are going to be better off with a more traditional thrower, or at least until we make another reflector (entirely possible!) or just another light.

    I did just pick up a GoPro Hero6 Black to try and get some riding in with it since the low-light performance is far better than my old Hero2 that I have, and more importantly, it has superview! Finally a way to really show just how wide and even the light spread is.

    Here are some screenshots from a quick jaunt around my neighborhood on my Stache 5, not exactly the best road bike!

    This is the highest rated bike light on Amazon, with over 3500 reviews. Very similar to a typical spot/throw type light. Has a lux value that is easily 1.5-2x higher than the peak lux of the road light. I had to aim it down a bit so not blinding people going for a walk (it was a beautiful night last night), while the road version was aimed such that it also wasn't blinding people thanks to the cutoff.

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----35885803_10100310928549703_1837661668092411904_n.jpg

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----36002605_10100310928699403_2845938007133913088_n.jpg

    Quick screenshots from my GoPro app obviously doesn't tell the whole story, so will be getting video here soon. For now here's a thrown together clip showing that same Amazon light at first, clicking up to the highest mode, then turning on the Trail light. After that it's just walking around with the Road Light and my pup wanting to see what I'm up to.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNce6qOOaMY
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  3. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    .....The trail version is just not for me. Developed to ride in the woods/forests where Matt rides the extremely wide beam
    I'm quite sure I'd have the same opinion of the trail version. For me, light way out to the sides is just lighting up places you are not going. The very wide beam is what made me lose enthusiasm for the trail version and not get in on the KS buy.



    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    ....Road version worked great on the roads, MUP's and trails I rode last night. Beam width is what I'm used to for a bar light and the smaller coverage area increased the intensity of the beam to the point where I ended up using the second to the lowest setting for pretty much everything.
    For trail use the road version still has some attraction for me. It will be interesting to hear and see what others think about the road version in trail use.
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  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    I'm quite sure I'd have the same opinion of the trail version. For me, light way out to the sides is just lighting up places you are not going. The very wide beam is what made me lose enthusiasm for the trail version and not get in on the KS buy.
    In the deserts and barren areas, where the light is just going way into space it's a form of wasted energy. However in the woods it's giving your eyes and brain more information to collect, which makes riding in general more comfortable, and more "day like". There is no shortage of brighter more intense more focused lights out there, but lots of people who used to ride with Niterider 1800's, Lupines, and high powered spot lights are always really surprised how much they enjoy the massive even width.

    Really looking forward to putting together some videos comparing different lights on the same section of trails.
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  5. #505
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    ...would love to see one of the road version in the rain to see how the beam is affected.

  6. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC Shelby View Post
    ...would love to see one of the road version in the rain to see how the beam is affected.
    I've heard some rumors about you wanting that.

    Not much rain in the forecast at night in my area for a while (big thunderstorms this morning and afternoon), but I'll make it a note the next time it's raining at night if someone else doesn't beat me to it!
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  7. #507
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    ...cool. Rain does affect visibility to the point where the usual spot type lights often seem almost ineffective. A more diffuse beam should do better I would think

  8. #508
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    For those of you that did get the lights through the website, and are happy with it, it would mean a lot to me if you guys could leave a review for the lights that you bought!

    https://www.outboundlighting.com/products/

    Just need to login and can review anything you purchased.
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  9. #509
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    Got mine last week and had a chance to test it on the trail. Beam pattern is absolutely phenomenal along with the color temp. I don't even need to worry about running a helmet lamp anymore and this is definitely the best bike light I've used yet over 20 years of night riding. The only complaint I have is that there doesn't seem to be any difference between the output of the first 3 modes, of course this is based off of my mk1 mod0 eyeball and not a lux meter. I'm sure there's a difference but it isn't noticeable.

  10. #510
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    Had a chance to ride on a trail with both versions. I prefer the Trail version over the road version just because it's more evenly lit when I'm riding up against cliffs/rocks/bushes. I am the type of rider though who just likes a helmet light as well. I'll try the road version up there and I suspect that will do the trick very nicely! Here's a youtube vid, excuse my crappy narrative and poor editing skills but if you're on the fence about which version, or if you want any version, this should be helpful.


  11. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlienRFX View Post
    Got mine last week and had a chance to test it on the trail. Beam pattern is absolutely phenomenal along with the color temp. I don't even need to worry about running a helmet lamp anymore and this is definitely the best bike light I've used yet over 20 years of night riding. The only complaint I have is that there doesn't seem to be any difference between the output of the first 3 modes, of course this is based off of my mk1 mod0 eyeball and not a lux meter. I'm sure there's a difference but it isn't noticeable.
    So glad to hear!

    Yes the modes are hard to tell, especially in the first few minutes. Once the light is fully warmed up and operational (we are working on speeding that up, software thing) then the modes get a littttle more defined. Medium-High is still hard to tell a difference. However the amperage difference is there, and can certainly save a lot of battery life by running on lower modes.
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  12. #512
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    Just received mine yesterday in Scotland. Won't get to use them properly for a while (this far North darkness is basically 11.30 pm to 3 am). I'm well impressed by the road beam though - at least as wide a beam as the Saferide, more homogeneous beam, better mount and (I hope) battery life.

  13. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    Had a chance to ride on a trail with both versions. I prefer the Trail version over the road version just because it's more evenly lit when I'm riding up against cliffs/rocks/bushes. I am the type of rider though who just likes a helmet light as well. I'll try the road version up there and I suspect that will do the trick very nicely! Here's a youtube vid, excuse my crappy narrative and poor editing skills but if you're on the fence about which version, or if you want any version, this should be helpful.

    ...hmm from my perspective, it looks as if the road light illuminates further ahead. I would think it would be the opposite. Both together, crikey that's "rolling daylight".

    Scary looking trail with those drop offs to one side.

  14. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC Shelby View Post
    ...hmm from my perspective, it looks as if the road light illuminates further ahead. I would think it would be the opposite. Both together, crikey that's "rolling daylight".

    Scary looking trail with those drop offs to one side.
    The Road light does reach further, which is preferred on straight sections obviously. Where the Trail light is brilliant though is when youíre twisting the bars back and forth working the trail itís just very even. There was a point in the video I commented about where the Road light makes hotspots on close by objects whereas the Trail doesnít.
    Itís all very dependent on the type of trails you ride most. Iím gonna put the road version on my helmet with the patch cord and keep the battery in my Jersey pocket. This should give me all I could ask for as I wonít be chasing the hotspot AND I can see beyond the Trail version.
    Yeah, trails like that one in the video with a drop on one side definitely have the potential for consequences, thatís why I prefer a bar/helmet setup.
    Iím super impressed with the coverage of both lights and the build quality. Outbound has done a great job here.

  15. #515
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    ...thanks, that really helped to sell me on the road version (which is the one I am interested in) as I primarily ride in urban areas but where many side streets are very poorly lit.

    Our city switched from the more diffuse sodium streetlamps to these new LED ones which have a narrower light cone and almost no light spill so unlit areas between them are a lot darker

  16. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC Shelby View Post
    ...thanks, that really helped to sell me on the road version (which is the one I am interested in) as I primarily ride in urban areas but where many side streets are very poorly lit.

    Our city switched from the more diffuse sodium streetlamps to these new LED ones which have a narrower light cone and almost no light spill so unlit areas between them are a lot darker
    The road version is indeed a more focused beam than the trail, so it does reach further. It has almost triple the peak lux than the road. Both are identical chips, drivers, etc. Only difference is the reflector design. Also goes to show just how small changes in the reflector can have big differences!
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  17. #517
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    ...indeed. It will be perfect on the poorly lit backstreets where I live and the wide beam will be very noticeable at intersections. Also should catch the eyes of cats and raccoons (the latter very numerous here) well in advance. Some of those raccoons I've seen are so big, they outweigh a small dog.

    Need to wait until next month's benefit cheque. Colour me very impressed.

  18. #518
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    Hey guys! About to head out here in a bit to go for some riding, but put together this video discussing what comes with the light, installing it, features, and showing the silicone lens!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEzdon99ttA
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  19. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    In the deserts and barren areas, where the light is just going way into space it's a form of wasted energy. However in the woods it's giving your eyes and brain more information to collect, which makes riding in general more comfortable, and more "day like".
    For me, the wide beam just creates moving shadows from brush and branches off to the side that I would catch in my peripheral vision. Those shadows are distracting and I find myself looking off to the side to verify what I think I saw. Maybe too much information for my brain to collect .

    A wide beam does not equate to being more "day-like". Light coming from a single, close-in point, 3.5 feet off the ground does not mimic daytime riding at all IMO.

    Lighting is very much about personal preferences. That's one of the nice things I'm seeing with Outbound. They are not just putting out a single beam shape and calling it the end all, be all of lights like another KS funded light project did. If I did not already have a bunch of lights to choose from, I'd be looking closely at getting one of the road versions.
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  20. #520
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    Now here's the video I've been excited to shoot. This is more of my "I'm just going to kind of ramble on about lighting" style of talking. No real marketing fluff here, editing was dead simple, just added the company logo.

    I even surprised myself at just how incredible the Trail on the bar, plus Road on the head was, that comparision is around 6:20 in the video. (P.S. don't mind the clickbaity title, gotta do what we gotta do for search optimization. )



    I've got a Seca 1800 on the way, and a Niterider 1800 that I'm going to do some comparisons to. Had a reaaaaal hard time trying to convince myself to buy a $500 lupine setup to show how this beats it.... maybe we'll try to sell a few more lights first before I commit to that. Still have a lot of tooling and inventory to pay off!
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  21. #521
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    Outbound Lighting Focal Series ---- Discussion ----

    For me, the Trail or Road versions as a solo mtb light just doesnít work. You have to have a bar/helmet combo for serious trail riding. With that said, Iím a serious fan of what Outbound has done here. The beam patterns, magnesium cases, long battery life, and component quality seal the deal for me to run a trail/road combo. Granted, itís still $500 in lights, but I canít think of a better value for a safe and reliable setup. Canít wait till my next night ride!

  22. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    For me, the Trail or Road versions as a solo mtb light just doesnít work. You have to have a bar/helmet combo for serious trail riding. With that said, Iím a serious fan of what Outbound has done here. The beam patterns, magnesium cases, long battery life, and component quality seal the deal for me to run a trail/road combo. Granted, itís still $500 in lights, but I canít think of a better value for a safe and reliable setup. Canít wait till my next night ride!
    I agree here, no matter the light, helmet light IMHO is a must. I have ridden with nothing but a helmet light and nothing but a bar light.

    Just a bar light if I know the trails really really well and just cruising is fine for mellow group rides (trails I'm familiar with still). But hammering it I can do with only a helmet light if needed. Group rides I have loaned out my bar light on several occasions (cheap light failures).

    But one thing for trail riding is that 1 light is never a good idea from a safety aspect if riding solo. All it takes is forgetting to charge a battery or even a very minor crash (snag something on the way down and damage a mount or battery cable etc) and your left in the dark.

    I'm very much enjoying my road version. I'm not a restricted beam person when it comes to trails. I have ravemen normally and their cut off does it job but at the speeds I can reach on back roads and such, this light does a much better job of getting light out further without pushing off drivers. Plus I prefer battery pack lights myself, way more run time without running at really low outputs.

    With trails though Everything I ride is mostly wooded and low hanging stuff due to storms is a constant issue. The Trail version is better than the road for this but it's still a concern for me. The whole "wasting light up in the air" I never understood. Matter of personal preference there. I want to make sure even if I turn my head to point my helmet light somewhere anything that could catch me in the face I can still see clearly and in time to react. If I road in the desert or something like that then ok, but in the woods a cutoff type beam isnt my cup of tea. Like my head attached to my shoulders usually.

    I need to get a picture as its mounted and going now on my "whatever" bike (fat bike with 29+ rims/surly extraterrestrial 2.5s for my not winter path/pavement/commuting duties).

    I also noticed the "artifacts" in the beam (verticle shadows) but during use you dont notice and forget about them unless you staring at the ground.

    The strap issue surprises me, I can pull like crazy and I'm a BIG GUY, no issues. Think the problem lies in a production mistake. I do have what looks like little cuts in some spots. They are very shallow and actually appear to have been from air bubbles that got trapped. From my "previous" life in plastics molding that screams lack of or plugged vents in the mold. Also molds getting too hot or too humid it can happen too but usually trapped air issue. Almost impossible to catch till the parts have cooled and fully set.

    My only "complaint", the gopro mount means removing the entire bottom plastic assembly. Wish the strap could just be removed and gopro adapter be added in. I just like the looks of the "scoop"

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  23. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    For me, the Trail or Road versions as a solo mtb light just doesnít work. You have to have a bar/helmet combo for serious trail riding. With that said, Iím a serious fan of what Outbound has done here. The beam patterns, magnesium cases, long battery life, and component quality seal the deal for me to run a trail/road combo. Granted, itís still $500 in lights, but I canít think of a better value for a safe and reliable setup. Canít wait till my next night ride!
    Farfrom,

    I do agree that for serious trail riding, a combo is needed. Though I would argue that most serious trail riders at night already have a decent light. What I would be proposing is getting a trail on the bar, and put that more focused conical spot light on the head. I mention this at around 5:35 in the video. (about how serious riders probably want more than just a single trail), then can come back and put a road up there.



    It really is quite amazing what the fill of the trail can do for the overall experience.

    I am going to put together a kit for this "ultimate solution" and discontinue the combo kit. The full kit will have the trail, road, two batteries, two wall chargers, an extension cord, and I am going to try and source a gopro helmet mount. The idea is that it's the ultimate trail riding solution (that still lets you get 2.5+ hours of runtime on high) but then also lets you have a good solution for the road since seems most of the serious trail riders are also often riding their road bikes in between. I am still figuring out pricing, but it won't be $500, will be mid $400.
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  24. #524
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    I see the attraction, but prefer self-contained on the helmet. Probably more a UK solution, but Exposure Diablo / Maxx-d combination works for me. Since my wife has nicked these, I'll maybe have a play once we get some darkness, but suspect I'll end up buying something like the Diablo again.

  25. #525
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    Looking at the video I was impressed with the beam pattern of the light you are selling. However, I'm going to critique the lamp you used for the comparison. Whatever cheap Chinese single emitter lamp you used in the comparison I have to say, "That is the worse beam pattern I've ever seen from any dedicated bike light ( designed for bar use ). ( Where in the hell did you find that!... ) Since the lamp you are selling is in the $250 price range I would of thought it would be more informative to have compared it to another dedicated multi-emitter brand name bike light in the same price range. Of course if you had indeed done that I'm sure there wouldn't have been so drastic a difference in beam patterns as was shown in the video.

    Not that I'm dissing on the Outbound you are selling. Very nice and smooth beam pattern. Because the beam pattern is so well dispersed I'm figuring this will help lessen any problems with close in reflective glare. I notice the same thing with the Raveman lights I own which too use cool white emitters. When using them I notice very little ( if any ) reflective glare. I think this just goes to show that a lamp with a wide controlled beam pattern can be very useful. I'm going to assume since you have such a unique reflector that this fact will make your setups even more pleasant to use. That said and like others have said even with a lamp like yours I'm still going to combo up and use a helmet lamp.

    Anyway, back to what I was saying about other types of bike lights; I use a Gloworm X2 on the bars. It does a very good job at providing a fairly wide beam pattern as well as decent throw ( although not as wide as any of the Raveman lamps I own ). Now with that said I also own a cheap Convoy S2 torch that I keep on the bars as back up. Any time I turn the S2 on I'm still amazed at how well it will light up a trail. Doesn't have the power or throw of the X2 but it pretty near gives me the same beam pattern. The type of reflector being used makes a big difference. In case of the S2 the one I have uses a smaller more shallower reflector. For something so cheap it does an excellent job of lighting up a trail. On more than one occasion I have mistakenly thought I left my X2 on only to figure out that the X2 was indeed off and it was the S2 that I forgot to turn off.

  26. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Looking at the video I was impressed with the beam pattern of the light you are selling. However, I'm going to critique the lamp you used for the comparison. Whatever cheap Chinese single emitter lamp you used in the comparison I have to say, "That is the worse beam pattern I've ever seen from any dedicated bike light ( designed for bar use ). ( Where in the hell did you find that!... ) Since the lamp you are selling is in the $250 price range I would of thought it would be more informative to have compared it to another dedicated multi-emitter brand name bike light in the same price range. Of course if you had indeed done that I'm sure there wouldn't have been so drastic a difference in beam patterns as was shown in the video.

    Not that I'm dissing on the Outbound you are selling. Very nice and smooth beam pattern. Because the beam pattern is so well dispersed I'm figuring this will help lessen any problems with close in reflective glare. I notice the same thing with the Raveman lights I own which too use cool white emitters. When using them I notice very little ( if any ) reflective glare. I think this just goes to show that a lamp with a wide controlled beam pattern can be very useful. I'm going to assume since you have such a unique reflector that this fact will make your setups even more pleasant to use. That said and like others have said even with a lamp like yours I'm still going to combo up and use a helmet lamp.

    Anyway, back to what I was saying about other types of bike lights; I use a Gloworm X2 on the bars. It does a very good job at providing a fairly wide beam pattern as well as decent throw ( although not as wide as any of the Raveman lamps I own ). Now with that said I also own a cheap Convoy S2 torch that I keep on the bars as back up. Any time I turn the S2 on I'm still amazed at how well it will light up a trail. Doesn't have the power or throw of the X2 but it pretty near gives me the same beam pattern. The type of reflector being used makes a big difference. In case of the S2 the one I have uses a smaller more shallower reflector. For something so cheap it does an excellent job of lighting up a trail. On more than one occasion I have mistakenly thought I left my X2 on only to figure out that the X2 was indeed off and it was the S2 that I forgot to turn off.
    That lamp that was used is the best selling light on Amazon with over 3600 reviews. The BrightEyes one. I've got a Niterider1800 and a Seca 1800 on the way that I am going to also post a comparision video on since you are right, should be comparing similar price points.

    Mostly wanted to illustrate what you get with a $50 bike light. Could try and mount 5 of those on some handlebars and helmet and carry 5 batteries. Might be a video I'll try and do later on.

    Though I will say that the bright eyes it has an identical beam pattern to the BT40S and the KD2 light that a lot of people recommend on here. This one (also prominant on Amazon) is even worse, and I felt like people would think I was reallyyyyy sandbagging if I used this light. (http://www.kaidomain.com/p/S022532.2...ck-and-Charger) Extremely blue output and very tight spot. I couldn't use the BT40S because the mount broke, and the KD2 fried after one use. Only one side of the light illuminates now.

    Rest assured more comparisons will come.
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  27. #527
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    ...will be interesting to see the SECA 1800 comparison as that was one of the other models I was looking at.

  28. #528
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    Outbound Lighting Focal Series ---- Discussion ----

    Quote Originally Posted by oldstrath View Post
    I see the attraction, but prefer self-contained on the helmet. Probably more a UK solution, but Exposure Diablo / Maxx-d combination works for me. Since my wife has nicked these, I'll maybe have a play once we get some darkness, but suspect I'll end up buying something like the Diablo again.
    Iíd prefer a self contained as well for the helmet as well but you gotta compromise somewhere:
    Ease of use / simplicity
    Weight on the helmet
    Throw
    Pattern
    Light color
    Battery life

    I think I get all of those with the Road version EXCEPT ease of use. Putting a battery pack in a bib pocket and running a cable under my shirt to the battery pack is more of a pain in the butt than just using a self contained unit. Not arguing about whatís better, just showing the factors that make me want to mess with an external battery helmet light.

    Also looking forward to the Seca light comparison. Iíve never used them but they seem to be high quality products.

  29. #529
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    I'm sorry, but there's NO WAY that Bright Eyes light has the same beam pattern as a BT40S! The BT40S doesn't have a hotspot and is wide flood (actually a decent comparison to your light). I'm sure you're just confused.

    -Garry

  30. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    I'm sorry, but there's NO WAY that Bright Eyes light has the same beam pattern as a BT40S! The BT40S doesn't have a hotspot and is wide flood (actually a decent comparison to your light). I'm sure you're just confused.

    -Garry
    Garry,

    You are right that the BT40S bit more diffused, but it's still a fairly narrow beam. Remember that the video is shot in GoPro "Superview" which is a massive field of view that's more similar to what our eye sees, kind of why I love it, as it can really show off the width more. I shot a picture of the two lights side by side in my hand, about 4' from my wall. Left is Bright Eyes that was used in the video (and seems everyone on amazon loses their mind over) and the BT40S on the right.

    *EDIT* for some reason MTBR flipped the pic. Bright Eyes on the right, BT40S on the left!

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----img_5802.jpg
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  31. #531
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    I am looking forward to the next night trail ride and hoping for better weather to get a more thorough test in. This time I am going to use both the OL Trail and my Gloworm X2, I think it's going to be really nice on our trails based on my last soggy ride where I just ran the OL Trail and kept the X2 off. I expect to keep the X2 on low and the OL Trail on medium most of the time, and kick them up a notch for the more technical/faster stuff. The X2 has worked out really well as a helmet light, I bought it with this setup in mind and other than selecting the wrong tint it is exactly what I hoped for. As has been mentioned, running 2 lights is essential even if you didn't usually need them both at the same time, only a fool would go into the woods without a backup light.

    Running an OL Road on the helmet looks like it would work fantastically, but I think sticking with the little Gloworm won't be giving up much for my purposes and it is considerably more compact. They weigh about the same and probably have similar power usage. I have been trying to get the right helmet setup for a long time. The Gloworm remote was the final piece of the puzzle, that would be really hard to give up now. Running a bigger or a self-contained helmet light doesn't work for me, just from a mounting standpoint. Too heavy and/or bulky, and if you center the weight it sticks up too high.

    This is the best solution I have come up with for helmet mounting and it works great with the X2, it gives me the option for a light or camera, and I can either strap a 2-cell to the back of the helmet of run a 4-cell in my Osprey pack. Usually the 2-cell is best, it balances the weight of the light which doesn't seem like much but will sometimes cause my helmet to shift down a little bit on the rough stuff.

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----img_20180625_183940.jpgOutbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----img_20180625_183948.jpg
    The mount is one of those cheap little aluminum ones from eBay, it's a decent fit and it is attached with 2-sided tape and a couple of black nylon screws. I used a fine tip awl to punch neat holes, and made a sort of light tap out of a Dremel-tapered steel screw to form some threads. The idea is that the awl punctures and forms the shell plastic into a shaped hole that leaves a little more meat for the threads before the foam, it results in a very minimal pair of holes in the helmet but I plan for it to be permanent anyway. The nylon screws are intended to work as a break-away if the light snags on something solid, and the mount keeps it fairly low, lower than any of my other helmet mounts. I probably could have put it even a little further down on the front, for just that last little bit of vine-avoidance.
    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----img_20180625_184039.jpgOutbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----img_20180625_184030.jpg

  32. #532
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    That will indeed be a killer combo!

    Hope no one is getting the idea from me that you should ditch all your existing lights and only run ours. If you already have a great light like the Seca, or the X2, or some other intense spot ones, putting those on your helmet will be a fantastic addition to the trail edition on the bars, and completely elevate the night riding experience for the mountain bike trails.

    Though for those who are looking to get into night riding, and don't plan on trying to get KOH on Strava the Trail Edition will be plenty good for dipping your toes into it.

    If you do want to go hard because that's the only way you have fun riding (which I totally get!) then the Trail on bars and the Road on the head is going to be that perfect setup (if you don't have any lights already!), and I can say with total confidence it'll be way better than an equivalent priced setup from Lupine, L&M, etc. Then better yet can use the road light on the road, or even just on the helmet and not blind people when oncoming (just have to tilt your head down a bit) or when having a chat since that cutoff helps.

    I really am all about providing options. As this forum shows we all have different opinions and ideas on what an ideal setup is. I'm just pushing the setup that I believe is ideal based on my experience in automotive lighting and human vision. While trying to provide the value of a well constructed light, good customer service, good runtime, solid accessories and some innovation.
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  33. #533
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    Velodonata- thatís a sweet setup with that X2. The size reminds me of when I had an Amoeba from Scar here on the forums. Actually, I had it on my TLD A2 like you do up front and ran a 2 cell mounted on top at the back. Not too heavy...
    I did try the Outbound Road on my Kali helmet briefly with the 4 cell and could tell if need to visit the chiropractor if I rode any distance like that lol. But, I run the pack in my SWAT bib pockets and tuck an extension cord under my shirt. Works well and isnít very heavy. I got the Kali helmet recently as it has a built in mount.


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  34. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by garrybunk View Post
    I'm sorry, but there's NO WAY that Bright Eyes light has the same beam pattern as a BT40S! The BT40S doesn't have a hotspot and is wide flood (actually a decent comparison to your light). I'm sure you're just confused.

    -Garry
    Thank you Garry...I was about to jump out of my shoes when he said the BEyes was like the BT40S but you beat me to the reprimand. I posted beam photos of the BT40's years ago so I'm sure there's some of my old photo's in one of the older threads. No way is the BT40S anything like that Brighteyes light. Not only was that B/eyes light terrible, it was so terrible that I don't think I would even use it as a back up.

    FWIW, this is the best beam shot photo I have of the BT40S ( below )

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  35. #535
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    I had the chance to ride the Trail light last weekend at the Summer Solstice 12/24 at Allatoona Creek Trails outside of Atlanta, Ga. It was a small field of about a dozen solo 12 and 24h riders (4 of us attempting the 24h race), amidst solo and team 3 and 6 hour racers. The course was forested, twisty, and rooty, with many dips and arroyos, on a hot and humid southern day. The roots started out slick in the morning, dried out and the clay had great grip throughout the day, then it rained in the evening, leaving the course slick and muddy through the night.

    I turned the lamp on just before dusk, as the looming rain clouds left the forested trail a bit too dark to comfortably see. I ran the light on its lowest setting for that half-lap until I got out of the woods through the pit area. I rode the next lap on med-low as night fell; the wide, even beam-pattern worked great on these twisty trails, exactly what I expected from this output setting (my go-to for ~6 hours of battery life). I rode the following lap on the low setting, and likewise didn't have any issues with seeing the details of the trails...but I felt more than familiar with what sections were leading blind, rooted or rocky by that point. Still, it was good to know that the lowest setting was adequate as I anticipate I'll need to extend battery life in some races (or poorly-planned trail rides). Later in the night I put a lap in on the medium setting. I liked this setting best of the 3 I tried and the spread of the light didn't leave me wanting...I've ridden more-technical trails with less light (also bar-mounted), so this will feel like a luxury when the terrain calls for it. I didn't ride a lap on the high setting because I was still trying to eke run time out of my battery and the output level just wasn't needed. I'll probably give it a go on a shorter local ride (~3 hour) where I won't need to worry about burning through a battery pack quickly.

    Possible complaints: the mount doesn't like the tapered section of my Mt. Zoom carbon bar. My number plate was tucked tightly under the mount of the light, and on 2 or 3 occasions when the fork compressed (bottomed out...I bled down the pressure lap after lap as the night went on to soften the ride), the front brake line would push the number plate further up and push the aim of the lamp upwards. Part of this was because I forgot to bring scissors to trim the number plate, as I have the same issue on my bar-mounted GPS; the other reason may have been that I didn't have the strap tightened enough, fearing some of the previously reported issue with the mounting strap breaking (I know it didn't apply to my bar-size, but I don't quite know how tight is too tight). I run a hard Hope universal mount on my other light (or a GoPro clamp-mount on my 35mm bar), so I'm used to the light not moving at all...but there's an obvious trade-off between fixing the light tight and breaking it in a crash, so for now I have no problem occasionally nudging the lamp with my thumb to reset the aim if needed.

    Overall, I'm very pleased. I love the beam patterns on both the Road and Trail lamps, and as a 100% bar-mounted light rider, it does the job better than my previous lamps.

  36. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by VegasSingleSpeed View Post
    Possible complaints: the mount doesn't like the tapered section of my Mt. Zoom carbon bar.... ~ ~ ~.... the other reason ( *for light moving ) may have been that I didn't have the strap tightened enough, fearing some of the previously reported issue with the mounting strap breaking (I know it didn't apply to my bar-size, but I don't quite know how tight is too tight).

    Overall, I'm very pleased. I love the beam patterns on both the Road and Trail lamps, and as a 100% bar-mounted light rider, it does the job better than my previous lamps.
    ( *added by me for clarification )

    Tapered handlebars can cause problems with almost all types of mounts. The more extreme the angle of the taper, the more they will tend to move. This might be even more of an issue with Carbon Fiber handlebars ( less surface friction than aluminum..?? ) Adding to that this is even more problematic when using lamps that have sculpted beam patterns. I noticed this when setting up the Raveman lamps I use on my tapered handlebars. If the mount is not perfectly level the cut-off beam pattern will also be angled. In order to even up the cut-off angle of the lamp I had to build up the outer edge of the mount using some very small pieces of electrical tape. I had to experiment with it a couple times before getting it right but when I got it dialed in it also helped the mount have a firmer hold on the handlebars. If you still have problems with the lamp moving you may need a shim that is better than the standard rubber shims supplied by most lamp setups. I highly recommend buying a roll of the Lizards skin friction tape ( sticky on one side, leather-like on the other. ) This stuff worked for me when nothing else would ( although my bars are all made of aluminum )

    Very nice write up. Nice to hear from someone who is using one of these lamps. I'm also happy to hear that it also works very well when on lower power levels. That's very important if you plan to do extended rides on a regular basis.

  37. #537
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    1 week(*) passed. Guys, could you make some nice, technical, detailed review of the road version? Perhaps in a separate thread. With taking it apart, with photos of the insides. And with beam wall shots of course. No HDR is fine, just different exposures. Lengthy HDR 3D-scenes comparisons with other lights can wait. (I can help by creating a new thread! )

    Good example of the insides (of another light) from a German forum(**).

    I think thermal design is interesting:
    ...Laird thermal transfer material that goes on both sides of the main LED board... (to me, non-specialist, no such material, the direct contact PCB->case, would be best... and "both sides"?). If the silicone lens goes all around, forming a sealing ring, then the mount scoop cools... what? Also, the solder-less assembly is interesting (to me, non-specialist, in case when there's no need for connector, just about any small soldered joint would be better than just about any high-quality connector). I very much wish to see photos of the insides.

    Please?!

    Also, Outbound asked for reviews, it would help them to sell more lights!

    (*) Disappoiting that mtbr shows only simplified "times", in terms of (several) hours, days, weeks, etc. Can't tell if it's 1 week or almost 2. Administration, could this wonderful simplicity be traditionally complexified please?
    (**) Thanks to angerdan@CPF for posting a link.

  38. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    I finally got a chance to get out on these lights for a real mtn. ride. Rode to a nearby trail that had a nice loop that I could do back to back to compare the road and trail versions of the OL lights. I also rode a bit of the tighter sections using the trail without the Gloworm X2 that I was using as a helmet light to see how it handled the trail solo. So here's what I think!

    The trail version is just not for me. Developed to ride in the woods/forests where Matt rides the extremely wide beam is mostly wasted on the more open desert trails I ride which values more throw IMO. Extra beam width also diminishes intensity but running the trail in the highest 2 settings would activate the thermal protection in the 105 degree ride temp last night (also the X2).

    Road version worked great on the roads, MUP's and trails I rode last night. Beam width is what I'm used to for a bar light and the smaller coverage area increased the intensity of the beam to the point where I ended up using the second to the lowest setting for pretty much everything. Even in this mode the road seemed much brighter than the trail which increased visibility plus the lower setting allowed the light to run cooler. Want to compare the road version to my Wiz20 next since that's currently my favorite road/MUP light. Should be interesting.
    Mole
    MRMOLE,

    Could you give an idea of how the OB Road edition compares to the Gloworm XS as far as throw is concerned? I'm on the hunt for something that has better illumination around 30-50 yards out. You are the only one I've observed on here so far that owns both of these lights, so I'm asking. Thanks.

  39. #539
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    I own both and the OL doesnt have near the throw of traditional lights. I own both as well as many of dual and tripple emitter lights. It's designed to be wide beam. Even a standard dual emitter light has more throw. But that's what makes this light good (at least for road), solid smooth coverage with some width to be useful instead of just a hot spot.

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  40. #540
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    Guys - I have quickly blasted through the posts since the release of these lights. I must confess that I have no idea as to whether purchasers are happy with the finished product. Is there a TL; DR summary of the post-purchase reactions?

  41. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    Guys - I have quickly blasted through the posts since the release of these lights. I must confess that I have no idea as to whether purchasers are happy with the finished product. Is there a TL; DR summary of the post-purchase reactions?
    As a guy who has this topic on auto-notification, I'll just put in what I've gotten as reactions, and what I designed it to do.

    If you are expecting a single light to be a replacement for a Lupine Betty 5000 or 7000 or whatever it is, you'll be quite disappointed. If you are wanting something that'll light up objects 150 yards away you'll be pretty disappointed. If you attack downhills hard at night on familiar trails, you'll probably want to combo up the trail light with either an existing light you already have on the helmet (or the road edition on the helmet) to get some extra throw where you are looking, and let the Trail fill in everything else to make a homogenous and much more comfortable ride.

    I'll have a "mucho grande pack" available in a few days (waiting on gopro helmet adapters) that will have the Road light, Trail light, two batteries, two wall chargers, extension cord, gopro mount adapter, and a gopro helmet mount in case you already don't have one. That will retail for $425, and that one I believe will really have people thrilled. Matching color temperature, complete fill, the throw that people want, and a complete system designed to work together in one package. Then you can use the road on your road bike and still get those benefits as well!

    Overall out of the 230+ lights I have delivered, only have had a few people mention that they were expecting a bit more, which might have been my fault through optimistic simulation data and a little excitement on my end. Otherwise has been nothing but positive feedback.

    I'll gladly let others chime in.
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  42. #542
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    Sounds like an overwhelmingly positive success. I was following this thread and have a very good sense of the amount of effort, enthusiasm and hope you had. Congratulations! Hopefully it's not too anti-climatic at this point for you.

  43. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    Sounds like an overwhelmingly positive success. I was following this thread and have a very good sense of the amount of effort, enthusiasm and hope you had. Congratulations! Hopefully it's not too anti-climatic at this point for you.
    Thanks! There are things we can and are improving. The strap being one of them. Right now my real worry/concern is being able to sell another 200 of these so that we can make this a viable business, pay off production startup costs, start production on another light and so I can leave my comfortable full-time job and focus 100% on this.

    Turns out this part is wayyyyy harder than all the engineering and design work I put into this.
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  44. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sisyphean View Post
    MRMOLE,

    Could you give an idea of how the OB Road edition compares to the Gloworm XS as far as throw is concerned? I'm on the hunt for something that has better illumination around 30-50 yards out. You are the only one I've observed on here so far that owns both of these lights, so I'm asking. Thanks.
    RAKC's comments (below) pretty much cover what I think about this.

    I own both and the OL doesnt have near the throw of traditional lights. I own both as well as many of dual and tripple emitter lights. It's designed to be wide beam. Even a standard dual emitter light has more throw. But that's what makes this light good (at least for road), solid smooth coverage with some width to be useful instead of just a hot spot.
    The OL road version will definitely work well at the distance range you mentioned but the XS will be brighter/more intense (with a narrower beam) and still have a good deal more throw in reserve. Those are characteristics I've noticed but opinions on which is better will have to wait till I get more time on the OL lights.
    Mole

  45. #545
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    Got a good solid ride in tonight, throw is good for my riding (max out around 30mph). Big group full moon ride. Well ride to the other side of town to the bar, have a couple drinks and somethi g to eat then ride back under the full moon. Width is perfect as well.

    One thing I did notice is mid power setting, only about 80F and at decent speeds (~15mph) I reached down to adjust aim slightly and I could feel the heat through my glove. Didnt expect it to be that warm with the speeds I was riding. Not HOT but warm enough I noticed.

    Oddly enough the artifacts in the beam pattern seemed to dimish as the light was used. Maybe my eyes compensated but the center of the beam was more clean by the end of the ride (artifacts still noticeable out the sides but that was it).

    Final notice, nice to have that much light and not be pissing ppl off. Especially when the path on riverfront is along a road and lined with picnic tables and benches. So very popular hang out for younger crowds and busy road (for here).

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  46. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    ...mid power setting... Not HOT but warm enough I noticed.
    Thousand apologies, but is it important? I'd say it is great that the light is warm! Because it means it dissipates heat. If it's cold at mid-power (~10W), then it keeps energy inside, and something will soon fry in there.

    Important issue IMveryHO, is how the heat dissipation is implemented. Whether OL has done everything they could? If yes, then just accept this much warmth/heat (as some laws of nature) and just keep it in mind. If not, then it brings other questions...

    Could you please... hm...

    PS.
    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    The OL road version will definitely work well ... but the XS will be brighter/more intense (with a narrower beam)...
    Quote Originally Posted by RAKC Ind View Post
    OL doesnt have near the throw of traditional lights.
    Beamshots!

  47. #547
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    Not good or bad. Yes heat being trapped can be bad. However trapped heat is only a problem on cheap lights.

    A light can be at full power and be cold, often a problem during winter months (effects run time as batteries are cold too).

    How warm a light is during use can be very dependant on several factors. How much heat the system generates and how well the case dissipates that heat are the 2 main ones. The more a case dissipates the heat and the more efficient the electronics are operating the lower the case temperature.

    Air temperature and flow also play a major part. The more air flow and lower the temperature the cooler the light will run.

    I simply felt it worth mentioning that I was able to feel the warmth of the light through my gloves. Something I would expect running at max output or when I'm riding trails at lower speeds especially in higher temps. Nothing wrong with the light, simply that it runs a bit warmer to the touch than I was expecting for its size and lumen output.



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    Last edited by RAKC Ind; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:27 AM.
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  48. #548
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    I just got road focal series today. Havent had time to try it yet but the product finish quality is excellent, starting from the carrying case with Outbound Lighting logo and a nice gripy rubber around the handle. Zippers open up smoothly and reveals the light, battery pack and a charger.

    I must say i realy like the design of the light head, has some agressive look with the cooling fins at top and bottom. Love the mathe look of the magnesium housing. The power connector is fortified at the exit point from the housing. Mode button on top has a good feel and action to it with a clear click.
    I used the light in a dark room against a wall and you can realy see a cutoff line. Seems the light is brightest just below the cutoff which i would say maximizes the throw while still not blinding oncoming trafic. This is exactly what i wanted for my road trips. Cant w8 to try it in ride. First impressions are great.

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  49. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkrmike View Post
    Guys - I have quickly blasted through the posts since the release of these lights. I must confess that I have no idea as to whether purchasers are happy with the finished product. Is there a TL; DR summary of the post-purchase reactions?
    We can all take a bit of credit for this, and for my part I apologize. I did comment above when I had only played with the light in hand, not yet ridden with it. A couple of nights ago I went out after dark on the my road bike with the road edition. It was a full moon (not ideal for testing the reach of a light because ambient light is so high) but still enough to do a side by side comparison with our only other bike light, the Magicshine MJ-808. Unfortunately this particular light is a poor comparison as it's in a completely different price AND output range. I think I paid about $80-90/ea. for my geomangear MJ-808's and at the time I thought they were absolutely great. The OL light, while bar mounted, seems like it's 1000% better than the MS light. I rode side by side with my wife, who was using the MS, and although I could see her hot spot within the flood of the OL light, when I would block the OL light, it was jarring to see the difference. She was effectively getting no benefit from having the MS light on, and we could have easily done the entire ride with only the one light.

    So to answer your questions, I'm very impressed and happy with this light so far. What I can't do, however, is compare this light to it's targeted competition, the L&M Seca series lights. I'm looking forward to seeing a side by side comparison of them, but even this light was stretching my budget, so the pricier Seca 2500 is well outside what I can spend on a bike light.

    The other reason I think the reviews have been slow is that it's not night riding season for most, so many people who have these lights haven't had a chance to use them on the road or trail yet. That will change when the days get shorter and I'm sure and the feedback will increase.

    The other thing that has perhaps distracted from the clear positivity is that Matt specifically asked for constructive criticism. So when little things are noticed, we have felt compelled to mention them here.

    What ultimately matters is how this light stacks up against lights that cost $250+.
    If it can compete with lights in it's price category, and provide longer battery life due to the reflector design and the efficient use of energy, then people will be happy.

    I'm hoping to ride again tonight, this time with the OL light on my wife's bike (as it technically hers) and I will try to continue offering feedback.

    -Jeremy

  50. #550
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    Very happy with my road version. Not for everyone seeing as it uses a separate battery pack but exactly what I was looking for personally. Road worthy beam (instead of driver rage inducing lights made by all but a couple other brands like Ravemen) and enough power for high speeds in rural areas I live and ride in.

    For road use though, prefer more round beam lights for trail use, too wide for my tastes in the wood.

    Many of us go into detail with our experience because something in those details may be important to others.

    A simple "X stars" I'm happy with it gives so little information and every riders preferences are different.

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  51. #551
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    RAKC's comments (below) pretty much cover what I think about this.



    The OL road version will definitely work well at the distance range you mentioned but the XS will be brighter/more intense (with a narrower beam) and still have a good deal more throw in reserve. Those are characteristics I've noticed but opinions on which is better will have to wait till I get more time on the OL lights.
    Mole
    Thanks for the responses guys..

    I already have the Outbound Road, and I have a Gloworm XS ordered that will arrive on Monday. I intend on making a comparison for my (niche but growing) use case and then posting here.

    I am not the typical MTBR patron however. But I have lurked on these forums for about 7 years. Never had a reason to post until now, when this light appeared on the scene, and I had questions, as this seems to be where the party is at.

    Preliminary evaluation with the OB light has been very positive. I'll post more in a few days with a lot more detail.

    EDIT: Conflated Gloworm and ITUO model numbers.
    Last edited by Sisyphean; 2 Weeks Ago at 05:41 PM.

  52. #552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sisyphean View Post
    Thanks for the responses guys..

    I already have the Outbound Road, and I have a Gloworm XP3 ordered that will arrive on Monday. I intend on making a comparison for my (niche but growing) use case and then posting here.

    I am not the typical MTBR patron however. But I have lurked on these forums for about 7 years. Never had a reason to post until now, when this light appeared on the scene, and I had questions, as this seems to be where the party is at.

    Preliminary evaluation with the OB light has been very positive. I'll post more in a few days with a lot more detail.
    Are you planning on using the Gloworm XS as a helmet light in combo with the OL Road on the bars or just comparing the two on a overall basis? Either way looking forward to hear what you think. Emitter tint of the Gloworm cool white versions are a very good match for the OL lights so they work well together IMO. Both are very nice lights!
    Mole

  53. #553
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBucan View Post
    ....I used the light in a dark room against a wall and you can realy see a cutoff line. Seems the light is brightest just below the cutoff which i would say maximizes the throw while still not blinding oncoming trafic. This is exactly what i wanted for my road trips. Cant w8 to try it in ride. First impressions are great.

    Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk
    I have to completely agree with what you just said. Looking at the wall shot; the hot spot on the beam pattern is in the perfect spot. This should give the user maximum visibility at the very far end of the beam pattern. This of course was by design and is what makes this lamp unique.

    This said I'm not convinced yet that owning one of these would be the "end to end all " for road use. If you ride in wooded or rural areas there are just times when you need something for that extra punch. That is why I still carry the Gemini Duo on my bars to supplement the Raveman CR-900 I use ( < that also uses a cut-off beam pattern ). The Duo though I only use for high beam / momentary use. I have no doubt the OB lamp will have better overall throw than the Raveman type lamps but for those times when I need to see 200 feet plus, the big question; Is the OB going to be enough. Wish like hell the OB included a remote. If it did I might buy one. ( all of my primary lamps utilize some type of remote ).
    Last edited by Cat-man-do; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:19 AM. Reason: editing feet for yards..

  54. #554
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    The LED PCB is made of what? Regular FR4, aluminum, copper? (another interesting thermal thing in addition to the pink squares, scoop, and the connectors)

    PS. It should be very easy to disassemble the light (thanks to OL's connector-based solder-less design)

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    Ok went for a night ride at the local road last night and it was also my first time using spd system. Man what a difference, i was missing so much. It was such a pleasure pedaling without need to think of my feet on the pedals and cruising with the full light on but not blinding oncoming trafic. Width of the beam is enough to cover full width of the road and have a little extra. I cant exactly say how long the throw is, but i was enlighting road signs well ahead of time and never felt i was lacking visibility. Now, i dont have a gopro camera so i am unable to post any videos. To be clear, it cant enlighten 200 yards upfront but i doubt there is any bike light in this price range and power that can, and lets be real, you can get only so much from 1500 lumens.
    Now, i am also a light junkie and would love to have a light that can light up a kilometer away(woaha) but thats for another time and a different light.
    All in all, totaly satisfied and certain it will serve me a long time.
    And btw, for now i didnt had problems with the mount, but i mount my light on the fat part of bars closer to centre. Time will tell, but Matt said he is working on the issue anyway.

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  56. #556
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBucan View Post
    ....To be clear, it cant enlighten 200 yards upfront but i doubt there is any bike light in this price range and power that can, and lets be real, you can get only so much from 1500 lumens.
    Now, i am also a light junkie and would love to have a light that can light up a kilometer away(woaha) but thats for another time and a different light.
    All in all, totaly satisfied and certain it will serve me a long time.
    And btw, for now i didnt had problems with the mount, but i mount my light on the fat part of bars closer to centre. Time will tell, but Matt said he is working on the issue anyway.

    Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk
    Oh heck. Sorry about that. I was thinking "feet" and accidentally posted yards, my bad. When I turn on my Duo it will give me at least 200 ft. or more of usable throw when used on a good road. ( I'll go back and edit that last post ) My Raveman ( CR-900 ) throws about *150 ft. on high on a good flat, dry asphalt road (*although that is just an visual estimate on my part ). Still like I said before, sometimes you need more if you are really moving. That is why I keep the Duo on stand-by.

    Anyway, do you have an estimate on just how far the OB actual reaches when on high?

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    Just came from a night ride and this time i have chosen a totaly unlit road to see how long the throw is without any interference.
    I somehow measured it by counting my steps of aproximate 1m length. Anyway i came to a number of around 58-60 meters. Now to explain myself. The visibility is best starting from front of the bike(obviously duh) and going to first 30, 40 meters. 60 meters is the distance i find that is still iluminated in a meaningful way, past that it only iluminates large objects, so youl see a car, a house, a ditch etc but not in much detail. This is my experience, take it with a grain of salt, vision can differ from person to person.


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  58. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBucan View Post
    Just came from a night ride and this time i have chosen a totaly unlit road to see how long the throw is without any interference.
    I somehow measured it by counting my steps of aproximate 1m length. Anyway i came to a number of around 58-60 meters. Now to explain myself. The visibility is best starting from front of the bike(obviously duh) and going to first 30, 40 meters. 60 meters is the distance i find that is still iluminated in a meaningful way, past that it only iluminates large objects, so youl see a car, a house, a ditch etc but not in much detail. This is my experience, take it with a grain of salt, vision can differ from person to person.


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    Thanks, that sounds very much like I expected. Close enough to 200ft to satisfy me. If I do a road ride tonight I'll try to do a walk-off measurement of what my CR-900 does. My visual estimate of 150 ft. might have been a tad too high.

  59. #559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Thanks, that sounds very much like I expected. Close enough to 200ft to satisfy me. If I do a road ride tonight I'll try to do a walk-off measurement of what my CR-900 does. My visual estimate of 150 ft. might have been a tad too high.
    Continued....Seems I was right. My initial estimate was wrong and the CR-900 throw is more like 108-110 ft. ( ~33 meters ) Could be I had the light aimed somewhat high when I first got it. Like what you said about the OB, you can see farther but only dimly and only objects that are larger. One hundred and ten feet though is the usable range. That said the OB of course has much more power than a lamp like the CR-900 as well as a more refined beam pattern. Of course if I wanted more throw from a Raveman I could always op for one of their dual emitter lamps which obviously can throw much farther....hmmm....just had a thought...with the high humidity I was dealing with it could be that had an effect on throw. I might have to check it again when the heat wave passes.

    The ride I did tonight took a lot out of me. Temps dropped down to the mid 70'sįF but what I failed to consider was the very high humidity. Humidity was near 91%. Even at those temps, once you start to get warm your body can't cool as well because the sweat on your skin won't evaporate fast enough to keep you from over-heating. I think this was the first time I ever had that happen when riding in the mid 70's. Glad I didn't take a MTB ride because that would of really did me in.

  60. #560
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    I believe Raveman dual emiter lights only use half the power in cutoff low beam mode, for max throw you need to use the mountain mode which activates both sides, using both low and high beam which is blinding so cant be used constantly.

    I do understand your need for a 2nd light when cycling hard, watched a video off Cr900 and the beam does look narrower and shorter then i would like to have a peace of mind. Ofc video is not exact representation of any lights posibilities. Tbh in the video Matt made showcasing road version, that beam looks narrower and shorter to me then what i experienced.

    Picture is from my phones camera, it doesnt picks up full throw, i recon bellow a certain lux lvl it just shows black. But you can get a glimpse of the width you get, it covers full road with some extra to lit the side road scenery and i was on the right side of road. Helps a lot when turning also.


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    I donít know anything about these batteries, but is it possible to get a quicker charge on them? The included charger is what, 1.2A? Takes forever to charge that 6400mAh pack.

  62. #562
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    I donít know anything about these batteries, but is it possible to get a quicker charge on them? The included charger is what, 1.2A? Takes forever to charge that 6400mAh pack.
    Google for everything. Don't know what type of connector the OB is using but likely one of these will work.

    MrBucan

    I believe Raveman dual emiter lights only use half the power in cutoff low beam mode, for max throw you need to use the mountain mode which activates both sides, using both low and high beam which is blinding so cant be used constantly.
    True, but if there is no on coming traffic you are pretty much good to go. This is one of the reasons why I wish the Raveman PR-1200 included a two button remote so you could more easily toggle between low and high beams. You can however activate the second ( high beam ) emitter by holding down the remote button and it will activate the second emitter as long as you keep holding down the button. Works pretty well in actual use as long as you don't need high beam for more than a few seconds. Otherwise if you need the high to stay on you need to reach over to the large button on the lamp and activate the dual emitter function that way. I don't use the PR-1200 for road use but only because I have limited room on my handlebars ( the mount for my stem mounted phone holder tends to get in the way ). The CR-900 on the other hand takes up less space.

  63. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    I donít know anything about these batteries, but is it possible to get a quicker charge on them? The included charger is what, 1.2A? Takes forever to charge that 6400mAh pack.
    You can use a slightly higher amperage charger (2A for example) and that'll reduce the charge time by about an hour or two. We had an option for a 2A charger, but the cost was almost 4x more than the 1.2A, figured most people wouldn't even tell that it charged 33% faster, and would have rather saved some money on the overall cost.

    ---------------------------

    LED PCB is made of aluminum with laird thermal transfer material to improve the contact to the die cast housing on both top and bottom of the board.
    Outbound Lighting!
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  64. #564
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    "Just" received my lamp! Doesn't get even almost dark here until midnight but think I really need to take a test ride before bedtime. Comparing road, trail and magic shine mj872. Did an comparison in the basement, outbound has a lot warmer colour and i think the whole light is about as bright as mj-872 "hotspot" even if mj-872 has i much wider (and a little dimmer) hotspot than some other cheap lamp I have. It's also much warmer light than the other (it's not a Magic shine but it is more or less an mj-808).

    The Iutbound lamp looks in my very short tests very steady with no low frequency PWM at the Magic shine has, both at power indicators and light output when not at max power, very disturbing running in snowfall or fallen leaves.

    To give some quick feedback I like the switch of the magic shine by turn on immediately at switch, but then the daymode should be some strange in this case.. other than that I would like a little little shorter time to turn on and off, I need to press little longer than what I think is initiative, 100ms? As it is now it's much longer than what can possibly be done by mistake. Not a problem at all but one very simple change which would make me more satisfied.

    Sounds good about the charger. I have one for the magic shine battery pack, think I'll keep one at the office and one home then. I like the long charging time, it gives less heat and less risk of an fire. it's also better for the battery. I'll manly use the lights for commuting and have all day at office or all night to charging it up.

    9.15 pm just a little more one hour to sunset... love the long days, and doesn't miss the sunsets at 3 pm at all right now... but should be interesting to compare today!

  65. #565
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    Last night's ride included my OL road, Wiz20, 2015 GW X2 and my camera. I messed up the the X2's shot a bit but if aimed properly its hot spot would have lit up the trees (approx. 120' away) in the center of the pics the brightest. Other than that these shots are actually a pretty good example of what I see with these lights. X2 has 2 spot optics, Wiz20 has 2 wide-spot optics for reference.
    Mole

    OL Road
    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----011.jpg

    GW X2 (2015)
    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----012.jpg

    Wiz20
    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----013.jpg

  66. #566
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    Speaking of Gloworm X2 comparisons, here is the two side by side on the same stretch of trail:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTtc9PRFJHo

    Can see how for real fast and real open downhill you might want something with more punch than just a single Trail edition if trying to get KOM on Strava (that's where the Downhill package comes into play). However the Trail lets you see deep into corners on twisty singletrack that a spot-like pattern will never let you do without an additional helmet light.

    The camera obviously isn't picking up the extra residual light of the Trail edition either since there is a lot of low level light that is designed to spread out even further. There wasn't much additional light being thrown to the sides on the Gloworm.

    -----------------------------------------------

    We attended our first race last weekend for the Sunset Sizzler, and had 17 people demo out the lights. Four people bought them on the spot after trying it out which was great. The guy who placed second on the Marathon (nearly 3 hours of riding) bought it right after he finished, saying the light helped him place so high and loved the beam pattern! Always great to hear how the lighting can make the riding more comfortable so the mind can focus on just winning.

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----outboundrace.jpg
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  67. #567
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    Alternate Bar Mounting


    While I've had no issues with the stock strap mount on my mtn bikes I struggled with the mount on my road bike because of how the bars were wrapped and interference with the cables/lines. Provided Gopro mount and a Gloworm QR bar mount provided a clean solution.
    Mole

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----001.jpg

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----003.jpg

    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----005.jpg

  68. #568
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    Speaking of Gloworm X2 comparisons, here is the two side by side on the same stretch of trail:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTtc9PRFJHo

    Can see how for real fast and real open downhill you might want something with more punch than just a single Trail edition if trying to get KOM on Strava (that's where the Downhill package comes into play). However the Trail lets you see deep into corners on twisty singletrack that a spot-like pattern will never let you do without an additional helmet light.

    The camera obviously isn't picking up the extra residual light of the Trail edition either since there is a lot of low level light that is designed to spread out even further. There wasn't much additional light being thrown to the sides on the Gloworm.
    Yup, as delivered the Gloworm X2 lacks adequate beam width used as a bar light for my taste. Gloworm does offer wide angle optics that will widen the beam considerably but not to the extent of your trail model. Standard optic configuration for the X2 is more helmet friendly and has the narrowest beam of any of the dual xm-l emitter Piko style lights I've tried.
    Mole

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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    Are you planning on using the Gloworm XS as a helmet light in combo with the OL Road on the bars or just comparing the two on a overall basis? Either way looking forward to hear what you think. Emitter tint of the Gloworm cool white versions are a very good match for the OL lights so they work well together IMO. Both are very nice lights!
    Mole
    I run a bar light only. I do have an Olight S1r on my helmet that gives me 60 lumens for 4.5 hours on one charge. That's just for looking around in the ditches to the immediate sides and to have something to see with when I'm off the bike. The Olight is only 55 grams battery and all. I found that typical helmet lights over 100 grams start to strain my neck after an hour or so. But I'm also in a road position for long periods and I had a severe neck injury when I was younger. So my situation isn't typical.
    Last edited by Sisyphean; 2 Weeks Ago at 09:37 AM.

  70. #570
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    I plan to post a review regarding my road version soon, though I'd like to do a side-by-side comparison with my existing light first. I haven't looked (so excuse me if this is posted somewhere obvious) but is there any guidance on aiming the road version?

    In the meantime I'm experiencing the same issue as MRMOLE. I'd be interested to see what other have come up with in terms of mounting options.

    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    While I've had no issues with the stock strap mount on my mtn bikes I struggled with the mount on my road bike because of how the bars were wrapped and interference with the cables/lines. Provided Gopro mount and a Gloworm QR bar mount provided a clean solution.
    Mole
    Negative rep, please.

  71. #571
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    So I spent the last week evaluating the Outbound Road edition vs the 2018 Gloworm XS wireless. In the end I chose the Gloworm for myself and my son demanded that he keep the Outbound light for himself. So we ended up keeping both lights.

    For myself, the Gloworm worked better because of the type of riding that I do. I'm a former triathlete turned endurance "gravel" racer. About half of my riding is on gravel roads and the other half on dark and broken up bituminous "asphalt" country roads at 20-25mph. The challenge for me was to be able to see pot holes, broken up shoulders, dips, etc on bad blacktop in the pitch dark at speed. The gravel sections have never been an issue because they are much lighter. But the really black country pavement has been problematic for me. The bottom line is that I desire more throw and raw lumens further ahead on these sections.

    I will say that for most riders on the road, the Outbound light is superior. The quality of the illumination is amazing. There is something about it where everything is lit up with what I would describe as a very clean, crisp and wide view. The beam is so wide and evenly lit that when moving the bars (like in a sprint) it doesn't even affect the lighting ahead of you. It always looks the same. Smooth and even... unlike with most lights where there is a distracting hot spot whipping back and forth across the road. It also feels brighter overall because there is less of a tunnel effect going on. You can see the sides of the road more clearly than with other lights. It is pretty confidence inspiring.

    For commuters, or anyone riding in traffic, the Outbound is the obvious choice. We did a "glare test" where my wife was driving the car while I rode past several times to see how well the cutoff worked. I had to kick the Gloworm all the way down to 400 lumens to get the glare down to the level of the Outbound light when on it's highest setting. For myself, this is workable with the remote button on the Gloworm. With the Outbound Road, there is no need to even switch to a lower mode when cars approach.

    I am very happy with both lights.

    Here are some beam pics I painstakingly took of the Outbound Road, Gloworm XS and our 2018 Honda Civic headlights so you can tell what to expect. These pics are pretty close to what you will see with the naked eye. Probably 10 to 20% brighter with your eyes. The Outbound pic also doesn't do it justice on the sides because the camera doesn't have as wide a field of view as your eyes. To the immediate left and right of that light, the road is better lit up than what the pic appears to represent.

    For reference the power pole on the right in the distance is 280 feet from the speed limit sign. Or a little over 300 feet from the camera. The car is about 25 feet further forward.

    Outbound Road Edition:
    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----outbound.jpg

    2018 Gloworm XS (neutral white):
    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----gloworm.jpg

    2018 Honda Civic (low beam, both headlights):
    Outbound Lighting Focal Series  ---- Discussion -----civic.jpg

  72. #572
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    Love the car headlight shot! While weíre scrutinizing design differences of bicycle lights they still blow the doors off of car headlights lol.

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    It's interesting ( (c) me )... From these shots it looks like the OL-road isn't concentrating much light right below the cutoff, to form a very bright thin line (as I think automotive should). If it is so, why it wasn't done for OL-road, while Honda (looks like) did it?

    People wrote previously that the illumination is very bright. Would it then be better, to rearrange the pattern, move some light from the "majority" of pattern (e.g., the near field looks very bright) to that (desirable) thin bright line? (this is essentially the same as what MRMOLE and RAKC Ind wrote, that OL-road doesn't have the throw of a lens-based light).

  74. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by abvgdee View Post
    It's interesting ( (c) me )... From these shots it looks like the OL-road isn't concentrating much light right below the cutoff, to form a very bright thin line (as I think automotive should). If it is so, why it wasn't done for OL-road, while Honda (looks like) did it?

    People wrote previously that the illumination is very bright. Would it then be better, to rearrange the pattern, move some light from the "majority" of pattern (e.g., the near field looks very bright) to that (desirable) thin bright line? (this is essentially the same as what MRMOLE and RAKC Ind wrote, that OL-road doesn't have the throw of a lens-based light).
    Throw has nothing to do with reflector, lens or optic. It's all about designed beam pattern.

    The OL light does have more light concentrated near the cut off. But not all of it. It's meant to provide wide coverage. Same is done with other lights by changing optics. Loose throw to spread the light wider. That's the point of wide angle or flood optics/lens. Sacrifice throw to spread the coverage.

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    Ya @abvgdee I'm seeing something similar here **EDIT at a distance of 25 feet**. According to my light meter, the light has a well defined upper bound but illuminance increases gradually below the cutoff line to the peak illuminance (14 foot-candles) about 25 inches below the cutoff. But I think this doesn't seem to be too problematic in practice, this light does provide good illumination in a very wide beam, but ya I guess it won't illuminate the road evenly to the same distance an auto light would.

    On the recumbent, I initially felt the beam didn't throw far enough, but after making some adjustments to the cable routing to improve my forward vision (I have an M5 M-Racer--handlebars are little bit below my eye level so that interferes with how close I can see the road), I think it does work well. Again really like the very wide beam, being able to see into low speed turns at intersections is super nice unlike other narrower cutoff beams.

    However the low mounting (29.5 inch beam height) does make the light very bright close to the bike. It is 40 foot candles 11 feet away. But doesn't effect my night vision too badly since the handlebars/legs block my vision that close to the bike anyways. Ideally this bike (and fork crown mounting) should have a reflector designed for the lower mounting height

    I think though this is probably best overall of the cutoff beam headlights I've used:

    pros: light head is lightweight and well sealed, can attach a rigid mount to the light head, battery is very high capacity, the beam is very wide, total light output is excellent

    cons: cutoff on beam is a bit gradual, foreground too bright with a lower mounting point

    EDIT2: I have the road edition
    EDIT3: reworded last independent clause of 1st paragraph
    EDIT4: added high light output to pros
    Last edited by QCrr; 2 Weeks Ago at 05:17 PM.

  76. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by abvgdee View Post
    It's interesting ( (c) me )... From these shots it looks like the OL-road isn't concentrating much light right below the cutoff, to form a very bright thin line (as I think automotive should). If it is so, why it wasn't done for OL-road, while Honda (looks like) did it?


    People wrote previously that the illumination is very bright. Would it then be better, to rearrange the pattern, move some light from the "majority" of pattern (e.g., the near field looks very bright) to that (desirable) thin bright line? (this is essentially the same as what MRMOLE and RAKC Ind wrote, that OL-road doesn't have the throw of a lens-based light).
    Let's not forget that the Honda pic is two 55-watt H11 halogens. The combined output would be approximately 2500 lumens (same as the Gloworm XS). It is also very warm. I would guess about 4000K. The beam pattern is really tight. It's good for what it's designed for... seeing far down the road at 55mph. But I wouldn't want those lights on my bike. That flat rectangular beam twisting, turning and bouncing around on a handlebar would be terrible.

    They also don't put much light onto the road until about 25 feet out, and pretty much nothing to the immediate sides.

    Remember, this is on dark pavement in pitch black conditions. A worst case scenario.

    The Outbound Road Edition illuminates everything you need to see out to about 100-150 feet, with the added benefit of unparalleled side illumination. Also, the clarity of the light is amazing. It really brings out contrast in seeing objects and features of the road surface. Curiously, you can kick it down to the medium setting and can still see about 80-90% of what you can see while on high. This is great for battery life. And no need to fiddle with settings when cars approach.

    The Gloworm XS (tested on high, 2500 lumens) of course has more throw, but less light up close and to the sides. Also shorter run time. I had to get a second battery pack because many of my rides are over two hours. So I'm out $450 on that setup. It also blinds the hell out of drivers if you don't kick it down to a very low setting when they approach.

    I think the next evolution for Outbound road lighting would be a dual-emitter with a high and low beam. If it were to add a tight spot further out, combined with it's incredible near view illumination, it would be the ultimate.

    Supernova has done something similar with their M99 Pro. But their hammer shaped beam pattern is all goofy, and that lighthead is over $500 and you'd have to rig up your own custom battery pack and then pray it all works.

    That said, the Outbound is very good already for most riders. On clean roads, dirt or gravel, it's plenty. Just look at MRMOLE's example pic on the dirt. You can't hardly ask for better illumination than that.

    EDIT: Replied to wrong post
    Last edited by Sisyphean; 2 Weeks Ago at 09:05 PM.

  77. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sisyphean View Post
    Let's not forget that the Honda pic is two 55-watt H11 halogens. The combined output would be approximately 2500 lumens (same as the Gloworm XS)....

    ....I think the next evolution for Outbound road lighting would be a dual-emitter with a high and low beam. If it were to add a tight spot further out, combined with it's incredible near view illumination, it would be the ultimate.
    While the halogen bulb rating you give is correct you need to consider that most car electrical systems output more than 12 volt. ( 13.2 volts would not be unusual coming out of the alternator ). That means those 12 volt bulbs are being over-volted. My guess is that this is going to give you another 1K lumen.

    I don't think OB is going to provide a High/low beam bike light. Making an all-in-one high/low would no doubt require a much bigger size lamp head. Not really sure how most people wanting a lamp for their bike would respond to that. If I was a racer I'd put the OB on the bars and something like a Gloworm X2 or Gemini Duo on the lid ( both have wireless remotes ) and use that as your high beam ( when needed ). I actually use a Duo on the bars to supplement my Raveman CR-900's cut-off beam pattern. Duo has some outstanding throw if setup with dual spots. Even going down a hill at 35 mph I don't think I can outrun the throw of the Duo with dual spots. Added plus if helmet mounted; If a car comes along while you have it on just point the lamp off to the side of the road for a moment.

  78. #578
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    Quote Originally Posted by QCrr View Post
    ...the light has a well defined upper bound...
    Let's wait for the pro of course. I'd just note in the meanwhile, that the angle between the upper bound and the hotspot is approx. 1/12*180/pi = 4.7 degrees. This is approx, but still considerably more than the 3.4 required for StVZO (if it's really 4.7, then my old Philips Saferide sends OL-road his regards, from 2010). Is it the other, side effect of the great blending-smudging lens?

    Quote Originally Posted by QCrr View Post
    It is also very warm.
    A warmer color may be another thing to prefer over extra-bright illumination.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sisyphean View Post
    Let's not forget that the Honda pic is two 55-watt H11 halogens.
    I am... an amateur, excuse me, so it was a surpise for me to learn that this "old" technology is being currently installed on newest cars... Confused...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sisyphean View Post
    But I wouldn't want those lights on my bike. That flat rectangular beam twisting, turning and bouncing...
    Not arguing, just raising questions. (like why Honda did squeeze all light to a line, with old tech, and OL didn't (?) with new tech)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sisyphean View Post
    Outbound is very good already for most riders. ... You can't hardly ask for better illumination than that.
    Oh, I'm very picky. Give me some real data (proper wall shot measurements), and I will ask for better illumination! (unfortunately, real data is never available; from any manufacturer, OL no exception here).

    There were "techy bits" and "nerdy bits" on the OL web site. (pretty useless, IMO: pseudo-engineering, sort of advertizing). I don't see them anymore. Gone? I'd say those bits would be great if developed (real data added, like HDR wall shot with angles grid). Instead I see the appeal to pro-riders (as opposed to amateurs), which is also great... but...

  79. #579
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    I don't think OB is going to provide a High/low beam bike light. Making an all-in-one high/low would no doubt require a much bigger size lamp head.
    I am no optical expert at all, but may be it depends on how good you do it?

    May be stupid idea, but why not just add an extra LED ahead of the main one? I'm sure such upper pattern won't compare with the true trail pattern, but it may still be ok as DRL, as a signal, or for a quick occasional offroad part. Could be great (and cheap) feature, IMO.

    About the full-fledged (and larger in size lighthead) dual-pattern (reply to your post, so you may remember):
    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    It's definitely in the future planning though! I'd absolutely love to have a "do everything" kind of light...
    It is great when people discuss and request features. That's what could push OL to make next light better. Otherwise we'll see bluetooth for smartphone integration, remote (easy to DIY), firmware upgrades, etc... with old optics (OL mentioned the tooling costs quite a few times). More requests - more chances we'll see it!

  80. #580
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    I will say since I know OB personally, even with my knowledge of lighting systems and as much as I geek over it, keeping pace in a convo with him when we start geeking out over lights is tough. Hard to keep up with an optical engineer in the LED lighting industry.

    And the info they had on the website was not what you think. It was simplifying the technical details to make sense to most who have no desire to try to learn and understand in depth technical engineering side of things.

    I dont fully understand the criticism though. Your strict about only buying low budget lights (which none will have this level of engineering and design involved) and have said your understanding of these matters is lacking. Compared to OB mine is lacking as well.

    New design products are meant to fill a void, and that's what this light does, especially for something that's road friendly and has solid output. This process costs and most dont care about the in depth tech details. Few do and companies wont release proprietary specs so have to try for yourself before making a real judgement on something.

    But want something that is above and beyond you have to pay for it. Or have to suffer with cheap imported stuff. Seeing how things work is always best done first hand.

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  81. #581
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    Quote Originally Posted by abvgdee View Post
    I am no optical expert at all, but may be it depends on how good you do it?

    May be stupid idea, but why not just add an extra LED ahead of the main one? I'm sure such upper pattern won't compare with the true trail pattern, but it may still be ok as DRL, as a signal, or for a quick occasional offroad part. Could be great (and cheap) feature, IMO.

    About the full-fledged (and larger in size lighthead) dual-pattern (reply to your post, so you may remember):


    It is great when people discuss and request features. That's what could push OL to make next light better. Otherwise we'll see bluetooth for smartphone integration, remote (easy to DIY), firmware upgrades, etc... with old optics (OL mentioned the tooling costs quite a few times). More requests - more chances we'll see it!
    ( Sorry, I wrote this earlier in the day and forgot to post it )

    No it's not a stupid idea, just one that may be very hard to implement and still be marketable. Outbound did say he'd liked the idea of an all-in-one lamp so if he thinks he can do it by all means, who am I to stand in the way.

    In the mean time if Raveman were to incorporate a two button remote ( has single button remote at this time ) that would give the PR-1200 series lamp a true easy access high beam button, I would be on one of those real quick. Even better if they would do this with something using an external battery. That way they could give you something like a 3-up with the center LED using the cut-off lens, the outer LED's being the high beams with the finishing touch of being able to add more output power and run time to the user.

    In the mean time I can do this just by using two lamps. For me this is not a problem although obviously it would be nicer if I only had to mount one lamp.

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    I went out tonight, took some measurements, and overlaid them on the OB light image. You can see very well up to the 100 foot mark. The practical limit to where you can no longer make out features on the road is about 160 feet.

    The forum software degrades the image when resizing, but in the original you can see the tire marks on the pavement almost up to the 160 foot mark.

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  83. #583
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    Very good picture. Sometimes it helps to show more detail in the distance if you crop the photo and zoom in to the distance. I just now tried this using your photo. Didn't get the results I was hoping for but that is only because we are dealing with the limitations of the photo itself and the fact that you probably didn't use a fancy camera or a tripod. However I was able to bring out more detail to the sides of the road by adding more contrast to the orignal. It looks like you were riding down a road with corn fields on both sides. Anyway, not a bad photo considering all the limitations.

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    Man I go away to Seattle for a work trip and it all blows up on here.

    Regarding the technical stuff, yep, the website is more of a high level overview since most people's eyes do glaze over when they start seeing numbers, or worse, they misinterpret them. It happens all the time with lighting especially. It's pretty funny seeing the bounce rate on certain pages. Those who land on this blog: https://www.outboundlighting.com/twi...right-well-no/ seem to stay on it for either 5 minutes or 15 seconds. Majority is 15 seconds.

    ------------------------

    I am very hesitant giving away too many hard numbers for my beam pattern design because that is one of the few proprietary items that is indeed a bit hard to reverse engineer properly unless have a goniophotometer and the software packages I have access to. I have talked about some of the higher level things about HOW I've designed it, but I am not going to be publishing the targeted candela amounts at certain angles and such. If someone wants to buy one, and reverse engineer it, I am all for it, but I am not going to just give it away and publish it online for people to easily find. I think this is pretty customary across the board. Heck most light manufactures wouldn't even be able to tell you the actual beam profile besides some peak numbers because all they've done is pick out an optic in a catalog.

    --------------

    A high-low is technically possible, but not in the immediate future. I have some trick ideas for that, but it would not work on the current design since the LED is already on the edge of the MPCB, and cannot easily add another one up front along with remote switching. Cannot start a new design until sales pick up. So we'll see after the fall.

    -------------

    New straps are on the way, and will be sending them out to everyone as soon as they come in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by QCrr View Post
    ...25 inches...
    oops so I think the white glossy tile floor near to where I was measuring was throwing off the measurement.. I measured outside over light brown gravel at 25 feet and probably better to say the brightest illumination is the region ~10 to ~30 inches below the cutoff (29.5 inch beam height). But these measurements probably are not super accurate I think.

    on the high low issue I think I a high beam is certainly nice, but I don't think it is stricly necessary though when average speeds might peek for most at 20-27 mph on unfaired bicycles.

    oh ya really good picture! I think that is pretty close to how the light illuminates from when I was trying it out on the mountain bike (which doe

    ya the engineering (and from the US) is superb!

    ooo cool on the straps!

  86. #586
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post

    the current design .
    I figured I'd give it some time for you to figure out before I asked the prototype vs. production max. lux discrepancy question. These are very nice lights and I'm happy with my purchase but also curious why the production models max. lux numbers ended up being so much lower than the prototype's produced?
    Mole

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Very good picture. Sometimes it helps to show more detail in the distance if you crop the photo and zoom in to the distance. I just now tried this using your photo. Didn't get the results I was hoping for but that is only because we are dealing with the limitations of the photo itself and the fact that you probably didn't use a fancy camera or a tripod. However I was able to bring out more detail to the sides of the road by adding more contrast to the orignal. It looks like you were riding down a road with corn fields on both sides. Anyway, not a bad photo considering all the limitations.
    I took these with a newer iPhone. They are vertical because when I tried to take it in the horizontal aspect the camera would insist on focusing on the beam on the ground and would noticeably over correct and darken the picture.

    In vertical mode I could pull it off by tricking it into focusing in the black space at the top of the screen

    I got out my Canon 70D today and thought I'd replicate these with a real camera, but the battery won't hold a charge for more than about 2 minutes. I guess I let it sit unused for too long. So I have one on order and will try this out hopefully over the weekend.

    Anyone have any suggestions as to settings on a DLSR to realistically capture these type of images? (bright beam within a dark background)

  88. #588
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sisyphean View Post
    any suggestions as to settings on a DLSR to realistically capture these type of images? (bright beam within a dark background)
    "Realistically" = as you see? A dream, I'd venture to say. Every compact camera maker will advertize their proprietary firmware algorithm as "now the most realistic ever!".

    Getting down to reality... SLRs are good for another reason: they provide a hoard of hidden, but available data. Huge sensor (and accompanying huge lens) grabs a lot of light (compared with compacts). So due to lots of input data (=light), the measurements have much higher accuracy. So you can unveil the dark tones in a raw editor. (if you do it for a shot from a compact camera, you'll get mainly noise).

    You can however fumble it all with SLR if it turns out that camera shake is unacceptable. You'll set too fast exposure (and high ISO) to make image sharp, so there will be little light, so results will be like with a compact camera.

    So, bottomline: Optionally: use a tripod, won't hurt, but may turn out to be unnecessary. ISO sens -> minimum (usually 100). Use timer to reduce camera shake from pressing buttons. Then adjust curves yourself in raw editor the way it looks "most realistic".

    However, if you do use a tripod, you can use just about any compact camera (raw-capable) for same purpose, if you combine (later) several shots with several exposures into a single shot (this is called HDR=high dynamic range). This way you can get even much better results, with a cheap compact, than with single shot from any high-end SLR.

    And... a place ideally should be wide, without walls on the sides (hard to find; tried myself several years ago). You can put some objects at some distances as markers. And the near field - would be great if shown right from the wheel. Yeah... I'm not sure you knew what it could take -- when you wrote that you took those shots "painstakingly"

  89. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sisyphean View Post
    Anyone have any suggestions as to settings on a DLSR to realistically capture these type of images? (bright beam within a dark background)
    Some discussion here, though on the old side...

    Camera settings for beam shots?
    Negative rep, please.

  90. #590
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    Oh...

    First. It is a bit illiterate to recommend specific settings for all cameras. To get same perspective, noise level, and depth of field, the settings should be converted to full-frame equivalent using camera sensor *crop factor*.

    If "reference" is Canon G9, with crop=35/7.4=4.7297, with triple (ISO100 4s F4.0), then its full-frame equivalent will have (roughly, depends on sensor generation): isoFF=crop^2*isoG9=2237, apertureFF=crop*apertureG9=18.919, exposure same 4s.

    D70 is not full-frame (APS-C), crop=1.59, so iso and aperture should similarly be "equivalented". Set isoD70=isoFF/crop^2=884.85, and apertureD70=apertureFF/crop=11.899, exposure same 4s.

    Zoom (focal distance) is much more important than the above noise=iso and dof=aperture because it defines perspecitve. But it's not specified in the "reference standard" (may be due to absence of step zoom in G9). Ask the author (Valerie?) and use his equivalent.

    Second, most important. Just forget it all. Really. Do as you see the fit. Nobody will care comparing your shots with that "standard" anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abvgdee View Post
    I'm not sure you knew what it could take -- when you wrote that you took those shots "painstakingly"
    Yea, "painstakingly" meaning I had to take a LOT of pictures to get a few that looked right. In the end, the best results were using HDR, holding the iphone very, very still and focusing the camera on the black space.

    I tried to do video, but those turned out very dark.

    I'll see what I can accomplish with the DSLR.

  92. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by abvgdee View Post
    Second, most important. Just forget it all. Really. Do as you see the fit. Nobody will care comparing your shots with that "standard" anyway.
    Haha probably the best advice. I would think, however, that any one person would want to use the same settings on the same camera when taking pictures to compare two different lights.
    Negative rep, please.

  93. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by abvgdee View Post

    ....So, bottomline: Optionally: use a tripod, won't hurt, but may turn out to be unnecessary. ISO sens -> minimum (usually 100). Use timer to reduce camera shake from pressing buttons. Then adjust curves yourself in raw editor the way it looks "most realistic".

    However, if you do use a tripod, you can use just about any compact camera (raw-capable) for same purpose, if you combine (later) several shots with several exposures into a single shot (this is called HDR=high dynamic range). This way you can get even much better results, with a cheap compact, than with single shot from any high-end SLR....
    Without getting too technical with all the camera setting stuff, use with a tripod will do wonders. ( you need to remove the shake, tripod and timer does that pretty well ) Of course not many of us are going to carry a full size tripod on a bike ride. ( although I've done it before, total PITA I do say. ) That said when I do beam shots I like looking at the POV as if sitting on the bike ( at head height ). Need I say, unless you have a really tall tripod that would be almost impossible.

    Then there is the problem in what to do with the bike while you are fiddling with a camera. On MTB rides I've used broken tree branches to hold the bike up straight and I've used a portable camera mount that attaches to a tree to stabilize the camera. I haven't used that setup in years though and since I no longer have a working compact digital camera I wouldn't be able to use it anyway. I thought of buying another compact digital camera but damn they want some bucks for those things now.

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    Cat

    I have to agree carrying a tripod is a PITA!!!

    Luckily in my case I have a couple trails I can drive up to crossings so I only have to walk a short distance. The one I have used is 2 stage extendable to that helps a little.

    Hard to justify and expensive camera just for beam shots though so most its phone, gopro, or something not huge and expensive.

    Even rider perspective beam shots dont tell the whole story, trying to get a picture that sees what the human eye can see isnt cheap or easy to work with.

    Leaves us with seeing beam shots and owning lights to get a perspective as to what the camera is leaving out. Biggest annoyance is hot spots from what I've experienced. Hot spot takes over sometimes which is really annoying. Want to see the full effect of the spread you get this hard to look at spot in the middle (in the picture)

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    That's why I have been pretty happy with the GoPro6 Black on my face when riding. In the superview it accurately captures the FOV that we actually see. Low light performance is pretty good, and aside from missing out on the super low level light it's a pretty good indicator of how the lights perform and the beam pattern comparison.

    I also am not a fan of static beam shot photos. To me movement is what really tells the story. Either that or Goniophotometer charts, but won't find any of those for bike lights.
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  96. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outbound View Post
    T
    ..I also am not a fan of static beam shot photos. To me movement is what really tells the story. Either that or Goniophotometer charts, but won't find any of those for bike lights.
    Yeah, we all love a good video but with video ( even good ones ) you can't tell perspective so well because all the imagery is going by so fast. Up until recently a lot of videos I'm seen looked really grainy and low resolution. Some of the recent ones I've seen though have looked much better. Both yours and RAKC's look really good. It pays to have better equipment when you want to promote a product.

    Personally, I like me a good static beam shot. Key to this though is a good camera and a steady hand coupled with distance indicators so people can judge the distance the light is throwing.

    Now with all this said I've been thinking a lot about buying something like a Gopro camera and setup for doing videos. I might actually be able to get me a brand new Gopro camera from my job ( part of my companies' award program ). If I'm going to buy one though I want the stuff that is going to give me the best resolution. Any recommendations you can give when it comes to cameras I'd love to hear about. As far as riding with a camera I doubt I'd try to mount the camera to my helmet. I'd likely go with one of those chest mounted setups. That said would be nice if something like this also worked with BT ( with my phone ) so I can see what the camera is looking at while I'm sitting on the bike. Any tips on doing all this would be much appreciated.

  97. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Yeah, we all love a good video but with video ( even good ones ) you can't tell perspective so well because all the imagery is going by so fast. Up until recently a lot of videos I'm seen looked really grainy and low resolution. Some of the recent ones I've seen though have looked much better. Both yours and RAKC's look really good. It pays to have better equipment when you want to promote a product.

    Personally, I like me a good static beam shot. Key to this though is a good camera and a steady hand coupled with distance indicators so people can judge the distance the light is throwing.

    Now with all this said I've been thinking a lot about buying something like a Gopro camera and setup for doing videos. I might actually be able to get me a brand new Gopro camera from my job ( part of my companies' award program ). If I'm going to buy one though I want the stuff that is going to give me the best resolution. Any recommendations you can give when it comes to cameras I'd love to hear about. As far as riding with a camera I doubt I'd try to mount the camera to my helmet. I'd likely go with one of those chest mounted setups. That said would be nice if something like this also worked with BT ( with my phone ) so I can see what the camera is looking at while I'm sitting on the bike. Any tips on doing all this would be much appreciated.
    I can't recomend the Hero6 Black enough. I love it, and used to use only the Hero2, lightyears ahead of what they used to be.

    I use a rather odd setup for my videos, mostly because I want to be able to truly see what I am looking at, so I wear a headband, and then use a boom to put the GoPro in front of my mouth. Stays pretty stable (as seen on the videos I've put out) and the audio comes through crystal clear. It's not terribly bad once you get used to it. Would I wear it for hours and hours? Nah. But for a quick 30 minute ride to get some footage it's great.

    Ignore my ugly mug.

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    Rotflmao. If it works that's all that matters.

    I have a hero 5b and 5 session. Works amazingly well.

    Couldnt imagine trying to fly through trails with a camera right there. Next time I'm down (and can ride, I'll be in a sling when I come down over labor day, shoulder surgery the week before) I want proof you can ride and not hit things that way

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    Quote Originally Posted by outbound View Post
    .....ignore my ugly mug.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I also love the Hero6 cause you can do amazing resolution if you need to but mainly cause itís so much better at handling the changes in light with shadows and bright spots. The key though for any mtb video is a gimbal. I use a GoPro karma grip and itís a little bulky but works awesome. Lots of people use the Feiyu Tech stuff from Amazon.

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