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  1. #1
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    Opinions on an Exposure Bar Mounted Flood

    Hello everybody,

    I recently got into night riding after picking up an Exposure Diablo Mk4. With it helmet mounted, the Diablo throws out an incredible amount of light (1100 lumens) in a tiny and low weight (100g) package. Totally impressed. Well, I think I've been bitten by the night riding bug and am in search of a nice bar mounted flood to compliment the helmet mounted Diablo.

    After doing some research and thinking, I've come to really admire the compact form of the Exposure lights. Keeping it simple and not having a long cord or external battery pack seems like a huge advantage, IMO. So, I've been focusing my search on the Exposure lineup of lights. The Diablo has a pretty narrow beam pattern, but how does the spread of the bar mounted Exposure lights compare? I've mainly been looking at the Toro and MaxX-D for flood duties.

    Or as a second option, would there be any benefit in going with a second helmet mounted Diablo in lieu of a bar mounted flood? I'm thinking I would be able to spread the beam out a bit and avoid having a light bouncing around on my bars.

    Or as a third option, if I disregard my disdain for cords and bulky batteries, I can save some cash with some of the cheaper light setups. What do you think, is mounting and unmounting cords and batteries a deal-breaker?

    FYI my budget is $350, which places the sale-priced Toro and MaxX-D (but not the Six Pack) in my budget.

    Any opinions?

    Thanks!

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    I am about to pull the trigger myself. I am leaning HEAVILY toward the amneoba light bult by SCAR here on the forum. He is a private indivudual who does this on the side from his regular job. Look him up, within your price range, quality product and has some nice options for people!

    just my .02

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    I think you definitely need some sort of bar light. The reason being that headlamp only does not give you any sense of depth. It makes everything look flat, and it's hard to recognize obstacles.

    Exposure makes nice lights. I don't really see you going wrong with one of those. The only downside of all-in-one lights in general is that they are heavier, making them prone to rotate around the bar, and a more limited run time. I don't know if the Exposures have this problem of rotating on the handlebars. Most of the manufactures are coming out with the updated emitters, i.e xm-l2, so I would keep my eye out for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    I think you definitely need some sort of bar light. The reason being that headlamp only does not give you any sense of depth. It makes everything look flat, and it's hard to recognize obstacles.

    Exposure makes nice lights. I don't really see you going wrong with one of those. The only downside of all-in-one lights in general is that they are heavier, making them prone to rotate around the bar, and a more limited run time. I don't know if the Exposures have this problem of rotating on the handlebars. Most of the manufactures are coming out with the updated emitters, i.e xm-l2, so I would keep my eye out for that.
    I have (this week) picked up a 2012 (I think Mk4) Maxx-D, for precisely the reasons you have listed above. I have a Diablo Mk2 as well. I used the Maxx-D for the first time last night and it makes a massive difference. I managed to get some personal bests on trails I have ridden a lot, so it must have helped with confidence.

    Don't think you can go wrong with their poducts, but there are lots of good models on the market.

  5. #5
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    exposure is trash ( in my humble opinion ). it is even worse than Lupine ( in my humble opinion ). generally speaking ( with the exception of music ) everything British is trash ( in my humble opinion ) but it's wrong to generalize ( so i am told ).

    diablo has 1 hour battery run time. the lowest of any light in existence ! even a fat ass loser like me rides for 3 hours. a good workout is 2 to 6 hours or so. a good light will allow you to swap batteries as needed to make sure it will last that 6 hours at least on medium level.

    when i got my Seca Race light it had 1.5 hours battery life out of the box, because i was an idiot and didn't know any better. but when i realized my rides are longer than that i just bought a spare battery and now i have 3 hours of run time. but my last 2 rides were both 3 hours so now i'm thinking about getting another battery to extend my run time to 4.5 hours. i can do that. you can't. because your light is self-contained.

    get Light & Motion Seca 1700. its $320 so in your budget. if you can up your budget get NiteRider Pro 3600 DIY which is $530. you can get extra 6 cell battery for the NiteRider for $150 or an extra 3 Cell for the Seca for $130. either way your run time would double from 1.5 hours to 3 hours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gribble View Post
    I have (this week) picked up a 2012 (I think Mk4) Maxx-D, for precisely the reasons you have listed above. I have a Diablo Mk2 as well. I used the Maxx-D for the first time last night and it makes a massive difference. I managed to get some personal bests on trails I have ridden a lot, so it must have helped with confidence.

    Don't think you can go wrong with their poducts, but there are lots of good models on the market.
    Nice! How stable is the light on the handlebar?

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    If you need more runtime from almost any exposure light in high you can also purchase their support cell in 3 different sizes depending on needs and duration you are seeking.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    If you need more runtime from almost any exposure light in high you can also purchase their support cell in 3 different sizes depending on needs and duration you are seeking.
    yes but if you're going to be using wires anyway what's the point of having all this bulk on the mount ?

    even on such a low output light as Philips Saferide the self-contained strategy doesn't work - not enough run time. even on my Spoke Lights the self-contained strategy didn't give me enough run time. i replaced my self-contained spoke lights ( just today in fact ) with spoke lights that are connected to a hub mounted battery by a cable. out of 11 lights on my bike only 3 are self contained, namely the helmet blinky ( Red Zone 8 ) and bar end light blinkys ( Trek Beacon ).

    the self-contained approach simply doesn't work for anything but blinky type lights, and "commuter" lights. that's why big companies like NiteRider and Light & Motion will use self-contained approach on blinkys and commuter lights and wired for performance lights. it's just basic common sense.

    and here is where it gets interesting - both in NiteRider range and Light & Motion range there is a point where the wired and self contained lights meet at the same output level. for example NiteRider pro 750 and NiteRider Lumina 700. or in case of L&M Stella 500 and Urban 700. the self contained Urban 700 has 40% more lumens than the wired Stella 500 but still costs 25% less ! same story with NiteRider the self-contained Lumina 700 is only $113 while corded Pro 750 is $189.

    in other words for the same output a wired system costs 60% MORE than a self-contained one from the same manufacturer. meanwhile the OP has stated that he might be willing to go to "cheaper" wired systems LOL. nothing is cheaper than self-contained. there is nothing "magical" about self-contained lights - they're just CHEAP, regardless of the price.

    the customer thinks oh wow the finish is so nice it must be a really high end product ! how can it be bad when it is so expensive and so shiny ? the entire hi-end audio industry is built on this principle.

    Apple head of Design Jony Ive has said in an interview that Customers DON'T UNDERSTAND the technology they're buying, so they rely on instinct and buy whatever FEELS premium when they hold it in the hand. he actually said that. and its true.

    it doesn't matter that Exposure has neither the performance of NiteRider nor the Battery Life, and costs twice as much - the customer can't understand any of this - all the customer can understand is that NiteRider is made out of ugly plastic and Exposure is made out of sexy machined metal. Now exposure only needs to convince the ignorant customer that being self-contained is "advanced" and the customer is sold and runs to the forums to tell everybody that he has the best light in the world.

    people you are doing it wrong. don't get a stupid light and come here to tell us how excited you are about your foolish mistake. come here first and ask what to get BEFORE you get anything. again, that's COMMON SENSE.

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    ... and if we just ...

    Androgen, thanks for sharing your opinion. I am British and I guess I must be trash too.

    Despite Androgen's comments I don't think it is a stretch to say Exposure Lights are well regarded, (my opinion is shared by plenty of others), but as per my previous post there are loads of excellent lighting options and as mountain bikers we are lucky in having so many good options to chose from.

    In relation to battery life, I was fully aware that when I bought the Diablo, battery life was short. Most of my local rides are sub one hour if riding after work on the local trails, so it suited the need for me perfectly. I have since bought a piggyback battery to extend battery life, but again other options are available (and plenty with a longer battery life).

    Anyway, to answer the question asked earlier, Maxx-D light seems perfectly stable on the bars (although I have had only 1 ride with it on the bars).

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by gribble View Post
    but as per my previous post there are loads of excellent lighting options and as mountain bikers we are lucky in having so many good options to chose from.
    This seems to be the main area where Andro just can't seem to reconcile. If one does not share exactly the same ideas or wants in lights as he, they are dumb, trash, ignorant,yada,yada, yada. If a product does not suit his wants in a light, it is garbage or junk. It appears you have taken it in good humor. I wonder how many new forum viewers have not and left.

    He's kind of a blight on this forum and has cast a dark shadow over what once was a great place to find advice. knowledge and night riding vibe.
    Last edited by Vancbiker; 10-04-2013 at 11:26 AM. Reason: Fix spelling

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by gribble View Post
    Androgen, thanks for sharing your opinion. I am British and I guess I must be trash too.
    LOL. well then maybe you can get Top Gear to stop trashing American Cars

    On a more serious note, as i said the British have had more than their fair share of great musicians / bands ( Beatles and Elton John are not my cup of tea, but "the Prodigy" is ridiculously awesome ) and certainly more than their fair share of great car shows.

    however, i personally am of the opinion that British engineering survives mostly due to those great car shows that pimp Lotus and James Bond movies that pimp Jaguars and Astons.

    the British stuff is usually well regarded but it is almost always not deserved ( in my opinion ). i once had a supposedly hi-fi british Amplifier ( NAD ) and it sounded worse than an average receiver from a big box store - i was shocked by how bad it sounded - this company ( NAD ) was also well regarded by "audiophiles" ...

    there is just this Aura of mystique around British products that isn't based on anything. German cars ALWAYS beat British cars in tests but Top Gear ALWAYS says that British cars are the best.

    if you want to support your country by buying British that's great - you should have stated that you are a British patriot and you want to buy British.

    i stand by my opinion that the best lights come from California, followed by Germany and some unique ones come from Australia, while the British are mainly good for making overpriced lights.

    now "overpriced" of course depends on exchange rates / import duties etc. maybe in Britain it is the American lights that are overpriced, and British lights are a great value - no way for me to know that. you didn't say that you were from Britain so i was going off of the prices we see here in US.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    LOL. well then maybe you can get Top Gear to stop trashing American Cars
    Once again you've proven your statements and "reviews" are not based on facts but personal feelings and biased beliefs. We are here at mtbr or mountain bike review forum. This is not your incoherent personal journal. I wanted to feel a little for your condition but you make it hard for anyone to like you. How you lasted this long here without being banned is beyond me. You won't last 2 days at CPF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    LOL. well then maybe you can get Top Gear to stop trashing American Cars

    On a more serious note, as i said the British have had more than their fair share of great musicians / bands ( Beatles and Elton John are not my cup of tea, but "the Prodigy" is ridiculously awesome ) and certainly more than their fair share of great car shows.

    however, i personally am of the opinion that British engineering survives mostly due to those great car shows that pimp Lotus and James Bond movies that pimp Jaguars and Astons.

    the British stuff is usually well regarded but it is almost always not deserved ( in my opinion ). i once had a supposedly hi-fi british Amplifier ( NAD ) and it sounded worse than an average receiver from a big box store - i was shocked by how bad it sounded - this company ( NAD ) was also well regarded by "audiophiles" ...

    there is just this Aura of mystique around British products that isn't based on anything. German cars ALWAYS beat British cars in tests but Top Gear ALWAYS says that British cars are the best.

    if you want to support your country by buying British that's great - you should have stated that you are a British patriot and you want to buy British.

    i stand by my opinion that the best lights come from California, followed by Germany and some unique ones come from Australia, while the British are mainly good for making overpriced lights.

    now "overpriced" of course depends on exchange rates / import duties etc. maybe in Britain it is the American lights that are overpriced, and British lights are a great value - no way for me to know that. you didn't say that you were from Britain so i was going off of the prices we see here in US.
    Andro, seriously, I was hoping I would not need to bother to explain my buying preferences. For full disclosure, Exposure is manufactured about 10 from where I live, in a town called Petworth. Location or desire to buy British has nothing to do with it. Exchange rates and the availability of spares etc would do.

    My car is German, 1st bike French, 2nd bike American, most of the parts are from the US or Japan. For me the best product at a price point gets my money, although this in itself is largely subjective.

    I am not going to argue about Top Gear, their views on American cars or the quality (or lack of it) in British engineering. Top Gear do not represent all of the population of the UK and besides they are a show for entertainment only.

    I am perfectly aware that as a nation we have plenty of faults, odd behaviour and some embarrassing history. This doesn't change the fact that I was born here and am not ashamed to be British. But let's be clear, this does not feel me with some sense of loyalty or feeling I must buy only from British manufacturers.

  14. #14
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    Opinions on an Exposure Bar Mounted Flood

    Quote Originally Posted by gribble View Post
    Andro, seriously, I was hoping I would not need to bother to explain my buying preferences. For full disclosure, Exposure is manufactured about 10 from where I live, in a town called Petworth. Location or desire to buy British has nothing to do with it. Exchange rates and the availability of spares etc would do.

    My car is German, 1st bike French, 2nd bike American, most of the parts are from the US or Japan. For me the best product at a price point gets my money, although this in itself is largely subjective.

    I am not going to argue about Top Gear, their views on American cars or the quality (or lack of it) in British engineering. Top Gear do not represent all of the population of the UK and besides they are a show for entertainment only.

    I am perfectly aware that as a nation we have plenty of faults, odd behaviour and some embarrassing history. This doesn't change the fact that I was born here and am not ashamed to be British. But let's be clear, this does not feel me with some sense of loyalty or feeling I must buy only from British manufacturers.
    Well said old chap!

    May I suggest gemini's Olympian I've not used it myself but it gets great reviews and wiggle has the 2013 model for a good price and it's design in the colonies.


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    Quote Originally Posted by gribble View Post
    Andro, seriously, I was hoping I would not need to bother to explain my buying preferences. For full disclosure, Exposure is manufactured about 10 from where I live, in a town called Petworth. Location or desire to buy British has nothing to do with it. Exchange rates and the availability of spares etc would do.

    My car is German, 1st bike French, 2nd bike American, most of the parts are from the US or Japan. For me the best product at a price point gets my money, although this in itself is largely subjective.

    I am not going to argue about Top Gear, their views on American cars or the quality (or lack of it) in British engineering. Top Gear do not represent all of the population of the UK and besides they are a show for entertainment only.

    I am perfectly aware that as a nation we have plenty of faults, odd behaviour and some embarrassing history. This doesn't change the fact that I was born here and am not ashamed to be British. But let's be clear, his does not feel me with some sense of I must buy only from British manufacturers.
    well, another member here was looking for a self-contained helmet light. he INSISTED that the light be self contained and he wanted it to match his old halogen light in output, which was a low output, so i told him that Exposure makes the best self contained helmet lights.

    but the only reason i recommended Exposure to him was because he insisted he wanted a low-power self-contained helmet light.

    i still maintain that self-contained lights are not ideally suited for anything other than blinkys and commuter type lights. commuter lights have low output and short battery run time - they're designed to illuminate straight road so they have narrow beam, and they are designed just to get you to work and back so they have short battery life. on the other hand to illuminate a twisty trail for hours requires wider beam ( 2X beam width = 4X power draw ) and longer battery run times.

    so while single cell self-contained lights like NiteRider Lumina or Light & Motion Urban may be adequate for their intended purpose, a proper off-road lighting system should have have multi-cell battery packS that you can switch during the ride.

    you say you don't need a long run time. ok. i still prefer wired systems.

    some folks here tell me my Seca 1700 light is "too big and heavy" when it fits in the palm of the hand and weighs 4 ounces. you on the other hand want to buy a light the size of beer can that weighs half a pound and they say yay ! nice ! go ahead ! i just put these people on ignore list.

    self-contained has its advantages to a point. self-contained lights usually go to 500-700 lumens, and wired systems usually start at 700-900 lumens.

    self-contained systems are cheaper to make ( unless you machine them out of aluminum ) and are more reliable ( until your battery needs to be replaced ).

    wired systems have the advantage of being able to replace a battery when it runs down, or replace the battery when it fails, or upgrade the light head when a new one comes out while keeping the old battery and charger. in case of Lupine you can even upgrade just the LEDs and Optics without even upgrading the whole light head.

    in my case i not only have extra batteries, i also have extra chargers. this way i can charge all my batteries in parallel at the same time, but use them in series when i ride.

    to me the advantages of wired system outweigh the distadvantages, for all but disposable lights, commuter lights and specialty lights like bar end lights and a helmet mounted rear blinky like my Red Zone 8.

    i was considering Exposure for myself because of all the hype about the beautiful machining and construction, but at the end of the day i have 11 lights on my bike and i couldn't find home on it for even one Exposure. i just don't like their designs.

    it would be nice if you could have a light with Light & Motion level of design, Exposure level of Machining and Lupine level of battery, charger and upgrade options - but you can't. you just have to know what your priorities are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gribble View Post
    Andro, seriously, I was hoping I would not need to bother to explain my buying preferences. For full disclosure, Exposure is manufactured about 10 from where I live, in a town called Petworth. Location or desire to buy British has nothing to do with it. Exchange rates and the availability of spares etc would do.

    My car is German, 1st bike French, 2nd bike American, most of the parts are from the US or Japan. For me the best product at a price point gets my money, although this in itself is largely subjective.

    I am not going to argue about Top Gear, their views on American cars or the quality (or lack of it) in British engineering. Top Gear do not represent all of the population of the UK and besides they are a show for entertainment only.

    I am perfectly aware that as a nation we have plenty of faults, odd behaviour and some embarrassing history. This doesn't change the fact that I was born here and am not ashamed to be British. But let's be clear, this does not feel me with some sense of loyalty or feeling I must buy only from British manufacturers.
    by the way, if you want to get ACTUALLY USEFUL ADVICE it might help if you would post pictures of some of the roads / trails where you ride or describe them in words.

    because for example Dinotte XML3 is a very good light at a very good price, but has a narrow beam, which would make it a poor choice as a bar light on a twisty track.

    on the other hand a NiteRider Pro 3600 has a super-wide beam which makes it ideal as a bar light on a twisty track, but will be a waste on a straight road where a pair of XML-3 Dinottes would be cheaper, brighter and have longer battery life, because they would only illuminate straight ahead, and not also to the sides. they would also cause less glare to drivers by not spilling light all over the place.

    generally speaking bar lights need wider beam than helmet lights and off-road lights need wider beam than road lights.

    BEAM PATTERN IS MUCH MORE CRITICAL FOR A BAR LIGHT THAN HELMET LIGHT

    any decent beam with good throw will probably be good enough for helmet use, and by changing the position of your head you will adopt that beam to the situation at hand. but the beam pattern will make or break a bar light, because it has to be aimed just once and then work for all conditions you will encounter.

    niterider 3600 is a pure off-road bar light - it is as wide as you will find. Light & Motion Seca is more suited for road or helmet use, however it still has some width to enable bar off-road use as well. Dinotte XML-3 is a downright narrow beam which i would say is suited ONLY for helmet or road use, and not suited for off-road bar use.

    generally speaking within a same company range more powerful lighs will have wider beams, however Niterider for example is a company that specifically targets off-road market so their beams are wider for any given output level.

    also from my analysis of beam shots, and from some hands on experience as well i would say that Light & Motion beams are the most / best optimized, followed by NiteRider. while the worst shaped beams belong ( not surprisingly ) to Chinese $50 lights and ( what may be surprising to many ) to Lupine ( and other light heads that use large LEDs with small optics ). it is basically not physically possible to combine large emitters with small optics and get a good beam - but that's how you get the highest output to size ratio which is what Lupine is after.

    Niterider Pro 3600 ( super wide ) and Light & Motion Seca ( medium width ) have the best shaped beams on the market - but they are also some of the biggest light heads on the market - this is not actually a coincidence - large reflectors give more leverage to designer to shape the beam, and wider beams require wider reflectors.

    people think Lupine is better than L&M Seca because Lupine light heads are smaller LOL ! those small light heads is how Lupine gets their miserable beam that has no depth or width - only brightness. the Seca is that size for a reason, as is the NiteRider Pro 3600.

    the actual internal space in the Seca is virtually nonexistent - 90% of the size of the light head is in the reflectors and heatsinks ( the way it should be ) - both directly contributing to great performance. anybody who thinks its "too big" better learn to enjoy inferior performance.

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    Opinions on an Exposure Bar Mounted Flood

    Androgen it's all about the beam pattern with you. But there's so many variables; price, weight, size, runtime, beam, colour, mounting, and every rider wants or needs some thing different from there light. Just because it's not what you would buy doesn't mean it's wrong.



    Have you used an exposure? They really aren't bulky, simple to use and well crafted lights with superb customer service. Although mine was foolishly sold on it was great un clicking the light and taking it inside to charge. Rather than leaving a light head on the bike with a dangling cable whilst I charge up a battery pack.


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    WPW Androgen, You come off as a total jerk in just about everything you say in this thread (In my humble opinion)

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    Quote Originally Posted by spankone View Post
    Have you used an exposure? They really aren't bulky, simple to use and well crafted lights with superb customer service. Although mine was foolishly sold on it was great un clicking the light and taking it inside to charge. Rather than leaving a light head on the bike with a dangling cable whilst I charge up a battery pack.
    i have not used exposure and have no interest in any of their products. i don't understand this phobia of wires that people have.

    Quote Originally Posted by spankone View Post
    Androgen it's all about the beam pattern with you. But there's so many variables; price, weight, size, runtime, beam, colour, mounting, and every rider wants or needs some thing different from there light. Just because it's not what you would buy doesn't mean it's wrong.
    beam pattern is the most under-rated parameter, that's why i stress it. i stress run time as well. lumens are important, but most people are already paying close attention to them, so most of the time no special emphasis is needed. sometimes it is, and that's when i stress the lumens.

    the reason most people don't talk about beam pattern enough is because it cannot be condensed into a number and printed on spec sheet. it is the most difficult parameter to describe, so people just don't discuss it. but that's hiding your head in the sand.

    after lumens and run time beam pattern is the most important parameter, and a light with good beam pattern can easily outperform a light with inferior beam patter that has double the lumens.

    and the benefits of proper beam pattern go much further than simply putting more light where you need it. optimizing beam pattern enables the use of lighter batteries with longer run times and reduces glare to others, making you safer.

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    cable free is a hell of a lot easier to fit and remove and transfer between bikes and theres no potential frame damage from a poor fitting battery pack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spankone View Post
    cable free is a hell of a lot easier to fit and remove and transfer between bikes and theres no potential frame damage from a poor fitting battery pack.
    not a big deal for me.

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    So because thats not a big deal for you, it means exposure lights are trash?

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    Quote Originally Posted by spankone View Post
    So because thats not a big deal for you, it means exposure lights are trash?

    Well that and being made in the UK.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spankone View Post
    So because thats not a big deal for you, it means exposure lights are trash?
    i believe good mounting mechanisms are important. i stopped using my self-contained Philips Saferide in part due to its weak mounting mechanism that chatters and sags. i also criticized the battery mounting mechanism on my Dosun D400 for not being secure enough. i also praised NiteRider PRO lights for having strong mounts.

    but while i believe the mount MUST be well designed and built, the time saved in moving the battery pack from one frame to another is how much - a minute ? two minutes ?

    this would be important for a commuter bike where you chain the bike outside the grocery store and take off your blinkys before going in. in such a scenario you would be removing and reinstalling your lights potentially 2 - 3 times a day. which is why i say self-contained is a good choice for commuter lights.

    but how often do you actually switch lights in your use pattern ? i mean do you actually commute on your road bike then switch lights to your MTB and go out riding again the same day ?

    i certainly wouldn't want to stand in front of a grocery store for half an hour like an idiot removing or reinstalling lights every day, but i don't think dealing with an extra velcro strap every once in a while while i am at home is an issue.

    as i said, there are cons and pros to each approach, however self-contained favors commuter lights while wired favors high-performance lights.

    Exposure is the only maker of high-performance self-contained lights and from reading your posts it seems the people who buy them have some sort of irrational fear of wired systems.

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    Opinions on an Exposure Bar Mounted Flood

    Well actually when you have several bikes quick switching time is essential and the exposure mounts are solid. They simply don't compare to your Philips safe ride mount. But you would know that if you had experience with them.

    I would be great if you stopped spouting out your opinions like they are facts.


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