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  1. #1
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    New Gemini light? the Duo?

    saw this picture here: My Interbike Cherry Popped | NSMB.e.MAGAZINE - Freeride, Extreme and North Shore style Mountain Biking

    I'm interested in this light if it is a spot that could be used on the helmet. I find I just don't get the throw I'm looking for from my Xera, even with the super-spot optic... I know Gemini is in Las Vegas right now, but any info on availability (or if you need testers for the light ) would be awesome....
    continuous growth is the strategy of a cancer cell.

  2. #2
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    This is going to be my next helmet light for sure as long as they keep the price reasonable.

    Gemini Lights 2013 Lineup on Pinkbike

    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
    For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking


  3. #3
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    Looks pretty sweet. I'm wondering what the options will be for the optics.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekbob View Post
    Looks pretty sweet. I'm wondering what the options will be for the optics.
    I was thinking the same thing he said it has a wide beam but throws, I'm hoping its not too floody , it would be a waste otherwise. I have a olympia on my bars and a 808e on the noggin, hope this has enough punch for the helmet.
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman View Post
    I was thinking the same thing he said it has a wide beam but throws, I'm hoping its not too floody , it would be a waste otherwise. I have a olympia on my bars and a 808e on the noggin, hope this has enough punch for the helmet.
    The Duo looks almost like a Gloworm X2 clone. More than likely it should have a similar beam pattern depending on what optic they chose to go with. I've yet to try my GW on the helmet ( as it is my go to bar lamp ). The thing about lamps that use optics ( vs. reflectors ) is that there is always going to be the issue of center throw intensity vs. total beam spread. As I see it reflectors seem to be able to deliver better center ( spot ) throw. This doesn't mean that optics can't work, it just means you need the right optic and enough emitters to compensate for lack of a true hot spot. Whither the Duo is able to do this is anyone's guess.

    Looks like I'm gonna have to test the Gloworm on the helmet just for curiosities sake.

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=Cat-man-do;9713744]
    Looks like I'm gonna have to test the Gloworm on the helmet just for curiosities sake.[/QUOTE

    Be careful Cat, that might end costing you some money. I did the same thing with my Olympia and now I have two!
    Mole

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=MRMOLE;9713825]
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Looks like I'm gonna have to test the Gloworm on the helmet just for curiosities sake.[/QUOTE

    Be careful Cat, that might end costing you some money. I did the same thing with my Olympia and now I have two!
    Mole
    Yeah, if I end up liking the X2 helmet mounted that will create problems. I already own two X2's but one is the version 1. The X2 (V1) is on my road rig and X2 ( V2 ) is on the MTB.

  8. #8
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    Cat,
    It's not just the amount of light produced but also the comfort level of the smaller lighthead. I know there's not much weight difference between the 808e I used to use and the Olympia/Xera that I currently run, but after a couple of hours it makes a big difference. I know your Gloworm is light and I'm betting the new Duo will be too so they should provide the same benefit.
    Mole

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    The Duo looks almost like a Gloworm X2 clone. More than likely it should have a similar beam pattern depending on what optic they chose to go with. I've yet to try my GW on the helmet ( as it is my go to bar lamp ). The thing about lamps that use optics ( vs. reflectors ) is that there is always going to be the issue of center throw intensity vs. total beam spread. As I see it reflectors seem to be able to deliver better center ( spot ) throw. This doesn't mean that optics can't work, it just means you need the right optic and enough emitters to compensate for lack of a true hot spot. Whither the Duo is able to do this is anyone's guess.

    Looks like I'm gonna have to test the Gloworm on the helmet just for curiosities sake.
    Cat, we just completed the 12hr Day Night Thriller here in NZ. All 5 riders were XC weightweenies (and representative riders ) and were kitted out with on X2 on helmet and bars. They never complained about weight but gave plenty of positive feedback about the light at speed.

    Laps were 6.5km long and they were averaging 15min per lap.

    Give it a go on the helmet.....you'll love it!

    Bruce
    Gloworm

  10. #10
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    More info Action is listing them already need a price for light head only got tons of battery's already?
    seeing he's asking 259.99 for a complete system I'm thinking around $139.99 for lighthead? seeing Olympias going for $159.99 as lighthead only.
    Action-LED-Lights — Gemini DUO LED light System
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman View Post
    More info Action is listing them already need a price for light head only got tons of battery's already?
    seeing he's asking 259.99 for a complete system I'm thinking around $139.99 for lighthead? seeing Olympias going for $159.99 as lighthead only.
    Action-LED-Lights — Gemini DUO LED light System
    Something caught my attention on the spec in the link. It listed the battery as a four cell 5200mah but with a runtime in high for 3hrs at high mode (1400 lumens). Can this light using the U2 be that efficient?

  12. #12
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    I prefer the lower profile helmet mount used on the Gloworm over the Gemini. I own the Gloworm and Gemini Xera (both great lights). Looks like the Gemini DUO uses the same helmet mounting as the Xera. Both the Gemini and Gloworm mounts work well and are lightweight on the helmet.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Gemini light?  the Duo?-duo2_grande.jpg  

    New Gemini light?  the Duo?-helmet-scale_600.png  


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by colleen c View Post
    Something caught my attention on the spec in the link. It listed the battery as a four cell 5200mah but with a runtime in high for 3hrs at high mode (1400 lumens). Can this light using the U2 be that efficient?
    Good point. If it truly gets 3hrs on high it has to be under-driven. The Gemini batteries are good but not that good.

    Posted by Brooks04:
    I prefer the lower profile helmet mount used on the Gloworm over the Gemini. I own the Gloworm and Gemini Xera (both great lights). Looks like the Gemini DUO uses the same helmet mounting as the Xera. Both the Gemini and Gloworm mounts work well and are lightweight on the helmet.
    Interesting that you mention this. I was fiddling with the Gloworm X2 helmet mount just yesterday. The first thing I noticed about the mount is that once you get it on it is VERY low profile and VERY adjustable. This will be the only lamp that I've used on the helmet that I can "easily adjust" while on the fly. I've yet to ride with it on the helmet but this is the week that I will give it a spin.

    FWIW, someone needs to come up with a lower profile helmet mount suitable for the O-ring mounted light systems. Like the photo that Brooks posted shows, the mounts themselves are too tall. I use an old DiNotte 200L mount. It is more of a "half pipe" approach and so is not as tall as typical " full pipe" mounts. The DiNotte also uses cam buckles rather than Velcro making it more easier to work with. Unfortunately it looks like DiNotte doesn't sell these any more. The new version is taller, more like the typical full pipe mount. Regardless, the cam strap system is way better than the Velcro stuff IMO. ( new DiNotte mount below )


  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Interesting that you mention this. I was fiddling with the Gloworm X2 helmet mount just yesterday. The first thing I noticed about the mount is that once you get it on it is VERY low profile and VERY adjustable. This will be the only lamp that I've used on the helmet that I can "easily adjust" while on the fly. I've yet to ride with it on the helmet but this is the week that I will give it a spin.

    Regardless, the cam strap system is way better than the Velcro stuff IMO.
    Hey Cat, you'll be pleased to know we've also changed the design of the helmet strap to include a small buckle to allow the velcro to be threaded and then fastened against itself.

    Bruce

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman View Post
    More info Action is listing them already need a price for light head only got tons of battery's already?
    seeing he's asking 259.99 for a complete system I'm thinking around $139.99 for lighthead? seeing Olympias going for $159.99 as lighthead only.
    Action-LED-Lights — Gemini DUO LED light System
    Same boat here. Will be watching for the price of light head only.

    Curious how it would compare to my MS856 (872 in different housing). Any guesses?
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  16. #16
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    What I'd really like to know is whether it can be run as a super-spot. I'd really like to see X2 and Duo side-by-side beam shot comparisons similar to the trail pictures up on the lights shootout page. Or even a Duo compared to a Xera, both with spot optics. I'm looking for a spot that is a little brighter and can throw a little farther the Xera.

    Gemini? Are you out there? Any answers for us?
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by colleen c View Post
    Something caught my attention on the spec in the link. It listed the battery as a four cell 5200mah but with a runtime in high for 3hrs at high mode (1400 lumens). Can this light using the U2 be that efficient?
    [

    To acheive this runtime requires the light to be no more effecient than the new 1800 U2 Olympia. Action lists the runtime of the Olympia w/4 cell battery at 140 minutes. If you calculate the percentage difference of the lumen output and apply it to the runtime it works out to 180 minutes, or 3 hrs. In the past Gemini has been very conservative with their claimed light/battery runtimes so this seems reasonable to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by slyfink View Post
    What I'd really like to know is whether it can be run as a super-spot. I'd really like to see X2 and Duo side-by-side beam shot comparisons similar to the trail pictures up on the lights shootout page. Or even a Duo compared to a Xera, both with spot optics. I'm looking for a spot that is a little brighter and can throw a little farther the Xera.

    Gemini? Are you out there? Any answers for us?
    My biggest complaint on my Olympia is that there were no optic options. Lets hope that won't be the same on the Duo.
    Mole

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    [

    To acheive this runtime requires the light to be no more effecient than the new 1800 U2 Olympia. Action lists the runtime of the Olympia w/4 cell battery at 140 minutes. If you calculate the percentage difference of the lumen output and apply it to the runtime it works out to 180 minutes, or 3 hrs. In the past Gemini has been very conservative with their claimed light/battery runtimes so this seems reasonable to me.



    My biggest complaint on my Olympia is that there were no optic options. Lets hope that won't be the same on the Duo.
    Mole
    If all things being equal, than yeah it has to be no more efficient than the U2 Olympia based on the proportion lumens and runtime. The major variable here that changes this is that the Olympia is driving three XML while the Duo is driving two LED. It's more efficient and uses less power to drive three LED to achieve 1400 OTF lumens than it is to drive two LED to get the same OTF (unless I am wrong and I hasve been known to make mistakes ). They must have verly little or below average overall loss. I'm thinking good light optics, low loss driver or maybe even PWM in the High setting?

    I'm also interested to see what the OTF lumens will be when the body heats up and how much does the OTF drops. Most lights I tested does indeed drops with some way more than others. Guess we will find out when this is out in the market and feedback are reported from users.

    I agree that the Olympia major disadvantage was no option with the optics. This Duo might just be the answer for bridging the gap between the Xera and Olympia.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by colleen c View Post
    If all things being equal, than yeah it has to be no more efficient than the U2 Olympia based on the proportion lumens and runtime. The major variable here that changes this is that the Olympia is driving three XML while the Duo is driving two LED. It's more efficient and uses less power to drive three LED to achieve 1400 OTF lumens than it is to drive two LED to get the same OTF (unless I am wrong and I hasve been known to make mistakes ). They must have verly little or below average overall loss. I'm thinking good light optics, low loss driver or maybe even PWM in the High setting?

    I'm also interested to see what the OTF lumens will be when the body heats up and how much does the OTF drops. Most lights I tested does indeed drops with some way more than others. Guess we will find out when this is out in the market and feedback are reported from users.

    I agree that the Olympia major disadvantage was no option with the optics. This Duo might just be the answer for bridging the gap between the Xera and Olympia.
    Hopefully the below links help when looking at claimed lumens and runtime.

    We encountered the challenge of establishing the sweet spot between Runtime/Temperature/OTF lumen when we brought the X2 to market. We utilised these tools when undergoing the design stages.

    Cree Tool This tool is simply awesome. You basically select the correct variables for the emmitter you intened on using. Including junction temp, required lumens and optical/electronic efficiency. It then pumps out how many LEDs and at what current you need to acheive the deisred outcome. It also provides watts (heat) produced. In our experience this tool is very close to actual testing.

    LED runtime tool This one basically gives runtime based on all common factors. Once again, the theoretical needs to be taken with the actual, but once again we have been very close in testing.

    Cree XML Data Sheet This obviously helps with the variables when entering data into the above sheets.

    Bruce and Vag
    Gloworm
    Last edited by Gloworm Manufacture; 09-24-2012 at 06:43 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gloworm Manufacture View Post
    Hey Cat, you'll be pleased to know we've also changed the design of the helmet strap to include a small buckle to allow the velcro to be threaded and then fastened against itself.

    Bruce
    HA!...Nice. I beat you to the punch though as I already had a spare ( buckled Velcro strap ) laying around. Having a buckle to help tighten it down is really needed. The only problem is some of these straps ( with plastic buckles ) are poorly made. Tighten them too tight and either the strap or the buckle will break. One of the ( plastic ) buckles on one of my battery bags broke as well. The Chinese don't do plastic very well.

    Later this week I plan on skipping over to REI to see what they have laying around. They should have an array of sizes to chose from.

  21. #21
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    So is this a thread about the New Duo light or Glowworm
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman View Post
    So is this a thread about the New Duo light or Glowworm
    Definitely about the Duo, and for the record it looks like a great little unit

    I was just attempting to provide the readers with some resources that may help them when discussing runtimes, lumens etc.

  23. #23
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    [QUOTE=colleen c;9719587]
    Guess we will find out when this is out in the market and feedback are reported from users.

    Taking information off one of your old posts, you got 245 minutes runtime out of a 6 cell on your Olympia (16% beyond Gemini's claim for the T-6 Olympia). Today I ran a 4 cell test and got 143 minutes (19% above Gemini's claim for the T-6 Olympia) just to back-up my "Gemini conservative runtime claim". I know there are lots of variables comparing one light to another and I picked the Olympia because I figured it would be the most consistant in regards to optic/driver quality and manufacturer cliams. Yes, we're all just guessing at this and I based my optimistic opinion on Gemini's reputation and past performance quality.
    Mole

  24. #24
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    Hi there,

    I just ordered the Gemini XERA for my lid and want to compliment it with a nice light for my bar. I had my mind made up with the XML3 but then the Gemini DUO is now available. Can anyone recommend which one would be better for me??

    It will be for XC riding....some of the riding in the area is technical rooty hilly trails

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizaloo View Post
    Hi there,

    I just ordered the Gemini XERA for my lid and want to compliment it with a nice light for my bar. I had my mind made up with the XML3 but then the Gemini DUO is now available. Can anyone recommend which one would be better for me??

    It will be for XC riding....some of the riding in the area is technical rooty hilly trails
    You cannot go wrong with a Olympia... For the last few years I have been searching for the perfect bar IE flood light and it meets every criteria Blinding goodness + plenty of throw... I have tried 2 xmls on the bars in various configurations and to completely satisfy you need 3 to meet the need. I'm hoping the Duo will make a good helmet light cuz for the bars there is just much more power out there...
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
    For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking


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