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  1. #1
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    New Gemini light? the Duo?

    saw this picture here: My Interbike Cherry Popped | NSMB.e.MAGAZINE - Freeride, Extreme and North Shore style Mountain Biking

    I'm interested in this light if it is a spot that could be used on the helmet. I find I just don't get the throw I'm looking for from my Xera, even with the super-spot optic... I know Gemini is in Las Vegas right now, but any info on availability (or if you need testers for the light ) would be awesome....
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  2. #2
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    This is going to be my next helmet light for sure as long as they keep the price reasonable.

    Gemini Lights 2013 Lineup on Pinkbike

    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
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    Looks pretty sweet. I'm wondering what the options will be for the optics.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekbob View Post
    Looks pretty sweet. I'm wondering what the options will be for the optics.
    I was thinking the same thing he said it has a wide beam but throws, I'm hoping its not too floody , it would be a waste otherwise. I have a olympia on my bars and a 808e on the noggin, hope this has enough punch for the helmet.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman View Post
    I was thinking the same thing he said it has a wide beam but throws, I'm hoping its not too floody , it would be a waste otherwise. I have a olympia on my bars and a 808e on the noggin, hope this has enough punch for the helmet.
    The Duo looks almost like a Gloworm X2 clone. More than likely it should have a similar beam pattern depending on what optic they chose to go with. I've yet to try my GW on the helmet ( as it is my go to bar lamp ). The thing about lamps that use optics ( vs. reflectors ) is that there is always going to be the issue of center throw intensity vs. total beam spread. As I see it reflectors seem to be able to deliver better center ( spot ) throw. This doesn't mean that optics can't work, it just means you need the right optic and enough emitters to compensate for lack of a true hot spot. Whither the Duo is able to do this is anyone's guess.

    Looks like I'm gonna have to test the Gloworm on the helmet just for curiosities sake.

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=Cat-man-do;9713744]
    Looks like I'm gonna have to test the Gloworm on the helmet just for curiosities sake.[/QUOTE

    Be careful Cat, that might end costing you some money. I did the same thing with my Olympia and now I have two!
    Mole

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=MRMOLE;9713825]
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Looks like I'm gonna have to test the Gloworm on the helmet just for curiosities sake.[/QUOTE

    Be careful Cat, that might end costing you some money. I did the same thing with my Olympia and now I have two!
    Mole
    Yeah, if I end up liking the X2 helmet mounted that will create problems. I already own two X2's but one is the version 1. The X2 (V1) is on my road rig and X2 ( V2 ) is on the MTB.

  8. #8
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    Cat,
    It's not just the amount of light produced but also the comfort level of the smaller lighthead. I know there's not much weight difference between the 808e I used to use and the Olympia/Xera that I currently run, but after a couple of hours it makes a big difference. I know your Gloworm is light and I'm betting the new Duo will be too so they should provide the same benefit.
    Mole

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    The Duo looks almost like a Gloworm X2 clone. More than likely it should have a similar beam pattern depending on what optic they chose to go with. I've yet to try my GW on the helmet ( as it is my go to bar lamp ). The thing about lamps that use optics ( vs. reflectors ) is that there is always going to be the issue of center throw intensity vs. total beam spread. As I see it reflectors seem to be able to deliver better center ( spot ) throw. This doesn't mean that optics can't work, it just means you need the right optic and enough emitters to compensate for lack of a true hot spot. Whither the Duo is able to do this is anyone's guess.

    Looks like I'm gonna have to test the Gloworm on the helmet just for curiosities sake.
    Cat, we just completed the 12hr Day Night Thriller here in NZ. All 5 riders were XC weightweenies (and representative riders ) and were kitted out with on X2 on helmet and bars. They never complained about weight but gave plenty of positive feedback about the light at speed.

    Laps were 6.5km long and they were averaging 15min per lap.

    Give it a go on the helmet.....you'll love it!

    Bruce
    Gloworm
    Gloworm Website

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  10. #10
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    More info Action is listing them already need a price for light head only got tons of battery's already?
    seeing he's asking 259.99 for a complete system I'm thinking around $139.99 for lighthead? seeing Olympias going for $159.99 as lighthead only.
    Action-LED-Lights — Gemini DUO LED light System
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman View Post
    More info Action is listing them already need a price for light head only got tons of battery's already?
    seeing he's asking 259.99 for a complete system I'm thinking around $139.99 for lighthead? seeing Olympias going for $159.99 as lighthead only.
    Action-LED-Lights — Gemini DUO LED light System
    Something caught my attention on the spec in the link. It listed the battery as a four cell 5200mah but with a runtime in high for 3hrs at high mode (1400 lumens). Can this light using the U2 be that efficient?

  12. #12
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    I prefer the lower profile helmet mount used on the Gloworm over the Gemini. I own the Gloworm and Gemini Xera (both great lights). Looks like the Gemini DUO uses the same helmet mounting as the Xera. Both the Gemini and Gloworm mounts work well and are lightweight on the helmet.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Gemini light?  the Duo?-duo2_grande.jpg  

    New Gemini light?  the Duo?-helmet-scale_600.png  


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by colleen c View Post
    Something caught my attention on the spec in the link. It listed the battery as a four cell 5200mah but with a runtime in high for 3hrs at high mode (1400 lumens). Can this light using the U2 be that efficient?
    Good point. If it truly gets 3hrs on high it has to be under-driven. The Gemini batteries are good but not that good.

    Posted by Brooks04:
    I prefer the lower profile helmet mount used on the Gloworm over the Gemini. I own the Gloworm and Gemini Xera (both great lights). Looks like the Gemini DUO uses the same helmet mounting as the Xera. Both the Gemini and Gloworm mounts work well and are lightweight on the helmet.
    Interesting that you mention this. I was fiddling with the Gloworm X2 helmet mount just yesterday. The first thing I noticed about the mount is that once you get it on it is VERY low profile and VERY adjustable. This will be the only lamp that I've used on the helmet that I can "easily adjust" while on the fly. I've yet to ride with it on the helmet but this is the week that I will give it a spin.

    FWIW, someone needs to come up with a lower profile helmet mount suitable for the O-ring mounted light systems. Like the photo that Brooks posted shows, the mounts themselves are too tall. I use an old DiNotte 200L mount. It is more of a "half pipe" approach and so is not as tall as typical " full pipe" mounts. The DiNotte also uses cam buckles rather than Velcro making it more easier to work with. Unfortunately it looks like DiNotte doesn't sell these any more. The new version is taller, more like the typical full pipe mount. Regardless, the cam strap system is way better than the Velcro stuff IMO. ( new DiNotte mount below )


  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Interesting that you mention this. I was fiddling with the Gloworm X2 helmet mount just yesterday. The first thing I noticed about the mount is that once you get it on it is VERY low profile and VERY adjustable. This will be the only lamp that I've used on the helmet that I can "easily adjust" while on the fly. I've yet to ride with it on the helmet but this is the week that I will give it a spin.

    Regardless, the cam strap system is way better than the Velcro stuff IMO.
    Hey Cat, you'll be pleased to know we've also changed the design of the helmet strap to include a small buckle to allow the velcro to be threaded and then fastened against itself.

    Bruce
    Gloworm Website

    '...it's more fun with the lites on!'

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman View Post
    More info Action is listing them already need a price for light head only got tons of battery's already?
    seeing he's asking 259.99 for a complete system I'm thinking around $139.99 for lighthead? seeing Olympias going for $159.99 as lighthead only.
    Action-LED-Lights — Gemini DUO LED light System
    Same boat here. Will be watching for the price of light head only.

    Curious how it would compare to my MS856 (872 in different housing). Any guesses?
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  16. #16
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    What I'd really like to know is whether it can be run as a super-spot. I'd really like to see X2 and Duo side-by-side beam shot comparisons similar to the trail pictures up on the lights shootout page. Or even a Duo compared to a Xera, both with spot optics. I'm looking for a spot that is a little brighter and can throw a little farther the Xera.

    Gemini? Are you out there? Any answers for us?
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by colleen c View Post
    Something caught my attention on the spec in the link. It listed the battery as a four cell 5200mah but with a runtime in high for 3hrs at high mode (1400 lumens). Can this light using the U2 be that efficient?
    [

    To acheive this runtime requires the light to be no more effecient than the new 1800 U2 Olympia. Action lists the runtime of the Olympia w/4 cell battery at 140 minutes. If you calculate the percentage difference of the lumen output and apply it to the runtime it works out to 180 minutes, or 3 hrs. In the past Gemini has been very conservative with their claimed light/battery runtimes so this seems reasonable to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by slyfink View Post
    What I'd really like to know is whether it can be run as a super-spot. I'd really like to see X2 and Duo side-by-side beam shot comparisons similar to the trail pictures up on the lights shootout page. Or even a Duo compared to a Xera, both with spot optics. I'm looking for a spot that is a little brighter and can throw a little farther the Xera.

    Gemini? Are you out there? Any answers for us?
    My biggest complaint on my Olympia is that there were no optic options. Lets hope that won't be the same on the Duo.
    Mole

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    [

    To acheive this runtime requires the light to be no more effecient than the new 1800 U2 Olympia. Action lists the runtime of the Olympia w/4 cell battery at 140 minutes. If you calculate the percentage difference of the lumen output and apply it to the runtime it works out to 180 minutes, or 3 hrs. In the past Gemini has been very conservative with their claimed light/battery runtimes so this seems reasonable to me.



    My biggest complaint on my Olympia is that there were no optic options. Lets hope that won't be the same on the Duo.
    Mole
    If all things being equal, than yeah it has to be no more efficient than the U2 Olympia based on the proportion lumens and runtime. The major variable here that changes this is that the Olympia is driving three XML while the Duo is driving two LED. It's more efficient and uses less power to drive three LED to achieve 1400 OTF lumens than it is to drive two LED to get the same OTF (unless I am wrong and I hasve been known to make mistakes ). They must have verly little or below average overall loss. I'm thinking good light optics, low loss driver or maybe even PWM in the High setting?

    I'm also interested to see what the OTF lumens will be when the body heats up and how much does the OTF drops. Most lights I tested does indeed drops with some way more than others. Guess we will find out when this is out in the market and feedback are reported from users.

    I agree that the Olympia major disadvantage was no option with the optics. This Duo might just be the answer for bridging the gap between the Xera and Olympia.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by colleen c View Post
    If all things being equal, than yeah it has to be no more efficient than the U2 Olympia based on the proportion lumens and runtime. The major variable here that changes this is that the Olympia is driving three XML while the Duo is driving two LED. It's more efficient and uses less power to drive three LED to achieve 1400 OTF lumens than it is to drive two LED to get the same OTF (unless I am wrong and I hasve been known to make mistakes ). They must have verly little or below average overall loss. I'm thinking good light optics, low loss driver or maybe even PWM in the High setting?

    I'm also interested to see what the OTF lumens will be when the body heats up and how much does the OTF drops. Most lights I tested does indeed drops with some way more than others. Guess we will find out when this is out in the market and feedback are reported from users.

    I agree that the Olympia major disadvantage was no option with the optics. This Duo might just be the answer for bridging the gap between the Xera and Olympia.
    Hopefully the below links help when looking at claimed lumens and runtime.

    We encountered the challenge of establishing the sweet spot between Runtime/Temperature/OTF lumen when we brought the X2 to market. We utilised these tools when undergoing the design stages.

    Cree Tool This tool is simply awesome. You basically select the correct variables for the emmitter you intened on using. Including junction temp, required lumens and optical/electronic efficiency. It then pumps out how many LEDs and at what current you need to acheive the deisred outcome. It also provides watts (heat) produced. In our experience this tool is very close to actual testing.

    LED runtime tool This one basically gives runtime based on all common factors. Once again, the theoretical needs to be taken with the actual, but once again we have been very close in testing.

    Cree XML Data Sheet This obviously helps with the variables when entering data into the above sheets.

    Bruce and Vag
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    Last edited by Gloworm Manufacture; 09-24-2012 at 06:43 PM.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gloworm Manufacture View Post
    Hey Cat, you'll be pleased to know we've also changed the design of the helmet strap to include a small buckle to allow the velcro to be threaded and then fastened against itself.

    Bruce
    HA!...Nice. I beat you to the punch though as I already had a spare ( buckled Velcro strap ) laying around. Having a buckle to help tighten it down is really needed. The only problem is some of these straps ( with plastic buckles ) are poorly made. Tighten them too tight and either the strap or the buckle will break. One of the ( plastic ) buckles on one of my battery bags broke as well. The Chinese don't do plastic very well.

    Later this week I plan on skipping over to REI to see what they have laying around. They should have an array of sizes to chose from.

  21. #21
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    So is this a thread about the New Duo light or Glowworm
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman View Post
    So is this a thread about the New Duo light or Glowworm
    Definitely about the Duo, and for the record it looks like a great little unit

    I was just attempting to provide the readers with some resources that may help them when discussing runtimes, lumens etc.
    Gloworm Website

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  23. #23
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    [QUOTE=colleen c;9719587]
    Guess we will find out when this is out in the market and feedback are reported from users.

    Taking information off one of your old posts, you got 245 minutes runtime out of a 6 cell on your Olympia (16% beyond Gemini's claim for the T-6 Olympia). Today I ran a 4 cell test and got 143 minutes (19% above Gemini's claim for the T-6 Olympia) just to back-up my "Gemini conservative runtime claim". I know there are lots of variables comparing one light to another and I picked the Olympia because I figured it would be the most consistant in regards to optic/driver quality and manufacturer cliams. Yes, we're all just guessing at this and I based my optimistic opinion on Gemini's reputation and past performance quality.
    Mole

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    Hi there,

    I just ordered the Gemini XERA for my lid and want to compliment it with a nice light for my bar. I had my mind made up with the XML3 but then the Gemini DUO is now available. Can anyone recommend which one would be better for me??

    It will be for XC riding....some of the riding in the area is technical rooty hilly trails

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lizaloo View Post
    Hi there,

    I just ordered the Gemini XERA for my lid and want to compliment it with a nice light for my bar. I had my mind made up with the XML3 but then the Gemini DUO is now available. Can anyone recommend which one would be better for me??

    It will be for XC riding....some of the riding in the area is technical rooty hilly trails
    You cannot go wrong with a Olympia... For the last few years I have been searching for the perfect bar IE flood light and it meets every criteria Blinding goodness + plenty of throw... I have tried 2 xmls on the bars in various configurations and to completely satisfy you need 3 to meet the need. I'm hoping the Duo will make a good helmet light cuz for the bars there is just much more power out there...
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
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  26. #26
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    I just tried to order a duo lighthead only and it says sold out WTF??? come on Action I kind of doubt you are already sold out.
    Last edited by Rakuman; 09-26-2012 at 09:57 PM.
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  27. #27
    Action LED Lights
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman View Post
    I just tried to order a duo lighthead only and it says sold old WTF??? come on Action I kind of doubt you are already sold out.
    I'm not quite sure why the website is giving that message. I'll look into it tomorrow. The real situation is that they have not yet arrived. Gemini has not yet promised me a ship date. I'll keep you informed.
    Jim Harger
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Action LED Lights View Post
    I'm not quite sure why the website is giving that message. I'll look into it tomorrow. The real situation is that they have not yet arrived. Gemini has not yet promised me a ship date. I'll keep you informed.
    Great Thanks I'm definitely planning a on getting one of these so let us know when they will be available.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Action LED Lights View Post
    I'm not quite sure why the website is giving that message. I'll look into it tomorrow. The real situation is that they have not yet arrived. Gemini has not yet promised me a ship date. I'll keep you informed.
    Is the Duo going to have optic options?
    Mole

  30. #30
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    Hi Mole,

    We have a few optics options at the moment, but none that really blows our mind. We will be sticking with the current optic we are using as these produce the best beams. Take a look at our beam shot page.

  31. #31
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    looking at your beamshots it looks like you are getting as much throw as the Xera with a reflector but Dang that puppy is blinding
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  32. #32
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    The Duo looks like I nice lamp. From what I could tell from the beam shot the output/beam pattern looks very much like the Gloworm X2.. no surprise there I suppose.
    To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if they were both using the same optic. Too bad there isn't a good sub-10° optic. ( or maybe there is? ) Something like that might create more forward throw and a more intense hot spot for helmet use.

    Rakuman, Keep the faith guy. We'll find the perfect helmet light one day. For the time being I still think you're going to have a hard time finding something that can compliment your Olympia. With something as bright as the Olympia you don't need any more flood, you need super throw.

    In keeping with that thought, someone might try designing a helmet lamp around the new XPE-2's. A three or four emitter set-up ( with the right sized reflector ) could possible yield a lamp small enough for the helmet yet still throw an intense spot.. Kaidoman has a 3-up XPG R5 ( below ) that might be interesting if it is a thrower. If it was maybe convert it to XPE-2 and make it a super thrower...ideas, ideas...


  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini Lights View Post
    Hi Mole,

    We have a few optics options at the moment, but none that really blows our mind. We will be sticking with the current optic we are using as these produce the best beams. Take a look at our beam shot page.
    I'm a little confused. In the "whats in the box" section of your Due web page it says "standard plus narrow optic". I didn't seen any beam shots so I guess it is a typo but I'm hopeing it's not.
    Mole

  34. #34
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    Yukon winter

    Great thread and good solid info as i just ordered my Duo with 4 cell from Gemini as a helmet lite for winter riding on my Salsa BG. I will start with this and see what I might add down the road as I was close to ordering something like their Olympia. Would love to hear more from the folks at Gemini as to what to watch for in the very near future with respect to inter changing lenses? I was led to believe that there were 2 different ones coming with my Duo?

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    I'm a little confused. In the "whats in the box" section of your Due web page it says "standard plus narrow optic". I didn't seen any beam shots so I guess it is a typo but I'm hopeing it's not.
    Mole
    My guess is the Duo listing started with a copy and paste from the Xera and that got missed in the editing process.
    It's been corrected.
    Jim Harger
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  36. #36
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    Gemini I am on the fence right now Ive spent some time looking at your Beamshots, you used to have comparisan shot of a 808E and an Xera That link is dead now, If I remember right the Xera was brighter than and almost had as much punch as the 808e. That is the light I compare all other helmet lights to at the moment. Could you re post that comparison with the 808E again? it would go a long ways for me to decide if this light is Helmet suitable.
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  37. #37
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    Rakuman,
    I can tell you this much. The XERA with the spot optic has more throw than the MJ-808E. The shots you saw previously were with the stock optic. Not to mention it is only half the size and weight of the MJ-808E.
    The new DUO weights only slightly more (63g vs 52g) and should have about the same throw as the XERA but more spread with it's 15 degree optics.
    Remember too that the driver circuit in all Gemini light is very efficient, giving you more run-time for a given amount of battery. The benefit of using 2 XML's lightly driven really shows up if you look at the stated run times of the XERA at 850 lumens vs the DUO turned down to 60% (840 lumens). It's 540 minutes vs 240 minutes. (I can't wait to test this myself)
    Jim Harger
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Action LED Lights View Post
    Rakuman,
    I can tell you this much. The XERA with the spot optic has more throw than the MJ-808E. The shots you saw previously were with the stock optic.
    That's exactly why I want to see that comparison shot the throw on the stock Xera at 16 degrees should be real close to what the Duo can produce at 15 degrees but brighter. and if the 16 degree Xera has more punch than the 808E the duo would blow the 808E away, please post that 808 picture if you have it.
    As Cat-man-do earlier commented we here are looking for a perfect helmet light, Personally I think the Olympia has the bars covered hands down and Ive tried a lot of lights
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
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  39. #39
    Yukon Rider
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    For those bar mounting the Olympia how do you think the Duo will compliment this? I am wondering how many of you have experience with snow bounce with bar and head mounted lights tested? Are 2 lights overkill?
    Also any thoughts on actual battery life? I just spoke to a fellow here in Whitehorse using a Magicshine and his battery crapped out after less then 1 year use? How are the Gemini batteries holding up? thx

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman View Post
    That's exactly why I want to see that comparison shot the throw on the stock Xera at 16 degrees should be real close to what the Duo can produce at 15 degrees but brighter. and if the 16 degree Xera has more punch than the 808E the duo would blow the 808E away, please post that 808 picture if you have it.
    As Cat-man-do earlier commented we here are looking for a perfect helmet light, Personally I think the Olympia has the bars covered hands down and Ive tried a lot of lights
    Rakuman, I do have my beamshot of the Xera with the standard 16 degree optic(so call standard back then), reflector and the 14 degree optic that was so call the prototype back when it first came out. The beamshot is in the same park that I use for all my beamshot. I think I also have the MS 808E XML taken at the same time when I did the test for the 14 degree (prototype) optic that was sent to me for testing. If interested, I can located that folder and link some photo if you desired.

  41. #41
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    [QUOTE=Action LED Lights; The benefit of using 2 XML's lightly driven really shows up if you look at the stated run times of the XERA at 850 lumens vs the DUO turned down to 60% (840 lumens). It's 540 minutes vs 240 minutes. (I can't wait to test this myself)[/QUOTE]

    Hi Jim,
    I noticed a typo on the runtime minutes for the Duo. Instead of 540 min. it should be 340 min., which is still about 30% more efficient than the Xera if Gemini is accurate with their 10% step power settings and runtimes.

    Do you know if the Due has a seperate optic for each emitter or is it one big optic like the Olympia?

    Mole

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by colleen c View Post
    Rakuman, I do have my beamshot of the Xera with the standard 16 degree optic(so call standard back then), reflector and the 14 degree optic that was so call the prototype back when it first came out. The beamshot is in the same park that I use for all my beamshot. I think I also have the MS 808E XML taken at the same time when I did the test for the 14 degree (prototype) optic that was sent to me for testing. If interested, I can located that folder and link some photo if you desired.

    That would be Great !
    Thanks
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  43. #43
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    Hi Rakuman.

    We've made a special page on our website for you. It won't be available to the general public through our menus but only through the link found here on MTBR. We like using our web gallery to compare beam shots rather than making animated GIFs.. because you lose a lot of the shot quality through GIFs. So we apologize that you can't see the beam shots here on MTBR, but just click the link below to view the comparison.

    Also we took it one step further and compared the DUO to the MJ-880 2000 lumen light. Everyone knows the MJ-880 is like two MJ-808Es put together.

    Link: Gemini Lights vs Other Competitors


  44. #44
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    Rakuman, here are some beam sample I had in my old photobucket album. Please keep in mind that the title are still list the optics as standard which is the original 16 degree and the picture title as prototype are the 14 degree optics. Standard MTBR setting used. The aim point was at the tree at 200ft and about 15 to 20ft above the ground, there are soda bottle at 100ft mark.

    Magicshine XML 808E:
    http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/...L200ft2563.jpg

    Xera with 16 degree optics (standard)
    http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/...c200ft2570.jpg

    Xera with 14 degree optics (prototype)
    http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/...c200ft2582.jpg

    More can be found in this album where they are located. Hope this help.
    Xera new 14 degree prototype optic pictures by Colleenlc - Photobucket

  45. #45
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    Thanks for the beamshots Colleen and Gemini. While I don't think this is going to be a super thrower I do think it will make up for it in the smoothness and intensity in its beam.
    While Geminis path beamshots are nice and give you a representation as you are in a forest. I dont think they give a true representation of what these lights can really do. Colleens open field shots with know targets allow you to see truly how much punch a light has and its spread.
    That said Action expect a preorder from me.
    Gemini if you put a spots in this light I think you would have a hit....
    Last edited by Rakuman; 09-30-2012 at 08:27 AM.
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
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  46. #46
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    Unfortunately I did not know Action existed out of US and ordered DUO direct from China. It will be here mid week via TNT shipping for 12$ Cdn. Looking forward to owning a real light for this winters riding. Also posting of beam shots really helped me get a sense of what these amazing lights are capable of. thx

  47. #47
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    1400 theoretical lumens in such a small package - would be great if it was possible to provide adequate thermal management - would have to be a terribly inefficient option.
    You get either light (photons) or heat....too much heat... no light.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman View Post
    While I don't think this is going to be a super thrower I do think it will make up for it in the smoothness and intensity in its beam.

    This seems to work for me. I run an Olympia on the bars and switch between a Xera and an Olympia for helmet use. In most situations I prefer the Olympia but a little extra throw would be nice.

    Gemini if you put a spots in this light I think you would have a hit....
    I agree 100%

    Mole

  49. #49
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    I noticed that Action-LED-Lights has a sale on duo's and other Gemini products. First time I've seen a lighthead price ($116).

    I don't know how I made my last post look the way it did but the second paragraph in the quote box is actually my response to the first paragraph.
    Mole

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    I noticed that Action-LED-Lights has a sale on duo's and other Gemini products. First time I've seen a lighthead price ($116).
    Thanks for the heads up. Think I'll pull the trigger on this for that price.

    Anyone have some thoughts on how this Duo might compare to the MS 856 (872 clone in different housing).

    I run the 856 on the bars with a Xera on the helmet with a 2 cell. Maybe the Duo would be better on the helmet? Thoughts
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Thanks for the heads up. Think I'll pull the trigger on this for that price.

    Anyone have some thoughts on how this Duo might compare to the MS 856 (872 clone in different housing).

    I run the 856 on the bars with a Xera on the helmet with a 2 cell. Maybe the Duo would be better on the helmet? Thoughts
    Helmet!! not a fan of double xmls on the bars been there done that.
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
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  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    The Duo looks almost like a Gloworm X2 clone. More than likely it should have a similar beam pattern depending on what optic they chose to go with. I've yet to try my GW on the helmet ( as it is my go to bar lamp ). The thing about lamps that use optics ( vs. reflectors ) is that there is always going to be the issue of center throw intensity vs. total beam spread. As I see it reflectors seem to be able to deliver better center ( spot ) throw. This doesn't mean that optics can't work, it just means you need the right optic and enough emitters to compensate for lack of a true hot spot. Whither the Duo is able to do this is anyone's guess.

    Looks like I'm gonna have to test the Gloworm on the helmet just for curiosities sake.
    How could it be a Gloworm clone when the gloworm is a Lupine Piko clone? Just sayin'...
    "It looks flexy"

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman View Post
    Helmet!! not a fan of double xmls on the bars been there done that.
    Could you expand on that a bit about the double XML's on the bar (so I don't have to dig through your posts ) FWIW I almost never run my 856 over the #2 setting.

    Honestly I was thinking helmet myself IF it throws further than the Xera with the spot (which I have not tried yet but will tonight). Jim from Action LED said the Duo will have a slightly wider beam than the Xera which is fine as long as it throws further. Even with a 2 cell it should be fine with run time and I also have a spare 2 cell I can carry if needed.
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  54. #54
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    Honestly I was thinking helmet myself IF it throws further than the Xera with the spot (which I have not tried yet but will tonight). Jim from Action LED said the Duo will have a slightly wider beam than the Xera which is fine as long as it throws further. Even with a 2 cell it should be fine with run time and I also have a spare 2 cell I can carry if needed.[/QUOTE]

    If you get on the Gemini website and click on "Explore" @ the top of the page, and then click on "Light tests and beam shots" it shows beamshots of all Gemini's lights and optic options. I'm not sure you'll get more throw from the Due than the spot Xera, but to me it looks braoder and more useful at max throw. If your interested in more throw let Gemini know. If we show enough interest it might help convince Gemini to offer a spot optic option on this light.
    Mole

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    If you get on the Gemini website and click on "Explore" @ the top of the page, and then click on "Light tests and beam shots" it shows beamshots of all Gemini's lights and optic options. I'm not sure you'll get more throw from the Due than the spot Xera, but to me it looks braoder and more useful at max throw. If your interested in more throw let Gemini know. If we show enough interest it might help convince Gemini to offer a spot optic option on this light.
    Mole
    Mole, that's a good page to look at and how they laid it out to compare. Thanks

    Looks nice with a bit more throw and certainly better in the 840 setting vs the 850 setting of the Xera. Decisions decisions...

    Here's the link for others to look at.
    Light Tests & Beam Shots | Gemini Lights
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  56. #56
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    Got one on order and will give a basic review when I get it. rumors of a spot lens being considered
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
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  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman View Post
    Got one on order and will give a basic review when I get it. rumors of a spot lens being considered
    Ordered one as well for the $116 price (just the light head and o-rings).
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

  58. #58
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    "AVAILABLE OCT. 8th! Pre-orders being accepted
    For got to factor in National Day holiday all week in China. Projected arrival now Oct. 15th"

    Aaarrrggggh! Toss in a spot lens and we'll call it even.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmcttr View Post
    "AVAILABLE OCT. 8th! Pre-orders being accepted
    For got to factor in National Day holiday all week in China. Projected arrival now Oct. 15th"

    Aaarrrggggh! Toss in a spot lens and we'll call it even.
    Gemini always does this. Considering how well they do everything else I'm not going to complain. Like you I'll just say Aaarrrgggh and be happy when I get my light. I've been switching between the Xera and Olympia for a helmet light but I think this light will better suit my needs. Besides I already own (2) Titans, (1) Xera, and (2) Olympia's and I need to complete the set.
    Mole

  60. #60
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    I'm going to be getting the Duo with the 2-cell battery kit. I'm planning to mount it on the helmet, paired with my MJ-872 on the bars. Run time is a little low with the 2-cell (1.5 hours on 100%), but it should suffice as I generally only run the bar light at 50% for climbing. My main motivation is to get the whole setup on the helmet so I don't have to worry about cords anymore!
    "Got everything you need?"

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmcttr View Post
    "AVAILABLE OCT. 8th! Pre-orders being accepted
    For got to factor in National Day holiday all week in China. Projected arrival now Oct. 15th"

    Aaarrrggggh! Toss in a spot lens and we'll call it even.
    We may get them a little sooner...."IN STOCK AND READY FOR IMMEDIATE SHIPMENT."

    Does immediate mean today?

    Yes, I'm impatient as always.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmcttr View Post
    We may get them a little sooner...."IN STOCK AND READY FOR IMMEDIATE SHIPMENT."

    Does immediate mean today?

    Yes, I'm impatient as always.
    That's good news Ive been counting down the days
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
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  63. #63
    Action LED Lights
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmcttr View Post
    We may get them a little sooner...."IN STOCK AND READY FOR IMMEDIATE SHIPMENT."

    Does immediate mean today?

    Yes, I'm impatient as always.
    Yes, that means Today

    They are out for delivery with DHL so I'm not sure what time but we will work late to make sure they are out the door before we go home.
    (I'm getting a new bike today too so that's a real sacrifice putting off setting it up for a first ride.)
    Jim Harger
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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Action LED Lights View Post
    ...(I'm getting a new bike today too so that's a real sacrifice putting off setting it up for a first ride.)
    Thanks for "taking one for the team"

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Action LED Lights View Post
    Yes, that means Today

    They are out for delivery with DHL so I'm not sure what time but we will work late to make sure they are out the door before we go home.
    (I'm getting a new bike today too so that's a real sacrifice putting off setting it up for a first ride.)
    Yippee...a nice surprise for sure

    Jim, what bike did you get?


    I'm going to be getting the Duo with the 2-cell battery kit. I'm planning to mount it on the helmet, paired with my MJ-872 on the bars. Run time is a little low with the 2-cell (1.5 hours on 100%), but it should suffice as I generally only run the bar light at 50% for climbing. My main motivation is to get the whole setup on the helmet so I don't have to worry about cords anymore!
    Cool, we'll be running the same setup (well, I have the 856 version of the 872). Love the little 2 cell and don't really notice it at all on the back of the helmet. Not concerned about run time with the Duo but I do have a spare 2 cell for longer rides or if it becomes an issue which I doubt.
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  66. #66
    Action LED Lights
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Yippee...a nice surprise for sure

    Jim, what bike did you get?
    Got a refresh on my road bike since my Trek Madone got swiped out of my garage.
    At least my Home-Owners insurance covered it.

    Got myself a Motobecane Le Champion Ti Inferno
    Jim Harger
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  67. #67
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    True to his word...

    Shipping confirmation for my Duo received!

    Thanks Jim
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    Just got an email today with the tracking number

    Lets hope it gets here monday so I can charge it up for the Tuesday Nights ride.

    I can't tell you how excited I am

  69. #69
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    One on the way!!!! I think paired with the Olyimpia that my search may be over...
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  70. #70
    TCW
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    Anyone received their Duo and tried it? I gots to know !!!

  71. #71
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    I'd like to know how well it works with a geomangear pack. My Xera's didn't co-operate with the voltage cutoff and would shut down or flash after just have the pack was used. Maybe the Duo doesn't do that?
    "It looks flexy"

  72. #72
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    Just unwrapped mine dang this thing is small
    More to come
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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCW View Post
    Anyone received their Duo and tried it? I gots to know !!!
    Possibly tonight. Heading to my PO Box now to hopefully find it waiting.
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  74. #74
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  75. #75
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    Its light enough you can move it to the front of your helmet this thing is SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! tonight's ride will be the true test
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    That looks pretty sweet. I would get one but I'm not buying any light stuff until I finish building up a frame and fork I recently bought (SC Heckler/RS Revelation). Maybe I'll get next year's duo.

    I'm anxious to hear how it works. I love my Xera and Olympia.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay View Post
    I'd like to know how well it works with a geomangear pack. My Xera's didn't co-operate with the voltage cutoff and would shut down or flash after just have the pack was used. Maybe the Duo doesn't do that?
    I wouldn't get my hopes up. I had 2 geoman 6.0 batteries that did the same thing with my Xera and Olympia. You can use up more of the batteries capacity if you set the power output of the light down but I don't think you'll ever use all the battery capacity like you can with a magicshine lighthead.

    USPS tracking info says I should get my Duo today. Time permitting I'll take it out with my Xera/Olympia and see how they all compare.
    Mole

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    Hmmm, well let us know Mr. Mole. I might try the glow worm because of that issue.
    "It looks flexy"

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    I wouldn't get my hopes up. I had 2 geoman 6.0 batteries that did the same thing with my Xera and Olympia. You can use up more of the batteries capacity if you set the power output of the light down but I don't think you'll ever use all the battery capacity like you can with a magicshine lighthead.

    USPS tracking info says I should get my Duo today. Time permitting I'll take it out with my Xera/Olympia and see how they all compare.
    Mole
    Ive been running my Olympia on Geoman 6.0s and haven't experienced any issues. But my rides are usually around hour and a half. and only run it on high for downhills . I'm going to do a fan rundown test right now just to check....
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
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  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman View Post
    Ive been running my Olympia on Geoman 6.0s and haven't experienced any issues. But my rides are usually around hour and a half. and only run it on high for downhills . I'm going to do a fan rundown test right now just to check....
    I looked up one of my old posts on the Olympia thread where I got 1.5 hours of runtime on high which would explain why you never noticed any issues on your rides. I hooked up an 808e lighthead to the same battery after the Olympia shut down and it ran another hour and fourty minutes. I think doing a rundown test on your equipment is an excellent idea just to know where you stand. You'd probably be able to get home on a lower power level but it might ruin your downhill run.
    Mole

  81. #81
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    Ok did a 3 hour rundown test with Geoman 6.0 batterys had to stop to recharge so I could use the batteries tonight.
    Olympia on high at 100 min started flashing red and powered dimmed I shut it down and unplugged and replugged to reset and was able to get another 60 minutes at 60% setting which is more than enough light for most trails. at 3 hours it was still running at its dimmed setting.
    Duo at 3 hours it was still running strong on high. battery meter was showing red.
    I have noticed with Geomans batteries no power meter on any of my lights were accurate so I'm sure you could easily get another half hour out of it...
    so if you want to use Geoman batteries with an Olympia when it dims down just unplug to reset and run it at no more than half power to get the most out of these batteries...,
    and I see zero issues using them with the DUO



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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    I hooked up an 808e lighthead to the same battery after the Olympia shut down and it ran another hour and fourty minutes.
    Mole
    The ticket seems to be not to overload the circuit when it starts to get low after reseting it if I turned it to high it would trigger a dim down and redflash but at 60% it was fine:
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
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  83. #83
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    That's actually good news - you have issues with the same lights we had but not with the Duo. I'm tempted...
    "It looks flexy"

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay View Post
    Hmmm, well let us know Mr. Mole. I might try the glow worm because of that issue.
    If I get my light today I want to take it out for a test. I'll be glad to do a rundown test with the Goeman battery for you but I hope tomorrow is OK.
    Mole

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    If I get my light today I want to take it out for a test. I'll be glad to do a rundown test with the Goeman battery for you but I hope tomorrow is OK.
    Mole
    No rush for me!
    "It looks flexy"

  86. #86
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    Used mine tonight for a quick ride. It's REAL nice. Used the headband. Spot is good....not super concentrated, but not washed out either. I think it will work great for me. Thanks to Jim at Action!

    Edit: Oh yeah, I also used the headband mount to finish mowing the yard tonight. LOL.
    Last edited by herrhaus; 10-16-2012 at 06:29 AM.
    No blogs here, nothing special.....I just like to ride my bike.

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    No time for a ride tonight, but I got to play a bit in the woods with the DUO and my XERA (spot lens).

    My first impression is the DUO has a bit more throw than the XERA with a wider beam and not much light wasted on side spill.

    I had hoped it would work well for me as either a helmet light with a MS-872 on the bar or as a bar light with the XERA on my helmet.

    I think it will be perfect used in either application.

  88. #88
    Action LED Lights
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay View Post
    Hmmm, well let us know Mr. Mole. I might try the glow worm because of that issue.
    The issue is not with the light but with the battery pack that is limited in the current it can deliver. As the battery wears down the voltage drops and the current goes up. Geomangear used an overabundance of caution when specking the pack and pretty much limited them to the lights they were selling at the time. Newer high output lights top out these packs when they are far from there full capacity.
    Here is a chart showing the behavior of the Geomangear 4.5Ah battery under different loads. I'm currently doing the same test on a 6.0Ah one.
    The current draw on high of each of the lights we sell (at 100% and 7.4v) can be seen HERE

    Jim Harger
    Action LED Lights
    www.action-led-lights.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Action LED Lights View Post
    The issue is not with the light but with the battery pack that is limited in the current it can deliver. As the battery wears down the voltage drops and the current goes up. Geomangear used an overabundance of caution when specking the pack and pretty much limited them to the lights they were selling at the time. Newer high output lights top out these packs when they are far from there full capacity.
    Here is a chart showing the behavior of the Geomangear 4.5Ah battery under different loads. I'm currently doing the same test on a 6.0Ah one.
    The current draw on high of each of the lights we sell (at 100% and 7.4v) can be seen HERE
    You are 100 percent correct Jim. Its the battery not the light....Geomans battery while well built they are way too sensitive remember a lot of chargers wouldn't work with them. I myself have 6 of the 6.0s and depending on what light I'm using, I have to remember what the actual runtimes are rather than rely on the battery meters.
    I really dig this Duo its finally getting dark here in So Cal so time to take it for a spin...
    Last edited by Rakuman; 10-16-2012 at 07:58 AM.
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
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    So if I'm understanding the charts correctly, the XERA, DUO and even the Olympia should use most of the Geoman battery's capacity while the MJ-872 can only be expected to get use of about 70% of the capacity.

    Or do I need additional education? Thanks for the info Jim.
    Last edited by gmcttr; 10-15-2012 at 07:11 PM.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmcttr View Post
    So if I'm understanding the charts correctly, the XERA, DUO and even the Olympia should use most of the Geoman battery's capacity while the MJ-872 can only be expected to get about 70% of the capacity.

    I do I need additional education? Thanks for the info Jim.
    The graph is capacity at constant current. What I really need is constant power which would be close the what a light pulls. In actual use the current rises as the voltage goes down. I think temperature plays a role in these pack cutting out also. (Heat created by the current)
    Jim Harger
    Action LED Lights
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    Got it...my interpretation is a little off. Thanks

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    O.K. I wasn't feeling too hot after dinner so I took a quick cruise out to the orange groves to test this puppy out on some long paths with trees on both sides that gave me a good Idea how much punch it has. first impression Was Nice Really Nice!
    I paired it with my Olympia on the bars and I was afraid that the Olympia was going to drown it out, NOT! Opposite this thing has pretty good punch, I had to keep turning my Olympia on and off to make sure it was on high,, this light can throw. Its a perfect combo for the Olympia. Its going to take me a while to get used to not having a hotspot like a 808e, I took the Duo and a 808e out and pointed them both at some tree's 200 yards away the duo seemed to have more punch but with a much smoother wider pattern.
    While it looks like it is going to be a great light as is I still yearn for some spot lens.
    Nice job Gemini
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
    For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking


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    Had mine out tonight for approx 1.5 hours. Part of that was in the rain (no problems BTW) which just sucks up light but I like it....allot. Didn't mess with any programming, just put it on the helmet right out of the box. I have a MS 856 on the bars.

    Xera on steroids is how I'd best describe it (I have 2 of those). Smooth beam pattern, bit wider than the Xera and a little more throw. Punch like Rakuman mentioned is a good description. I had it running on my 2 cell and kept it in the medium setting almost the entire ride. I'd cycle it to low at stops. Near the end I ran it at high and yowza, that was really impressive. Most of the rides I do are about 2 hours so I may bump the medium setting from 60% to 80% where it's supposed to run for 2 hours on the 2 cell. I'll do a run test to check. Button was still green at rides end but it stays green from 100% down to 20% before changing to amber and then red at 10%.

    Nice little light and another winner I think for Gemini. Should be out again tomorrow night for another test.
    2013 Banshee Spitfire V2 650b

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    Man-- im stuck between the duo and the gloworm... Is there a remote switch that can be used for the duo like the gloworm has? I like the idea of using a switch that is away from the light head so the head doesnt get bumped out of alignment each time you want to change light intensity.. The switch for the duo is that little white button in the back-- right?..

  96. #96
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    Not to cast any bad light on the Duo (pardon the pun), but while I'm impressed with the light itself, I'm not impressed with the helmet mount. It was a bugger to get strapped onto my helmet and get it cinched down tight. I have no idea why they didn't put a loop on the strap and reverse the end of the velcro strap so that it could be cinched tight (FAIL). I ended up cutting a large portion of the velcro strap off to get it to fit onto my Specialized helmet. Other than that issue, the light is really nice.
    No blogs here, nothing special.....I just like to ride my bike.

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by herrhaus View Post
    Not to cast any bad light on the Duo (pardon the pun), but while I'm impressed with the light itself, I'm not impressed with the helmet mount. It was a bugger to get strapped onto my helmet and get it cinched down tight. I have no idea why they didn't put a loop on the strap and reverse the end of the velcro strap so that it could be cinched tight (FAIL). I ended up cutting a large portion of the velcro strap off to get it to fit onto my Specialized helmet. Other than that issue, the light is really nice.
    herrhaus, the way it's set up you cinch down each side separately. I find it's best to pull the pads out of the helmet first because the straps want to stick to the pads. Pass the straps through a vent and then back up through the other slot on the mount. Then pull both sides tight together and stick them down.
    Though it shows a MS helmet mount these instructions illustrate the idea. HELMET MOUNT INST.
    Jim Harger
    Action LED Lights
    www.action-led-lights.com

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by herrhaus View Post
    ...I ended up cutting a large portion of the velcro strap off...
    Quote Originally Posted by Action LED Lights View Post
    ...Though it shows a MS helmet mount these instructions illustrate the idea. HELMET MOUNT INST.
    Opps! You may have cut a little too quickly

  99. #99
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    Thanks Jim. I did remove the pads inside the helmet. I fussed and fiddled with it last night for 1/2 hour before I ended up cutting the straps down (I cut about 2" off each side)...it's on there now...and it's tight. So, I'm all set. While I may be an engineer....for some reason, I couldn't figure that out last night. Oh well. Like I said, it's there now and it's tight, so I'm all set. And, the straps don't block the vents either.

    Thursday, I'm planning a 2+ hour night ride, so, it will get tested out at that point.
    Last edited by herrhaus; 10-16-2012 at 08:10 AM.
    No blogs here, nothing special.....I just like to ride my bike.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Action LED Lights View Post
    The issue is not with the light but with the battery pack that is limited in the current it can deliver. As the battery wears down the voltage drops and the current goes up. Geomangear used an overabundance of caution when specking the pack and pretty much limited them to the lights they were selling at the time. Newer high output lights top out these packs when they are far from there full capacity.
    Here is a chart showing the behavior of the Geomangear 4.5Ah battery under different loads. I'm currently doing the same test on a 6.0Ah one.
    The current draw on high of each of the lights we sell (at 100% and 7.4v) can be seen HERE
    Thanks for that info! I always figured the runtime on my 872 was due to the higher cutoff built into those Geoman packs. So if I'm reading the charts right, the 872 pulls 2.2A and cuts off with about 1000mah still in the pack? I'm actually using the 6.0Ah pack with the 872, but I'm assuming it's the same circuitry.

    To get back on topic, how does the Duo compare in throw distance to the MJ808e?
    "Got everything you need?"

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