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  1. #1
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    New Dinotte XML-3, replaces 800L-Plus

    Looks nice.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Dinotte XML-3, replaces 800L-Plus-screen-shot-2011-09-01-1.28.23-pm.jpg  

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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post
    Looks nice.
    Great to see some commercial 3 XML lights hitting the scene, but only 1000 lumens?!

    But I've said it before and it saddens me to have to say it yet again... Dinotte's web site sucks. As a previous customer I won't argue that they had great products but they haven't a clue how to market them. It still amazes me why, year after year, they never have pictures of their latest lights prominently displayed.

    Someone with some web design skills and a digital camera help these guys out, please!
    Last edited by kwarwick; 09-04-2011 at 03:59 PM.

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    I cant agree more,their XPG version of the 800L+ was poorly advertised and most people didn't even know they upgraded their leds. I am surprised however that they have a XML lamp head out already. If they would just quit been so stubborn and make a larger battery they could drive their lights harder and compete with others. That tripple XML even underdriven should be 1400+ lumens but wont have much run time with the never ending 4 cell Dinotte battery.

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    I asked Rob about a 6 cell battery, he cited low demand and cost would be too high, that they have low prices on the 4 cell because it is their main battery.

    I don't see this myself, I think with big powerful lights comes a need for bigger batteries. They already have a 2 cell and 4 cell, I should think that they could keep costs down on a 6 cell since it would be made of the same cells as the other batteries. Just don't see that it should be a party breaker.

    As someone who just ordered a 1200L-Plus I would have happily ordered it with a 6 cell if that were an option.
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    That does look nice.

    //I'm still pretty happy with my 200L Dual setup I got ~4 years ago.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwarwick View Post
    Great to see some commercial 3 XML lights hitting the scene, but only 1000 lumens?!

    But I've said it before and it saddens me to have to say it again... Dinotte's web site sucks. As a previous customer I won't argue that they had great products but they haven't a clue how to market them. It still amazing me why, year after year they never have pictures of their latest lights prominently displayed.

    Someone with some web design skills and a digital camera help these guys out, please!
    Usually I'm very critical of the new DiNotte stuff. However this XM-L (3) I find very interesting. This light head is tailor made for people who want a bright light with a small footprint, somewhere around 1000 lumen but don't want a Chinese clone light. Yes the light is under-driven but this time ( unlike the 1200L+ ) it makes more sense due to the size. If you want 3 x XM-L's driven to the max you will need a larger battery and a larger light head to dissipate the heat. This new offering from DiNotte looks like the perfect compromise in a compact product. If it is a "True 1000 lumen "lamp, it should do well as long as the beam tint is not too blue/green/yellow...etc...and the beam pattern a good mix of flood and throw. Can't wait to see some user beam pics. I figure the run time on high to be somewhere around 2.5hr using the standard 4-cell. Can't wait to see these in a shootout. The light head is $200 for people who already have the battery and charger. *I think I'd buy one of these over one of the new Niterider 1500 even if the Niterider was brighter. ( * that is if NR is still putting the drivers in the battery ) SO....are there any beam pics of these lights yet?

  7. #7
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    Looks like a good candidate for a helmet light except for the stupid o-ring mount. I have a 200L that i used on my helmet recently when my Stenlight battery crapped out. What a pain in the ass it is to adjust the beam up or down compared to a hinged mount! Looks like they had a good mount with the 600L. Why they have gone back to o-rings and rubber straps is beyond me. Must be a rubber fetish. I've got to agree on the website too. Pretty lame. But not as lame as Stenlight's site that hasn't been updated in about 5 years. StenLight - Advanced Lighting Products They are also even more clueless about marketing. They make a tough light though, just a little behind the times on emitters. They are fixated on Luxeons for some reason.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titus Maximus View Post
    Looks like a good candidate for a helmet light except for the stupid o-ring mount. I have a 200L that i used on my helmet recently when my Stenlight battery crapped out. What a pain in the ass it is to adjust the beam up or down compared to a hinged mount! Looks like they had a good mount with the 600L. Why they have gone back to o-rings and rubber straps is beyond me. Must be a rubber fetish. I've got to agree on the website too. Pretty lame. But not as lame as Stenlight's site that hasn't been updated in about 5 years. StenLight - Advanced Lighting Products They are also even more clueless about marketing. They make a tough light though, just a little behind the times on emitters. They are fixated on Luxeons for some reason.
    I think you mean SSC but yes I think that is over as Cree is the apparent reining ruler for most bike set-ups.....Still, you're right about the rubber mount stuff as it is a PITA. I was however able to get good use out of my 200L helmet mount by using it with my MS 808E. I had to use a couple different sized O-rings but it works and works well. The locking strap system on the helmet mount works well and was a well thought out design. Once you get the light head aimed right it pretty much stays in place but I miss the days of easy tilt-able lamps though. The Marwi's and the DiNotte 600L had great mounts.

    I wonder if you'll be able to adapt the new XML-3 to the older 600L mounts?

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    Slightly off topic, but after maybe 6 rides. With my Piko 3, I love that it easily can be titled up/down on the fly. No left/right adjustment but mounted on my helmet that doesn't affect me.
    Last edited by randyharris; 09-04-2011 at 07:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    I think you mean SSC but yes I think that is over as Cree is the apparent reining ruler for most bike set-ups.....Still, you're right about the rubber mount stuff as it is a PITA.
    No, I mean Philips Lumileds Luxeon Rebel 100 LEDs. As far as I know, that was their most recent emitter upgrade.

    I wonder if you'll be able to adapt the new XML-3 to the older 600L mounts?
    Possibly, or, possibly, you could do what I did with my 1200L+ using Cateye parts.
    new dinotte light looks interesting
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titus Maximus View Post
    No, I mean Philips Lumileds Luxeon Rebel 100 LEDs. As far as I know, that was their most recent emitter upgrade.


    Possibly, or, possibly, you could do what I did with my 1200L+ using Cateye parts.
    new dinotte light looks interesting
    Okay, I've not heard or seen any postings of DiNotte using the Rebel emitters so that is news to me. I know that Bikeray has used them but not DiNotte. I know that the 1200L+ was using XP-G's and I've read that the other lamps were up-graded as well. I assumed it was XP-G around the board. Do you know what lamps are using the Rebel's?

    Oh and BTW, the Cateye mount mod is nice. Sooner or later the Companies that are selling the lights with rubber band and O-ring type mounts are going to get the message that A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THEM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Okay, I've not heard or seen any postings of DiNotte using the Rebel emitters so that is news to me.
    I was referring to the Stenlight S7 Premium light.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titus Maximus View Post
    I was referring to the Stenlight S7 Premium light.
    Doh!.... Well actually I was just testing you.

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    Emailed Rob to see if they are doing anything with the 600L or have abandoned it. Either the new 1000+ or possibly an update to my 400L could do the trick for the helmet light.

    I would also like the 1200+ to have more punch. It is very wide in its' throw but does lack the punch to push the light far enough. Perhaps driving the leds a little harder would be the thing to do, but as noted a larger capacity battery would be required for a reasonable runtime.

    I like the Dinotte lights I have, but they still leave you wanting a little more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rideitall View Post
    I would also like the 1200+ to have more punch. It is very wide in its' throw but does lack the punch to push the light far enough. Perhaps driving the leds a little harder would be the thing to do, but as noted a larger capacity battery would be required for a reasonable runtime.
    I think in addition to a larger battery pack for run times over 2 hours on high, the light head would have to be larger to dissipate the heat if they used a higher current. For instance, the new Hope R8 weighs 480 g with battery and the 1200L+ weighs 360 g with battery, both using a four cell battery.

    The beam can be played with to some extent as the optics are user replaceable. I believe they are using the 24mm diameter Carclo Quad optics as shown on this page: Cutter Electronics My guess is they are using the 10622 and 10624 optics, but I would check with Dinotte to be sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideitall View Post
    Emailed Rob to see if they are doing anything with the 600L or have abandoned it. Either the new 1000+ or possibly an update to my 400L could do the trick for the helmet light.

    I would also like the 1200+ to have more punch. It is very wide in its' throw but does lack the punch to push the light far enough. Perhaps driving the leds a little harder would be the thing to do, but as noted a larger capacity battery would be required for a reasonable runtime.

    I like the Dinotte lights I have, but they still leave you wanting a little more.
    About the 600L issue: Yes, sure would be nice to see the offer of a brighter LED upgrade..OR...perhaps offer a trade in discount ( head for head ) so to speak. Now if DiNotte could offer the newer XML-3 for $150 with a 600L ( light head ) trade in, I just might be wiling to go that route...provided there is some way to adapt the XML3 head to the old 600L mount which I still like better than rubber straps.

    The DiNotte 1200L+ could probably work fine with a little more current but than it would need a 6-cell ( or 4 x 26650 ) battery to get you decent run time on high. I also agree that it could use a little more punch ( throw ). Too bad they don't give you the option of special ordering. If they did you could either order one quad with XP-E the other with XP-G. That should give you a better mix of flood and throw or maybe double quad XP-E's for the total throw monkeys. Yeah, you might have to wait for the order longer but it would be worth the wait to get what you really want.

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    Dinotte XML-3

    Just got the XML-3 and compared to my Dinotte200L, 400L, and 600L. Just by my eyes, it seems like it is at least 1200 lumens. It is much brighter than both and flood pattern more than spot. But, the flood is as bright as the spot on my L&M HID! What a light. Size is between 200L and 600L. The constant light level in the fast flash mode is as bright as the 400L so this will make an excellent sunny day driver alert light and it will be bright enough at night to use in fast flash mode. No run times yet.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by davisek524 View Post
    Just got the XML-3 and compared to my Dinotte200L, 400L, and 600L. Just by my eyes, it seems like it is at least 1200 lumens. It is much brighter than both and flood pattern more than spot. But, the flood is as bright as the spot on my L&M HID! What a light. Size is between 200L and 600L. The constant light level in the fast flash mode is as bright as the 400L so this will make an excellent sunny day driver alert light and it will be bright enough at night to use in fast flash mode. No run times yet.
    Hummm....First big question; Does it look like you can remove the rubber strap mount without too much problem? Second question; Would you say the XM-L(3) has better distance throw than the 600L ? ( hopefully you have a standard optic 600L ) I suspected the XML3 would be more flood. That should make it an excellent bar light. I just hope it still has some throw. If it's as bright as you say then it should.

    Anyway can you do some outside beam pics?

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    Dinotte SML-3 mount

    Yes, it is easily removed with a Philips screw driver. This reveals a recessed screw socket and the cooling fins have been cut away to allow a cylindrical bushing to provide a flat interface with the mounting bracket. The throw is better than the 600L but much more of a flood. Maybe my eye ball guess of 1200 lumens is a bit low? I really don't know how to estimate and I have no way to measure.

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    As there was no options on Dinotte's website where i could see lamp head specks, dementions, weight, would you be able to share your impressions??

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    Dinotte XML-3 light comments

    Rob has not posted any documentation on his XML series of lights yet. He usually provides weight and this one does seem to be between the 200L and 600L in size and weight. I have asked him for different lenses and he has provided some but I have not asked for any different lenses for the XML-3. It is so bright and has more throw than the 400L and 600L that I really don't need it.

    His lights may not have the best mounts and I have read some of the quibbles that some folks have with them, but I have tried many lights and Rob's seem to be the best compromise of size, weight, durability, run times, charge times, brightness, modes, batteries, charger, connectors, cost, customer service --the whole package--and, he has the best tail lights which is very important to me as a road rider who wants to be visible to motorists. Other lights may be better than these in a specific aspect, but I think Dinottes are the best overall even though they may not excel in any one area compared to others.

    I use these lights for day time visibility to motorists and night time road riding. The daytime visibility is very effective when doing down hill runs in residential districts where there is a danger of cars pulling out in front of you because they don't see you.

    I will try to do some outside beam shots, but I have never done this before.

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    Long story short I have both the 1200L-Plus dual quad XPG Dinotte, and the new XML-3 light. I'm going to make the final decision and keep the winner.

    Unfortunately the battery needs to be charged! But here are some pictures.

    Dinotte 1200L-Plus lighthead weighed 5.0 ounces 141.7 grams
    Dinotte XML-3 lighthead weighed 3.7 ounces, 105 grams

    Here are thumbnail pictures, click on any of them for a larger image.









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    Thanks Randy. Nice that you have both lights to compare with. I can't wait to hear how they compare in both throw and spread. One poster already commented that the XM-L 3 had more throw than a 600L so I can't wait to hear your opinion on how it compares to the 1200L+.

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    These are in our conference room with all lights off, pitch black other than the Dinotte lights.

    iPhone 4 pictures using the Camera+ app.

    I forgot to measure, but the wall was approximately 30 feet away.

    Dinotte 1200L-Plus
    (click on image for larger view)



    Dinotte XML-3
    (click on image for larger view)


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    I know photos can be deceiving especially with indoor shots, but that XML3 looks brighter to me???

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    I would say the 1200 was hotter, the XML-3 more evenly dispersed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    I know photos can be deceiving especially with indoor shots, but that XML3 looks brighter to me???
    I would say just the opposite. the 1200+ has a much larger hot spot which looks at least as bright as the very center of the XML3 beam, also a bit more spill into the corners of the room. I guess brightness is in the eye of the beholder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post
    I would say the 1200 was hotter, the XML-3 more evenly dispersed.
    Hard to tell from wall tests but but I agree the 1200 looks like it is supplying more light ( as it should ). Still, the beam pattern on the XML3 looks to have a very smooth transition from center hot spot to wider spill. Oh, I almost forgot. I noticed the XML3 is using a dispersing lens. I can't help but wonder what the beam pattern would look like with a clear ( anti-reflective ) lens. You would likely lose some of the spill but I bet the throw would increase big time.

    RH, anyway you can do a quick run-time test with the XML3? Damn, trigger finger is starting to itch again.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Oh, I almost forgot. I noticed the XML3 is using a dispersing lens. I can't help but wonder what the beam pattern would look like with a clear ( anti-reflective ) lens. You would likely lose some of the spill but I bet the throw would increase big time.
    That XML3 picture shows that it is using the Ledil Cute3 SS optic. The dispersion texture is molded on the optic face. That is the tightest beam of that series of Ledil optics. I'd sure like to see Ledil produce that optic in an RS pattern.

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    I was super busy yesterday evening and never got outside in the dark to play with the lights, busy this morning as well, but I did manage to get back behind my house in the alley a little after 5:30AM this morning to check out the lights. You can see from the sky that there was a little ambient light, but not much.

    Honestly I didn't have enough time to play with them, just made a few quick comparisons and snapped some shots with my point and shoot.

    These pictures don't illustrate very well the brightness of the lights, keep that in mind. The 1200L is definitely brighter but that isn't as clear in the pictures as it is in person.

    To my eyes after just a couple minutes, I noticed that the XML3 is not a whole lot brighter than the Piko 3, but whereas the Piko 3 has it's 22 degree pattern, it has very little light outside of that pattern. The XML3 has it's main beam pattern but then spills out more light to the periphery where the Piko 3 is far darker out of that main beam.

    The 1200 is definitely brighter than the XML3. In looking at the pictures it looks like the XML has broader flood. I didn't really notice that in person, maybe because I was more focused on the amount of light. The 1200L also has far more throw than does the XML3. I didn't measure to that telephone post, but it's probably in the neighborhood of 150 feet away.

    I'll try and play more with these and report what I see.

    btw - I don't see where Rob has mentioned it on the website, but I feel safe in saying this since the new light is shipping. This 1200L-Plus is a new shipping model that has been increased in output from the version that has been shipping since it was introduced. So the XML3 vs 1200L-Plus, just keep in mind that this 1200L-Plus I'm comparing against has more light than does the 1200L-Plus that has shipped up to this week.

    edit: I've removed these pictures, trail shots in a newer post.
    Last edited by randyharris; 09-15-2011 at 04:54 PM.
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    haha, you know it's hard to tell from these beam patterns. But know I am second guessing if I mislabeled the XML3 and the 1200L-Plus beam shots. I'll double check soon...
    Last edited by randyharris; 09-14-2011 at 03:07 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    RH, anyway you can do a quick run-time test with the XML3? Damn, trigger finger is starting to itch again.
    I am going for a early morning ride tomorrow leaving the house at about 5AM and plan to be home by about 7:15AM. In efforts of testing the run time, maybe what I can do it stick to turn it on high and leave it in the freezer from 4:30AM to 5:AM while I'm getting ready. That gives 2 hours and 45 minutes of total time. Rob said it should burn on high for 2.5 hours.

    Oh geez, listen to me - light in the freezer... What kind of nonsense is this. OK Cat, just for you, I'll get up at 3:45AM and get out the door by 4:15AM and go do a pre-ride before I meet my mates at 5:30. That gives me 3 full hours to see how long the XML runs on high. I assume the backlit button changes colors, I'll try and note how long it goes before changing but no promises on that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post
    .....btw - I don't see where Rob has mentioned it on the website, but I feel safe in saying this since the new light is shipping. This 1200L-Plus is a new shipping model that has been increased in output from the version that has been shipping since it was introduced. So the XML3 vs 1200L-Plus, just keep in mind that this 1200L-Plus I'm comparing against has more light than does the 1200L-Plus that has shipped up to this week.
    Uh...and where did you hear this from? Not that I'm doubting you because what you said about the 1200L+ confirms what my eyes are telling me.

    I couldn't help but notice that the 1200L+ you have is throwing much more than the original ( debut ) model. I think the difference is the optics but that's just my guess. It looks like the spill dropped down a tad to the sides ( compared to original ) but the new(er) version is much better IMO. Kudo's to DiNotte for making this adjustment. Looks like the new(er) 1200L+ is now covering all the bases...throw and spill....

    The XML3 on the other hand looks like it suffers from loss of throw. Hard to tell from the photos because you have no distance references ( markers ). The trade off ( with the optics being used ) is that you get excellent ( close in ) peripheral illumination. Some people might like that but IMO if you're going to use this as your main bar light ...well...personally I would like more throw. With the lens that is being used it might be okay on the high mode but I have a feeling that when you go to the lower levels the throw is going to completely suck. Such is the effect when using a lens that disperses the light. Would be nice if the lenses used on these could be switched out to clear ( if that is what you wanted ). You would lose some of that excellent ( close in ) side illumination but I could deal with that ( speaking for myself ) .

    Randy, is there any way you can remark the photos to indicate a progression of distance? ( as that would be super helpful in judging throw. )

    (**edit...about the run time test: Don't knock yourself out. I mean, most of us just do a inside the house test using a small fan for cooling. This way you can kick back, watch your favorite shows and just check it out when the maximum expected run time draws near. )
    Last edited by Cat-man-do; 09-14-2011 at 02:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Uh...and where did you hear this from? Not that I'm doubting you because what you said about the 1200L+ confirms what my eyes are telling me.

    I couldn't help but notice that the 1200L+ you have is throwing much more than the original ( debut ) model. I think the difference is the optics but that's just my guess. It looks like the spill dropped down a tad to the sides ( compared to original ) but the new(er) version is much better IMO. Kudo's to DiNotte for making this adjustment. Looks like the new(er) 1200L+ is now covering all the bases...throw and spill....

    The XML3 on the other hand looks like it suffers from loss of throw. Hard to tell from the photos because you have no distance references ( markers ). The trade off ( with the optics being used ) is that you get excellent ( close in ) peripheral illumination. Some people might like that but IMO if you're going to use this as your main bar light ...well...personally I would like more throw. With the lens that is being used it might be okay on the high mode but I have a feeling that when you go to the lower levels the throw is going to completely suck. Such is the effect when using a lens that disperses the light. Would be nice if the lenses used on these could be switched out to clear ( if that is what you wanted ). You would lose some of that excellent ( close in ) side illumination but I could deal with that ( speaking for myself ) .

    Randy, is there any way you can remark the photos to indicate a progression of distance? ( as that would be super helpful in judging throw. )
    I'll see if I can get some markers, please understand I had about 10 minutes start to finish for this photo shoot exercise...

    the detail came straight from Rob. the 1200L-Plus has had a change to the light head and has an increased light output and decreased runtime on the same battery. 20% increase in light is what Rob told me.

    I'm riding with the XML-3 tomorrow morning. I'll have the opportunity to try it solo and with my Piko 3 helmet light going.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    personally I would like more throw
    As anything we all have slightly different situations and needs. I ride a rigid single speed in rough technical terrain so I am more concerned with the up close lighting than more throw.
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    Dude, you are so fast.
    I updated my last post and before I did you posted twice.

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    What was i thinking,,that the XML3 looks brighter The outdoor shots show the 1200L+ having much more light, plus more punch than i ever expected to see based on the criticism it has received in the past for been a flood monster but lacking throw. I didn't expect it to have that much more punch than the XML3. The XML3 though sure has a nice beam in it's own right, very smooth all the way to the outer edge of the spill,,, i likey!!

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    That XML3 is looking good. My old 600 needs a new battery anyway so why not just upgrade i think and still use my old batteries with the 600 as a bar light.

    Just waiting now for your estimated run times and more confirmed bean shots.

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    Teaser...

    I went riding this morning and rode with the XML-3 solo, the 1200L-Plus solo, and each of those two at times in conjunction with my Lupine Piko 3.

    I have some definite thoughts about them, ah, but it is lunch time right now. Back Later with my thoughts.
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    Here are my thoughts on the DiNotte XML-3 and the new 1200L-Plus lights after 1 morning of riding with them. I rode with each light by itself and also rode with each light AND my LupinePiko 3 helmet light. Riding with the Lupine Piko 3 by itself for a few weeks, I knew it wasn't a big flood, but it oddly seems to have a tighter beam than I would have described before riding it with the DiNotte's. Not that I feel it is too spot'ish, just that the more flood pattern of the DiNotte's put the Piko's beam into better perspective. I do wonder if some of the 'spotishness' of the Lupine Piko relative to the DiNotte's could be because it was shooting down from my helmet, a much steeper angle to the ground than the lights mounted on the bar.

    This morning in full darkness I rode many sections of trails, turned around and rode it with the other light so that I could compare. I wasn't able to make it down any gnarly descents before it started getting light, but I certainly ran some high speed, and slow technical areas.

    Let me say up front, I can't advise anybody to ride with a bar light only. I hadn't done that in years and it was a grave reminder how you can get caught out because the bar light isn't always pointing where you are looking. One high speed corner in particular I was going near 20mph and entered a tight corner, I was turning into near darkness because the bar light was pointing more in front of my while I was turning hard right. Wished that I had the Piko 3 on for that section, scared the crud out of me.

    RUNTIME:
    Cat, Rob told me that the XML-3 would get 2.5 hours of run time. He's clearly a liar, I turned the light off after 3 hours and it was going strong. I didn't notice at what time the indicator light went from Blue to Red, but I noticed it was red at about 2h45m. At the 3h point I just turned it off, didn't see the need to run it fully empty. Even though I was switching lights a bit I think this is fairly accurate as running the XML-3 by itself. At times I ran the 1200L on full and at times the middle setting so overall I figure the time I was on the 1200L it approximated the drain of the XML-3 on full.

    OVERVIEW:
    Both lights are really nice, the feel like they are well made machine parts when you hold them, and after using them for a few hours my opinion hasn't changed. Several people moan about the mounts, I did find them tilting down when I hit rough sections fast, but I stopped and cinched up the strap one notch and that seemed to solve the problem. I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

    XML-3 the XML-3 is a really nice light, it has noticeable more flood than does my Piko. It is not a spot pattern, though it is brighter in the center of the beam than is the Piko. The Piko is really flat throughout it's beam. The XML-3 worked like a champ and it is well complemented with the Piko on my helmet. When both lights are aimed at the same spot they pretty much meld together and it's honestly not a ton brighter than with the XML-3 by itself, when I turn my head the beam magically splits and lights up in front of my and wherever I looked. Running the XML-3 by itself leaves a lot of shadows pointing away from you just from the angle of the light hitting the ground in front of you. When the helmet light was on, the shadows virtually disappeared. Riding up to and over a rise, it was dark on the other side of the rise with bar light only, much nicer with the helmet light on. Already discussed turning and bar lights only above.

    My take away from the XML-3 is that it puts out a lot of light, has a good amount of light flooding around the main beam which is well dispersed, but a bit brighter in the center.

    New 1200L-Plus: Wow.

    That about sums it up. The new 1200L-Plus on medium is very similar to the XML-3 on high. The 1200L has a bit more flood than the XML-3, and it has a more evenly distributed beam pattern like the Piko - the 1200L-Plus on medium doesn't have that spot within a flood look about it. Which is really quite remarkable considering it's a dual quad with different lenses.

    Turn the 1200L-Plus on FULL and holy sh*t there is a serious amount of light coming from this light head. Now to be honest it didn't wow me as much just standing still and A-B from the XML-3 to the 1200L-Plus. Yes it had more light but not draw dropping. But was really stunned me was out on the trail riding and seeing the difference between the two lights on full power. There is absolutely nothing wrong or lacking with the Piko helmet and XML-3 on the bar. But switch the bar to the 1200L-Plus and d*amn there really is a difference. While riding, I appreciate the bigger flood beam pattern of the 1200L-Plus, it really is broader than the XML-3. And for high speed sections it just lights everything up when on full.

    I am going to thinking about this a bit more, but I can't imagine not keeping the 1200L-Plus at this moment in time. My setup would be to run it on medium a lot of the time, and crank it up to full power for higher speed sections and all descents. The fact of the matter is that the $90 difference in the price of the two lights, while an amount that I appreciate and value, isn't so much that I'm not willing to sport it for the bigger light. If having those extra lumens and bigger flood prevent me from one accident I'll consider it to have been money very well spent.

    I really wasn't too concerned about the throw of the lights, but for those of you that like good throw, without question the 1200L-Plus has far more throw than the XML-3 and the Piko lights did.



    PICTURES DISCLAIMER:
    These pictures do not accurately illustrate the intensity or amount of light. They do give a footprint of the beam pattern and slightly to the intensity - but I can't express enough that the pictures in no way show clearly the distinctions that I was able to view in person. Also - I apologize that the lights weren't always aimed at the exact same spot - this is all new to me and I didn't do a good job in that regard.

    The purplish tint in some of the photos is chromatic aboration, you don't see that, it is a failing of my camera.



    PICTURES:

    I have four sets of pictures below, click on the images for larger images. Remember my disclaimer above.

    SET 1




    SET 2




    SET 3




    SET 4
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    Nice review Randy
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
    For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking


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    A big +1

    I have to say that i have a new respect for Dinottes products. Also that they look to be as honest with their lumen claims on the two products reviewed here as Lupine. Clearly to me with your extra photo's and reviews of what your eyes are seeing the 750 lumen Piko takes third place of the three, and that all photo's and descriptions are accurately depicted by their honest claims.

    Can you confirm if there was a change in the 1200L+ you tested, over last years model? And if there was a change was it just the optics, or a driver upgrade? Just asking because there doesn't seem to be any issue with punch at all as previously criticized!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Can you confirm if there was a change in the 1200L+ you tested, over last years model? And if there was a change was it just the optics, or a driver upgrade? Just asking because there doesn't seem to be any issue with punch at all as previously criticized!!
    Confirmed the 1200L-Plus is an updated version as of just this week. My understanding is that it is a driver upgrade, pumping more power to the LED's, nothing to do with optics. Runtime is lower with this new version. Assuming I keep the 1200L-Plus-New (haha) the lower runtime doesn't really bother me since I think I'd be in the middle mode maybe 75% of the time, and in the high mode the rest.
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    I wonder if there is a six cell just around the corner? At Dinotte's price point they could afford to charge more for the six cell option easily. They are right there with the two lights you reviewed, quality,performance,and well priced. Your review sure opened my eyes.Thanx!! Dinotte now needs to upgrade their website so people can understand their new line-up more clearly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    I wonder if there is a six cell just around the corner? At Dinotte's price point they could afford to charge more for the six cell option easily. They are right there with the two lights you reviewed, quality,performance,and well priced. Your review sure opened my eyes.Thanx!! Dinotte now needs to upgrade their website so people can understand their new line-up more clearly.
    btw - I should point out, that I am just a dude who mountain bikes in the dark. I received no special deals or compensation, I am paying for my DiNotte light just like I paid for my Lupine Piko. I have gone through a lot of researching and second guessing about what for some reason strikes me as an important purchase. And I am trying to throw some of what I found from this process out here for other like minded individuals. Just thought maybe I should make that clear, no kind words have been written for any reason other than my experience so far and from no externalities.

    Regarding the battery, I asked Rob about a 6 cell, he said that by only offering a 4 cell it keeps his prices down... But they do have a 2 cell battery two. ??? Who knows. I would think a 6 Cell makes sense, but maybe he just can't do it at a competitive price point. I think the 1200L and guys who go for long rides with the other high powered lights would appreciate a 6 cell battery.

    edit: Rob's answer was to just pick up a second 4 cell for long run times - not a terrible solution, but I prefer the single battery pack myself.
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    One would think (two) four cell battery's would cost more than a six cell, and be more weight to carry around. Come on Rob,,,,,, just do-it!!!

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    Randy, thanks for taking the time to do all those photo's.

    It really is hard to take much from this though without distance references but the fact that you did these while on a ride explains a lot. Not to mention that you probably weren't using a tripod.

    The first set of photos ( in the tunnel ) were the most useful. While the 1200Lplus is the obvious brightest of the bunch I'm still impressed with the XML-3. From the photos, the throw on the XML3 comes real close to the 1200L+. I think the XML3 would be a great light to own for either mountain or road biking but like you said the 1200L+ is definitely the light to own for mtb'ing if you can afford the extra money.

    The Piko 3 is what it is. It is very obvious from the beam pattern that it was basically designed for helmet use. I refer to beam patterns like the Piko's as being "confined". Not a spot or medium flood but a beam pattern confined to a set radius with almost no spill. I have a 4/up XR-E helmet light that mimics the same pattern and it makes a great helmet lamp. I don't think I would use the Piko3 on the bars unless it was for road use but when used on the helmet it should be fine for either.

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    Great job, Randy!

    That confirms my experience between Dinotte and Lupine - Dinotte is much more floodier than is Lupine and I think the characterization of Lupine as a "confined" beam is apt.

    I tend to use my lights on the road, so I want less flood and more light in the confined area in which I ride. When I use the Wilma 1500/26 and the Piko 3 together, they will cover about 3/4s of a two lane rural road with full daylight bright beam and a lot less outside of that. That would be about the same as the hotspot of the Dinotte's but it's going to brighter in that hotspot lumen for lumen. That's why I think that you mention that the Piko seems close to the XML3 from Dinotte in it's main beam. The Lupine gets more light flux on a given point per lumen than does Dinotte. Dinotte has a wider floodier beam which is quite attractive in many applications too.


    J.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Great job, Randy!

    That confirms my experience between Dinotte and Lupine - Dinotte is much more floodier than is Lupine and I think the characterization of Lupine as a "confined" beam is apt.

    I tend to use my lights on the road, so I want less flood and more light in the confined area in which I ride. When I use the Wilma 1500/26 and the Piko 3 together, they will cover about 3/4s of a two lane rural road with full daylight bright beam and a lot less outside of that. That would be about the same as the hotspot of the Dinotte's but it's going to brighter in that hotspot lumen for lumen. That's why I think that you mention that the Piko seems close to the XML3 from Dinotte in it's main beam. The Lupine gets more light flux on a given point per lumen than does Dinotte. Dinotte has a wider floodier beam which is quite attractive in many applications too.


    J.
    I think that is pretty accurate. I use my Piko 3 by itself when road riding and it's great for that. For MTB I definitely prefer the DiNotte style 'spill'.
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post
    I think that is pretty accurate. I use my Piko 3 by itself when road riding and it's great for that. For MTB I definitely prefer the DiNotte style 'spill'.
    Well, as a minimum.....

    The thing is, and watching you write about this all, you are now a lumen addict too. You can't have too many. While I *could* ride on the road with just my Piko 3, I never would when I add another 1500 lumens or so....

    J.

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    To clarify, I use the Piko 3 only on road rides, and the Piko 3 AND a bar light for MTB rides.

    Not sure I'd call myself a lumen junkie or addict, but I certainly appreciate well lit roads and trails when riding without sunlight. Don't imagine I'll be changing my light setup for a very long time to come.
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post
    To clarify, I use the Piko 3 only on road rides, and the Piko 3 AND a bar light for MTB rides.

    Not sure I'd call myself a lumen junkie or addict, but I certainly appreciate well lit roads and trails when riding without sunlight. Don't imagine I'll be changing my light setup for a very long time to come.
    Ha. I've said that every year for the last 5 and every year I've bought a new light. Hey, you obsessed over this with the best of them. You'll be back....

    There ought to be a 12 step program for lumen addicts.

    J.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Ha. I've said that every year for the last 5 and every year I've bought a new light. Hey, you obsessed over this with the best of them. You'll be back....

    There ought to be a 12 step program for lumen addicts.

    J.
    Well, I did run my previous set of lights for 5+ years, so I've got a good track record. And I have a feeling that future replacements for the Lupine Piko and DiNotte 1200L-Plus will be incremental. Never say never though.
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    OK here are the money shots. I took my Panasonic Lumix point and shoot to my local park after dark to get some tripod shots with markers.

    Each of the plastic bottles are 25 feet away, 25/50/75. I tried to pick a location with several trees around to illustrate the flood / spill decently.

    Curious George is at the 100' marker.

    24mm, F3.3, AWB.


    First shot is an animated GIF that will cycle through the shots, then there are thumbnails of the individual images below, you can click on any of them for larger size images.














    Hope this helps for anybody interested in these lights, and you should be interested - they're all great and at very nice price points.
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    Hey Randy,

    Great shots - thanks for those. It lights up the ground well.. almost too well. I reckon you could get a tad bit more throw with it pointing slightly higher?

    Also the GIF is missing? I see two jps only.

    Thanks.

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    The 1200L+ is a LOT more light than the XML3. The XML3 looks, give or take, about the same as the Piko. Is that right?

    J.

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    @RE1GN2: I could have aimed the 1200L a little higher to get more throw correct, but I tried aiming them all more or less at the same point, and to be somewhat how you'd have it for biking. Sorry you can't see the animated gif, I see it on my system hopefully it's not viewable only on Mac's.

    @JohnJ80: I feel funny reminding you, but keep in mind these beamshots only show the pattern well not the intensity. Plus the fact that there is grass amplifies the light compared to road or dirt which is much more flat and neutral. The 1200 does have a broader pattern, and it does have more lumens in that main beam than does the XML3. And yes this picture in the park makes the difference more pronounced, but out on the trail or on Tarmac I don't think the difference is as obvious and I don't know about you, but I don't do much riding in the middle of our park.

    The XML3 definitely puts out more lumens than the Piko 3, it just isn't clear by the shots. I noticed that the camera auto adjusted the exposure time and white balance so that may play small tricks on comparing.
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    XML3 ordered, thanks for all the pics Randy.

    I'm positive ill love it as I have one of the old 600s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post
    @RE1GN2: I could have aimed the 1200L a little higher to get more throw correct, but I tried aiming them all more or less at the same point, and to be somewhat how you'd have it for biking. Sorry you can't see the animated gif, I see it on my system hopefully it's not viewable only on Mac's.

    @JohnJ80: I feel funny reminding you, but keep in mind these beamshots only show the pattern well not the intensity. Plus the fact that there is grass amplifies the light compared to road or dirt which is much more flat and neutral. The 1200 does have a broader pattern, and it does have more lumens in that main beam than does the XML3. And yes this picture in the park makes the difference more pronounced, but out on the trail or on Tarmac I don't think the difference is as obvious and I don't know about you, but I don't do much riding in the middle of our park.

    The XML3 definitely puts out more lumens than the Piko 3, it just isn't clear by the shots. I noticed that the camera auto adjusted the exposure time and white balance so that may play small tricks on comparing.
    I guess I was thinking "beam", but you're right. Even given the compression of digital photography, the 1200L+ clearly throws light in a much wider beam (and what I was really thinking about anyhow). The exposure changes almost certainly made the XML3 and the Piko3 look the same or very similar. The Piko has two leds and the XML3 has three so one would presume it's about 50% brighter in overall lumens and probably 30% brighter just because Dinotte tends to have a wider beam and be very conservative in their drive. Does that sound about right?

    J.

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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post
    @RE1GN2: I could have aimed the 1200L a little higher to get more throw correct, but I tried aiming them all more or less at the same point, and to be somewhat how you'd have it for biking. Sorry you can't see the animated gif, I see it on my system hopefully it's not viewable only on Mac's.

    @JohnJ80: I feel funny reminding you, but keep in mind these beamshots only show the pattern well not the intensity. Plus the fact that there is grass amplifies the light compared to road or dirt which is much more flat and neutral. The 1200 does have a broader pattern, and it does have more lumens in that main beam than does the XML3. And yes this picture in the park makes the difference more pronounced, but out on the trail or on Tarmac I don't think the difference is as obvious and I don't know about you, but I don't do much riding in the middle of our park.

    The XML3 definitely puts out more lumens than the Piko 3, it just isn't clear by the shots. I noticed that the camera auto adjusted the exposure time and white balance so that may play small tricks on comparing.
    great effort on the animated gif.....i see it no problem on my mac......i have a 1200-l plus but switched it to spot lens on both sides, but driving at normal power, and works really well....just ask Rob to send you another spot lens and you can switch it yourself, esp if driving at higher power it still gives plenty of spill for me .....the flood lens on the 1200l plus just wastes to much light in the spill for my preference.....

    installed a 10" led light bar made buy kolpin for my honda rancher atv, rated at 3600 lumens and i gotta tell y'all that think is crazy crazy bright.....would be definite way overkill for a bike...

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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post
    OK here are the money shots.
    Money shots indeed. I feel like we should pay you for all your hard work (Well, not really.). Nice job! I especially like the animated .gif. It has inspired me to learn how to do that. Also like the positioning of the near tree to show the spill. There is room for improvement however. Automatic exposure doesn't cut it for comparison shots. If possible, the camera needs to be set for full manual exposure. Likewise, white balance should be set to daylight or sunny. The exposure suggested in the beam thread on "DIY" is ISO-100, Exposure-6 seconds, Aperture-F4.0. Since many cameras do not have ISO 100, I would suggest:

    ISO 200, Exp. 6 sec. and aperture F 5.6
    or: ISO 400 6 sec. F 8.0
    or: ISO 400 3 sec. F 5.6

    I must say I am a bit perturbed by the news that you got a 1200L+ that has been juiced with more lumens out the front than mine. I demand equal lumens!
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    Quote Originally Posted by suvowner View Post
    i have a 1200-l plus but switched it to spot lens on both sides, but driving at normal power, and works really well....just ask Rob to send you another spot lens and you can switch it yourself, esp if driving at higher power it still gives plenty of spill for me .....the flood lens on the 1200l plus just wastes to much light in the spill for my preference.....
    So this spot lens from Dinotte is free of charge? What's Rob's number?
    "... displays the social skills of a barrel cactus." - TNC

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    The Piko has two leds and the XML3 has three so one would presume it's about 50% brighter in overall lumens and probably 30% brighter just because Dinotte tends to have a wider beam and be very conservative in their drive. Does that sound about right?

    J.
    Generally speaking I would agree with this, my non scientific off-the-cuff estimate is that the XML3 seems about 20% more light than the Piko 3.

    The XML 3 will make a killer light for many people in my estimation, it has a lot going for it, especially at the price that DiNotte is selling it. Realistically I should probably call well enough alone and go with the Piko and an XML-3 I'd have plenty of light for my needs. But you know, for only an extra $90 I have the option of being what I call a BLINDER. So much light that you wouldn't want to be coming towards me on the trail. And while I'll likely often be in the middle setting, for faster bits and very technical sections I'll appreciate being able to run it on full.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titus Maximus View Post
    Money shots indeed. I feel like we should pay you for all your hard work (Well, not really.). Nice job! I especially like the animated .gif. It has inspired me to learn how to do that. Also like the positioning of the near tree to show the spill. There is room for improvement however. Automatic exposure doesn't cut it for comparison shots. If possible, the camera needs to be set for full manual exposure. Likewise, white balance should be set to daylight or sunny. The exposure suggested in the beam thread on "DIY" is ISO-100, Exposure-6 seconds, Aperture-F4.0. Since many cameras do not have ISO 100, I would suggest:

    ISO 200, Exp. 6 sec. and aperture F 5.6
    or: ISO 400 6 sec. F 8.0
    or: ISO 400 3 sec. F 5.6

    I must say I am a bit perturbed by the news that you got a 1200L+ that has been juiced with more lumens out the front than mine. I demand equal lumens!
    Yes, my neophyte camera skills are showing! Honestly I don't know if I can manually do those settings or not, I picked a night scene not realizing it would vary the exposure time. If I have the time and energy I'll look into fully manual settings.

    No need to pay me, but feel free to click my rep thumbs up button.
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post
    Generally speaking I would agree with this, my non scientific off-the-cuff estimate is that the XML3 seems about 20% more light than the Piko 3.

    The XML 3 will make a killer light for many people in my estimation, it has a lot going for it, especially at the price that DiNotte is selling it. Realistically I should probably call well enough alone and go with the Piko and an XML-3 I'd have plenty of light for my needs. But you know, for only an extra $90 I have the option of being what I call a BLINDER. So much light that you wouldn't want to be coming towards me on the trail. And while I'll likely often be in the middle setting, for faster bits and very technical sections I'll appreciate being able to run it on full.
    I would be very happy to "settle" for a Piko 3 as my helmet light! Speaking of which, how's the helmet mount on the XML-3? Is it hinged, like the Piko, or is it some rubber band contraption?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titus Maximus View Post
    I would be very happy to "settle" for a Piko 3 as my helmet light! Speaking of which, how's the helmet mount on the XML-3? Is it hinged, like the Piko, or is it some rubber band contraption?
    You can see the mount here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post
    You can see the mount here.
    I don't see it there. Dinotte photos mostly suck for detail. I'm interested in how it pivots up and down. I have the helmet mount for the 200L and it is a PITA to aim it. I did not get a helmet mount for the 1200L+. I imagine it is probably the same as the mount for the XML-3, as it looks like they both attach to the rubber strap handlebar mount in the same way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post
    Generally speaking I would agree with this, my non scientific off-the-cuff estimate is that the XML3 seems about 20% more light than the Piko 3.

    The XML 3 will make a killer light for many people in my estimation, it has a lot going for it, especially at the price that DiNotte is selling it. Realistically I should probably call well enough alone and go with the Piko and an XML-3 I'd have plenty of light for my needs. But you know, for only an extra $90 I have the option of being what I call a BLINDER. So much light that you wouldn't want to be coming towards me on the trail. And while I'll likely often be in the middle setting, for faster bits and very technical sections I'll appreciate being able to run it on full.
    You, sir, are a man in denial. Remember where this conversation started... You've got a case of lumen addiction that's as bad as any and worst than most.

    Great choices in lights.

    J.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titus Maximus View Post
    I don't see it there. Dinotte photos mostly suck for detail. I'm interested in how it pivots up and down. I have the helmet mount for the 200L and it is a PITA to aim it. I did not get a helmet mount for the 1200L+. I imagine it is probably the same as the mount for the XML-3, as it looks like they both attach to the rubber strap handlebar mount in the same way.
    I can't comment on this style of helmet mount, my previous light, Light and Motion HID ARC's had a different style mount, and the Lupine Piko 3 mount is different as well. I can say that I don't find the Lupine mount all that easy to get the light on the helmet quickly, but I love the free swivel up and down, it's great as I need it adjusted differently for Road and MTB. I never take the Piko off my helmet, it's there all the time. Today I was able to ride in daylight, and the Piko was still there unpowered - so small and light you don't even notice it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Dinotte XML-3, replaces 800L-Plus-photo1-1.jpg  

    New Dinotte XML-3, replaces 800L-Plus-photo2.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post
    I can't comment on this style of helmet mount, my previous light, Light and Motion HID ARC's had a different style mount, and the Lupine Piko 3 mount is different as well. I can say that I don't find the Lupine mount all that easy to get the light on the helmet quickly, but I love the free swivel up and down, it's great as I need it adjusted differently for Road and MTB. I never take the Piko off my helmet, it's there all the time. Today I was able to ride in daylight, and the Piko was still there unpowered - so small and light you don't even notice it.
    I like a good swivel myself. My trusty old Stenlight has a very nice swivel with adjustable tension, plus the best switch in the business. The attachment to the helmet is a little tedious, so I have a Giro E2 helmet dedicated to night riding. The G2 has a large rear vent that the 2 cell battery is a press fit in, no other attachment needed. Thanks for the photos of the mount. Looks like a strap-on for Dinotte. That's perverted and totally unhinged!
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    Hey check it out, Rob emailed me, he saw the pictures that I posted. He asked if I'd like to test two more DiNotte lights. I said sure, so he's sending over the 400L and the XML1.

    Note, this is again an unpaid, endeavor, I'm not getting any compensation or free lights for doing this, just kind of fun.

    I'll beg borrow or steal a real digital SLR for the next round of pictures so they come out more as an even better comparison. I may even take those lights out on the trail and offer my initial feedback on them.
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    Thanks for all the great information. I am not a light junky in the sense that I need more lumens but I appreciate the fact that Dinotte is becoming more reasonable in their price point. Now it is more realistic to consider Dinotte for a lighting solution.

    Does anyone know what brand and capacity of battery Dinotte uses in their current packs?

    I'm looking forward to Dinotte making some stand-alone lights... be-seen lights rather than seeing lights.

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    Randy, Once again, great pictures. I think the camera you're using is fine.
    After this last series of photos I have some more comments:

    The 1200L+ looks better every time I see it. Very nice beam pattern if I do say so. I think the D-people nailed it this time. ( finally ). If I was in the market for a bar mounted light to mountain bike with, this one would definitely be at the top of the list. As I see it the only thing that could make it better would be the option(s) for a bar remote and either a 6 cell battery or a 4-cell 26650 ( 8000mAh ) battery. For me the battery isn't an issue but if DiNotte had offered the 1200L+ with a remote option...well....need I say, I would be on this like a cat on a piece of fresh salmon.

    The following comment made after looking over my old DiNotte 600L beam pics:

    The XML3 on the other hand ( while not bad ) I feel could use some tweaking. Too much of the output is lying too close to the bike. This light head has lots of potential. I feel the optic is restraining more of the beam than it should be. Something has to be done to make it better. Maybe a clear(er) lens or maybe a tad more current or perhaps a combo of both. With 3 x XM-L's this light should punch to 100ft, no questions asked. As it is right now most of the light is right in front and the throw struggles to reach beyond 75ft. I think this could be improved upon without too much trouble. I think the XML3 should mimic the beam pattern of a 600L but only be brighter and reach maybe 25ft further. If done right it will still have good perimeter coverage but will have better throw. The 600L could reach 100ft. and had a very good all-around usable beam pattern. The XML3 was "suppose to replace the 800L", but I bet you a tin of tuna that the original 800L could out throw the new XML3.

    Lastly, I really am glad to see DiNotte taking steps to improve their products. This has been called for by many including myself for a long, long time. I am disappointed though that no official mention was made by DiNotte about all the new recent options and upgrades. Dinotte does have full advertising rights on MTBreview so I don't understand why Rob doesn't give a shout out ( on forum ) once in a while to let the peeps know "What's up" with DiNotte. Sure would be nice to hear about the new stuff straight from the horse's mouth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Randy, Once again, great pictures. I think the camera you're using is fine.
    After this last series of photos I have some more comments:

    The 1200L+ looks better every time I see it. Very nice beam pattern if I do say so. I think the D-people nailed it this time. ( finally ). If I was in the market for a bar mounted light to mountain bike with, this one would definitely be at the top of the list. As I see it the only thing that could make it better would be the option(s) for a bar remote and either a 6 cell battery or a 4-cell 26650 ( 8000mAh ) battery. For me the battery isn't an issue but if DiNotte had offered the 1200L+ with a remote option...well....need I say, I would be on this like a cat on a piece of fresh salmon.

    The following comment made after looking over my old DiNotte 600L beam pics:

    The XML3 on the other hand ( while not bad ) I feel could use some tweaking. Too much of the output is lying too close to the bike. This light head has lots of potential. I feel the optic is restraining more of the beam than it should be. Something has to be done to make it better. Maybe a clear(er) lens or maybe a tad more current or perhaps a combo of both. With 3 x XM-L's this light should punch to 100ft, no questions asked. As it is right now most of the light is right in front and the throw struggles to reach beyond 75ft. I think this could be improved upon without too much trouble. I think the XML3 should mimic the beam pattern of a 600L but only be brighter and reach maybe 25ft further. If done right it will still have good perimeter coverage but will have better throw. The 600L could reach 100ft. and had a very good all-around usable beam pattern. The XML3 was "suppose to replace the 800L", but I bet you a tin of tuna that the original 800L could out throw the new XML3.

    Lastly, I really am glad to see DiNotte taking steps to improve their products. This has been called for by many including myself for a long, long time. I am disappointed though that no official mention was made by DiNotte about all the new recent options and upgrades. Dinotte does have full advertising rights on MTBreview so I don't understand why Rob doesn't give a shout out ( on forum ) once in a while to let the peeps know "What's up" with DiNotte. Sure would be nice to hear about the new stuff straight from the horse's mouth.
    Before I ordered the 1200+ I asked about a six cell battery, Rob stated his case for simply buying a second 4 cell, he makes a good case for it.

    I would be interested in a bar mounted remote control switch as well. Also this may or may not be possible, but I would like to be able to set it to two mode operation, high and medium with no low.

    Regarding the XML3, I found it to be a very capable light on the trail, a lot of light output in a good pattern. Keep in mind that I wasn't aiming the lights at curious George at the 100' mark, but closer in more like you would have it set for riding.
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    Anyone care to offer how this new Dinotte 1200+ might compare in output to the Magic Shine 872/856 1600 lumen lights (25 degree on both). My finger is getting real twitchey to buy a light and it's allot more money for the Dinotte (could buy 2 MS for 1 Dinotte) but it would be nice to support a US compnay and someone the next state over from me. If the light is better well icing on the cake....

    BTW this will be paired with a 750 lumen Piko helmet light.

    Silly question perhaps (new at this stuff) but why not pack the Dinotte 1200+ with XM-L's and get even more light out of it even if under driven? Would this be a potential upgrade down the road?
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidad View Post
    Anyone care to offer how this new Dinotte 1200+ might compare in output to the Magic Shine 872/856 1600 lumen lights (25 degree on both). My finger is getting real twitchey to buy a light and it's allot more money for the Dinotte (could buy 2 MS for 1 Dinotte) but it would be nice to support a US compnay and someone the next state over from me. If the light is better well icing on the cake....
    The lenses will be better, the cooling will be better so the OTF lumens are probably considerably higher. Also it will be more reliable. There are only a handful of light suppliers that provide actual OTF (out the front) lumen measurements. Lupine is one, and Dinotte is moving in that direction. Most rate them using the theoretical maximum at their drive current of the LEDs. That doesn't take into account lenses, reflectors or actual performance as the LEDs heat up.


    BTW this will be paired with a 750 lumen Piko helmet light.

    Silly question perhaps (new at this stuff) but why not pack the Dinotte 1200+ with XM-L's and get even more light out of it even if under driven? Would this be a potential upgrade down the road?
    Cooling. It's a small package and you can only get so much power density before it melts down. I'd guess that it will take the next generation of LED that is more efficient (more light at same power) to make for a successful upgrade.

    J.

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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post
    ...Regarding the XML3, I found it to be a very capable light on the trail, a lot of light output in a good pattern. Keep in mind that I wasn't aiming the lights at curious George at the 100' mark, but closer in more like you would have it set for riding.
    Uhhhh.......Okay. So than it looks to throw more if aimed higher? You know I assumed all the lights were aimed the same....tap, tap, tap, tap, tap.
    ......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Uhhhh.......Okay. So than it looks to throw more if aimed higher? You know I assumed all the lights were aimed the same....tap, tap, tap, tap, tap.
    ......
    My goal was to show the pattern as you might have it aimed when riding, not to try and show the most throw possible.
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    Hi,

    I always adjust my lights on the bar for the most throw possible. This is much better to see things on the way coming up when driving fast (in order to be able to break early). All the rest of the light must be able to flood the ground... This is also much more comfortable for our eyes.

    First of all thanks for the review and pics, great job! It's much work, I know. You got already some good hints how to improve your comparison and I would like to add also my input. It would be great to see some photos with the following settings like we use in our forum and which I used in my light comparison 2011 on lupine lights:

    ISO 200
    Exposure time: 2 sec
    F4
    focal length: something at 27mm KB or 35mm KB - I think your focal length is ok.

    Use always same settings for all fotos otherwise they're not really comparable. If you'd like to show other beam behavior under different circumstances then choose another scenario and use again the same settings.

    Use manual settings on the photo camera all the time for all photos and position the lights on the same place at the tripod with the same direction. The center pattern of the light must point at curious george. Also position curious george at 150 feet or at 300 feet.

    The pico has a good range up to 200 feet and is able to flood the ground.

    Best Regards

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirLancelot View Post
    Hi,

    I always adjust my lights on the bar for the most throw possible. This is much better to see things on the way coming up when driving fast (in order to be able to break early). All the rest of the light must be able to flood the ground... This is also much more comfortable for our eyes.

    First of all thanks for the review and pics, great job! It's much work, I know. You got already some good hints how to improve your comparison and I would like to add also my input. It would be great to see some photos with the following settings like we use in our forum and which I used in my light comparison 2011 on lupine lights:

    ISO 200
    Exposure time: 2 sec
    F4
    focal length: something at 27mm KB or 35mm KB - I think your focal length is ok.

    Use always same settings for all fotos otherwise they're not really comparable. If you'd like to show other beam behavior under different circumstances then choose another scenario and use again the same settings.

    Use manual settings on the photo camera all the time for all photos and position the lights on the same place at the tripod with the same direction. The center pattern of the light must point at curious george. Also position curious george at 150 feet or at 300 feet.

    The pico has a good range up to 200 feet and is able to flood the ground.

    Best Regards
    Thanks for the tips.

    I suppose we all tend to focus on our needs. Where I mtb, I don't think I ever even run into any stretch of trail where I can see 150' ahead of me, much less 300'... I'm looking at the section of trail far closer.

    What does the KB indicate? as in 27mm KB
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    Of course it depends also on the speed and everyone has different needs, it's a matter of taste. So 2 scenarios would be great, one for the trail far closer and one for the most throw possible.

    Sorry I forgot to translate KB. I mean: Focal Length In 35mm Film. But I think your focal length is ok like it is.

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    XML-3 on it's way to me

    After a wet night ride last night, my old eyes told me I need more light.

    The 400L on the helmet is no longer enough. I will use the XML-3 as a helmet light in conjunction with the 1200L+ on the bars.

    My 1200L+ is the older one so it my not be quite as bright as the revamped one, but has lots of spread and decent throw. Once I get the XML-3 I will be back in business. Will post up some comments once I get a ride or two on it.

    Cheers
    J

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    Quote Originally Posted by rideitall View Post
    The 400L on the helmet is no longer enough. I will use the XML-3 as a helmet light in conjunction with the 1200L+ on the bars.
    J
    The old 400L yes BUT...

    I just received my upgraded "old 400L" back from Dinotte. This is essentially the exact same "new 400L Plus" that Dinotte has listed on their website. The 30% boost has brought lumen output to around 530L. Now powered by XPG emitters, new reflectors and more efficient circuitry, it might be something to consider since you already have the light engine (2 new lens options are also included).

    The beam pattern is lovely. Very nice large hotspot that gradually blends outwards. I didn't think the 30% boost would do much initially but when I powered up, i was rightfully corrected. This thing has punch!

    A $70 upgrade might be on the steep side but coupled with the fact that I love the 400L light engine design plus Dinotte's batteries and helmet mount are really solid in form and function (both which I already have), I'm a very happy camper.

    Thanks Rob @ Dinotte.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chromagftw View Post
    The old 400L yes BUT...
    The beam pattern is lovely. Very nice large hotspot that gradually blends outwards. I didn't think the 30% boost would do much initially but when I powered up, i was rightfully corrected. This thing has punch! ...
    Chromagftw thanks for the feedback. I guess I will keep the 400L for now, perhaps a backup or to lend out on rides. I have already pulled the trigger on the XML-3. I won't bother to upgrade the 1200L+ to the 1200L+ new. I like the run time on at as it is and with the XML-3 I should be able to see well enough.

    Now I just have to be patient and wait for the light to arrive. It has only been a couple of hours. Is it here yet. what about now ...

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    1200L+ bar mount

    Does anyone running a 1200L+ use it on a bike with a riser bar. I can get the light to mount on the handlebar, but because of the rise on the bar the light sits quite tilted.

    Any suggestions other than to replace the bar with a flat one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rideitall View Post
    Does anyone running a 1200L+ use it on a bike with a riser bar. I can get the light to mount on the handlebar, but because of the rise on the bar the light sits quite tilted.

    Any suggestions other than to replace the bar with a flat one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideitall View Post
    Does anyone running a 1200L+ use it on a bike with a riser bar. I can get the light to mount on the handlebar, but because of the rise on the bar the light sits quite tilted.

    Any suggestions other than to replace the bar with a flat one.
    Here's one solution from GeoManGear
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post
    Thanks that would work perfectly. Will check a couple of shops locally to see if they have something like this. If not I will purchase a couple of the plastic ones from Geoman.

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    Seems like the Geomangear 6.0Ah battery should work with the 1200L, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by calzonical View Post
    Seems like the Geomangear 6.0Ah battery should work with the 1200L, right?
    Though I think the plugs are the same size, on Dinottes the "hood" is on the male side of the plug. On the Geoman, I think it's on the female end. So, they might be made compatible with a little surgery; a circumcision, so to speak. But that is purely speculation on my part.
    "... displays the social skills of a barrel cactus." - TNC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titus Maximus View Post
    Though I think the plugs are the same size, on Dinottes the "hood" is on the male side of the plug. On the Geoman, I think it's on the female end. So, they might be made compatible with a little surgery; a circumcision, so to speak. But that is purely speculation on my part.
    Titus is correct.

    I did this to experiment but used a Magicshine extension cord to test the connection reliability between battery and light head. It worked but having lost the 'hood' it was jiggley and the connection interface was no longer sturdy or waterproof and required further measures to rectify.

    When it wasn't of great significance then, I do recall seeing on Ebay an adapter that reversed the male & female hood thingy. I have no idea what it is called so if anyone cares to share, please do so. It is about just over an inch in length.

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    Dashboard Genie FTW

    Quote Originally Posted by Titus Maximus View Post
    Dashboard Genie

    I've had this for a couple of months. A co-worker has the full size bar and I have the half size. It is worth EVERY penny. Sturdy. Here it is in action: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

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    Dinotte order

    Just ordered the new XML 3. Dinotte makes it easy to do business with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiveFreeThenDie View Post
    Dashboard Genie

    I've had this for a couple of months. A co-worker has the full size bar and I have the half size. It is worth EVERY penny. Sturdy. Here it is in action: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink
    Yep. I've used the same thing for several years. Works great. it's made from AL and CF. You do have to be careful and do use a torque wrench to tighten no more than 5 nm. You can crush the handlebars if you are not careful.

    j.

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    Thanks for the great write up. Dinotte owes you as I just purchased a 1200L+, 400, and 300 tail light.

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    My shiny new XML-3 was just dropped off. It took 5 days to get here (Vanc, BC) including a weekend. Great effort by Rob at Dinotte.

    Light looks very nice. Hoping to get out for a ride tomorrow night to see how it goes and the improvement over the 400L (not updated).

    Weight doesn't seem too bad. Could almost use the light on the helmet direct without the helmet mount. The mount doesn't add that much weight but does add height. The height makes it easier to snag low lying branches and also leverages the weight making it feel heavier than it is.

    No comment as yet to the beam other than it looks equally bright to the 1200L+, but obviously not as wide.

    Stoked to get out and give it a go. Will post up some feedback once I have some trail time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rideitall View Post
    Does anyone running a 1200L+ use it on a bike with a riser bar. I can get the light to mount on the handlebar, but because of the rise on the bar the light sits quite tilted.

    Any suggestions other than to replace the bar with a flat one.

    Try mounting the light under the bar. I did this with my old 200L, on a set of riser bars with a corss brace, and it worked fine. The cables were so close to the light that it didn't effect the patern on the ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onobed View Post
    Thanks for the great write up. Dinotte owes you as I just purchased a 1200L+, 400, and 300 tail light.
    Excellent combination! Bars, helmet and tail light. the 300R is really a nice taillight.

    J.

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    XML-3 on the trails

    Got out for a ride last night with the new light. Had the 1200L+ on the bars and the XML-3 on the helmet.

    The reasonably light weight of the XML-3 light allowed it to be used on a XC helmet without any issues. I has the light pretty tight on the helmet mount and was able to do small adjustments up/down to get the light aimed correctly.

    The XML-3 works very well along side the 1200L+. It has a decent amount of flood, good throw and no detectable hotspots, and of course is very bright. Might even have to say as bright as the 1200L+. The 1200L+ I am running is from last year so it does not have the upgrades. The 1200L+ has more flood as one would expect, but lacks the punch (brightness) that the new XML-3 has.

    All in all a good mix with the two lights. Has me wondering if I should send in my 400L to be upgraded.

    that's all for now.

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