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  1. #1
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    New Dinotte XML-3, replaces 800L-Plus

    Looks nice.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Dinotte XML-3, replaces 800L-Plus-screen-shot-2011-09-01-1.28.23-pm.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post
    Looks nice.
    Great to see some commercial 3 XML lights hitting the scene, but only 1000 lumens?!

    But I've said it before and it saddens me to have to say it yet again... Dinotte's web site sucks. As a previous customer I won't argue that they had great products but they haven't a clue how to market them. It still amazes me why, year after year, they never have pictures of their latest lights prominently displayed.

    Someone with some web design skills and a digital camera help these guys out, please!
    Last edited by kwarwick; 09-04-2011 at 04:59 PM.

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    I cant agree more,their XPG version of the 800L+ was poorly advertised and most people didn't even know they upgraded their leds. I am surprised however that they have a XML lamp head out already. If they would just quit been so stubborn and make a larger battery they could drive their lights harder and compete with others. That tripple XML even underdriven should be 1400+ lumens but wont have much run time with the never ending 4 cell Dinotte battery.

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    I asked Rob about a 6 cell battery, he cited low demand and cost would be too high, that they have low prices on the 4 cell because it is their main battery.

    I don't see this myself, I think with big powerful lights comes a need for bigger batteries. They already have a 2 cell and 4 cell, I should think that they could keep costs down on a 6 cell since it would be made of the same cells as the other batteries. Just don't see that it should be a party breaker.

    As someone who just ordered a 1200L-Plus I would have happily ordered it with a 6 cell if that were an option.
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    That does look nice.

    //I'm still pretty happy with my 200L Dual setup I got ~4 years ago.
    When under pressure, your level of performance will sink to your level of preparation.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwarwick View Post
    Great to see some commercial 3 XML lights hitting the scene, but only 1000 lumens?!

    But I've said it before and it saddens me to have to say it again... Dinotte's web site sucks. As a previous customer I won't argue that they had great products but they haven't a clue how to market them. It still amazing me why, year after year they never have pictures of their latest lights prominently displayed.

    Someone with some web design skills and a digital camera help these guys out, please!
    Usually I'm very critical of the new DiNotte stuff. However this XM-L (3) I find very interesting. This light head is tailor made for people who want a bright light with a small footprint, somewhere around 1000 lumen but don't want a Chinese clone light. Yes the light is under-driven but this time ( unlike the 1200L+ ) it makes more sense due to the size. If you want 3 x XM-L's driven to the max you will need a larger battery and a larger light head to dissipate the heat. This new offering from DiNotte looks like the perfect compromise in a compact product. If it is a "True 1000 lumen "lamp, it should do well as long as the beam tint is not too blue/green/yellow...etc...and the beam pattern a good mix of flood and throw. Can't wait to see some user beam pics. I figure the run time on high to be somewhere around 2.5hr using the standard 4-cell. Can't wait to see these in a shootout. The light head is $200 for people who already have the battery and charger. *I think I'd buy one of these over one of the new Niterider 1500 even if the Niterider was brighter. ( * that is if NR is still putting the drivers in the battery ) SO....are there any beam pics of these lights yet?

  7. #7
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    Looks like a good candidate for a helmet light except for the stupid o-ring mount. I have a 200L that i used on my helmet recently when my Stenlight battery crapped out. What a pain in the ass it is to adjust the beam up or down compared to a hinged mount! Looks like they had a good mount with the 600L. Why they have gone back to o-rings and rubber straps is beyond me. Must be a rubber fetish. I've got to agree on the website too. Pretty lame. But not as lame as Stenlight's site that hasn't been updated in about 5 years. StenLight - Advanced Lighting Products They are also even more clueless about marketing. They make a tough light though, just a little behind the times on emitters. They are fixated on Luxeons for some reason.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titus Maximus View Post
    Looks like a good candidate for a helmet light except for the stupid o-ring mount. I have a 200L that i used on my helmet recently when my Stenlight battery crapped out. What a pain in the ass it is to adjust the beam up or down compared to a hinged mount! Looks like they had a good mount with the 600L. Why they have gone back to o-rings and rubber straps is beyond me. Must be a rubber fetish. I've got to agree on the website too. Pretty lame. But not as lame as Stenlight's site that hasn't been updated in about 5 years. StenLight - Advanced Lighting Products They are also even more clueless about marketing. They make a tough light though, just a little behind the times on emitters. They are fixated on Luxeons for some reason.
    I think you mean SSC but yes I think that is over as Cree is the apparent reining ruler for most bike set-ups.....Still, you're right about the rubber mount stuff as it is a PITA. I was however able to get good use out of my 200L helmet mount by using it with my MS 808E. I had to use a couple different sized O-rings but it works and works well. The locking strap system on the helmet mount works well and was a well thought out design. Once you get the light head aimed right it pretty much stays in place but I miss the days of easy tilt-able lamps though. The Marwi's and the DiNotte 600L had great mounts.

    I wonder if you'll be able to adapt the new XML-3 to the older 600L mounts?

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    Slightly off topic, but after maybe 6 rides. With my Piko 3, I love that it easily can be titled up/down on the fly. No left/right adjustment but mounted on my helmet that doesn't affect me.
    Last edited by randyharris; 09-04-2011 at 08:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    I think you mean SSC but yes I think that is over as Cree is the apparent reining ruler for most bike set-ups.....Still, you're right about the rubber mount stuff as it is a PITA.
    No, I mean Philips Lumileds Luxeon Rebel 100 LEDs. As far as I know, that was their most recent emitter upgrade.

    I wonder if you'll be able to adapt the new XML-3 to the older 600L mounts?
    Possibly, or, possibly, you could do what I did with my 1200L+ using Cateye parts.
    new dinotte light looks interesting
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titus Maximus View Post
    No, I mean Philips Lumileds Luxeon Rebel 100 LEDs. As far as I know, that was their most recent emitter upgrade.


    Possibly, or, possibly, you could do what I did with my 1200L+ using Cateye parts.
    new dinotte light looks interesting
    Okay, I've not heard or seen any postings of DiNotte using the Rebel emitters so that is news to me. I know that Bikeray has used them but not DiNotte. I know that the 1200L+ was using XP-G's and I've read that the other lamps were up-graded as well. I assumed it was XP-G around the board. Do you know what lamps are using the Rebel's?

    Oh and BTW, the Cateye mount mod is nice. Sooner or later the Companies that are selling the lights with rubber band and O-ring type mounts are going to get the message that A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THEM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Okay, I've not heard or seen any postings of DiNotte using the Rebel emitters so that is news to me.
    I was referring to the Stenlight S7 Premium light.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titus Maximus View Post
    I was referring to the Stenlight S7 Premium light.
    Doh!.... Well actually I was just testing you.

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    Emailed Rob to see if they are doing anything with the 600L or have abandoned it. Either the new 1000+ or possibly an update to my 400L could do the trick for the helmet light.

    I would also like the 1200+ to have more punch. It is very wide in its' throw but does lack the punch to push the light far enough. Perhaps driving the leds a little harder would be the thing to do, but as noted a larger capacity battery would be required for a reasonable runtime.

    I like the Dinotte lights I have, but they still leave you wanting a little more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rideitall View Post
    I would also like the 1200+ to have more punch. It is very wide in its' throw but does lack the punch to push the light far enough. Perhaps driving the leds a little harder would be the thing to do, but as noted a larger capacity battery would be required for a reasonable runtime.
    I think in addition to a larger battery pack for run times over 2 hours on high, the light head would have to be larger to dissipate the heat if they used a higher current. For instance, the new Hope R8 weighs 480 g with battery and the 1200L+ weighs 360 g with battery, both using a four cell battery.

    The beam can be played with to some extent as the optics are user replaceable. I believe they are using the 24mm diameter Carclo Quad optics as shown on this page: Cutter Electronics My guess is they are using the 10622 and 10624 optics, but I would check with Dinotte to be sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideitall View Post
    Emailed Rob to see if they are doing anything with the 600L or have abandoned it. Either the new 1000+ or possibly an update to my 400L could do the trick for the helmet light.

    I would also like the 1200+ to have more punch. It is very wide in its' throw but does lack the punch to push the light far enough. Perhaps driving the leds a little harder would be the thing to do, but as noted a larger capacity battery would be required for a reasonable runtime.

    I like the Dinotte lights I have, but they still leave you wanting a little more.
    About the 600L issue: Yes, sure would be nice to see the offer of a brighter LED upgrade..OR...perhaps offer a trade in discount ( head for head ) so to speak. Now if DiNotte could offer the newer XML-3 for $150 with a 600L ( light head ) trade in, I just might be wiling to go that route...provided there is some way to adapt the XML3 head to the old 600L mount which I still like better than rubber straps.

    The DiNotte 1200L+ could probably work fine with a little more current but than it would need a 6-cell ( or 4 x 26650 ) battery to get you decent run time on high. I also agree that it could use a little more punch ( throw ). Too bad they don't give you the option of special ordering. If they did you could either order one quad with XP-E the other with XP-G. That should give you a better mix of flood and throw or maybe double quad XP-E's for the total throw monkeys. Yeah, you might have to wait for the order longer but it would be worth the wait to get what you really want.

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    Dinotte XML-3

    Just got the XML-3 and compared to my Dinotte200L, 400L, and 600L. Just by my eyes, it seems like it is at least 1200 lumens. It is much brighter than both and flood pattern more than spot. But, the flood is as bright as the spot on my L&M HID! What a light. Size is between 200L and 600L. The constant light level in the fast flash mode is as bright as the 400L so this will make an excellent sunny day driver alert light and it will be bright enough at night to use in fast flash mode. No run times yet.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by davisek524 View Post
    Just got the XML-3 and compared to my Dinotte200L, 400L, and 600L. Just by my eyes, it seems like it is at least 1200 lumens. It is much brighter than both and flood pattern more than spot. But, the flood is as bright as the spot on my L&M HID! What a light. Size is between 200L and 600L. The constant light level in the fast flash mode is as bright as the 400L so this will make an excellent sunny day driver alert light and it will be bright enough at night to use in fast flash mode. No run times yet.
    Hummm....First big question; Does it look like you can remove the rubber strap mount without too much problem? Second question; Would you say the XM-L(3) has better distance throw than the 600L ? ( hopefully you have a standard optic 600L ) I suspected the XML3 would be more flood. That should make it an excellent bar light. I just hope it still has some throw. If it's as bright as you say then it should.

    Anyway can you do some outside beam pics?

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    Dinotte SML-3 mount

    Yes, it is easily removed with a Philips screw driver. This reveals a recessed screw socket and the cooling fins have been cut away to allow a cylindrical bushing to provide a flat interface with the mounting bracket. The throw is better than the 600L but much more of a flood. Maybe my eye ball guess of 1200 lumens is a bit low? I really don't know how to estimate and I have no way to measure.

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    As there was no options on Dinotte's website where i could see lamp head specks, dementions, weight, would you be able to share your impressions??

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    Dinotte XML-3 light comments

    Rob has not posted any documentation on his XML series of lights yet. He usually provides weight and this one does seem to be between the 200L and 600L in size and weight. I have asked him for different lenses and he has provided some but I have not asked for any different lenses for the XML-3. It is so bright and has more throw than the 400L and 600L that I really don't need it.

    His lights may not have the best mounts and I have read some of the quibbles that some folks have with them, but I have tried many lights and Rob's seem to be the best compromise of size, weight, durability, run times, charge times, brightness, modes, batteries, charger, connectors, cost, customer service --the whole package--and, he has the best tail lights which is very important to me as a road rider who wants to be visible to motorists. Other lights may be better than these in a specific aspect, but I think Dinottes are the best overall even though they may not excel in any one area compared to others.

    I use these lights for day time visibility to motorists and night time road riding. The daytime visibility is very effective when doing down hill runs in residential districts where there is a danger of cars pulling out in front of you because they don't see you.

    I will try to do some outside beam shots, but I have never done this before.

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    Long story short I have both the 1200L-Plus dual quad XPG Dinotte, and the new XML-3 light. I'm going to make the final decision and keep the winner.

    Unfortunately the battery needs to be charged! But here are some pictures.

    Dinotte 1200L-Plus lighthead weighed 5.0 ounces 141.7 grams
    Dinotte XML-3 lighthead weighed 3.7 ounces, 105 grams

    Here are thumbnail pictures, click on any of them for a larger image.









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    Thanks Randy. Nice that you have both lights to compare with. I can't wait to hear how they compare in both throw and spread. One poster already commented that the XM-L 3 had more throw than a 600L so I can't wait to hear your opinion on how it compares to the 1200L+.

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    These are in our conference room with all lights off, pitch black other than the Dinotte lights.

    iPhone 4 pictures using the Camera+ app.

    I forgot to measure, but the wall was approximately 30 feet away.

    Dinotte 1200L-Plus
    (click on image for larger view)



    Dinotte XML-3
    (click on image for larger view)


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    I know photos can be deceiving especially with indoor shots, but that XML3 looks brighter to me???

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    I would say the 1200 was hotter, the XML-3 more evenly dispersed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    I know photos can be deceiving especially with indoor shots, but that XML3 looks brighter to me???
    I would say just the opposite. the 1200+ has a much larger hot spot which looks at least as bright as the very center of the XML3 beam, also a bit more spill into the corners of the room. I guess brightness is in the eye of the beholder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post
    I would say the 1200 was hotter, the XML-3 more evenly dispersed.
    Hard to tell from wall tests but but I agree the 1200 looks like it is supplying more light ( as it should ). Still, the beam pattern on the XML3 looks to have a very smooth transition from center hot spot to wider spill. Oh, I almost forgot. I noticed the XML3 is using a dispersing lens. I can't help but wonder what the beam pattern would look like with a clear ( anti-reflective ) lens. You would likely lose some of the spill but I bet the throw would increase big time.

    RH, anyway you can do a quick run-time test with the XML3? Damn, trigger finger is starting to itch again.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Oh, I almost forgot. I noticed the XML3 is using a dispersing lens. I can't help but wonder what the beam pattern would look like with a clear ( anti-reflective ) lens. You would likely lose some of the spill but I bet the throw would increase big time.
    That XML3 picture shows that it is using the Ledil Cute3 SS optic. The dispersion texture is molded on the optic face. That is the tightest beam of that series of Ledil optics. I'd sure like to see Ledil produce that optic in an RS pattern.

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    I was super busy yesterday evening and never got outside in the dark to play with the lights, busy this morning as well, but I did manage to get back behind my house in the alley a little after 5:30AM this morning to check out the lights. You can see from the sky that there was a little ambient light, but not much.

    Honestly I didn't have enough time to play with them, just made a few quick comparisons and snapped some shots with my point and shoot.

    These pictures don't illustrate very well the brightness of the lights, keep that in mind. The 1200L is definitely brighter but that isn't as clear in the pictures as it is in person.

    To my eyes after just a couple minutes, I noticed that the XML3 is not a whole lot brighter than the Piko 3, but whereas the Piko 3 has it's 22 degree pattern, it has very little light outside of that pattern. The XML3 has it's main beam pattern but then spills out more light to the periphery where the Piko 3 is far darker out of that main beam.

    The 1200 is definitely brighter than the XML3. In looking at the pictures it looks like the XML has broader flood. I didn't really notice that in person, maybe because I was more focused on the amount of light. The 1200L also has far more throw than does the XML3. I didn't measure to that telephone post, but it's probably in the neighborhood of 150 feet away.

    I'll try and play more with these and report what I see.

    btw - I don't see where Rob has mentioned it on the website, but I feel safe in saying this since the new light is shipping. This 1200L-Plus is a new shipping model that has been increased in output from the version that has been shipping since it was introduced. So the XML3 vs 1200L-Plus, just keep in mind that this 1200L-Plus I'm comparing against has more light than does the 1200L-Plus that has shipped up to this week.

    edit: I've removed these pictures, trail shots in a newer post.
    Last edited by randyharris; 09-15-2011 at 05:54 PM.
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    haha, you know it's hard to tell from these beam patterns. But know I am second guessing if I mislabeled the XML3 and the 1200L-Plus beam shots. I'll double check soon...
    Last edited by randyharris; 09-14-2011 at 04:07 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    RH, anyway you can do a quick run-time test with the XML3? Damn, trigger finger is starting to itch again.
    I am going for a early morning ride tomorrow leaving the house at about 5AM and plan to be home by about 7:15AM. In efforts of testing the run time, maybe what I can do it stick to turn it on high and leave it in the freezer from 4:30AM to 5:AM while I'm getting ready. That gives 2 hours and 45 minutes of total time. Rob said it should burn on high for 2.5 hours.

    Oh geez, listen to me - light in the freezer... What kind of nonsense is this. OK Cat, just for you, I'll get up at 3:45AM and get out the door by 4:15AM and go do a pre-ride before I meet my mates at 5:30. That gives me 3 full hours to see how long the XML runs on high. I assume the backlit button changes colors, I'll try and note how long it goes before changing but no promises on that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post
    .....btw - I don't see where Rob has mentioned it on the website, but I feel safe in saying this since the new light is shipping. This 1200L-Plus is a new shipping model that has been increased in output from the version that has been shipping since it was introduced. So the XML3 vs 1200L-Plus, just keep in mind that this 1200L-Plus I'm comparing against has more light than does the 1200L-Plus that has shipped up to this week.
    Uh...and where did you hear this from? Not that I'm doubting you because what you said about the 1200L+ confirms what my eyes are telling me.

    I couldn't help but notice that the 1200L+ you have is throwing much more than the original ( debut ) model. I think the difference is the optics but that's just my guess. It looks like the spill dropped down a tad to the sides ( compared to original ) but the new(er) version is much better IMO. Kudo's to DiNotte for making this adjustment. Looks like the new(er) 1200L+ is now covering all the bases...throw and spill....

    The XML3 on the other hand looks like it suffers from loss of throw. Hard to tell from the photos because you have no distance references ( markers ). The trade off ( with the optics being used ) is that you get excellent ( close in ) peripheral illumination. Some people might like that but IMO if you're going to use this as your main bar light ...well...personally I would like more throw. With the lens that is being used it might be okay on the high mode but I have a feeling that when you go to the lower levels the throw is going to completely suck. Such is the effect when using a lens that disperses the light. Would be nice if the lenses used on these could be switched out to clear ( if that is what you wanted ). You would lose some of that excellent ( close in ) side illumination but I could deal with that ( speaking for myself ) .

    Randy, is there any way you can remark the photos to indicate a progression of distance? ( as that would be super helpful in judging throw. )

    (**edit...about the run time test: Don't knock yourself out. I mean, most of us just do a inside the house test using a small fan for cooling. This way you can kick back, watch your favorite shows and just check it out when the maximum expected run time draws near. )
    Last edited by Cat-man-do; 09-14-2011 at 03:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Uh...and where did you hear this from? Not that I'm doubting you because what you said about the 1200L+ confirms what my eyes are telling me.

    I couldn't help but notice that the 1200L+ you have is throwing much more than the original ( debut ) model. I think the difference is the optics but that's just my guess. It looks like the spill dropped down a tad to the sides ( compared to original ) but the new(er) version is much better IMO. Kudo's to DiNotte for making this adjustment. Looks like the new(er) 1200L+ is now covering all the bases...throw and spill....

    The XML3 on the other hand looks like it suffers from loss of throw. Hard to tell from the photos because you have no distance references ( markers ). The trade off ( with the optics being used ) is that you get excellent ( close in ) peripheral illumination. Some people might like that but IMO if you're going to use this as your main bar light ...well...personally I would like more throw. With the lens that is being used it might be okay on the high mode but I have a feeling that when you go to the lower levels the throw is going to completely suck. Such is the effect when using a lens that disperses the light. Would be nice if the lenses used on these could be switched out to clear ( if that is what you wanted ). You would lose some of that excellent ( close in ) side illumination but I could deal with that ( speaking for myself ) .

    Randy, is there any way you can remark the photos to indicate a progression of distance? ( as that would be super helpful in judging throw. )
    I'll see if I can get some markers, please understand I had about 10 minutes start to finish for this photo shoot exercise...

    the detail came straight from Rob. the 1200L-Plus has had a change to the light head and has an increased light output and decreased runtime on the same battery. 20% increase in light is what Rob told me.

    I'm riding with the XML-3 tomorrow morning. I'll have the opportunity to try it solo and with my Piko 3 helmet light going.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    personally I would like more throw
    As anything we all have slightly different situations and needs. I ride a rigid single speed in rough technical terrain so I am more concerned with the up close lighting than more throw.
    ONE SHOX, ONE GEAR, LOTS of FUN! www.TrailFu.com My Rides

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    Dude, you are so fast.
    I updated my last post and before I did you posted twice.

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    What was i thinking,,that the XML3 looks brighter The outdoor shots show the 1200L+ having much more light, plus more punch than i ever expected to see based on the criticism it has received in the past for been a flood monster but lacking throw. I didn't expect it to have that much more punch than the XML3. The XML3 though sure has a nice beam in it's own right, very smooth all the way to the outer edge of the spill,,, i likey!!

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    That XML3 is looking good. My old 600 needs a new battery anyway so why not just upgrade i think and still use my old batteries with the 600 as a bar light.

    Just waiting now for your estimated run times and more confirmed bean shots.

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    Teaser...

    I went riding this morning and rode with the XML-3 solo, the 1200L-Plus solo, and each of those two at times in conjunction with my Lupine Piko 3.

    I have some definite thoughts about them, ah, but it is lunch time right now. Back Later with my thoughts.
    ONE SHOX, ONE GEAR, LOTS of FUN! www.TrailFu.com My Rides

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    Here are my thoughts on the DiNotte XML-3 and the new 1200L-Plus lights after 1 morning of riding with them. I rode with each light by itself and also rode with each light AND my LupinePiko 3 helmet light. Riding with the Lupine Piko 3 by itself for a few weeks, I knew it wasn't a big flood, but it oddly seems to have a tighter beam than I would have described before riding it with the DiNotte's. Not that I feel it is too spot'ish, just that the more flood pattern of the DiNotte's put the Piko's beam into better perspective. I do wonder if some of the 'spotishness' of the Lupine Piko relative to the DiNotte's could be because it was shooting down from my helmet, a much steeper angle to the ground than the lights mounted on the bar.

    This morning in full darkness I rode many sections of trails, turned around and rode it with the other light so that I could compare. I wasn't able to make it down any gnarly descents before it started getting light, but I certainly ran some high speed, and slow technical areas.

    Let me say up front, I can't advise anybody to ride with a bar light only. I hadn't done that in years and it was a grave reminder how you can get caught out because the bar light isn't always pointing where you are looking. One high speed corner in particular I was going near 20mph and entered a tight corner, I was turning into near darkness because the bar light was pointing more in front of my while I was turning hard right. Wished that I had the Piko 3 on for that section, scared the crud out of me.

    RUNTIME:
    Cat, Rob told me that the XML-3 would get 2.5 hours of run time. He's clearly a liar, I turned the light off after 3 hours and it was going strong. I didn't notice at what time the indicator light went from Blue to Red, but I noticed it was red at about 2h45m. At the 3h point I just turned it off, didn't see the need to run it fully empty. Even though I was switching lights a bit I think this is fairly accurate as running the XML-3 by itself. At times I ran the 1200L on full and at times the middle setting so overall I figure the time I was on the 1200L it approximated the drain of the XML-3 on full.

    OVERVIEW:
    Both lights are really nice, the feel like they are well made machine parts when you hold them, and after using them for a few hours my opinion hasn't changed. Several people moan about the mounts, I did find them tilting down when I hit rough sections fast, but I stopped and cinched up the strap one notch and that seemed to solve the problem. I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

    XML-3 the XML-3 is a really nice light, it has noticeable more flood than does my Piko. It is not a spot pattern, though it is brighter in the center of the beam than is the Piko. The Piko is really flat throughout it's beam. The XML-3 worked like a champ and it is well complemented with the Piko on my helmet. When both lights are aimed at the same spot they pretty much meld together and it's honestly not a ton brighter than with the XML-3 by itself, when I turn my head the beam magically splits and lights up in front of my and wherever I looked. Running the XML-3 by itself leaves a lot of shadows pointing away from you just from the angle of the light hitting the ground in front of you. When the helmet light was on, the shadows virtually disappeared. Riding up to and over a rise, it was dark on the other side of the rise with bar light only, much nicer with the helmet light on. Already discussed turning and bar lights only above.

    My take away from the XML-3 is that it puts out a lot of light, has a good amount of light flooding around the main beam which is well dispersed, but a bit brighter in the center.

    New 1200L-Plus: Wow.

    That about sums it up. The new 1200L-Plus on medium is very similar to the XML-3 on high. The 1200L has a bit more flood than the XML-3, and it has a more evenly distributed beam pattern like the Piko - the 1200L-Plus on medium doesn't have that spot within a flood look about it. Which is really quite remarkable considering it's a dual quad with different lenses.

    Turn the 1200L-Plus on FULL and holy sh*t there is a serious amount of light coming from this light head. Now to be honest it didn't wow me as much just standing still and A-B from the XML-3 to the 1200L-Plus. Yes it had more light but not draw dropping. But was really stunned me was out on the trail riding and seeing the difference between the two lights on full power. There is absolutely nothing wrong or lacking with the Piko helmet and XML-3 on the bar. But switch the bar to the 1200L-Plus and d*amn there really is a difference. While riding, I appreciate the bigger flood beam pattern of the 1200L-Plus, it really is broader than the XML-3. And for high speed sections it just lights everything up when on full.

    I am going to thinking about this a bit more, but I can't imagine not keeping the 1200L-Plus at this moment in time. My setup would be to run it on medium a lot of the time, and crank it up to full power for higher speed sections and all descents. The fact of the matter is that the $90 difference in the price of the two lights, while an amount that I appreciate and value, isn't so much that I'm not willing to sport it for the bigger light. If having those extra lumens and bigger flood prevent me from one accident I'll consider it to have been money very well spent.

    I really wasn't too concerned about the throw of the lights, but for those of you that like good throw, without question the 1200L-Plus has far more throw than the XML-3 and the Piko lights did.



    PICTURES DISCLAIMER:
    These pictures do not accurately illustrate the intensity or amount of light. They do give a footprint of the beam pattern and slightly to the intensity - but I can't express enough that the pictures in no way show clearly the distinctions that I was able to view in person. Also - I apologize that the lights weren't always aimed at the exact same spot - this is all new to me and I didn't do a good job in that regard.

    The purplish tint in some of the photos is chromatic aboration, you don't see that, it is a failing of my camera.



    PICTURES:

    I have four sets of pictures below, click on the images for larger images. Remember my disclaimer above.

    SET 1




    SET 2




    SET 3




    SET 4
    ONE SHOX, ONE GEAR, LOTS of FUN! www.TrailFu.com My Rides

  41. #41
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    Nice review Randy
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
    For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking


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    A big +1

    I have to say that i have a new respect for Dinottes products. Also that they look to be as honest with their lumen claims on the two products reviewed here as Lupine. Clearly to me with your extra photo's and reviews of what your eyes are seeing the 750 lumen Piko takes third place of the three, and that all photo's and descriptions are accurately depicted by their honest claims.

    Can you confirm if there was a change in the 1200L+ you tested, over last years model? And if there was a change was it just the optics, or a driver upgrade? Just asking because there doesn't seem to be any issue with punch at all as previously criticized!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Can you confirm if there was a change in the 1200L+ you tested, over last years model? And if there was a change was it just the optics, or a driver upgrade? Just asking because there doesn't seem to be any issue with punch at all as previously criticized!!
    Confirmed the 1200L-Plus is an updated version as of just this week. My understanding is that it is a driver upgrade, pumping more power to the LED's, nothing to do with optics. Runtime is lower with this new version. Assuming I keep the 1200L-Plus-New (haha) the lower runtime doesn't really bother me since I think I'd be in the middle mode maybe 75% of the time, and in the high mode the rest.
    ONE SHOX, ONE GEAR, LOTS of FUN! www.TrailFu.com My Rides

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    I wonder if there is a six cell just around the corner? At Dinotte's price point they could afford to charge more for the six cell option easily. They are right there with the two lights you reviewed, quality,performance,and well priced. Your review sure opened my eyes.Thanx!! Dinotte now needs to upgrade their website so people can understand their new line-up more clearly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    I wonder if there is a six cell just around the corner? At Dinotte's price point they could afford to charge more for the six cell option easily. They are right there with the two lights you reviewed, quality,performance,and well priced. Your review sure opened my eyes.Thanx!! Dinotte now needs to upgrade their website so people can understand their new line-up more clearly.
    btw - I should point out, that I am just a dude who mountain bikes in the dark. I received no special deals or compensation, I am paying for my DiNotte light just like I paid for my Lupine Piko. I have gone through a lot of researching and second guessing about what for some reason strikes me as an important purchase. And I am trying to throw some of what I found from this process out here for other like minded individuals. Just thought maybe I should make that clear, no kind words have been written for any reason other than my experience so far and from no externalities.

    Regarding the battery, I asked Rob about a 6 cell, he said that by only offering a 4 cell it keeps his prices down... But they do have a 2 cell battery two. ??? Who knows. I would think a 6 Cell makes sense, but maybe he just can't do it at a competitive price point. I think the 1200L and guys who go for long rides with the other high powered lights would appreciate a 6 cell battery.

    edit: Rob's answer was to just pick up a second 4 cell for long run times - not a terrible solution, but I prefer the single battery pack myself.
    ONE SHOX, ONE GEAR, LOTS of FUN! www.TrailFu.com My Rides

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    One would think (two) four cell battery's would cost more than a six cell, and be more weight to carry around. Come on Rob,,,,,, just do-it!!!

  47. #47
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    Randy, thanks for taking the time to do all those photo's.

    It really is hard to take much from this though without distance references but the fact that you did these while on a ride explains a lot. Not to mention that you probably weren't using a tripod.

    The first set of photos ( in the tunnel ) were the most useful. While the 1200Lplus is the obvious brightest of the bunch I'm still impressed with the XML-3. From the photos, the throw on the XML3 comes real close to the 1200L+. I think the XML3 would be a great light to own for either mountain or road biking but like you said the 1200L+ is definitely the light to own for mtb'ing if you can afford the extra money.

    The Piko 3 is what it is. It is very obvious from the beam pattern that it was basically designed for helmet use. I refer to beam patterns like the Piko's as being "confined". Not a spot or medium flood but a beam pattern confined to a set radius with almost no spill. I have a 4/up XR-E helmet light that mimics the same pattern and it makes a great helmet lamp. I don't think I would use the Piko3 on the bars unless it was for road use but when used on the helmet it should be fine for either.

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    Great job, Randy!

    That confirms my experience between Dinotte and Lupine - Dinotte is much more floodier than is Lupine and I think the characterization of Lupine as a "confined" beam is apt.

    I tend to use my lights on the road, so I want less flood and more light in the confined area in which I ride. When I use the Wilma 1500/26 and the Piko 3 together, they will cover about 3/4s of a two lane rural road with full daylight bright beam and a lot less outside of that. That would be about the same as the hotspot of the Dinotte's but it's going to brighter in that hotspot lumen for lumen. That's why I think that you mention that the Piko seems close to the XML3 from Dinotte in it's main beam. The Lupine gets more light flux on a given point per lumen than does Dinotte. Dinotte has a wider floodier beam which is quite attractive in many applications too.


    J.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Great job, Randy!

    That confirms my experience between Dinotte and Lupine - Dinotte is much more floodier than is Lupine and I think the characterization of Lupine as a "confined" beam is apt.

    I tend to use my lights on the road, so I want less flood and more light in the confined area in which I ride. When I use the Wilma 1500/26 and the Piko 3 together, they will cover about 3/4s of a two lane rural road with full daylight bright beam and a lot less outside of that. That would be about the same as the hotspot of the Dinotte's but it's going to brighter in that hotspot lumen for lumen. That's why I think that you mention that the Piko seems close to the XML3 from Dinotte in it's main beam. The Lupine gets more light flux on a given point per lumen than does Dinotte. Dinotte has a wider floodier beam which is quite attractive in many applications too.


    J.
    I think that is pretty accurate. I use my Piko 3 by itself when road riding and it's great for that. For MTB I definitely prefer the DiNotte style 'spill'.
    ONE SHOX, ONE GEAR, LOTS of FUN! www.TrailFu.com My Rides

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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post
    I think that is pretty accurate. I use my Piko 3 by itself when road riding and it's great for that. For MTB I definitely prefer the DiNotte style 'spill'.
    Well, as a minimum.....

    The thing is, and watching you write about this all, you are now a lumen addict too. You can't have too many. While I *could* ride on the road with just my Piko 3, I never would when I add another 1500 lumens or so....

    J.

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