Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner

New Dinotte XML-3, replaces 800L-Plus

47K views 230 replies 59 participants last post by  Steve_N 
#1 ·
Looks nice.
 

Attachments

See less See more
1
#42 ·
A big +1:thumbsup:

I have to say that i have a new respect for Dinottes products. Also that they look to be as honest with their lumen claims on the two products reviewed here as Lupine. Clearly to me with your extra photo's and reviews of what your eyes are seeing the 750 lumen Piko takes third place of the three, and that all photo's and descriptions are accurately depicted by their honest claims.

Can you confirm if there was a change in the 1200L+ you tested, over last years model? And if there was a change was it just the optics, or a driver upgrade? Just asking because there doesn't seem to be any issue with punch at all as previously criticized!!
 
#43 ·
Can you confirm if there was a change in the 1200L+ you tested, over last years model? And if there was a change was it just the optics, or a driver upgrade? Just asking because there doesn't seem to be any issue with punch at all as previously criticized!!
Confirmed the 1200L-Plus is an updated version as of just this week. My understanding is that it is a driver upgrade, pumping more power to the LED's, nothing to do with optics. Runtime is lower with this new version. Assuming I keep the 1200L-Plus-New (haha) the lower runtime doesn't really bother me since I think I'd be in the middle mode maybe 75% of the time, and in the high mode the rest.
 
#44 ·
I wonder if there is a six cell just around the corner?:D At Dinotte's price point they could afford to charge more for the six cell option easily. They are right there with the two lights you reviewed, quality,performance,and well priced. Your review sure opened my eyes.Thanx!! Dinotte now needs to upgrade their website so people can understand their new line-up more clearly.
 
#45 ·
btw - I should point out, that I am just a dude who mountain bikes in the dark. I received no special deals or compensation, I am paying for my DiNotte light just like I paid for my Lupine Piko. I have gone through a lot of researching and second guessing about what for some reason strikes me as an important purchase. And I am trying to throw some of what I found from this process out here for other like minded individuals. Just thought maybe I should make that clear, no kind words have been written for any reason other than my experience so far and from no externalities.

Regarding the battery, I asked Rob about a 6 cell, he said that by only offering a 4 cell it keeps his prices down... But they do have a 2 cell battery two. ??? Who knows. I would think a 6 Cell makes sense, but maybe he just can't do it at a competitive price point. I think the 1200L and guys who go for long rides with the other high powered lights would appreciate a 6 cell battery.

edit: Rob's answer was to just pick up a second 4 cell for long run times - not a terrible solution, but I prefer the single battery pack myself.
 
#47 ·
Randy, thanks for taking the time to do all those photo's. :thumbsup:

It really is hard to take much from this though without distance references but the fact that you did these while on a ride explains a lot. Not to mention that you probably weren't using a tripod.

The first set of photos ( in the tunnel ) were the most useful. While the 1200Lplus is the obvious brightest of the bunch I'm still impressed with the XML-3. From the photos, the throw on the XML3 comes real close to the 1200L+. I think the XML3 would be a great light to own for either mountain or road biking but like you said the 1200L+ is definitely the light to own for mtb'ing if you can afford the extra money.

The Piko 3 is what it is. It is very obvious from the beam pattern that it was basically designed for helmet use. I refer to beam patterns like the Piko's as being "confined". Not a spot or medium flood but a beam pattern confined to a set radius with almost no spill. I have a 4/up XR-E helmet light that mimics the same pattern and it makes a great helmet lamp. I don't think I would use the Piko3 on the bars unless it was for road use but when used on the helmet it should be fine for either.
 
#48 ·
Great job, Randy!

That confirms my experience between Dinotte and Lupine - Dinotte is much more floodier than is Lupine and I think the characterization of Lupine as a "confined" beam is apt.

I tend to use my lights on the road, so I want less flood and more light in the confined area in which I ride. When I use the Wilma 1500/26 and the Piko 3 together, they will cover about 3/4s of a two lane rural road with full daylight bright beam and a lot less outside of that. That would be about the same as the hotspot of the Dinotte's but it's going to brighter in that hotspot lumen for lumen. That's why I think that you mention that the Piko seems close to the XML3 from Dinotte in it's main beam. The Lupine gets more light flux on a given point per lumen than does Dinotte. Dinotte has a wider floodier beam which is quite attractive in many applications too.


J.
 
#49 ·
Great job, Randy!

That confirms my experience between Dinotte and Lupine - Dinotte is much more floodier than is Lupine and I think the characterization of Lupine as a "confined" beam is apt.

I tend to use my lights on the road, so I want less flood and more light in the confined area in which I ride. When I use the Wilma 1500/26 and the Piko 3 together, they will cover about 3/4s of a two lane rural road with full daylight bright beam and a lot less outside of that. That would be about the same as the hotspot of the Dinotte's but it's going to brighter in that hotspot lumen for lumen. That's why I think that you mention that the Piko seems close to the XML3 from Dinotte in it's main beam. The Lupine gets more light flux on a given point per lumen than does Dinotte. Dinotte has a wider floodier beam which is quite attractive in many applications too.

J.
I think that is pretty accurate. I use my Piko 3 by itself when road riding and it's great for that. For MTB I definitely prefer the DiNotte style 'spill'.
 
#51 ·
To clarify, I use the Piko 3 only on road rides, and the Piko 3 AND a bar light for MTB rides.

Not sure I'd call myself a lumen junkie or addict, but I certainly appreciate well lit roads and trails when riding without sunlight. Don't imagine I'll be changing my light setup for a very long time to come.
 
#52 ·
To clarify, I use the Piko 3 only on road rides, and the Piko 3 AND a bar light for MTB rides.

Not sure I'd call myself a lumen junkie or addict, but I certainly appreciate well lit roads and trails when riding without sunlight. Don't imagine I'll be changing my light setup for a very long time to come.
Ha. I've said that every year for the last 5 and every year I've bought a new light. Hey, you obsessed over this with the best of them. You'll be back....

There ought to be a 12 step program for lumen addicts.

J.
 
#54 ·
OK here are the money shots. I took my Panasonic Lumix point and shoot to my local park after dark to get some tripod shots with markers.

Each of the plastic bottles are 25 feet away, 25/50/75. I tried to pick a location with several trees around to illustrate the flood / spill decently.

Curious George is at the 100' marker. :)

24mm, F3.3, AWB.

First shot is an animated GIF that will cycle through the shots, then there are thumbnails of the individual images below, you can click on any of them for larger size images.














Hope this helps for anybody interested in these lights, and you should be interested - they're all great and at very nice price points.
 
#61 ·
OK here are the money shots.
Money shots indeed. I feel like we should pay you for all your hard work (Well, not really.). Nice job! I especially like the animated .gif. It has inspired me to learn how to do that. Also like the positioning of the near tree to show the spill. There is room for improvement however. Automatic exposure doesn't cut it for comparison shots. If possible, the camera needs to be set for full manual exposure. Likewise, white balance should be set to daylight or sunny. The exposure suggested in the beam thread on "DIY" is ISO-100, Exposure-6 seconds, Aperture-F4.0. Since many cameras do not have ISO 100, I would suggest:

ISO 200, Exp. 6 sec. and aperture F 5.6
or: ISO 400 6 sec. F 8.0
or: ISO 400 3 sec. F 5.6

I must say I am a bit perturbed by the news that you got a 1200L+ that has been juiced with more lumens out the front than mine. I demand equal lumens! :madman:
 
#57 ·
@RE1GN2: I could have aimed the 1200L a little higher to get more throw correct, but I tried aiming them all more or less at the same point, and to be somewhat how you'd have it for biking. Sorry you can't see the animated gif, I see it on my system hopefully it's not viewable only on Mac's.

@JohnJ80: I feel funny reminding you, but keep in mind these beamshots only show the pattern well not the intensity. Plus the fact that there is grass amplifies the light compared to road or dirt which is much more flat and neutral. The 1200 does have a broader pattern, and it does have more lumens in that main beam than does the XML3. And yes this picture in the park makes the difference more pronounced, but out on the trail or on Tarmac I don't think the difference is as obvious and I don't know about you, but I don't do much riding in the middle of our park. :)

The XML3 definitely puts out more lumens than the Piko 3, it just isn't clear by the shots. I noticed that the camera auto adjusted the exposure time and white balance so that may play small tricks on comparing.
 
#59 ·
@RE1GN2: I could have aimed the 1200L a little higher to get more throw correct, but I tried aiming them all more or less at the same point, and to be somewhat how you'd have it for biking. Sorry you can't see the animated gif, I see it on my system hopefully it's not viewable only on Mac's.

@JohnJ80: I feel funny reminding you, but keep in mind these beamshots only show the pattern well not the intensity. Plus the fact that there is grass amplifies the light compared to road or dirt which is much more flat and neutral. The 1200 does have a broader pattern, and it does have more lumens in that main beam than does the XML3. And yes this picture in the park makes the difference more pronounced, but out on the trail or on Tarmac I don't think the difference is as obvious and I don't know about you, but I don't do much riding in the middle of our park. :)

The XML3 definitely puts out more lumens than the Piko 3, it just isn't clear by the shots. I noticed that the camera auto adjusted the exposure time and white balance so that may play small tricks on comparing.
I guess I was thinking "beam", but you're right. Even given the compression of digital photography, the 1200L+ clearly throws light in a much wider beam (and what I was really thinking about anyhow). The exposure changes almost certainly made the XML3 and the Piko3 look the same or very similar. The Piko has two leds and the XML3 has three so one would presume it's about 50% brighter in overall lumens and probably 30% brighter just because Dinotte tends to have a wider beam and be very conservative in their drive. Does that sound about right?

J.
 
#71 ·
Hey check it out, Rob emailed me, he saw the pictures that I posted. He asked if I'd like to test two more DiNotte lights. I said sure, so he's sending over the 400L and the XML1.

Note, this is again an unpaid, endeavor, I'm not getting any compensation or free lights for doing this, just kind of fun.

I'll beg borrow or steal a real digital SLR for the next round of pictures so they come out more as an even better comparison. I may even take those lights out on the trail and offer my initial feedback on them.
 
#72 ·
Thanks for all the great information. I am not a light junky in the sense that I need more lumens but I appreciate the fact that Dinotte is becoming more reasonable in their price point. Now it is more realistic to consider Dinotte for a lighting solution.

Does anyone know what brand and capacity of battery Dinotte uses in their current packs?

I'm looking forward to Dinotte making some stand-alone lights... be-seen lights rather than seeing lights.
 
#73 ·
Randy, Once again, great pictures. I think the camera you're using is fine.
After this last series of photos I have some more comments:

The 1200L+ looks better every time I see it. Very nice beam pattern if I do say so. I think the D-people nailed it this time. ( finally ). If I was in the market for a bar mounted light to mountain bike with, this one would definitely be at the top of the list. As I see it the only thing that could make it better would be the option(s) for a bar remote and either a 6 cell battery or a 4-cell 26650 ( 8000mAh ) battery. For me the battery isn't an issue but if DiNotte had offered the 1200L+ with a remote option...well....need I say, I would be on this like a cat on a piece of fresh salmon. :thumbsup:

The following comment made after looking over my old DiNotte 600L beam pics:

The XML3 on the other hand ( while not bad ) I feel could use some tweaking. Too much of the output is lying too close to the bike. This light head has lots of potential. I feel the optic is restraining more of the beam than it should be. Something has to be done to make it better. Maybe a clear(er) lens or maybe a tad more current or perhaps a combo of both. With 3 x XM-L's this light should punch to 100ft, no questions asked. As it is right now most of the light is right in front and the throw struggles to reach beyond 75ft. I think this could be improved upon without too much trouble. I think the XML3 should mimic the beam pattern of a 600L but only be brighter and reach maybe 25ft further. If done right it will still have good perimeter coverage but will have better throw. The 600L could reach 100ft. and had a very good all-around usable beam pattern. The XML3 was "suppose to replace the 800L", but I bet you a tin of tuna that the original 800L could out throw the new XML3.

Lastly, I really am glad to see DiNotte taking steps to improve their products. This has been called for by many including myself for a long, long time. I am disappointed though that no official mention was made by DiNotte about all the new recent options and upgrades. Dinotte does have full advertising rights on MTBreview so I don't understand why Rob doesn't give a shout out ( on forum ) once in a while to let the peeps know "What's up" with DiNotte. Sure would be nice to hear about the new stuff straight from the horse's mouth.
 
#74 ·
Before I ordered the 1200+ I asked about a six cell battery, Rob stated his case for simply buying a second 4 cell, he makes a good case for it.

I would be interested in a bar mounted remote control switch as well. Also this may or may not be possible, but I would like to be able to set it to two mode operation, high and medium with no low.

Regarding the XML3, I found it to be a very capable light on the trail, a lot of light output in a good pattern. Keep in mind that I wasn't aiming the lights at curious George at the 100' mark, but closer in more like you would have it set for riding.
 
#75 ·
Anyone care to offer how this new Dinotte 1200+ might compare in output to the Magic Shine 872/856 1600 lumen lights (25 degree on both). My finger is getting real twitchey to buy a light and it's allot more money for the Dinotte (could buy 2 MS for 1 Dinotte) but it would be nice to support a US compnay and someone the next state over from me. If the light is better well icing on the cake....

BTW this will be paired with a 750 lumen Piko helmet light.

Silly question perhaps (new at this stuff) but why not pack the Dinotte 1200+ with XM-L's and get even more light out of it even if under driven? Would this be a potential upgrade down the road?
 
#76 ·
Anyone care to offer how this new Dinotte 1200+ might compare in output to the Magic Shine 872/856 1600 lumen lights (25 degree on both). My finger is getting real twitchey to buy a light and it's allot more money for the Dinotte (could buy 2 MS for 1 Dinotte) but it would be nice to support a US compnay and someone the next state over from me. If the light is better well icing on the cake....
The lenses will be better, the cooling will be better so the OTF lumens are probably considerably higher. Also it will be more reliable. There are only a handful of light suppliers that provide actual OTF (out the front) lumen measurements. Lupine is one, and Dinotte is moving in that direction. Most rate them using the theoretical maximum at their drive current of the LEDs. That doesn't take into account lenses, reflectors or actual performance as the LEDs heat up.

BTW this will be paired with a 750 lumen Piko helmet light.

Silly question perhaps (new at this stuff) but why not pack the Dinotte 1200+ with XM-L's and get even more light out of it even if under driven? Would this be a potential upgrade down the road?
Cooling. It's a small package and you can only get so much power density before it melts down. I'd guess that it will take the next generation of LED that is more efficient (more light at same power) to make for a successful upgrade.

J.
 
#79 ·
Hi,

I always adjust my lights on the bar for the most throw possible. This is much better to see things on the way coming up when driving fast (in order to be able to break early). All the rest of the light must be able to flood the ground... This is also much more comfortable for our eyes.

First of all thanks for the review and pics, great job! It's much work, I know. You got already some good hints how to improve your comparison and I would like to add also my input. It would be great to see some photos with the following settings like we use in our forum and which I used in my light comparison 2011 on lupine lights:

ISO 200
Exposure time: 2 sec
F4
focal length: something at 27mm KB or 35mm KB - I think your focal length is ok.

Use always same settings for all fotos otherwise they're not really comparable. If you'd like to show other beam behavior under different circumstances then choose another scenario and use again the same settings.

Use manual settings on the photo camera all the time for all photos and position the lights on the same place at the tripod with the same direction. The center pattern of the light must point at curious george. Also position curious george at 150 feet or at 300 feet.

The pico has a good range up to 200 feet and is able to flood the ground.

Best Regards
 
#82 ·
Of course it depends also on the speed and everyone has different needs, it's a matter of taste. So 2 scenarios would be great, one for the trail far closer and one for the most throw possible.

Sorry I forgot to translate KB. I mean: Focal Length In 35mm Film. But I think your focal length is ok like it is.
 
#83 ·
XML-3 on it's way to me

After a wet night ride last night, my old eyes told me I need more light.

The 400L on the helmet is no longer enough. I will use the XML-3 as a helmet light in conjunction with the 1200L+ on the bars.

My 1200L+ is the older one so it my not be quite as bright as the revamped one, but has lots of spread and decent throw. Once I get the XML-3 I will be back in business. Will post up some comments once I get a ride or two on it.

Cheers
J
 
#84 ·
The 400L on the helmet is no longer enough. I will use the XML-3 as a helmet light in conjunction with the 1200L+ on the bars.
J
The old 400L yes BUT...

I just received my upgraded "old 400L" back from Dinotte. This is essentially the exact same "new 400L Plus" that Dinotte has listed on their website. The 30% boost has brought lumen output to around 530L. Now powered by XPG emitters, new reflectors and more efficient circuitry, it might be something to consider since you already have the light engine (2 new lens options are also included).

The beam pattern is lovely. Very nice large hotspot that gradually blends outwards. I didn't think the 30% boost would do much initially but when I powered up, i was rightfully corrected. This thing has punch!

A $70 upgrade might be on the steep side but coupled with the fact that I love the 400L light engine design plus Dinotte's batteries and helmet mount are really solid in form and function (both which I already have), I'm a very happy camper.

Thanks Rob @ Dinotte.
 
#91 ·
Though I think the plugs are the same size, on Dinottes the "hood" is on the male side of the plug. On the Geoman, I think it's on the female end. So, they might be made compatible with a little surgery; a circumcision, so to speak. But that is purely speculation on my part.
 
#97 ·
My shiny new XML-3 was just dropped off. It took 5 days to get here (Vanc, BC) including a weekend. Great effort by Rob at Dinotte. :thumbsup:

Light looks very nice. Hoping to get out for a ride tomorrow night to see how it goes and the improvement over the 400L (not updated).

Weight doesn't seem too bad. Could almost use the light on the helmet direct without the helmet mount. The mount doesn't add that much weight but does add height. The height makes it easier to snag low lying branches and also leverages the weight making it feel heavier than it is.

No comment as yet to the beam other than it looks equally bright to the 1200L+, but obviously not as wide.

Stoked to get out and give it a go. Will post up some feedback once I have some trail time.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top