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  1. #1
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    Lupine Upgrade Kits?

    One of the reasons I chose a Wilma a couple of years ago was Lupine's support of upgradability. With the constant improvement in LED's, I opted to invest in something that could keep pace with developments in emitters at a fraction of the cost of a new system.

    So I'm now dismayed to find that the kits offered by Gretna are all downgrades from my current setup, and I can't seem to find any upgrade kits whatsoever on Lupine's website.

    Maybe everybody else knows what's going on here, but if anyone can clue me in, I would love to know. The newest iteration of the Wilma's looks stunning, and I'd love to be able to drop in a board and lenses to bump from 1400 to 2400 lm. (I think that's what my current Wilma's rated at...1400.)

    On a different, but related note, I really like the remote capability of the new Betty, but it's a shame they're not offering it on the Wilma platform. In my view, once the emitters get bright enough for everyone (okay, there will always be holdouts for 'brighter') then the smaller form factor and lighter weight of the Wilma will become more important than the increased lumens from the Betty. Who wants to put a Betty on their helmet? Not I. But a Wilma is just fine. Who wants a remote control for their helmet light? I would love one. But...see where I'm going with this? I think a remote control on a badass bright, Wilma form-factor light is a clear winner, and overall more versatile than Betty form factor. No hating here, I just like my gear to be as versatile as possible.

    If anyone knows what's up with the upgrade kits, please clue me in. Cheers.
    "I thought you'd never love me without my Mojo." -Austin Powers

  2. #2
    BBW
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    mtb123 even though Lupine offers/offered upgrade DIY kit there are other components that cannot be upgraded DIY. In the case of your 1400lm Wilma, the driver simply doesn't have the power to "drive" the new LED at any power to make it justifiable to create those DYI. To explain myself better lets say that Lupine develops a new DYI kit that include as you now the LED aray and the new lens designed to work with the new LED size/depth to just give you an increase of 300 lumens, would you pay 150$? I don't think many would and it would be too much money involved to not get any return. It would just not be profitable.
    Unfortunately we always want the latest and best, and we want it to last forever.

    Lupine has many excelent things including same connectors, chargers, etc to help you keep your current lamp working for as long as you want it to (and they would last an eternity!) but for good more than not, technology advance way faster to be able to upgrade every single version of their lights.
    As a side note, remember you can send your lamp to Germany to be upgraded in some cases.
    Also read a post a little down from this one regarding Lupine news
    Cheers

    PS: I have no problem using the Betty on my helmet, the key is to have a good fitting helmet and I don't have any issue with its weight. Heck the Piko with the small battery on your helmet is 180 grams and the Betty lighthead is somewhere around 150 grams!
    BBW. MS, RD

  3. #3
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    BBW - So the short version is that Lupine is no longer producing upgrade kits? If that's the case then I'll be switching back to Light and Motion for my next light. They're not upgradable either, but they have a superior beam pattern.
    "I thought you'd never love me without my Mojo." -Austin Powers

  4. #4
    BBW
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    for the "official" version you have to contact the guys at Gretnabikes or email Stephan (Wolf)
    I went to check the Seca sometime ago since I too like L&M but that light would never survive a crash and it looks like a 5 year old put it together LOL
    Cheers
    BBW. MS, RD

  5. #5
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    Update regarding upgrades for the Lupine Wilma

    I have two Lupine Wilma lampheads. One is the 1200 lumen version and the other is the 2400 lumen version. I can tell you what is going on with the upgrades.

    The 1200/1300/1500 versions of the Wilma came out in approximately August of 2011. They ran at 19 watts. The 1200 version had 4 XP-G LEDs. The 1300 lumen version had 2 XP-G and 2 XM-L. The 1500 lumen version had 4 XM-L LEDs.

    Two technical changes were made in order to upgrade the Wilma from 1200/1300/1500 lumens to 2400 lumens.

    #1) The watts were bumped from 19 watts to 28 watts.
    #2) The bin level on the XM-L LEDs was increased to U3.

    If you upgrade an 2011 19 watt 1500 lumen Wilma to the newer XM-L U3 LEDs, the output increases from 1500 lumens to 1700 lumens. My basis for saying this is that the owner's manual for the 2400 lumen version lists 1700 lumens as the output level at 19 watts.

    The increase from 1500 lumens to 1700 lumens is not very substantial. It seems that, as a result, Lupine never released a set of upgrade boards for the Wilma in 2012 or early 2013.

    Things are changing now though.

    The new 2800 lumen version of the Wilma uses 4 XM-L2 LEDs.

    If you drop a new LED board with 4 XM-L2 LEDs into the 19 watt 1200/1300/1500 lumen version of the Wilma, the output increases to 2050 lumens at 19 watts. My basis for saying that is that the owner's manual for the 2800 lumen version lists 2050 as the output at 19 watts.

    That is a substantial increase. Therefore, Lupine is releasing upgrade boards.

    The upgrade board can be found on the German website at Wilma (interner Taster) LED Upgrade-d595.

    I sent an email to Gretna Bikes on 10/30/13 to ask about the availability of these upgrade boards.

    Dan Haus replied on 10/31/13 and said, "We have them on order, and expect to receive the newest Wilma upgrades late next week, at which time they will go up on gretnabikes.com for order."
    Last edited by ab138501; 11-07-2013 at 07:12 PM.

  6. #6
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    Update regarding upgrades for the Lupine Wilma

    I have two Lupine Wilma lampheads. One is the 1200 lumen version and the other is the 2400 lumen version. I can tell you what is going on with the upgrades.

    The 1200/1300/1500 versions of the Wilma came out in approximately August of 2011. They ran at 19 watts. The 1200 version had 4 XP-G LEDs. The 1300 lumen version had 2 XP-G and 2 XM-L. The 1500 lumen version had 4 XM-L LEDs.

    Two technical changes were made in order to upgrade the Wilma from 1200/1300/1500 lumens to 2400 lumens.

    #1) The watts were bumped from 19 watts to 28 watts.
    #2) The bin level on the XM-L LEDs was increased to U3.

    If you upgrade an 2011 19 watt 1500 lumen Wilma to the newer XM-L U3 LEDs, the output increases from 1500 lumens to 1700 lumens. My basis for saying this is that the owner's manual for the 2400 lumen version lists 1700 lumens as the output level at 19 watts.

    The increase from 1500 lumens to 1700 lumens is not very substantial. It seems that, as a result, Lupine never released a set of upgrade boards for the Wilma in 2012 or early 2013.

    Things are changing now though.

    The new 2800 lumen version of the Wilma uses 4 XM-L2 LEDs.

    If you drop a new LED board with 4 XM-L2 LEDs into the 19 watt 1200/1300/1500 lumen version of the Wilma, the output increases to 2050 lumens at 19 watts. My basis for saying that is that the owner's manual for the 2800 lumen version lists 2050 as the output at 19 watts.

    That is a substantial increase. Therefore, Lupine is releasing upgrade boards.

    The upgrade board can be found on the German website at Wilma (interner Taster) LED Upgrade-d595.

    I sent an email to Gretna Bikes on 10/30/13 to ask about the availability of these upgrade boards.

    Dan Haus replied on 10/31/13 and said, "We have them on order, and expect to receive the newest Wilma upgrades late next week, at which time they will go up on gretnabikes.com for order."
    Last edited by ab138501; 11-07-2013 at 06:46 PM.

  7. #7
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    So for the Wilma, it is the same physical size as always, just a different led board and more powerful driver? Anyone ever ask Lupine what it costs to upgrade the driver in an older Wilma or have it done?
    '08 Turner Highline
    '00 DBR X6

  8. #8
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    I remember inquiring a few years back and my recollection is by the time you paid for shipping,,, costs on the driver upgrade, costs on the led board and optics, you were getting close to the $$$ it would cost for a new lamp head.

  9. #9
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    Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but when they went from the 1500 lumen Wilma to the 2400 one there was another big driver upgrade. The current upgrades on Gretna aren't the latest that Lupine has. They have some that get closer to the latest Wilma, but lack the driver upgrade.
    '08 Turner Highline
    '00 DBR X6

  10. #10
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    Correct,,, without a driver upgrade on any version of the Betty or Wilma,, the upgraded leds and optics only!! will give you maybe a few hundred more lumens. Now already pushing several thousand lumens you would be hard pressed to notice that.

  11. #11
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    So, I think I understand correctly now. With the "2013" upgrade my 17w Wilma (1100 lumen) would be around 1800 lumen with the upgrade? If I were to up the driver to 28w it would be the same as the current Wilma then?
    Here is a screen snip from the current Wilma manual:
    Lupine Upgrade Kits?-wilma.jpg
    '08 Turner Highline
    '00 DBR X6

  12. #12
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    My guess it will be more like +400 lumens at best.
    See here: Wilma (interner Taster) LED Upgrade-d595
    Your Wilma 17W/1100 lumen probably has the board/platine with 4/4/2+2 XML and/or XPG Leds, so my guess would be 400*17/19 = approx. 360 lumen, I'm inclined to predict you won't see much of a difference and the upgrade probably is not worth the money.
    On the other hand, if you have the 4 XPG board with 15degrees, the new lenses with 26 degrees will provide quite a change of the near field illumination suggesting an improvement of more than the numbers say. But I don't think the flood will change much.

  13. #13
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    I see that is the specs Lupine mentioned also but they still aren't clear as to what you are really getting with the upgrade. I also wonder how they are getting around 3200 lumen from just a board upgrade on the Betty at 26 watts when it takes almost 40 watts for the same output on the Betty R?
    '08 Turner Highline
    '00 DBR X6

  14. #14
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    I suspect the results of an upgrade on a Betty is better (in relation), because the Betty has 7 LEDs (Wilma only 4), with more LEDs the increase sums up on more leds thus on more "upgrade lumens".

  15. #15
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    It could be, I wonder if they are using all 7 on the upgrade board at once? Since they only can use 6 at once on the R that might give them a little extra oomph without overheating the center led.
    '08 Turner Highline
    '00 DBR X6

  16. #16
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    I asked Stefan from Lupine about what lumens I should get from upgrading my 17w Wilma and he said it would be around 1700 lumen. So it does sound like ab138501 is correct with the figures.
    '08 Turner Highline
    '00 DBR X6

  17. #17
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    Lupine Upgrade Kits?

    I just got two kits from Gretna. They're not as bright as a new lightheaded, but I'm happy!

    L&M still has a superior beam pattern for the bars.
    "I thought you'd never love me without my Mojo." -Austin Powers

  18. #18
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    Did you upgrade Wilma's? If so, what models were the lights before the upgrade and how much difference did you notice? I hear the Betty board is coming pretty soon. And is measured at 3000 lumens now with the last non-R version.
    '08 Turner Highline
    '00 DBR X6

  19. #19
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    Lupine Upgrade Kits?

    Yes, upgraded two Wilmas. One is a couple years old and second is a bit older than that. Can't quantify brightness increase in meaningful terms, except to say that I see it and I like it. Not super helpful, I know. Just trying to be real about it.
    "I thought you'd never love me without my Mojo." -Austin Powers

  20. #20
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    I installed one of the new upgrades to my XPG Wilma about a month ago. I really dislike the result. The main issue is the light leakage. The spill goes all the way to 180 degrees. Not only does it waste a huge amount of light where I don't need it, but it blinds me if I lean too far forward on a steep climb. I don't have this problem with any of my other lights.

    My second issue is the yellow spot. It seems to be a trait of the XML and XML2, especially when used with reflectors. I can tolerate it on a handlebar light, but it really bugs me on a helmet light.

    Other than the color, it works just ok as a helmet light. Too much light spent nearfield, and not enough farfield. The extra power didn't really give me any more reach from the spot, although it does light a larger area at a distance. It is sort of the "tweener" pattern that most manufacturers are migrating to: the spot is too narrow for the handlebar, but too wide for the helmet. Other than the color, I think it would make a good headlamp for hiking.

    Not sure what to do with the light at this point. I already have better bar and helmet lights, so maybe I will remove the optics and make it a full on flood light and mount it to a headband. It would also make a decent work light for under a car, with or without the optic. The spill will still be a nuisance, but I could put a tube around it to narrow it up and eliminate some of the glare. If I were motivated (and had any spare time) I would build an adapter and try some discrete optics instead of the Lupine optic. Most likely the whole thing will go back into the bin of obsolete parts.

    gerG
    ...uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill ...

  21. #21
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    No offense to g3rG, but I must respectfully disagree with you. Perhaps Lupine's quality control is spotty and we received some very different samples, or perhaps our requirements and expectations are simply different, I don't know. But I can say that unlike you, I am very satisfied with the upgrade kits. As stated earlier in the thread, I purchase two, and this allowed me to install one and then directly compare new Wilma side by side with old Wilma. The upgrade is significantly brighter in two respects - the bright center spot is brighter, but it is also significantly larger, and the overall area of spill and general illumination is much, much larger. My old Wilma looks like a narrow spot compared to the new Wilma, and yet it has as good or better overall throw. It's a tremendous improvement, greatly improving the Wilma's performance both on the bar and on the helmet (I prefer a good spot on the helmet with some spill, and while this is way more spill than what I require, I like it). As for light temp, both of mine are a nice neutral white. Don't know how you ended up with yellow.

    While I still prefer the beam pattern of the L&M Seca's, especially the latest iteration, I'm pretty pleased with my upgraded Wilmas as well. As stated in original post, ability to upgrade was one of the main reasons that I got the Lupine's in the first place.
    "I thought you'd never love me without my Mojo." -Austin Powers

  22. #22
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    Hi mtb143.

    I think that we agree more than disagree. The spot is definitely much larger, and at least as intense. That lights a larger area at a distance, with maybe a bit more perceived throw. If I were still using it as a helmet light, and was just comparing it to the old Wilma, I would probably have been content (although I would still be whining about the yellow tint, and still need more reach). However I now have other helmet lights, and the newer lights really raised the bar a lot. The Lupine retrofit just doesn't reach like any of my Gloworm lights, and it does not mount on my helmet as cleanly. For that reason I decided to try it as a handlebar light. The first thing that I noticed was that it lit up my front tire, and part of my fork. I set my bar light with the spot at or above the horizon, so it wasn't pointing down. When I got into the steep climbs I noticed the light spilling past the bezel. Basically if I get my eyes past the plane of the bezel I get dazzled. Maybe I will try a hood, or just mount it really far forward.

    Since you mentioned the Seca, I will pick on it next. Actually I think the Seca 1400 is the best handlebar light that I have ever owned. I picked up a Seca 2000, thinking it would be more and better. Instead I got a light pattern and tint that I do not like. It has amazing output, but I always get too much light right in front of the bike, where I am not supposed to be looking. I can probably tinker with the pattern on that one. Adding diffusion is much easier than adding focus.

    gerG
    ...uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill ...

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