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Thread: Lupine Piko

  1. #1
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    Lupine Piko

    New light to be announce soon.
    Lupine Piko.
    Here's a picture taken from Lupine's facebook page, the helmet light has been tagged as the Lupine Piko in the image below.

    Quote Originally Posted by LUPINE
    it's new, and it's small. mikro? nano? piko! more to be seen in two weeks at outdoor exhibition:http://www.outdoor-show.de/od-en//

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    The smaller the lighthead, the better it is on the helmet. I'm very interested in seeing this one.

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    Piko's beam shot from Lupine's website.


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    8W high power LED?? Anybody have an idea what LED they are using? Maybe it is just me, but that beamshot is not that impressive, too tight for my taste.


    I prefer a beamshot more like this (Cree XP-G R5)




    coming from a tiny housing like this





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    I prefer scars beam shot too. The Piko doesn't appear to put out enough light for my uses, but I do like to see new offerings though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueMountain
    The smaller the lighthead, the better it is on the helmet. I'm very interested in seeing this one.
    Small is better, but I doubt that you will really see small from the "mainstream" builders.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lupine Piko-micro2.jpg  

    Lupine Piko-micro3.jpg  


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    Well... they have a dog... and a Dinotte 400L???

    Name:  lupine_piko_dog.JPG
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    OK, joking aside, here is a comparison. It seems that the Piko will come with its own mount.

    The size is: B = 40 mm H = 24 mm T = 32 mm

    Lupine Piko-lupine_betty_vs_piko.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusHQ
    I prefer scars beam shot too. The Piko doesn't appear to put out enough light for my uses, but I do like to see new offerings though.
    You cannot compare the brightness of the two lights based on these photos directly. What scar was trying to say is that the Piko has spot lens, whereas his is more of a flood.

    The brightness of the Piko should be nearly equal to the old (non-XPG) Wilma. Which is not too bad actually...

  10. #10
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    The great thing about the XP-G mated with the Regina reflectors is that it is a combo of great throw with good flood characteristics. Pretty much perfect for me (and everyone that has seen in action)


    I agree, it is impossible to compare the two photos as the camera settings are probably different.




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    A little more info available on the Lupine site:

    http://www.lupine.de/web/en/products/lightheads/piko/


    But what I don't understand:
    8W and 550 lumen ==> 69 lumens per watt.
    Assuming they use XP-G, this does not make sense AT ALL. Shouldn't the lumen per watt figure be at least 1.5 times higher?

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    Quote Originally Posted by langen
    But what I don't understand:
    8W and 550 lumen ==> 69 lumens per watt.
    Assuming they use XP-G, this does not make sense AT ALL. Shouldn't the lumen per watt figure be at least 1.5 times higher?
    They are just one of the few companies being honest in stating the real world lumen rating. I suspect they actually measured the output of the light in an integrating sphere. Keep in mind the numbers you hear quoted by the LED makers are under very specific and ideal lab conditions. It's also not that hard to figure out a somewhat realistic real world value using the info in the datasheet.

    8W into an 85% efficient regulator gives 6.8 watts to the leds. That's right on the power consumed by two XPGs running at 1000ma

    XPG R5 at 350ma = 139 lumens
    250% increase for 1000ma drive = 348 lumens

    if you assume 10 degree-c/watt thermal resistance from LED to case plus the 6 degree-c/watt internal thermal resistance of the LED and a case temp of 30 degrees you can estimate the junction temp and the derating of lumens at that temp.

    30 + (16 x 3.3watt) = 83 C junction temp - about 88% of the lumens based on that Tj

    348 lumens * 0.88 = 306 lumen
    optics are typically around 90% efficient 306 * .9 = 275 lumen
    2 LEDs give 275 * 2 = 550 lumen

    I didn't really expect to get their exact number when I started this post, but there you go....I'd say their spec is pretty much right on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by radirpok
    You cannot compare the brightness of the two lights based on these photos directly. What scar was trying to say is that the Piko has spot lens, whereas his is more of a flood.

    The brightness of the Piko should be nearly equal to the old (non-XPG) Wilma. Which is not too bad actually...
    You are right, we can't compare the brightness between these two lights fairly with these pictures. I do still like the wider beamshot of the amoeba, but would be interested in seeing a comparison of the throw of each light.

    If the Piko is putting out the claimed lumens, which it probably is now that Lupine has seemed to broken out of their old ways of over inflating their lumen claims, then yes it should be fairly equal to the old Wilma output. As I have used an old Wilma 830 for a couple of years I can say that it put out a good amount of light and if the Piko at a mere 55grams can equal that then this is impressive and a good step for them. If I had not just recently upgraded my Wilma 830, which should now get about 1000 lumens, then the Piko would appeal to me much more. I do love my upgraded Wilma beam and I feel the beam is perfect for use on my helmet, but I do notice the weight on my helmet and that is the only downside. For info my Wilma light head is 125g compared to the 55g Piko light head. I do give Lupine props for offering such a light weight light and it should be a good addition to their stable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MtbMacgyver
    They are just one of the few companies being honest in stating the real world lumen rating.
    (...)
    I didn't really expect to get their exact number when I started this post, but there you go....I'd say their spec is pretty much right on.
    Well done

    BUT I believe Lupine should state this more clearly (if it is indeed the case), so that people don't think that the Piko is inferior to other 2 x XP-G @*1A lights...
    I, at least, started wondering what Lupine had done to come up with a brand new light with such a low light ouput (apparently).

  15. #15
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    Just received my Piko light. Looking good!! Weight is good too.
    I am using it with my Betty 7. I haven't try it out properly yet but the beam looks tight but wide. I will try to take some light photo's of it later on. Also pick up a 2.5Ah battery from Lupine to go with the Piko. Should give me 2 1/2 hours on full beam.
    Managed to fit the battery on the helmet which is handy if i choose not to carry my Camelbak



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  16. #16
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    Lucky you! Looks like a sweet little light.

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    Looks like Lupine has been borrowing our design ideas Scar.
    We just got magicshined


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    Quote Originally Posted by langen
    Well done

    BUT I believe Lupine should state this more clearly (if it is indeed the case), so that people don't think that the Piko is inferior to other 2 x XP-G @*1A lights...
    I, at least, started wondering what Lupine had done to come up with a brand new light with such a low light ouput (apparently).
    ...I agree with this thinking as well. I don't see anything on the Lupine web site stating that these are duel XP-G's ( or that they are driven @ 1000ma ). They may well be using XP-G's but if so why don't they say. Lupine has no problem touting the use of XP-G's on their other lights so why not this one? I agree totally with Langen, by stating that the output is only 550 lumens it gives one pause. I'd like to know more about this lamp. I hate assuming things and trying to guess. Lupine needs to provide a little more information. I want to know what emitters they are using and how hard they are driving them. Not to mention knowing a little more about the optics would be nice too.

    At first glance this looks like a nice offering from Lupine. I really like the size and the fact that the entire Sh'bang ( lamp/battery ) can be mounted on the helmet ( and yet still be very light-weight ). The one beam shot is impressive but it is one taken by "Their people" if you catch my drift. For the time being I'll not put too much stock in that one photo till I start seeing some "user" photos.

    Lastly, anyone know how much $ the Piko is going for? I didn't see a price listing on their website yet for the Piko.

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    Bill from Gretna believes Piko will be around $299. Not confirmed yet!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt
    Bill from Gretna believes Piko will be around $299. Not confirmed yet!!
    I bought mine directly from Lupine without tax at EUR 164 (Headlamp only) and the battery (2.5Ah) was EUR 56 so the total EUR 220

    Will try to take some beam shots in the next couple of days
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do
    The one beam shot is impressive but it is one taken by "Their people" if you catch my drift. For the time being I'll not put too much stock in that one photo till I start seeing some "user" photos.
    Taken from the Lupine website - Piko and Tesla on max. I think this looks very good:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lupine Piko-piko8.jpg  

    Lupine Piko-tesla12.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by langen
    Taken from the Lupine website - Piko and Tesla on max. I think this looks very good:
    Yes the photos on the Lupine website are impressive. However I would of liked to have known how they were done...specifically, were the lamps bar mounted for the photos AND what position does the camera have relative to the lamps?

    Anyway, I don't see why anyone would think the Piko beam pattern would be narrow. IMO, it looks a little too wide for a helmet lamp. I would of liked to have seen a little more light beyond those three trees to the left and a little less light in the foreground. Of course if these are bar mounted photos that could explain some things.

    One of the things I've noticed when using my single XP-G torch is that the output and throw look awesome *when no other lights are turned on*. As soon as I turn up my bar lamps over the 500 lumen range then the single XPG is not so impressive. The point I'm making is that helmet lamps that are not so powerful or focused aren't as much help once you start using brighter bar lamps in combo.

    I can't wait to see if MTBR does a review of the new Piko. An Amoeba review would be nice as well. Zen, anytime you want to put a couple XP-G's/ Regina's in your 500L model, go ahead and knock yourself out. The peanut gallery loves competition.

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    I have had XPG's in the 500l for about a year now, and the lenses I am using throw a very tight spot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by langen
    Taken from the Lupine website - Piko and Tesla on max. I think this looks very good:
    Great comparison!!! Looks to me like the path is a little high centred just past the second duck as in both photo's the ligh falls off quite a bit after that point on the ground of the path. For me, i think i like the beam of the Piko better. Has whiter light and i think may have a longer throw as it seams a fair bit brighter up to the high point. Is the Piko going to be replacing the Tesla as there is the MS and Baja Stryker which must have put a good dent in it's sales?

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    Are Lupines test images fake? + Lupine Piko X recommended?

    Quote Originally Posted by PUBCRAWL
    Piko's beam shot from Lupine's website.


    In regards to the light test on Lupine's web site
    http://www.lupine.de/web/en/products/lighttest/z
    are the ducks in the photo actually fake, e.g. made of plastic??
    Is it a standard type of thing placing objects in the image to give you a better picture of the size of the area being lit up. (Looks like there's a deer in the back? I can't quite make it out)

    IF NOT, my direct conlusion is that one single photo was taken and Photoshop was used to create fake the beams for each respecitve lamp since the ducks haven't moved a bit.

    Anyone know?

    I've been quite keen on the Lupine Piko X: trail running in the forest in complete darkness. But does anyone have any feedback on how good it is for biking in darkness, which'd require more from a lamp than when running. Is the beam perhaps to narrow for biking?

    Tks!

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    I did some research about this fake duck ting and found out, that there is a special company that rents animals which are speciffically trained not to move. It's amazing !

    I also found a rare snapshot of the Lupine team and their "co-workers"...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lupine Piko-team.jpg  


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    Plastic fantastic

    Well what do you know. Thanks for finding the info. I really appreciate it!
    I had such a laugh seeing the pic along with you comment though as i'm not quite certain that the the animals in the pic would require all that much training to stay absolutely still Haha!

    Thanks again!

    In regards to my question about the Lupine Piko X on a bike: I'd still be interested in an answer if anyone out there would happen to know? Thanks.

    Cheerio

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    Quote Originally Posted by niklasbike
    I've been quite keen on the Lupine Piko X: trail running in the forest in complete darkness. But does anyone have any feedback on how good it is for biking in darkness, which'd require more from a lamp than when running. Is the beam perhaps to narrow for biking?
    I don't know about the Piko beam, but can you better describe the suitability of the Piko X for running? I use a Magicshine for running, skiing, and biking and like the width and reach of the beam (though not the dark donut) for running in the woods. I won a night orienteering race using the Magicshine a few weeks ago.

    I'm very tempted by the Piko X because it would be about half the weight on my head, and the headlamp/headstrap function looks much better than an adapted handlebar mount. I don't use a helmet for running and skiing, and almost never when biking either. The cables would probably not have to be replaced every few weeks from connectors falling off due to poor cable sheath material/bad strain relief (especially in the cold), perhaps accelerated because of the bouncing of the battery in my pocket when running. I hesistate on the Piko X because the beam looks like it's on the narrow side. Do you really find it adequate for running in the woods? Do you get tunnel vision because of the narrowness of the beam, or do you still have a good sense of what is in your peripheral vision? If you have a Magicshine, how much narrower is the beam on the Piko X?

    I guess I really like the beamshot of scar's Amoeba, posted above, but it doesn't have a good headstrap mount, and the cable come out the wrong side.
    Last edited by xcandrew; 10-31-2010 at 10:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xcandrew
    I don't know about the Piko beam, but can you better describe the suitability of the Piko X for running? I use a Magicshine for running, skiing, and biking and like the width and reach of the beam (though not the dark donut) for running in the woods. I won a night orienteering race using the Magicshine a few weeks ago.

    I'm very tempted by the Piko X because it would be about half the weight on my head, and the headlamp/headstrap function looks much better than an adapted handlebar mount. I don't use a helmet for running and skiing, and almost never when biking either. The cables would probably not have to be replaced every few weeks from connectors falling off due to poor cable sheath material/bad strain relief (especially in the cold), perhaps accelerated because of the bouncing of the battery in my pocket when running. I hesistate on the Piko X because the beam looks like it's on the narrow side. Do you really find it adequate for running in the woods? Do you get tunnel vision because of the narrowness of the beam, or do you still have a good sense of what is in your peripheral vision? If you have a Magicshine, how much narrower is the beam on the Piko X?

    I guess I really like the beamshot of scar's Amoeba, posted above, but it doesn't have a good headstrap mount, and the cable come out the wrong side.
    I use the same Regina optics that Scar uses in the Amoeba and have found the beam very nice with good centre punch and some flood to the sides a bit like the Magicshine and I often use it for walking and orienttering. If you can find a light that you like that uses Regina reflectors with the XPG LEDs then IMO it makes a great *adventure* light.


    I'm not selling mine or anything but have posted a pic of it just for the sake of it




    Going by Lupines pictures I wouldn't call the Pikos beam narrow. I must say that I do like the look of that Piko.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lupine Piko-little%2520pic%2520of%2520light.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by yetibetty
    I use the same Regina optics that Scar uses in the Amoeba and have found the beam very nice with good centre punch and some flood to the sides a bit like the Magicshine and I often use it for walking and orienttering. If you can find a light that you like that uses Regina reflectors with the XPG LEDs then IMO it makes a great *adventure* light.
    Francois says the Piko uses XPGs. I wonder if anyone wants to see if they can fit the Regina reflectors into the Piko. It would probably not be a drop in, but it looks like they could probably be modified to fit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xcandrew
    Francois says the Piko uses XPGs. I wonder if anyone wants to see if they can fit the Regina reflectors into the Piko. It would probably not be a drop in, but it looks like they could probably be modified to fit.
    I doubt it as the Regina relector is quite a bit deeper than most TIR optics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zen bicycle
    Looks like Lupine has been borrowing our design ideas Scar.
    We just got magicshined


    LOL!!! i'm sorry but that comment was just too funny about being magicshined that was a good one bro

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    looking for a new helmet light...i like this one's size, weight, price and that the battery mounts on the helmet too.

    pull the trigger or is something better coming out?

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    Great light!! Only other one that comes to mind that may be a step up would be the Exposure light. It's a 3-up XPG putting out a measured 66lux,and is self contained.Only drawback is the one hour run time.Good news is you can get the optional piggyback battery which is a single cell i think,and will double that run time.

    Both the Piko and Exposure are the two brightest complete helmet light sets under 190 grams.The Piko not as bright but 2 1/2+ hour runtimes.

    Two others ,(very good) and close in performance and very light weight, are the Trailled 500L, and the Amoeba.

    Any one of these four would be a good choice.Cheers!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Great light!! Only other one that comes to mind that may be a step up would be the Exposure light. It's a 3-up XPG putting out a measured 66lux,and is self contained.Only drawback is the one hour run time.Good news is you can get the optional piggyback battery which is a single cell i think,and will double that run time.

    Both the Piko and Exposure are the two brightest complete helmet light sets under 190 grams.The Piko not as bright but 2 1/2+ hour runtimes.

    Two others ,(very good) and close in performance and very light weight, are the Trailled 500L, and the Amoeba.

    Any one of these four would be a good choice.Cheers!!!
    thanks. right now i have an MS 900 that i will pass off to a friend once i get a new light. is the Piko output comparable to the 900 or is it a step down? it will be paired with a bar light too, so it doesn't need to have standalone power.

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    @donkeykong:

    well, I think you wouldn't be dissapointed getting any of these lights right now. But rumors on the Lupine forums tell us that there is going to be two entirely new Lupine lights this summer (one around the piko price category) as well as brightness upgrades for the entire lupine series. So it might be worth waiting till fall (guess in 4 to 8 weeks they are going to introduce to new stuff and as usual take another month or so till it gets available in the US).

    Joe Bob

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    The Piko is a definate step up from the MS in brightness and in every other way.In keeping what you are looking for (the lamp head and battery on your helmet)I'm not so sure that what Lupine has coming would be worth the wait, as anything with much more output would require more battery capasity.Not sure what the run times a single XM-Lamp drawing close to it's max would be with the Piko 2.5Ah battery.But if it were over two hours on high setting,that would be worth the wait, if that was something Lupine was considering.It would bump up output close to 800OTF lumens.Anything brighter would require a larger battery best suited in your camelpack.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    The Piko is a definate step up from the MS in brightness and in every other way.In keeping what you are looking for (the lamp head and battery on your helmet)I'm not so sure that what Lupine has coming would be worth the wait, as anything with much more output would require more battery capasity.Not sure what the run times a single XM-Lamp drawing close to it's max would be with the Piko 2.5Ah battery.But if it were over two hours on high setting,that would be worth the wait, if that was something Lupine was considering.It would bump up output close to 800OTF lumens.Anything brighter would require a larger battery best suited in your camelpack.
    Remember that you can always wait
    If you need it buy it and upgrade as they improve; at least with Lupine you know that you will be able to upgrade LED (even when its not DIY in the Piko ASAIK)
    Also remember that you don't HAVE to go with the 2.5Ah battery; customize and upgrade to the 5Ah which is very light anyways.
    Lupine has so far kept their running times the same with an increase in output on the other hand.
    I just got the Piko myself and the backyard test looks very sweet pattern!! I'll post a little review with pics comparing it to the betty and wilma
    BBW. MS, RD

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