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  1. #1
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    Lupine - How Sturdy is the Bar-mount set for Betty R?

    Hey Betty Owners,
    I'm thinking of getting the new Betty R14 and I was wondering how sturdy that bar-mount is? It is only on one side and does anybody add one to the other side?
    I currently have the older mounting that connects with the "O" ring.
    Thanks a bunch,
    Woody

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by woody.1 View Post
    Hey Betty Owners,
    I'm thinking of getting the new Betty R14 and I was wondering how sturdy that bar-mount is? It is only on one side and does anybody add one to the other side?
    I currently have the older mounting that connects with the "O" ring.
    Thanks a bunch,
    Woody

    I was blown away how good and sturdy the Betty-R mount is,, I have the Betty-R,12. I too was concerned as the old mount for my 2010 betty(not the rubber band type) which mounted on both sides of the stem had quite a bit of chatter over rough terrain. The Betty-R mount however is very sturdy and I have no light chatter what so ever,,, the lamp head does not move at all.

  3. #3
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    Basically, Lupine stuff is built like the proverbial brick you-know-what house.

    J.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Basically, Lupine stuff is built like the proverbial brick you-know-what house.

    J.
    Lupine stuff is pretty good, but IMO it is not the holy grail that is made out to be. There are many areas in which competitors are doing better than Lupine does.

    the beam pattern is obviously one such area, but it is not the only one.

    another thing i don't like about lupine is that the housing gets hot and the button is pretty stiff so you're holding a hot housing while trying to press the button and simply end up changing the angle of the light - bad design. neither NiteRider Pro nor L&M Seca suffer form these problems - but they get no credit for their superior design becaues they aren't as expensive as Lupine.

    and finally the cable plug - it sucks - virtually all other light makers have better plugs than Lupine. everybody else uses round plugs, and only Lupine uses that weird rectangular one. there is a reason why bottles, cans and hoses are round - because round seals work better by distributing pressure more evenly. to compensate for uneven pressure created by rectangular seal Lupine increases that pressure making the plug more difficult to use than any other brand of light.

    to me Lupine design and engineering just doesn't live up to the hype.

    to me Light & Motion is the company that makes well designed products, which aren't necessarily high-end, and Lupine is a company that makes High-End products, which aren't necessarily well designed.

    it is unfortunate that Light & Motion doesn't have anything to offer that could match the output of Betty, or even Wilma for that matter. but this is often the case - companies with superior design and engineering ( like Porsche ) will often focus on the mainstream market ( Boxster ) while companies who aren't as good at design / engineering ( Hennessey ) go for the ultra-high-end ( Venom GT ).

    is Venom GT faster than a Boxster ? with 1200 hp versus 300 hp it certainly is, but that doesn't mean Hennessey is a better car maker than Porsche.

    there is no doubt that Venom GT is an awesome car and Betty is an awesome light - but i disagree with the unqualified " Lupine is the Best ! " attitude that many people have.

    Lupine is also one of the LEAST innovative companies in my opinion - not only all of their lights essentially the same, but they are also the same as last year and the year before that. The only thing that changes is newer LEDs pump out more lumens.

    Wireless remote control to me is not innovation - it's a feature - a nice feature, but then for $1000+ they better have features that separate their product from products that cost 1/3 as much. Wireless remote to me is evidence that Betty is a more high-end product than other lights, not evidence of it being better designed.

    if you think about it Lupine basically sells you Lumens ( 4500 Lumens WOOOOOW ! ! ! ) but competing based on Lumens is what the cheapest of Chinese clone lights do, the ones that sell for 30 bucks, not 1000 bucks. Light & Motion doesn't compete on Lumens - it competes on design - which by definition makes it a better company than Lupine in my opinion. The best companies compete on design, second tier companies compete on specs - this is true in Computer business, Smartphone Business, Car Business - why wouldn't it be true in bike light business.

  5. #5
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    Well. Seems to me you're dismissing Lupine as whole, I think? I admit I've never held a L&M or other "US" lamps in my hands. But ...

    The plug. It's true even some Lupine gear owners think Lupine could do better here. Nevertheless there are no major problems with the plug, I would say it's just a minor matter. As for the hot housing, OK it gets hot, but in general not so hot you could not touch it anymore.

    I also highly doubt Lupine being the least innovative company. The company produces since over 20 years, the remote (cable) switch was integrated quite early and was a unique feature for bike lights for a while. The Lupine Tesla release marked somewhat the beginning of the "chinese offensive" of cheap bike lights, the first dealxtreme lamp with considerable success followed shortly after the release of the Tesla and looked very similar. And the piko was indeed the smallest light (of "serial" production) in its "output class" when it appeared. It was a great success and probably still is, and I doubt this being just due to a "hype". A lot of similar lamps to the piko followed from other companies after its appearance.

    In another posting you write how much better your Seca 1700 (lumen) is (was) compared to the Piko, which then had 900 or even only 750 lumens. It seems the Seca 1700 indeed has an excellent beam pattern. But it doesn't look like a kind of comparison on even level to me, I surely also like my old Betty with 1900 upgraded lumens better than my previous Tesla with 500 lumens, not much of a suprise I guess ... Calling the sole bike light you own the "best" looks a bit simplistic to me.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHnuschti View Post
    In another posting you write how much better your Seca 1700 (lumen) is (was) compared to the Piko, which then had 900 or even only 750 lumens. It seems the Seca 1700 indeed has an excellent beam pattern. But it doesn't look like a kind of comparison on even level to me, I surely also like my old Betty with 1900 upgraded lumens better than my previous Tesla with 500 lumens, not much of a suprise I guess ... Calling the sole bike light you own the "best" looks a bit simplistic to me.
    i don't call "the sole light i own" best. first of all i have 10 rechargeable lights on my bike right now at the same time, secondly i have had a 3600 lumen headlight last year ( NiteRider Pro 3600 ).

    if you're German and only buy German lights well that's very patriotic of you. being an American i have American, German and Australian lights. most of my lights are American, but for example my Philips Saferide says "designed in Germany" on it, and it is an awesome light for multi-use-pathways. there is no American equivalent of the Philips Saferide because in America we don't have laws / regulations against bike lights blinding people ( as you have in Germany ) but i wanted a polite light, so i got one designed in Germany. i also drive a German car, although it is made in US.

    i think Germans make better Cars, Tanks and Submarines than Americans, but Americans make better Computers, SmartPhones, Fighter Jets, Aircraft Carriers and Space Ships.

    i will also say that "America" is big. California is a more fair comparison to Germany. when it comes to design and technology California beats Germany in my opinion, but Germany wins when it comes to things made out of steel, like Cars. on the other hand there are a lot of German and Japanese engineers in California.

    my Light & Motion Seca and my MonkeyLectric M232 are designed and built in California, and to me they are more interesting products than Lupine, although Lupine is certainly very "elite" and "high-end"

    i never had any Chinese or British lights though. some of the British lights looked interesting but there was always some better or cheaper light from elsewhere. as for Chinese lights - i don't see the point in buying lights DESIGNED in China. made in China is a good way to save ( if they can make the iPhone i'm sure they can make a light ) but designed in China is not ( In My Opinion ).

    From having owned the Piko ( 900 ) i can get a pretty good idea of what Wilma and Betty would have been like. for example the 3600 Lumen Betty would have the output of the 3600 Lumen Niterider throught the beam pattern of the Piko ( plus or minus ). i could use my imagination on this, or i could simply look a the beam shots of:

    3600 Lumen betty ( $1,100 )

    http://reviews.mtbr.com/wp-content/u...Betty-R-91.jpg

    vs 1700 Lumen Seca: ( $320 )

    http://reviews.mtbr.com/wp-content/u...Seca-17001.jpg

    i think if you asked somebody to determine which is the more expensive light based on these beam shots alone they wouldn't be able to answer. it is very hard to guess from that beam shot that one of the lights is actually putting out double the Lumens of the other. of course i have figured out why it looks that way, and i don't doubt that Betty is actually putting out double the Lumens but at the end of the day it's what the light looks like that matters, not how many Lumens it is.

    and i didn't say the Seca is the "best" light - it isn't the brightest, isn't the best built ( plastic squeaks when you handle it ), i don't like the cable on it either because it is fixed length - but it has more thought put into it than Lupine lights ( in my opinion )
    Last edited by androgen; 08-17-2013 at 12:18 PM.

  7. #7
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    I do agree that reflectors can do a better job than "lenses", as the beamshot of the seca 1700 shows.

    In fact I also think that the the uniform, circle beam pattern of the Lupine Wilma/Betty somewhat has quite a "wasted" output where you do not "need" it, that is, on a road bike, and to the lesser, on the mountainbike.

    However, you look at this from the viewpoint of a cyclist. Lupine has quite a lot of followers outside this field, runners, hikers, alpinists, "naturalists", even rescue personnel, where there may be more need of a homogenous pattern in all directions. And even on the bike you may enjoy to see the whole "atmosphere" where you ride rather than just looking at the road where you're riding.

    I also own the mentioned Philips light, and indeed it is an excellent example on how to reduce all "waste" with reflectors and limit/put the spill just on the road where you need it, bringing a (limited) pattern equal to "Betty-like" homogenous patterns, but at a quarter or so of wattage/drain, something that applies also to the "new" Fenix BT20, I think.

    Frankly it also has come to my mind why Lupine has no reflectors in its repertoire, maybe they've tested it concluding its not worth to "specialize" in one distinct use. But they may just have overslept this trend which you can see in some companies ...

    And no, I'm not German ...

  8. #8
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    I think this thread has gotten a little off topic don't you think. Woody1 was wanting feedback on Betty-R mounts not a debate on which light is better than the other. Just my 2cents.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    I think this thread has gotten a little off topic don't you think. Woody1 was wanting feedback on Betty-R mounts not a debate on which light is better than the other. Just my 2cents.

    Yeah I was going to mention that as well. Seems we are all passionate about lights.
    Thanks for your feedback too.
    FYI - Gretna emailed me and said the new line should start shipping from Germany in 3 or 4 weeks.
    Woody

  10. #10
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    It always worries me when Gretna gets the new line up in. I keep saying I don't need to upgrade and sometimes i'm successful. But after not upgrading to the 2600 lumen Betty a couple of years ago from my 2010 model, I took the plunge last year with a pair of Betty-R,12's. Unbelievable!! and love the remote as I run both lamp heads off just one remote. So don't need to upgrade this year even though the new 13.2 mAh battery's would be welcome for more run time. Just for more reassurance,you would have no worries on that one sided mount, that been said not sure how it would be on a carbon bar as i'm not using one.

  11. #11
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    Hey indebt,
    Remember this from a few years back?
    "QUOTE=indebt;8495057] even me (the lumen junky) think i have reached as much output as i'll ever need.[/QUOTE]

    Hey Indebt,
    Come on who is kidding who.

    Woody"

    Sounds like you need to place an order

  12. #12
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    LOL!!! Good find Woody.1,,,,,, I know, what a hypocrite,,, guess i'll place my order asap!!! Cheers!!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    It always worries me when Gretna gets the new line up in. I keep saying I don't need to upgrade and sometimes i'm successful. But after not upgrading to the 2600 lumen Betty a couple of years ago from my 2010 model, I took the plunge last year with a pair of Betty-R,12's. Unbelievable!! and love the remote as I run both lamp heads off just one remote. So don't need to upgrade this year even though the new 13.2 mAh battery's would be welcome for more run time. Just for more reassurance,you would have no worries on that one sided mount, that been said not sure how it would be on a carbon bar as i'm not using one.
    yes. sometimes i miss living in a communist country where you never needed to worry about upgrading anything because nothing ever got updated.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    It always worries me when Gretna gets the new line up in. I keep saying I don't need to upgrade and sometimes i'm successful. But after not upgrading to the 2600 lumen Betty a couple of years ago from my 2010 model, I took the plunge last year with a pair of Betty-R,12's. Unbelievable!! and love the remote as I run both lamp heads off just one remote. So don't need to upgrade this year even though the new 13.2 mAh battery's would be welcome for more run time. Just for more reassurance,you would have no worries on that one sided mount, that been said not sure how it would be on a carbon bar as i'm not using one.
    indebt can you answer a quick question ?

    1 - if you have ( according to my math ) 7,000+ lumens on your off-road setup, assuming you sometimes ride on the road, how much of that do you use on the road ?

    2 - do you have both Bettys on the Bar or Helmet or one one the Bar and one on the Helmet ? or something else altogether ?

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