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  1. #1
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
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    LIKE don't trust ebay/teh internetz. How to tell genuine batteries from fakes?

    So, I am looking for authentic Panasonic 18650 (or better, suggestions?) batteries to do a pack rebuild. I don't know what site to trust.
    Who do you use?
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

  2. #2
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    fasttech seems to have the best prices on Pana's 18650's. You can also try Wallbuys or DX.
    "By Your Command"

  3. #3
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    Callies Kustoms 3400mAh 18650 Panasonic Batteries

    These are good. Expensive though. Also their protected versions are closer to 70mm long so may not fit some holders.

  4. #4
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
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    Curious about those pre built 4 18650 packs on DX, seem too cheap to be good batteries. I couldn't find a pre-built 4 pack with Panasonics, I would just buy it for $40 and be done with it. Cheapest I have seen the Panasonics is $34 or so for 4 on ebay.
    Anyone know of a GOOD prebuilt (preferably with Magicshine connectors)?
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

  5. #5
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    If you want quality pre built packs go to action led site and see any of their gloworm or gemini packs. It'll cost more but I believe they're built with pana's.

    Action Led here

    fasttech here
    "By Your Command"

  6. #6
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
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    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

  7. #7
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    I don't see anything mentioning a protection PCB in the spec. Does it have one?

  8. #8
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    Brightstone sports have some magicshine packs with panasonic and samsung cells.
    MagicShine Li-ion Battery Packs

    Very expensive. I've been using a xeccon 6 cell hard-shell battery that only cost $50 for 4 or 5 months. I'm real happy with it.

  9. #9
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
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    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    I've been using a xeccon 6 cell hard-shell battery that only cost $50 for 4 or 5 months. I'm real happy with it.
    Where did you find it?
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Where did you find it?

    Category not found!

    It's $45 now ( plus shipping?)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by pucked up View Post
    If you want quality pre built packs go to action led site and see any of their gloworm or gemini packs. It'll cost more but I believe they're built with pana's.

    Action Led here

    fasttech here

    I second Action LED. I needed a better battery to go with my triple XML, and I went with MJ-6030 5600mAh an got much better run times then the cheap stock battery.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    Category not found!

    It's $45 now ( plus shipping?)
    Thanks varider. Shipping is included in the price if it's a mtbr special. If we have to send it from our office in China, free shipping if going via Singapore Post (which Fasttech uses but we seem to be at least 5 times slower) or expedited shipping via DHL etc for $15 but still presents problems when shipping Lithium batteries only.

    Battery stock is limited to soft shell 6600mAh and 2200mAh at Bloomington IN. These batteries are fitted with BAK cells. New ones on the way are fitted with six Samsung cells totaling 7800mAh. We are endeavoring to get these hard shell and soft shell in neoprene versions there by the end of the month. Last shipment was returned hence the delay. We are going to adjust the price down to about USD 53 or AUD 60. Will refund the difference to those who bought at AUD 65.

    rideit, please let us know if you have more questions.
    Leonard - All things Xeccon + Beyond
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  13. #13
    Cleavage Of The Tetons
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    Thanks a ton. Looks good, interested in the Hardshell (that has a PCB board built in, ready to go, right?)What is your warranty on draw over time with the 7800 version?
    "We LOVE cows! They make trails for us.....

    And then we eat them."

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    Thanks a ton. Looks good, interested in the Hardshell (that has a PCB board built in, ready to go, right?)What is your warranty on draw over time with the 7800 version?
    Yes, they have PCBs built in. Just plug 'n play. The round connectors and pins are "ms compatible". There may be a short adaptor lead from Xeccon's square to MS' round conversion with these batteries. There will be slight variations in capacity since it's a mass manufactured product, Samsung or not. It will not be more than 5%. Our light set listings have runtimes listed in the mtbRevolution website. They won't be far from the published numbers. We don't know how people are going to treat the batteries once they are in private homes or out there on the trails but we guarantee capacity for a minimum of 3 months no matter what is done, or not done. Battery or PCB failure warranty is 6 months. This applies to any manufacturing fault, not from misuse or mistreatment. We have no claims from last years mtbr specials on the 6600s to date.

    To answer your question on how to tell the genuine from the fakes, read this thread at CPF. The only way to ensure you are getting genuine products is from buying from reputable sellers and organizations. They have most to lose from bad or negative mentions in forums. To put it bluntly, it stays there like a haemorrhoid. We can't afford that and neither can reputable companies sellers like Action LED, Gretna, etc. As sellers, we do not know what is inside some products. We trust the manufacturer who in turn trust their suppliers. A weakness any link will break the chain. The sellers choice and faith in the manufacturer is important. We choose, and choose wisely. If there's a "seller benchmark" to aim for, Gretna has the best service and they can do that because they deal with good quality products like Lupine. If they deal with cheap shoddy products, can we expect them to keep their good reputation?
    Leonard - All things Xeccon + Beyond
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  15. #15
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    Leonard, are the batteries in your neoprene shells waterproof, or do they need to be kept out of the rain or covered in a plastic bag when it's raining?

    Thanks

    Tim

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wombat View Post
    Leonard, are the batteries in your neoprene shells waterproof, or do they need to be kept out of the rain or covered in a plastic bag when it's raining?
    Tim
    Hi Tim, I would not call it waterproof. Can confidently declare they are water-resistant in heavy rain, but not waterproof like the hard shell version. We expected the last lot of 7800s to come in a silicone boot which will increase water resistance but that's been delayed. Even silicone boots aren't immersion waterproof. You will need to lay a bead of silicone at the cap at the opposite end of where the cable comes out and a little bit where the cable exits the boot

    This is very Tim Taylor, but giving it a few rounds over with duct tape will actually waterproof any battery. If done properly (especially where the cable exits from the pack), there's little doubt it can handle 1 meter immersion.
    Leonard - All things Xeccon + Beyond
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  17. #17
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    When you see packs like this at first glance you think, "Wow! what a deal". Unfortunately the devil is in the details. The deal breaker is that the cells are going to be cheap low capacity cells. My gut tells me if you get an actual 4800 to 5200mAh capacity from one of these it would be a stroke of luck. If you actually got a battery with actual capacity over 6000mah for that price it would be like winning the lottery. Believe me, not gonna happen.

    I'll second the recommendation for the Xeccon larger capacity battery packs. Currently the 7800mAh Samsung Li-ion 6-cell packs look like the best deal. Personally I prefer 4-cell packs but if you are going to go to a 6-cell it's best to get the most capacity you can get for the buck$. ( $55.50 USD is hard to beat ) Prices on the web site are in AUD.

  18. #18
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    Xeccon, what's going on with the new square connector? One of the things I liked about your batteries is that they used to use the standard round, i.e. Magicshine connector. I want to keep all the lights and batteries that I own compatible with each other. Can you take some detailed pictures of the connectors?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    Xeccon, what's going on with the new square connector? One of the things I liked about your batteries is that they used to use the standard round, i.e. Magicshine connector. I want to keep all the lights and batteries that I own compatible with each other. Can you take some detailed pictures of the connectors?
    The square connectors have better waterproofing qualities through Xeccon's R&D. These girls and guys know what they are doing. Two differences. It has less flex and the square lip on the male side has better sealing. Cat did a shower test with the S12 U2 last year and there was some water inside the round MS-type connector. From memory he commented he wasn't sure if that 1/2 drop of water got in during the shower test, or when he disconnected the light from the battery. Comments please Mr.Cat. Personally, I'd like it standard round for all-round compatibility but Xeccon will not compromise good design for compatibility with doubtful waterproofing integrity.

    If this was going to be standard Xeccon, then I told them they must come out with an adaptor, because people hate it when standards change. So, a Xeccon square male connector to MS-type female connector adaptor cable will come FREE with all batteries supplied, unless the batteries already have a round female connector. These adaptor cables are 30cm long. Please refer to pics. Also including some pics already posted on the underwater runtime test. Second last pic shows the square connectors on the top left.

    We can guarantee the square connectors are waterproof. The MS side, not so much but will still handle heavy deluge but not submergence or immersion like we did with the square connectors here

    BTW. Been waiting for the Mods to change our name from Xeccon to mtbRevolution for 3 weeks now at the name change request thread. It's time for us to be better defined a year on.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails LIKE don't trust ebay/teh internetz. How to tell genuine batteries from fakes?-xeccon-square-ms-connector.jpg  

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  20. #20
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    Hi Leonard, just a suggestion, but I'd find another 30cm of cable in many circumstances a pain in the arse (but it would be OK if it replaced an extension cable).

    I'd prefer a double ended adapter without any cable. It might be cheaper too.

    Tim

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wombat View Post
    Hi Leonard, just a suggestion, but I'd find another 30cm of cable in many circumstances a pain in the arse (but it would be OK if it replaced an extension cable).
    I'd prefer a double ended adapter without any cable. It might be cheaper too.
    Tim
    Hi Tim, fully agree and prefer a double ended adaptor like you. Next alternative, if the design required connector to connector then 10cm may be ideal. Like you see in the pics, connection works fine without the adaptor - just not waterproof but we can be confident it will survive a rain event. The last time I got caught in heavy rain while night riding was over 3 years ago along the Maribyrnong River. My wife and I made it a point to night ride four nights a week back then. It's fair to say unless we purposely go out in the rain, the chances of riding in heavy rain is quite slim - although higher if you're competing in a 12/24hr event.

    I do use this 30cm cable as an extension cable between the LiPo in my Camelbak and the helmet. 30cm from Battery to connector > 30cm from connector to Adaptor Cable > 20cm (standard length for other lights would be around 30cm too) from Adaptor Cable to S12 Two light head. 80cm is perfect for me. On a personal note I don't really care which adaptor I am using - square to round or round to square.
    Leonard - All things Xeccon + Beyond
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    What is your warranty on draw over time with the 7800 version?
    Would be great to get some longer term feedback with the Xeccon BAK 6600s, 4400s and 2200s. Calling all customers and reviewers like ironbrewer, Cat and mayor. Can we get a short report on how your Xeccon batteries are holding up? Please mention when you first got it and the rate it's holding charge now. Thanks in advance.
    Leonard - All things Xeccon + Beyond
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  23. #23
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    Thanks for the extensive info on the new connector. I still prefer the the round connector, but I respect innovations that lead to better products. Including a free adapter is very nice, but then again I may not even buy a battery that didn't come with it. I would prefer a very short adapter, perhaps even one that is completely rigid (no cable)

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    Thanks for the extensive info on the new connector. I still prefer the the round connector, but I respect innovations that lead to better products. Including a free adapter is very nice, but then again I may not even buy a battery that didn't come with it. I would prefer a very short adapter, perhaps even one that is completely rigid (no cable)
    Thanks for your input varider. Will see what we can do. If there's batteries with round connectors available, I will get them sent to Bloomington. Will bring up the rigid adaptor idea but like I said, connector to connector may be the best way forward in terms of waterproofing. How is your hard shell 6600mAh going anyway?

    Here's some additional info on the Samsung cells inside the Xeccon 7800mAh. Two pics of the battery pack and a link to Samsung's website here. I think the colorful AA-type-wrapper in the site and plain wrapper differentiates retail and manufacturer supplied cells. The other thing missing is the M in 26-FM. Please correct me if I am wrong. *looking towards Kir or Archie*.

    BTW. For those wondering why there is a zip-tie at the connector. Well, I have heaps of personal and demo batteries. Need to know which ones are mine and what is new stock at the charging board hence the zip-tie. If you want to differentiate capacity, you can also put in a different colored zip tie or multiple ties to distinguish them.

    [edit] Adding Product specification and test results of Samsung ICR 18650 26F. 7.4 Temperature Dependence of Discharge Capacity is interesting when considering runtimes. Results from 9.1 to 9.4 is what we want to read. Would be nice if Panasonic 3100 test results had similar layout instead of graphs.
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    Last edited by mtbRevolution; 09-15-2013 at 12:37 AM. Reason: Adding Samsung ICR18650-26F Specification & Test Results
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeccon View Post
    . How is your hard shell 6600mAh going anyway?
    It seems to be holding up very well after four or five months of use. I don't dig really deep into the capacity of it, but it's there if I need it.

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