K/D 2 x XML, MJ880 Clone

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  • 09-01-2013
    Cat-man-do
    D/X Versions Of the 880 clone; More than one type
    Tonight while looking over the D/X stuff I noticed that D/X has a couple versions of the 880 clone. If you want the one with the best features ( U2 emitters, high output, 4-modes ( including press to hold strobe ),..) This "Nitefire" version is the one you want if you are buying from D/X. D/X has at least three other versions with different brand names. While less expensive most of those are only listing 580 lumen. I don't think you want one of those.

    I also noticed that D/X is trying to be a little more honest about the output and battery listing...( sometimes ). The Nitefire version is listing the output around 1200 Lumen which is probably accurate. They also list the battery at 3000mAh, also probably accurate. This is a nice trend.
  • 09-01-2013
    Vancbiker
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    looking at fins on Chinese lights makes you wonder if Chinese people understand what fins are for ?

    i wonder if Chinese have ever seen an air conditioner or a car radiator and asked themselves why the fins are a fraction of a millimeter on them but are maybe 1/4 inch on the lights they're making ?

    the objective of fins is to add surface area, unless you're a Chinese light maker then apparently the objective is to add dead weight.

    if these guys built an air conditioner with fins like that it would take up the whole room and weigh 10,000 pounds.

    sorry, lol, but i just find it funny.

    I am sure that the Chinese understand heat transfer and the need for it on a light. They also understand the economics of making a lamp housing for really low cost. That low cost requirement is what drives the profile of the lamp. Fewer, thicker fins are far easier/cheaper to produce whether by extrusion or machining.

    A side effect of the thicker fin design that likely did not occur to the designer is that a thicker fin is less likely to cut a user in the event of contact in a crash.
  • 09-01-2013
    androgen
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    I am sure that the Chinese understand heat transfer and the need for it on a light. They also understand the economics of making a lamp housing for really low cost. That low cost requirement is what drives the profile of the lamp. Fewer, thicker fins are far easier/cheaper to produce whether by extrusion or machining.

    A side effect of the thicker fin design that likely did not occur to the designer is that a thicker fin is less likely to cut a user in the event of contact in a crash.

    the thing is most lights on the market that have fins on them either have no real need for fins or don't derive any serious benefit from the ineffective fins that they do have. this is true for both chinese and "good" lights like lupine.

    for example i have had Lupine Piko - and i'm pretty sure if it didn't have fins there would be no difference in performance whatsoever.

    in other words, with the exception of very good, high-output lights, the fins on most lights are primarily for decoration. this is the same situation as spoilers on cars - they are for decoration on most cars, with the exception of cars capable of hitting 180 mph or so.

    now just because a spoiler isn't needed, doesn't mean you can't add one, as long as it is conservative and doesn't interfere with performance, like so:

    http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8123/8...3bf77a72_o.jpg

    same with fins:

    http://static.bike-components.de/cac...123d651df.jpeg

    and then you have trash like this:

    http://image.moparmusclemagazine.com...is-too-big.jpg

    which serves no useful purpose except adding weight, aerodynamic drag, raising your center of gravity and making it hard to open the trunk.

    and this is pretty much what fins look like on 3 out of 4 chinese lights, conservatively speaking.

    now of course you can still drive a car even with that *thing* plastered on top of it, and you can still use a light with those fins ...

    but i find it difficult to use the word "engineering" to describe this mess. the word that comes to mind is "ret4rdation" ...
  • 09-01-2013
    Vancbiker
    Fins add area for heat dissipation. Their location and dimensions do affect their efficiency, but in most all cases will improve heat management. Can fins improve aesthetics? Sure, but the side effect will also be to improve cooling.

    1 sq inch area per watt of LED will keep a light cool with moderate airflow (>6-7 mph) in 60 degree F temps. 2 sq inches per watt drops the airflow reqirement to a walking pace. My current helmet light is 18 watts on it's high setting with 14 sq inches area. It still works but only because on everything except fast trail sections I run on medium
  • 09-01-2013
    androgen
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Fins add area for heat dissipation. Their location and dimensions do affect their efficiency, but in most all cases will improve heat management. Can fins improve aesthetics? Sure, but the side effect will also be to improve cooling.

    1 sq inch area per watt of LED will keep a light cool with moderate airflow (>6-7 mph) in 60 degree F temps. 2 sq inches per watt drops the airflow reqirement to a walking pace. My current helmet light is 18 watts on it's high setting with 14 sq inches area. It still works but only because on everything except fast trail sections I run on medium

    chinese fins do not significantly increase area. most of the area on chinese lights comes from the enormous size of these lights compared to something like Lupine of same output.

    L&M Seca is the only light where fins are 100% functional. The fins are about 80% functional on NiteRider Pro 3600 / 1800. About 60 functional on Betty / Wilma and mostly for decoration on other lights including Piko where they are 100% for decoration.

    most metal-bodied lights do not need fins at all. it is only high-output plastic-bodied lights like Seca where the fins are 100% functional. a metal chinese light that is heavy as a tire iron and puts out 500 lumens doesn't need fins - they're just there because Chinese like to make products resemble the real thing - that's why they have "adidos" sneakers and "abble" iPhone chargers. they have been doing the same thing for decades.

    if you think those fins serve a function you might as well believe that "abble" and "adidos" are words in chinese.
  • 09-01-2013
    tigris99
    Re: K/D 2 x XML, MJ880 Clone
    Love ppl saying cause its made in China and such it can't work. Has nothing to do with where its made its how it made. So many of the lights I see out have Chinese copies, many of which are the exact same thing from the same factory but with crappy parts like chargers and batteries.

    Best to have knowledge of all this before trying to bash products. So much of anything is made in China just the cheaper stuff has no stickers where as the way overpriced stuff has a brand name sticker on it.

    Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2
  • 09-01-2013
    androgen
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Love ppl saying cause its made in China and such it can't work. Has nothing to do with where its made its how it made. So many of the lights I see out have Chinese copies, many of which are the exact same thing from the same factory but with crappy parts like chargers and batteries.

    Best to have knowledge of all this before trying to bash products. So much of anything is made in China just the cheaper stuff has no stickers where as the way overpriced stuff has a brand name sticker on it.

    Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2

    yes you figured it all out. everybody who buys brand name products is an id1ot and you are a genius and outsmarted us all. congratulations !
  • 09-01-2013
    Vancbiker
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    chinese fins do not significantly increase area. most of the area on chinese lights comes from the enormous size of these lights compared to something like Lupine.

    So the country of origin has some effect on how fins add area or not???? So just to make sure basic math has not been overlooked, let's look at the following example. A flat surface of a length and width of one inch is one square inch of area. Now put fins on that one by one surface that are an eighth inch tall and wide with a groove between fins also an eighth inch wide. That will give you four fins. The surface area is now two square inches. 100% more area is a substantial gain and in some instances important. Whether a light needs fins or not is merely a function of what it's power to heat dissipation area ratio is, not country of manufacture.
  • 09-01-2013
    androgen
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    So the country of origin has some effect on how fins add area or not???? So just to make sure basic math has not been overlooked, let's look at the following example. A flat surface of a length and width of one inch is one square inch of area. Now put fins on that one by one surface that are an eighth inch tall and wide with a groove between fins also an eighth inch wide. That will give you four fins. The surface area is now two square inches. 100% more area is a substantial gain and in some instances important. Whether a light needs fins or not is merely a function of what it's power to heat dissipation area ratio is, not country of manufacture.

    how hot does this light get anyway ? if it gets so hot you can barely touch it while riding at 10+ mph then it needs those fins. if not - it doesn't.

    i don't think i buy the idea that properly shaped fins would be that difficult to manufacture however. the more logical explanation is that the people who put the fins there simply didn't care about what they were doing, and frankly, if i was working for 10 cents an hour i wouldn't care either.

    my father once bought a chinese clamp in a 99 cents store that said 4" on it, but the actual size of the clamp was 3" ... i want to see what kind of formulas you can come up with to explain to me that 3 inches equals 4 inches. LOL.

    this is what chinese stuff is like. they have no incentive to make good honest products NONE because they don't have any brand name to protect. they don't care if the light works or not. tomorrow they will sell the same light under a different name and people will again buy it because it will be 10 times cheaper than a real light from a real company.

    i don't care if a company is chinese or german. i care about the brand name. DOES IT HAVE ONE ? Huawei is a chinese company that has a brand name. are their phones good ? no. but at least they TRY to make a good phone because they have a brand name that people recognize and they want to protect that brand name.
  • 09-01-2013
    steelhmr
    There is a new 2x XM-L2-U2 from Kaidomain. Light head only. Looks very nice: http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S022462
  • 09-01-2013
    Cat-man-do
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Love ppl saying cause its made in China and such it can't work. Has nothing to do with where its made its how it made. So many of the lights I see out have Chinese copies, many of which are the exact same thing from the same factory but with crappy parts like chargers and batteries.

    Best to have knowledge of all this before trying to bash products. So much of anything is made in China just the cheaper stuff has no stickers where as the way overpriced stuff has a brand name sticker on it.

    Yes, yes, when can talk till the cows come home about how cheap the Chinese products are. Just remember, just like anywhere else in the world the people who design the products are not the one's that make it. What makes a high quality product has to do with design, quality parts and skilled people to put all the stuff together and then very good quality control parameters to make sure every product makes the grade. ( *Truthfully, be glad the Chinese DON'T follow strict quality control because if they did the cost would be 3x as much )...:yesnod:

    Most of the Chinese lamps I see being sold look very simplistic. I don't doubt that many corners are cut putting these together but if you look back at where all this started with the release of the MagicShine lamps, design and function have changed in those few years since and improvements are seen in some of the stuff now being sold. ( That's why we talk about and review these things to find out which are crap and which are okay ) Quality control is likely still crap but if the product is designed better you will more likely get a better product ( most of the time ).

    Just keep in mind; these lamps are designed for quick inexpensive sale and are not designed to meet the standards used in a Space shuttle program. Some will be good and some will suck but few will be great. You're buying something that cost about what you would spend for a tank of gas. That tank of gas might last you a couple weeks if you're lucky. If your generic Chinese lamp last you a season you should consider this as getting your monies worth. The rule is; The more you invest in your purchase the more you can ( or should ) expect to get out of it.

    In the mean time, if the fins only partly function and the two emitters only put out 1000 lumen ( vs. the claimed 1800 lumen ) and the battery only last you a year....Smile, 1000 lumen is a hell of a good output to ride with. If it cost you $40 or less and still works after a year you made out like a bandit.

    Choosing the right Chinese lamp for bike use is like choosing the cheapest pi**-water beer to get a drunk on with. Some are a little better than others but all will get you drunk. As we all know, " Drinking something that taste better is always preferable. This equates to having a lamp that works better but is still inexpensive.
  • 09-02-2013
    whokilledJR
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    how hot does this light get anyway ? if it gets so hot you can barely touch it while riding at 10+ mph then it needs those fins. if not - it doesn't.

    i don't think i buy the idea that properly shaped fins would be that difficult to manufacture however. the more logical explanation is that the people who put the fins there simply didn't care about what they were doing, and frankly, if i was working for 10 cents an hour i wouldn't care either.

    my father once bought a chinese clamp in a 99 cents store that said 4" on it, but the actual size of the clamp was 3" ... i want to see what kind of formulas you can come up with to explain to me that 3 inches equals 4 inches. LOL.

    this is what chinese stuff is like. they have no incentive to make good honest products NONE because they don't have any brand name to protect. they don't care if the light works or not. tomorrow they will sell the same light under a different name and people will again buy it because it will be 10 times cheaper than a real light from a real company.

    i don't care if a company is chinese or german. i care about the brand name. DOES IT HAVE ONE ? Huawei is a chinese company that has a brand name. are their phones good ? no. but at least they TRY to make a good phone because they have a brand name that people recognize and they want to protect that brand name.

    XMLs produce a lot of heat and performance drops significantly without some form of cooling. How hot a bike light is to touch is irrelevant as it depends on the internal thermal pathway and how much aluminium mass the heat has to pass through.
    Considering bike lights are relatively small and are now coming with multi-emitters, any form of thermal cooling will have an impact on performance and heatfins make a difference, especially with air flow. For best effect they need to be placed as close to the emitter as possible with a good direct thermal pathway, providing the light has been well designed heatfins make a difference.

    If you haven't already you might want to read up on a forum such as budgetlightforum, plenty of testing done on that site.
  • 09-02-2013
    androgen
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by whokilledJR View Post
    XMLs produce a lot of heat and performance drops significantly without some form of cooling. How hot a bike light is to touch is irrelevant as it depends on the internal thermal pathway and how much aluminium mass the heat has to pass through.
    Considering bike lights are relatively small and are now coming with multi-emitters, any form of thermal cooling will have an impact on performance and heatfins make a difference, especially with air flow. For best effect they need to be placed as close to the emitter as possible with a good direct thermal pathway, providing the light has been well designed heatfins make a difference.

    If you haven't already you might want to read up on a forum such as budgetlightforum, plenty of testing done on that site.

    as i said heatsink fins are like spoilers on a car. sometimes they're functional:

    http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2009/04...4/Formula1.jpg

    sometimes they are aesthetic:

    http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8123/8...3bf77a72_o.jpg

    and sometimes they are pointless and ridiculous:

    http://cdn.speednik.com/files/2012/03/VetteTruck2.jpg

    you don't need to tell me what heatsink fins or spoilers are for. i have a degree in electrical engineering. i am telling you to know the difference between the 3 types. this way next time somebody tries to sell you a 20 year old rusty diesel pickup truck with five spoilers on the roof you won't think that it's a formula 1 ...
  • 09-02-2013
    Kir
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by steelhmr View Post
    There is a new 2x XM-L2-U2 from Kaidomain. Light head only. Looks very nice: http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S022462

    Thats a completely different light, don't mix it up with MJ880 clones.
    Original is called JEXREE Owl:
    HIGH POWER LED PORTABLE-LIGHT SERIES
    It has nice SMD-leds glowrings around the main led's reflectors which serve as parking/daytime lights and also look very cool :)
    It also uses XM-L2 leds, has very high brightness maximum mode and good thermal transfer to outer case.

    There is also a JEXREE Bat with 3 xml leds:
    10PCS/LOT JEXREE High Power CREE 3x L2 LED 4000Lumen High Power Headlight Bike Bicycle Light +battery and charger-in Headlamps from Lights & Lighting on Aliexpress.com
  • 09-02-2013
    androgen
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Kir View Post
    Thats a completely different light, don't mix it up with MJ880 clones.
    Original is called JEXREE Owl:
    HIGH POWER LED PORTABLE-LIGHT SERIES
    It has nice SMD-leds glowrings around the main led's reflectors which serve as parking/daytime lights and also look very cool :)
    It also uses XM-L2 leds, has very high brightness maximum mode and good thermal transfer to outer case.

    parking / daytime lights ? say what ?

    are they for real ?

    these people ...

    Light & Motion put side marker lights on some of their low-end headlights as well as on their tail lights, but what could possibly be the point of having a marker light facing FORWARD when there is already a light there ?

    these people ...

    i'm sure when they design their products they're sure rich Americans will buy them for their 6 year olds to play with. i don't think the Chinese have any idea that fully grown adults play with these toys themselves !

    ugh ... no words LOL
  • 09-02-2013
    Kir
    Because 1) they don't blind people in front of you 2) they can be seen from sides 3) they can be set up to blinking mode + main lights on low, that increases your visibility.
    Don't complain about these led rings, imo thats a great idea.
  • 09-02-2013
    MK96
    It is getting little out of topic, the topic was the MJ880 clone, not the other lights, heatsink fins and sportscars :-)
  • 09-02-2013
    androgen
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MK96 View Post
    It is getting little out of topic, the topic was the MJ880 clone, not the other lights, heatsink fins and sportscars :-)

    OK OK :)

    i'll try to stop :)
  • 09-03-2013
    whokilledJR
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by androgen View Post

    you don't need to tell me what heatsink fins or spoilers are for. i have a degree in electrical engineering. i am telling you to know the difference between the 3 types. this way next time somebody tries to sell you a 20 year old rusty diesel pickup truck with five spoilers on the roof you won't think that it's a formula 1 ...

    Fair enough, although the part of your text I was replying to left a different impression.
  • 09-03-2013
    znomit
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    So the country of origin has some effect on how fins add area or not????

    This has been established previous on MTBR.
    Thin Finnish fins win.
    http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/a...dphoto/fin.jpg
  • 09-16-2013
    tish!
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by scvkurt03 View Post
    Ordered a clone and the Action LED lens for the 880 with high hopes that it will fit and give me a bright flood for my bars. I don't suppose anyone's already attempted this combo?
    http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/31/ypynaqep.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/31/za7ygeqa.jpg

    Hi there! I bought the same lamp. Now I would like to know: Did it work with the reflector? If yes, what was the result?

    I really hope so very much!
  • 09-16-2013
    kragu
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tish! View Post
    Hi there! I bought the same lamp. Now I would like to know: Did it work with the reflector? If yes, what was the result?

    I really hope so very much!

    I've yet to receive the light. I'll post here when I get it...
  • 09-16-2013
    Cat-man-do
    These flood type lenses might work with other ( two reflector ) lamps as well. I think you'll like the output just as it is but if you feel you need more flood likely you will only need to replace one lens. If you use two it will likely kill the throw particularly when in the lower output levels.
  • 09-16-2013
    kragu
    1 Attachment(s)
    Good news, I got the light today! Bad news, the lenses look way too small. Worse news...well:Attachment 832681
  • 09-16-2013
    varider
    Is that the way it came, or did it just snap off? I thought this was a quality light.