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Thread: Ituo WIZ XP2

  1. #1
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    Ituo WIZ XP2 1500 Lumen Mountain Bike Light

    Yes guys, here it is, the Ituo WIZ XP2!!!

    We spoke, Ituo listened. Other lights have some catching up to do.

    https://www.ituolights.com/collectio...bike-light-kit



    Will be in stock (including US) mid-late June.

    Ok here's the details:

    It's really nice quality, very much in line with what we see from Ituo. But I think this one is a tad better. Very clean look.

    -Dual Cree XM-L2 U3 Neutral White emitters.
    - rated at 1500lumens, 1559 actual @ 30 seconds
    -removable wired remote
    -uses same optics as wiz20 so easily available and changeable to any pattern you want.
    - fins are cut to proper depth on the front half, back half of the sides is cut really deep to increase thermal behidn emitters and @ driver
    -gopro mount is STANDARD. Works like the WIZ1 and WIZ2 mount. QR slide lock gopro adapter then their QR style gopro handlebar mount.
    -top button with standard 2 color battery level indication (but not very bright which is good)
    -fully programmable driver. Hidden flash modes, press and hold for off, etc
    - 18awg battery cable (yes your reading that right!)
    -weight: 88g
    -includes a good gopro style helmet mount that uses Velcro straps (forgot a pic will do that tonight)
    -run time is 3hrs on Ituo battery pack. Pack is 8.4v 4 x NCR18650Bf 3350mah Panasonic cells. Total 6700mah capacity, full protection circuit, neoprene pouch.





    Now here's a wrench in the mix. They used the threaded style connectors. BUT DONT LOOSE FAITH JUST YET:

    I decided to test it with a normal MS connector. Ok it plugs in. Now the NUT is rather large. Largest I've ever seen in this application. So I decided to try and thread it onto a MS style female connector and...

    IT WORKS AND HOLDS NICELY. Plenty secure. SO YOU CAN USE YOUR OWN PACKS THAT USE MS STYLE CONNECTORS. Does take a bit of effort the first time threading the nut over a MS connector but it DOES NOT damage anything. And works perfectly. Also since there is an oring on the connector, it seals just fine into the MS style connector.

    Summary, the light head only is very much an option as long as you have ROUND MS style connectors on your existing battery pack.

    Picture of Ituo connector on ms style:


    Here is the last " first impression " thing I had to post:

    All lights we see producing anywhere close to these lumens (even X2 and Duo) have a current draw OVER 2A. The XP2....1.8-1.9A current draw on high (1559 lumens). Only drivers I know that can do that are my custom prototypes from Mtnelectronics and the taskled drivers. Ituo did a "one up" on the other brands, they increased driver efficiency by a substantial percentage!!! Didn't expect that.

    Only gripe I have is the button on the remote is almost flush. I did let them know to use a bigger silicone button so it's easy to feel through gloves.

    Update:

    Thermal protection details: FULL, RAPIDLY RESPONDING, ACTIVE THERMAL MANAGEMENT! Does have a "hard" step down with no air flow if temp continues to increase beyond the active control. Drops to 50% (about 800 lumens) but I kick the fan on and within 3-4 seconds output rapidly starts climbing again. During active control it's litterally 1 second before lux readings start increasing when I turn the fan on.

    Thermally stable on the sphere system (which airflow isn't great, just even around the entire head).



    Beam Shots (sorry the medium one looked like crap, i must have moved when trying to take the picture)

    Beam shot high:



    Beam Shot low:





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    Last edited by tigris99; 05-29-2016 at 01:13 PM.

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    Bar mounted with remote:







    Then better pictures on the helmet:





    Run time/lumen output graphs using 3 different packs:

    2 cell 3500mah Panasonic NCR18650GA pack:



    4 cell 5200mah Samsung 1865026F (same style pack used by Xeccon, Gemini, and Gloworm):


    4 cell 6400mah Panasonic NCR18650BE (pack included with light kit):


    Pictures of everything included:







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    Last edited by tigris99; 06-14-2016 at 12:00 PM.

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    Nice teaser! Subscribed.

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    Price? Battery pack with quality batteries as with the Wiz20? Looks good and can't wait to test it myself so when can I get one? I need my next light fix!
    Mole

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    Price will be ~$160 for full kit as best guess ATM.

    I gave the green light on it so will be early June (maybe sooner maybe not???) Before they have the first batch ready and to the US location.

    Battery pack uses EXACT same cells as WIZ20, so Panasonic NCR18650BF 3200mah. 4 cell pack they are considering also making a 2 cell.

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    Ok quick update:

    I pulled the front cover off and was seriously confused by what I was looking at.

    Now for the sake of protecting Ituos design, I won't explain in detail (and ask those that will understand my clues NOT POST IT, and do not ask cause I won't answer) but what I'm seeing is part of the thermal management control. Explains the insanely rapid response time to air flow changes. Took me a while to figure it out but it's really smart and different idea. Driver literally sees the emitter temperatures in real time instead of delay for driver to sense and respond to temperature changes itself.

    Really nice design idea. And it responds so much faster than gloworm or Gemini thermal management.

    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

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    will it be available as light head only ?

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    It was posted in the OP about light head only option.

    But yes it will be available.

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    Last edited by tigris99; 05-18-2016 at 05:30 PM.

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    It looks pretty good from what you have shown so far. Removable remote is a big plus for me. This has most of the options we asked for in the custom build: go pro mount compatible, programmable driver, wired remote etc. I don't understand why they have to use that stupid threaded connector on the wire.

    You have me a bit worried about the internal design with your last post. Is there a solid wall conducting heat to the outside or not?

    When you get a chance could please post picture of a top and side view of the light head. I want to get an idea of the depth of the fins.

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    I should have been a bit more clear, my last post was referring to an electronic matter. Nothing to do with case machining.

    Yes it has a full, solid wall and such. It's correctly designed internally.

    I'll get this pics posted soon.

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    Just for you Varider



    And beam shots added above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Just for you Varider
    Thanks

    That looks good to me. What do you think?

    Is that some sort of quick release slide on the buttom of the light (between the gopro adapter and the light)? That's a nice touch. Hopefully it's as sturdy as it looks.

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    Looks & sounds very nice. Any idea of lighthead only price?

    -Garry

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    Nothing on that yet, kit price was just a guess from our Ituo rep, should have prices next week

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Nothing on that yet, kit price was just a guess from our Ituo rep, should have prices next week

    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk
    Showing $154.99 on the website, is that not a valid price?
    Mole

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    They told me that price was current "thoughts" but nothing is finalized yet. My understanding is the current price is as high as it will be (the $160 I posted earlier), could be lower, won't know anything for sure till they make a final decision and pass the info on.

    Their still working on their product pictures and such so mine is what there is ATM.

    Remember, mine is a production sample so they are probably still doing a cost assessment for actual production runs in quantity. That's my guess on it. Just know nothing is finalized.

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    OK price info cam to me early and i was wrong, expected numbers i was given to be the highest. No they are "pre-order" sale price.

    Kit price is 175.99 normally ($154.95 pre-order sale)

    Light head only is that includes everything except battery pack and charger is $119.95 ($99.95 or 104.95 pre-order price, he wasnt sure exactly)

    And for reference the XP3 will be $209.95 regular price.

    Im not surprised though. Still cheaper that GW, around gemini pricing BUT:
    Panasonic 3200mah cells used in the packs (packs will be $64.99 iirc), fully reactive, real time thermal management, removable remote, gopro style mounting system, programmable and so on. So a few marks above GW, many above gemini, quality is there. And I can definitely say the lights hold up. Wiz20 has been through hell and back, still perfect.

    Ya I know, we were hoping for a little lower priced. But I just got a reality check as to why all these options get pricey when put together, so we dont see them. Especially panasonic cells used at this price range.

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    Excellent. Any info on "Fully programmable" driver?

    Is it this:

    "User programmable: 2 or 3 steady modes,
    programmable brightness at 10% intervals.
    Hidden mode options include multiple flash options and 5% steady mode"

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    Looks like Ituo is not messing around. My wiz20 is a very good self contained light. I've emailed Keith at Ituo and received fast replies to my questions about my wiz20. Support is there. Now this xp2 looks like a contender for sure. Even with a gw x2 I'm still considering buying this light.

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    Figured I'd throw in a quick update, Ituo said these will be in stock in the US almost a month exactly. Week of June 20-24th.

    Dirt's right. Seems Ituo is not messing around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Figured I'd throw in a quick update, Ituo said these will be in stock in the US almost a month exactly. Week of June 20-24th.

    Dirt's right. Seems Ituo is not messing around.

    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk
    Well I guess I won't have one by next weekend, Dang!

    Any impression yet on how this light works in regards to operating temperature? Is it cool running like the Wiz20 or "not so cool running" like the X2 and Duo?
    Mole

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    Well the WIZ20 doesn't need or use thermal step down, and I was able to test the thermal management on this.

    It's literally impossible to have a small dual emitter head push decent lumens and not get hot.

    But I haven't done a comparison test against the duo or x2 to see exactly how it does yet.

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    Can you show pictures of the remote plug? I am interested in knowing what type of connector it uses and where it plugs in. Is this a possible point where water can leak in? In the future I may want to know if I can make my own remote or at least an extension wire.

    Did you get a chance to take pictures of the internals while you took it apart? How thick is the wall behind the leds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Well the WIZ20 doesn't need or use thermal step down, and I was able to test the thermal management on this.

    It's literally impossible to have a small dual emitter head push decent lumens and not get hot.

    But I haven't done a comparison test against the duo or x2 to see exactly how it does yet.

    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk
    Not super important, I'll run tests when I get mine. While I understood the lower (compared to the X2 and Duo) output numbers on the Wiz20 as a "self-contained" compromise of output vs. run-time I was surprised the XP2 output while improved over the Wiz20 still trailed the other 2 lights slightly (considering this light is marketed to us lumen whores).
    Knowing the hot running nature of the X2 and my older Duo (new model sounds worse) and how both of those lights experience noticeable dimming when hot I was thinking if the XP2 is anything like my Wiz20 it should run cooler and loose less output to heat evening up its small power deficit @ 30 sec. at a more real-world operating temperature @ 15 min. (fan cooled).

    % lux loss from 30 sec. to 15 min.: X2 - 5.5%.....Duo 8.6%.....Wiz20 - 1.6%

    Multiply the percentage of power loss to the lumen #'s you got on your sphere and the XP2 would have the highest output! (I'm fairly comfortable using the older Duo as a substitute for the new model but using the Wiz20 as substitute for the XP2 is stretching a bit - why I'm questioning about how the XP2 handles the heat). Of course you have all the correct lights and a sphere (hint, hint), so if you could test this it would be ideal.
    Mole

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    I just wonder the real world performance of the wiz20 (great) vs the xp2? I'm not an az nm rider. Upstate NY. I understand there's a temp control by the LED. Why should someone buy this vs a gloworm x2 or a duo? I'm loving my wiz20 but I don't think I can realize any performance difference? Tell me I'm wrong...

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    The output thing, I didn't test with fan cooling. Was just a quick test. But it's output was literally within several lumens of the others.

    But comparisons are coming in time, got alot on my plate ATM, let me finish up base reviews then ill move onto my new project.

    Varider, I'll get pics when I can but modifications aren't really an option. The plug is custom molded around a male headphone plug. Button housing is also custom made and mods are going to damage the crap outta it. Expanded the diameter and oring to seal and lock the plug into the head. In line extension cutting existing wire and making it longer may be possible but I won't recommend it if your worried about water.

    Cant submerge it but I poured water over it and no issues for water getting in. I'm not sure how long you want that thing but it's insanely long in its own.

    And sorry not taking pictures of internals (I won't for new release brand name models to protect their designs) or disassembling to try and measure internal wall. It's plenty thick for heat transfer to the case based on what I see with the internal machining.

    Not trying to be a pain, but I've got 3 reviews going right now and a 4 on its way next week.

    Dirt. Besides a tad more lumens it's not meant to be a performance upgrade at all. Lumens are only about 100-150 more. But it's 1/3 the weight because it's not self contained. Allows for different sized packs based on user needs. Thus making helmet use more possible. Has remote. Beyond that there isn't some huge difference. But making all that happen and work well in something 1/3 the size is what causes the much higher price. Especially a removable remote, having it in hand, wasn't an easy task making that happen.

    It's a "everything we want in a standard (not self contained) light system" but if a wiz20 does the job and you don't need a remote, gopro mount, light that is low weight for helmet use, then the wiz20 has it all covered.

    So it has gopro mount set up, including bar mount. Uses Panasonic cells standard. Removable wired remote. Top button. Widely available and inexpensive optics in many varieties. Real time (instead of delayed) active thermal management. And lower cost.

    Gloworm: remote not removable. No on head button. Good thermal management but its based on driver only so there is a delay in response to temperature changes. No direct gopro mount compatibility (I'll have to double check). Very much the most expensive option. May have the most surface area (though much of it goes unused due to head layout). Spot optics are great but beyond that it's very lacking on optics choices.

    Gemini: No active thermal management, only hard step down to rather low output level. Uses band mounts only. Heads are a bit small to deal with output levels. On head button of duo is a pain in the rear (like the beloved yinding) both being on the rear and hard to find even with thin gloves Plus side is they have a good wireless system. Similar in price to XP2 but lacking in thermal performance and mounting design/options.



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    Last edited by tigris99; 05-22-2016 at 07:09 PM.

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    Varider, Ill get a picture posted of the plug itself and the rear view of the light tomorrow (have them on my phone, best camera I got now by a mile lol)

    Wall thickness is calculated guess as there is 2 thicknesses. one where the mcpcb is mounted into the head then the surrounding material. 1.5mm thick behind the mcpcb directly, 2.8mm thick everywhere else. 1mm is all thats needed since it solid wall, so all good there. I knew it was PLENTY thick, but since I was changing optics, figured Id go ahead and check it with the caliper.

    Mole: If I understand you correctly, you wanted to know the percentage of lux lost from initial start to 30 second reading. X2 and XP2 were neck and neck. 0.4% better on the XP2. Duo wasnt too far behind at 30 second reading, only 0.6% behind X2. XP2 was a 4.8% lux loss at 30 seconds.

    I matched optics in all 3 to make it as much "all else being equal" as possible. Surpisingly lumen ratings on this test at 30 seconds were within a few lumens of each other.

    At one minute, the gap had grown a lot. Duo was at 10%, X2 was at 8.3%........XP2 was at 6.1%. XP2 was much more steady than the other 2 with the Duo leading the way in lux lost for the 5 minute test time.

    XP2 current draw on high is 1.8A. 1.5mm thick fins with 1.6mm gaps 1.71 to 3.35mm depth (depending on location). Top sides and bottom

    X2 is 2.1A most surface area but fins are skinny and tightest spaced. .8mm thick with 1.5mm gaps, top and bottom only 3.4mm depth

    Duo is 2.5A and least surface area. 2.2mm thick, 1.9mm spacing and 1.35mm depth. All around head.

    XP2 is the most efficient wich is mainly why it handles the lumens the best. The driver is producing less heat than X2 or DUO (DUO would be the worst by far at 2.5A to get 1500 lumens), similar in surface area to the X2 but went with slightly thicker fins (which can be better since the tip which is exposed to direct air flow is wider).

    Duo basically though still a nice light, has lost this "competition". Only up side to it is the wireless remote system.

    XP2 and X2 are neck and neck for weight. XP2 has less voltage sag (.17v) under load than X2. Attribute that to the larger wire and less current draw, more so the current draw as x2 has 20awg wire. Duo is still 22awg.

    Ituo has one hell of an engineer. I love my gloworm lights but my equipment doesn't lie. Bang for buck XP2 wins by a good margin. My X2 is now shelved (well barred, new home is my handlebar display on my work table).

    Now if ituo would come out with an offset mounting system so my OCD for lights being centered doesnt both me when i mount it (ill fix that myself for now) we would have THE PERFECT light IMHO.

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    Ok thanks.

    So you put the same optics in all three lights (Glowworm, Duo, Ituo)? What's the lumen output of the three lights. You quote the amp draw, is that all using the same battery.

    You say that the Glowworm has the most surface area. That's the most important part of the heat transfer. I think to work out which lighthead is better, i.e. lower thermal resistance, you would actually have to model both lights in a CFD program. With the results you are getting I'm sure that both are good.

    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Wall thickness is calculated guess as there is 2 thicknesses. one where the mcpcb is mounted into the head then the surrounding material. 1.5mm thick behind the mcpcb directly, 2.8mm thick everywhere else. 1mm is all thats needed since it solid wall, so all good there. I knew it was PLENTY thick, but since I was changing optics, figured Id go ahead and check it with the caliper.
    I appreciate you going to the effort to measure the thickness of that surface. That thickness act as a thermal resistance. It's analogous to the resistance in an electric circuit. The thicker the surface, the less thermal resistance it has in the same way than making a wire in an electric circuit thicker makes it less resistant to current. The only downside to making it thicker is to makes the light heavier. So it's probably much better to have 2 mm thick wall than a 1 mm wall.

    Have you thought about leaving the light in the sphere for the entire run time of the battery? The mtbr light shootout used to do that with some surprising results.

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    They all came out just below 1600 lumens.

    Not that it made a single bit of difference but I did test on matching packs (I check current draw/outputs via 3 different packs. All came up the same with just a tiny change in voltage sag).

    One thing I've learned with messing with these lights, it's NOT just about surface area, has to be used correctly as well. That's why a bt21 is the best light for heat dissipation above all other dual emitter lights that exist.

    As we know there is a massive science involved in it.

    Could compare head designs if all had identical drivers as well, but with such a gap in driver efficiency, hard to say who did better on case design.

    The wall thickness thing: yes thicker is better to a point. But it's also a function of the amount of area it's being dispersed to.

    Go from the size of an emitter, heat transfered through the solder joints. That heat is rapidly spread all around the PCB for the emitter. Then transferred to the case.

    At this point you have a 1mm thick wall (in the case of this xp2, 20mm diameter ) that transfers the heat to the outer case.

    In this case (Wiz xp2 which again. Has 20mm diameter emitter housings), that translates to 62.83 square mm of material transfering heat to the outer case PER EMITTER. So 125.66 square mm of thermal transfer space to the outer case.

    That coming from 16 square mm of space that is the unit generating the heat.


    As for the leaving a light on the sphere for full run time, seems you didn't make it to checking out wiz20 or xeccon z11 review threads . I do a full runtime/output graph. Just haven't gotten the time to do it yet.

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    I was talking about the heat conducting wall thermal resistance, not the resistance of the mounting point. The leds are mounted on a vertical surface on star. The material underneath the star to the outer wall creates the thermal resistance. It's the cross sectional area of this plate, as well as the distance to the outer wall that determine the thermal resistance. Here thicker is better, no matter what, because it's less resistance.

    One to two mm of thickness doesn't sound like a lot to me, but maybe it's enough for this particular light running at this particular current. I sure hope they make it thicker for the triple.

    I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just remembering principles from the heat transfer class and decided to pass it on.

    Looking forward to your further tests. No, I hadn't seen your long term tests, or maybe I just forgot.

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    Ya thicker is better, your very right there.

    What I am trying to explain is have to take the heat dissipation needs versus weight and size restrictions of the light into account. Keeping down near limits where performance would be negatively effected is the way we have light weight but high output lights.

    You would be surprised how much beyond 1-2mm wall thickness would be needed to see more than a 1-2% gain in performance. Youd add 25-50g to a light before the added thickness provided any boost in performance. Surface area on the outside and how it transfers heat to the air would be much more worth it and much less of a weight penalty (if any).

    Just look at computer heat sinks. Rather thin. But go after surface area that has access to direct air flow.

    So ya your right, just over thinking the requirements of a couple LEDs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Mole: If I understand you correctly, you wanted to know the percentage of lux lost from initial start to 30 second reading. X2 and XP2 were neck and neck. 0.4% better on the XP2. Duo wasnt too far behind at 30 second reading, only 0.6% behind X2. XP2 was a 4.8% lux loss at 30 seconds.

    I matched optics in all 3 to make it as much "all else being equal" as possible. Surpisingly lumen ratings on this test at 30 seconds were within a few lumens of each other.

    At one minute, the gap had grown a lot. Duo was at 10%, X2 was at 8.3%........XP2 was at 6.1%. XP2 was much more steady than the other 2 with the Duo leading the way in lux lost for the 5 minute test time.
    Sorry if I wasn't clear on this. Looks like we got out wires crossed a little. What I was interested in was the difference in lumens between your 30 sec. posted results and what the lights had @ 15 min. Was interested in what their actual output was at normal operating temperatures and I figured 15 min. was more than enough time to fully warm up and stabilize. Luckily you checked the lights again @ 1 min. and I found those results far more telling that as I suspected the XP2 will compare far more favorably @ normal operating temps. or higher. Thanks for taking the time to run these tests and the driver info. Which optics did you use? Think I'm going to go ahead and place my order for one of these even though it may be a while till they get in.
    Mole

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    Mole, the only optics I had enough to do all the same, ituo/leddna optics.

    If I go stop optics set up the duo would drop overall a bit more start to finish below the other 2 and x2 would as well do to 1 frosted optic. But I wanted them even.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Mole, the only optics I had enough to do all the same, ituo/leddna optics.

    If I go stop optics set up the duo would drop overall a bit more start to finish below the other 2 and x2 would as well do to 1 frosted optic. But I wanted them even.

    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk
    You still run a frosted optic in you X2, I thought I taught you better than that! Ha Ha!
    Mole

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    Serious good review Tigress! With a more efficient output, should that translate into better run times for the xp2? One other thing, optics change for Ituo is really inexpensive comparatively....

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    Mole, I said "if" I ran stock optics, which x2 is a spot and a frosted. But I actually don't mind the frosted compared to other options because spill is more useable. But the only spot optics are good in my opinion. Not a fan of the wide angle except for road use.

    Dirt:. Other lights come with a 5200mah pack for the base kit and price. Xp2 is a 6400mah pack. So higher run time there too start. Then added a 0.3A lower draw vs X2 or 0.7A lower draw vs Duo on top of that.

    If we went to full protection (which I have 6800mah pack to run test) cut off, I'd bet it'll push 4hrs run time. 2.5-3hrs before we would see noticeable loss in output (deregulation of the driver) where as duo and x2 on stock packs would be far less.

    Other lights rate run time from fresh charge to protection cut off (ANSI FL-1 is from full charge start till output is down to only 10% of 30second output rating. Protection cuts off before 10% is ever reached). We dont have a "run time" spec for this light. They are waiting for my tests to confirm.

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    Oh forgot something:

    Varider: heres the testing I was talking about that I do on lights. A lot havent been done beyond initial lumen tests (those graphs take a lot of time to do so right now just trying to do it for review brand name lights only till i have more free time). Have more data I want to add and the graphs I plan on adding the current draw to the graph as well. Allow people to see a graph version of how a light behaves over the course of its run time.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Xv4/edit#gid=0

  38. #38
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    OK, I ordered mine yesterday. Review looks very positive + stunned by the overall performance/intelligent design of my Wiz20 (this light makes me feel like I got a whole lot more than what I paid for!!!) knew I'd eventually order one, so why wait.
    Mole

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    100% good value in the wiz20. Now the xp2, gotta pay for technology. I'm waiting on the lighthead price b4 considering purchase.... Look forward to more info on the xp2 when ya get it mrmole!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Road View Post
    100% good value in the wiz20. Now the xp2, gotta pay for technology. I'm waiting on the lighthead price b4 considering purchase.... Look forward to more info on the xp2 when ya get it mrmole!
    Knew you'd be able to relate being one of the few others who own a Wiz20. Hard to generate a lot of excitement with a commuter light. Just look at the number of pages on other commuter oriented light threads (Gloworm CX, Fenix, or any of the light related threads in the "commuter section") and the Wiz20 thread is about 4x their size so it will be interesting to see how well the XP2 and XP3 do in sales and overall interest here. It should be a while before I get the light and will be hot here by then so you'll definitely get my 100° ride temp report.
    Mole

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    OK price info cam to me early and i was wrong, expected numbers i was given to be the highest. No they are "pre-order" sale price.

    Kit price is 175.99 normally ($154.95 pre-order sale)

    Light head only is that includes everything except battery pack and charger is $119.95 ($99.95 or 104.95 pre-order price, he wasnt sure exactly)

    And for reference the XP3 will be $209.95 regular price.

    Im not surprised though. Still cheaper that GW, around gemini pricing BUT:
    Panasonic 3200mah cells used in the packs (packs will be $64.99 iirc), fully reactive, real time thermal management, removable remote, gopro style mounting system, programmable and so on. So a few marks above GW, many above gemini, quality is there. And I can definitely say the lights hold up. Wiz20 has been through hell and back, still perfect.

    Ya I know, we were hoping for a little lower priced. But I just got a reality check as to why all these options get pricey when put together, so we dont see them. Especially panasonic cells used at this price range.
    Dirt, the light pricing was listed earlier in the thread, $119.95 normal, pre-order will be $99.95.

    xp2 light head

    Varider, here's a pic of the back of the light head with the remote plugged in



    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by tigris99; 05-27-2016 at 12:03 AM.

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    Well, if I cancel my Yinding order from Gearbest, there's $25. I'm going to need a go pro mount $20, sh1t I'm halfway to an xp2 by my calculations. Red Yinding or for $50 more an xp2.....decisions/decisions!

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    Well I own 2 yindings and this isnt quite as light weight. I do like my yindings, but they are what they are, cheap Chinese lights.

    Xp2 puts out close to 600 more lumens than the yinding if that helps

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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Road View Post
    Well, if I cancel my Yinding order from Gearbest, there's $25. I'm going to need a go pro mount $20, sh1t I'm halfway to an xp2 by my calculations. Red Yinding or for $50 more an xp2.....decisions/decisions!
    Good plan canceling the Yinding order. Definitely worth $25 but you've been spoiled by the top mode button (that happens to be the best I've ever used) of your current Ituo light and I'm sure you would have hated the back positioned one on the Yinding (tied with the Duo for the worst I've ever used). I'm betting (since I haven't gotten mine yet) that in the long run if you get a XP2 you'll be much happier with it over the Yinding. Ituo light = "Wow, this is a really nice light. How did they make this for such a reasonable price". Yinding = "Meh".
    Mole

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    I keep looking at how freakin thick the wiring is on the xp2. They could have used a lesser gauge, like everybody else, and still had a good light. It's really hard for me to ignore the quality of their products. Happy wiz20 owner/ trying not to be a xp2 owner!!! Preorder is imminent.....

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    Ya they could have gone 20awg instead and still been perfect. A lot of lights are still stuck on 22awg, GW is the first I've had using 20awg.

    The 18AWG will be good for triple/quad versions that have a higher current draw.

    Only thing bugging me is i don't have a pack using 18awg wire to really test the voltage sag difference. Guess I'll have to wait till packs are ready for these.

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    Ok, gonna let this run while.i go to bed, should be done by the time I wake up

    This is what I go through to make the runtime output graphs. Let this sit and run, go through the camera (on time lapse photo mode) and manually enter in each data point.



    Can't wait till I can afford a lux meter (and find one that's got an idiot proof set up) that I can just plug into my desktop and it enters/plots everything for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Ya they could have gone 20awg instead and still been perfect. A lot of lights are still stuck on 22awg, GW is the first I've had using 20awg.

    The 18AWG will be good for triple/quad versions that have a higher current draw.

    Only thing bugging me is i don't have a pack using 18awg wire to really test the voltage sag difference. Guess I'll have to wait till packs are ready for these.
    This can be calculated if you know the lenght and current used at the moment. If the length is not to long then I would say 20AWG should be sufficient There is far less difference in voltage sag between 20 and 18AWG than between 22 and 20AWG.

    The connectors is next problem we should deal with at more powerfull lights. But this is problem when you have several lights and you want compatibility. At some point we should make a break and start with better connectors if we want to do step forward. It is essential to make something like XT30 or XT60 connectors on battery side and then use adapter for backward compatibility.

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    I have 2 pin connectors that use a very similar threaded nut design (may be the same just different plug style). Did pretty well in my first day project that was a 12.6v system pulling 3.5-4A.

    The problem isn't just the connectors. DC style is what EVERYONE uses in one for or another. Which needs to change.

    The big problem is that companies and people alike can't seem to get it through their head that the connector that connectors the battery to the light DOES NOT NEED TO BE WATER PROOF.

    Not a single reason for it. It doesn't effect anything ever. The pack itself and the light head itself can't have water get inside, that's it.

    Get the world to see the truth on that point and suddenly we can move forward to the best connectors for heavy abuse but exceptionally low resistance. What we know in the states as "Dean's Connectors". Not water proof at all. But probably the lowest resistance connector in this small of a form factor there is.

    And the funny part. Their used for all forms of RC. As well as tamiya, and traxxas has their own version of a Dean's connector that's larger. None are waterproof, but as long as pack and Electronics are waterproof. They can be submerged. I know because I have an older YouTube video I did of doing just that to a very expensive RC I used to own. Litterally drove it fully submerged through a creek.

    If I ever decide to build a light using more than 4A, I plan to use them (I still have a bunch laying around from those days).

    So there is a lot of options, just that the change has to be made to use better. But being better costs more, which is difficult these days.

    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

  50. #50
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    Here's the lumen/run time graph for the xp2 using just a 5200mah pack (same pack as gloworm, Gemini, and Xeccon use)



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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Oh forgot something:

    Varider: heres the testing I was talking about that I do on lights.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Xv4/edit#gid=0
    Thanks for that chart. So this light is about 400 lumens brighter than the stock Yinding

    That plug looks huge on the back of the light.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    Thanks for that chart. So this light is about 400 lumens brighter than the stock Yinding
    I think you were looking at the Wiz20 chart #'s (1399 lumens), the XP2 shows (1598 lumens) and Yinding (1022 lumens) so 576 difference.
    Mole

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    Yes, you're right, I confused those lights.

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    Something I forgot to post sooner:

    In checking the cells used by Ituo I realized I had forgot I had plenty of those cells. Their the Red Panasonic/Sanyo 3350 cells. So update to capacity for their packs, 6700mah rating.

    These cells actually have a slightly better voltage curve than standard ncr18650b green cells by about .1-.15v. They were the prerequisites to the NCR18650GA 3500mah.

    That said, obviously I have a pack which I used overnight to run a cycle for graph. So even though I dont have an "Ituo" pack, the next graph I post is the same as their packs.

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  55. #55
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    Ok here's the graphs for the Ituo pack and also a 2 cell 3500mah (NCR18650GA) pack. Gives a reference to those that want to know the runtime using a 2 cell pack on the helmet. Don't forget these are done running on high the entire time so runtime is drastically increased for those of us that change modes based on our speed/terrain.







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    i was thinkin that the full kit could actually be a better value in the long run due to the higher quality cells used. Like Tig said the 3200 panasonics are actually better than the ncr 18650b cells used in other packs that cost big$$$. so adding $54 on top of the lighthead price kinda makes sense and get the included charger as well. Run times are likely going to stomp any light in this class by a wide margin.

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    All that, I'm waiting on the xp3. My wiz20 is badass. Redundant. Now xp3? I'm all in

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    Ok dirt, here's something to put the whole matter into perspective. Ignoring everything about the lights besides the output and runtime:



    Yeap I took my data for all 3 and put a single chart together (my light geekiness is coming out way to much since mother nature is being a biatch)

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    Last edited by tigris99; 05-30-2016 at 06:38 PM.

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    Plotting those three curves on the same graph implies that other things are held constant, e.g. the power source. Otherwise it's misleading. I highly doubt that the ITUO runs 50 minutes longer than the Glowworms on the same battery pack. I think you probably used a higher capacity pack for the ITUO test.

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    That graph actually shows the runtime and performance of the lights with the standard issue battery packs they come with. So for what you get when you buy the whole kit for each light without upgrading (base priced kit), the xp2 does run a lot longer because of better batteries included.

    Edit: Just realized GW comes with 5800mah pack so it would have ran a bit longer, more in the middle between the DUO and the XP2. Ill have to get some 2900mah cells to do the test again.

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    I see what you mean. It makes sense from the perspective of a light buyer, as you can evaluate which light gives you a better value for your money.

    You could put "with stock batteries" in the title and put the capacity of the batteries in the legend or as a note somewhere.

    If you used the same battery for all three curves you could then directly compare the efficiency of the driver of each light. That's what I thought you were doing. My bad

  62. #62
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    No I can do that later, just gotta run the xp2 on a 5200 pack.

    I did that rather late last night so didn't think much about special notes.

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    Ok, here is the graph that shows driver efficiency. Since all 3 lights produce almost identical output at 30 seconds (<1% difference) just used identical 5200mah packs. The 5200mah pack used in first test for xp2 was a 26650 2cell pack, so runtime was slightly shorter due to how the protection boards are set and new cells. This was done using identical packs, used a few times each.



    Also updated post above with correction to graph title so it says battery capacity for packs included with said light kits.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Road View Post
    All that, I'm waiting on the xp3. My wiz20 is badass. Redundant. Now xp3? I'm all in
    As far as bike lights go "redundant" is my middle name. Use my 2-LED lights far more than any single (almost never) or any 3+ emitter lights that I own. Not saying I won't buy an XP3 too but have no issues with my XP2 purchase cause I know it will get used. Wish I had it now (about 3 more weeks)!!!
    Mole

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    Ok, weather looking good this week and trails around the area are in great shape. Be able to get out and give this light a good few rides at least.

    Supposed to get pretty warm this weekend (for us at least) so it will give a good indication of how the light will do in warmer temps.

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  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Ok, weather looking good this week and trails around the area are in great shape. Be able to get out and give this light a good few rides at least.

    Supposed to get pretty warm this weekend (for us at least) so it will give a good indication of how the light will do in warmer temps.

    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk
    Look forward to your next post here.
    Mole

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    OK got a ride in at local trail.... VERY NICE!!! I used WIZ20 with flood optics on the bars (60deg optics by rating) which that is my "perfection" in a bar light beam. Then the XP2 with 1 stock and 1 25deg (wide spot) optic. Should have gone both wide spot optics. But even then was an awesome ride!

    Quick side note, riding my fat bike up there has really paid off except like yesturday when I was used to my 29er again and almost wrecked on the fatty more than once due to stiffer/slower steering response of the fat bike (big wheels/tires and more front weighted). Going to try a bit shorter stem and see if I can liven the front up a little. But because of it my speed out there has been increasing greatly on my 29er. That includes the climbing. Love the fatty, it serves a warm weather purpose too. Bringing the pain so my 29er feels like nothing under me when I ride it.

    Anyway, will get video loaded when I get a chance. Previous review light is waiting on video to be loaded as well (im getting behind on getting videos uploaded, but editing is A LOT of work lol)

    JUST KNOW THAT THE XP2 IS RIGHT UP THERE WITH GLOWORM AND GEMINI. Have to test the heat matter but when you combine everything, the XP2 comes out on top in one aspect that i noticed: NO ENTERING PROGRAMMING WHEN TRYING TO CYCLE MODES ON THE MOVE! I have to think when using my gloworm lights to slowly switch modes. The XP2 is like my other lights, just click however fast to the mode I need.

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    Aight here's a segment from the ride:

    https://youtu.be/2_zYPsjpNFs

    Posting from my phone so may not show as an embedded video. Couldnt find the part where I came up on a racoon and scared the crap outta him.


    PS:. MR MOLE TAKE YOUR FLIPPING HEAT BACK, NOT SUPPOSED TO BE GETRING THIS HOT HERE TILL AUGUST, SUPPOSED TO BE CLOSE TO 100 HERE THIS WEEKEND ALREADY, I DONT WANT IT
    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

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    Looks like a smooth setup there Tigris. Did you get the xp2 to step down at all on your rides?

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    No because until starting today it's been in the low 60s at night. So even moving slow is enough to keep about any light head cool.

    Going to be hot by this weekend though so I'll give it a run then and see what happens. But with it having active management, I won't notice it while riding unless I sit still for a while and let it get hot enough for full step down. That's the thing with active management, small decreases in output to try and maintain head temperature without going into a solid step down. Only at a max temperature will it take a full step down to protect itself.

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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Aight here's a segment from the ride:

    https://youtu.be/2_zYPsjpNFs

    Posting from my phone so may not show as an embedded video. Couldnt find the part where I came up on a racoon and scared the crap outta him.


    PS:. MR MOLE TAKE YOUR FLIPPING HEAT BACK, NOT SUPPOSED TO BE GETRING THIS HOT HERE TILL AUGUST, SUPPOSED TO BE CLOSE TO 100 HERE THIS WEEKEND ALREADY, I DONT WANT IT
    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk
    I feel for you with that heat. I've not had time to acclimate to the super hot temps. we had here last weekend (115°) so I did early morning rides and I feel a lot better now plus the temps. have backed down almost 10°. I don't have to deal with your humidity though. Limits what you can do to stay cool. Here you can wet down your bandana/skull cap and it acts like a supercharged cooler, for you it just limits you body's ability to sweat out some heat. Frequent rest stops and cold water in your pack help to keep you comfortable and SAFE too. 2 frozen 16.9oz. water bottles fit great in a 100oz. Camelpack bladder (just pull them out of the freezer and cut the plastic off with a knife). If I think of anything else I'll add it later.

    Thanks for the video. A little difficult to isolate the XP2 beam but does a good job of showing the effects of those flood optics. I see why you prefer floods over elliptical's. Your terrain is much more 3D than where I ride. Elevation changes here a more gradual and better suited to elliptical optics shallower vertical angles of coverage. Excited to get my light and hope the eta is still in a couple of weeks.
    Mole

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    There is segments of the video where you get to see the spot of the xp2. But there's no difference in the beam pattern to any other light. Same as wiz20.

    That's the thing with lights. If optics and emitters are the same, the beam is going to be the same regardless of who makes the light.

    Ya the humidity here can be torture. A 2L pack and spare bottle last about an hour for me in the heat and humidity. I usually add ice to my water, never done the frozen thing and wait for it to thaw. I sweat so bad I have to drink every 10 minutes or so.

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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    Ya the humidity here can be torture. A 2L pack and spare bottle last about an hour for me in the heat and humidity. I usually add ice to my water, never done the frozen thing and wait for it to thaw. I sweat so bad I have to drink every 10 minutes or so.

    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk
    They're are just regular bottles of water frozen. My flatware knives have a small area of serration that cuts the thin plastic and it just peals off the frozen water like an egg shell. You need a wide mouth bladder opening but it ends up being 2 16.9oz. ice cubes. They last a lot longer than regular ice cubes. Either way your doing what you should and hydration with cold water. Stay "Cool" man.
    Mole

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    Get lots of water and get out there. I want to see the xp2 solo beamshots asap! Joking I ain't riding til sept by the looks of things. In my thirties, I loved the heat. In my 40s, not so much.

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    I posted solo beam shots in the op's

    I did notice the video section I posted you can see the beam no problem at the very end.

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    ** PRESS 3 seconds from ON position will turn the light off (it will go through the flash mode).** How do you find this in real live, certainly not my choice having a light flash before switching off

  77. #77
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    Not my first choice in flash location in the UI but not a big hassle. The WIZ20 is this way too. Doesnt bother me but now that you make me think about it probably better if it went off then to flash mode.

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    Updated with pictures of the mounts and battery pack.

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    As I wait for my XP2 to be delivered thing look better all the time. Things I gleaned off the XP3 thread: 1) Xeccon style battery bag a nice feature plus the higher voltage charger will be extra useful for some of my other batteries with high capacity cells. 2) Most useful accessory for me though will be the GoPro style helmet mount. Nearly all my lights have GoPro mounts on them and only work on my Bell-Super. Now I'll have the option of using different helmets and better yet not having to replace the GoPro mounts with o-ring mounts when I load out lights.
    Very nicely equipped. Along with performance/quality extras like this really up its "Bang for the buck".
    Mole

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    Yep I'm with ya on bang for the buck MRMOLE. If I didn't have my wiz20, I'd be all over the xp2.... Still considering it but waiting on xp3 presale price!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Road View Post
    Yep I'm with ya on bang for the buck MRMOLE. If I didn't have my wiz20, I'd be all over the xp2.... Still considering it but waiting on xp3 presale price!
    Even without any presale pricing I think the XP3 is probably a better buy so I can understand why you want to wait. For me the Wiz20 and XP2 are for different purposes. Sure the Wiz20 will handle trail riding just fine but for offroad I prefer a little less weight on the bars and at this power level the extra 200 lumens should provide a noticeable increase in throw. I also like having lots of choices to keep things interesting as I need to get some exercise every day (diabetic). Riding with different lights all the time helps me appreciate the really good ones more and in the case of something like the Yinding, reminds me that while there are better lights out there it get the job done just fine.
    Mole
    Last edited by MRMOLE; 06-24-2016 at 12:37 AM.

  82. #82
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    Ok got an update from Ituo, got a little bit longer to get in on the presale. Pushed back a little over a week, first week of July. Something about kit packaging meeting customs requirements for shipping Li-Ion batteries.

    Not bad for those on the fence, can get a good, full video done so you guys can really see how it does (and more time riding on the light in the heat)

    Also an update, I put the wide optics in my xp2 and used it for my bar light with the xp3 on the lid. Yes I know I'm backwards from "the standard way" which is most output on the bars. But I found trails are more evenly lit from wheel on out as far as i need to see this way. Just the way I like things.

    Was 82F and humid as hell. No step down or anything when ran at full power. Everything just worked awesome, no trying to avoid entering programming mode and really nice to be able to dial in my beam patterns exactly as I would like.

    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

  83. #83
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    Ok got an update from Ituo, got a little bit longer to get in on the presale. Pushed back a little over a week, first week of July.
    Ouch!

    Also an update, I put the wide optics in my xp2 and used it for my bar light with the xp3 on the lid. Yes I know I'm backwards from "the standard way" which is most output on the bars. But I found trails are more evenly lit from wheel on out as far as i need to see this way. Just the way I like things.

    Was 82F and humid as hell. No step down or anything when ran at full power. Everything just worked awesome, no trying to avoid entering programming mode and really nice to be able to dial in my beam patterns exactly as I would like.
    Are you going to have any video using the wide optics? Since we agree that the wide-spot is about 15° what's your estimate on the wide optic's degree spread? Glad (but not surprised) to hear the XP2's handling the heat OK.
    Mole

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    Bttr be no such delays with the xp3! Kidding, I'm still deciding which one to get. I do like the idea of running an xp2 on the helmet with my wiz20.... but the lumen junkie in me says xp3.

  85. #85
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Road View Post
    Bttr be no such delays with the xp3! Kidding, I'm still deciding which one to get. I do like the idea of running an xp2 on the helmet with my wiz20.... but the lumen junkie in me says xp3.[/QUOTE]
    This is important, listen to the lumen junkie!
    Mole

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    ^^^ x2 lol. I really dont need that many lumens, riding this and the xp3 the other night I was in medium the second half of the ride and was plenty for even the fastest part of the trail. But my medium is programmed 70% on both IIRC. So around 1100 on the wide beam and 1700 lumens on the lid. I was playing a lumen whore for a while and running both on high for almost 4000 lumens, but that was just too much light in such tight spaces. Will be fun when I get a chance to hit trails that are a bit more open (way less dew covered undergrowth, more fast flow mixed in) to blast these lights to see what they can really do on the trail.

    Speaking of, time to get off my ass and get the videos loaded to youtube....I hate doing it only because my internet is about useless during that time and 1080 HD video takes forever to upload

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    another delay on the xp2?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Road View Post
    another delay on the xp2?
    Starting to look that way but Ituo could be boxing my light up and getting it ready to ship out for all I know. Was pretty sure I wouldn't have the light this weekend, just hope it arrives early enough to get it by the end of next week. Considering the problems were bureaucratic rules and regulations and not totally in Ituo's control I'll just have to hope their delivery estimates are fairly accurate. Excited to get my hands on the new light though!
    Mole

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    As long as they get it together for the xp3 release, that's all that matters....

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirt Road View Post
    As long as they get it together for the xp3 release, that's all that matters....
    Got a PM about my light. Should ship out first of the week so packaging situation solved and won't affect XP3 shipments. I've got some modification ideas for the XP2 first of which is a "Vancbiker mount" that should work for the XP3 also.
    Mole

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    Great news. Full report wanted MRMOLE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    ......I've got some modification ideas for the XP2 first of which is a "Vancbiker mount" that should work for the XP3 also.
    Mole
    I thought that the XP2 came with a GoPro compatible mount. Are you thinking a finned adapter?
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    I thought that the XP2 came with a GoPro compatible mount. Are you thinking a finned adapter?
    Yes, the finned adapter was what I was talking about. I consider it a necessary accessory for operating a small high powered light in the desert environment I live in. I anticipate the XP2 with its more efficient driver and slightly larger light-head to handle thermal issues better than its Duo/X2 competitors. With the addition of your finned GoPro mount I hope to be able to operate the XP2 on the warmest nights without any activation of the thermal protection mode like I could with my BT21.
    Mole

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    When you get it, send me some pictures of the mounting surface with the factory mount removed. Then I'll work up an idea of what I can do to mod the finned adapter to fit the light.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    When you get it, send me some pictures of the mounting surface with the factory mount removed. Then I'll work up an idea of what I can do to mod the finned adapter to fit the light.
    Can do on the picture. I also have a XP3 ordered but lights not due in till the end of this month (est.). Hopefully the 2 & 3 will use the same mount so my plan is to send you one of the factory mounts to use as a template.
    Mole

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    I will check mine and make sure mount is the same for both. I just can't remember if the xp3 uses 2 or 3 mounting screws.

    Edit: yes both use 2x 2.5mm torx head screws to secure the head side of the slide lock that attaches the gopro adapter to the head.

    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigris99 View Post
    I will check mine and make sure mount is the same for both. I just can't remember if the xp3 uses 2 or 3 mounting screws.

    Edit: yes both use 2x 2.5mm torx head screws to secure the head side of the slide lock that attaches the gopro adapter to the head.

    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk
    Thanks! So the XP series only uses 2 torx screws instead of 3 that the Wiz20 uses which makes sense beause of the additional weight of the Wiz20. My question is are the slide locks the same (except the # of screws anchoring them) to where you could use a Wiz20 with a XP bar mount? I'd like to try the Wiz20 with a "Vancbiker GoPro bar mount" to get some horizontal adjustability but was thinking maybe the reason the mounts on the Wiz20 and all the other Ituo lights are different is because of the weight of the Wiz20 being too much for the thumbscrew interface area.
    Mole

  98. #98
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    No the mounts aren't the same. I tried that and it can be made to work but it isn't the most secure in the slide and you'll have a hellva time getting the gopro adapter off.

    The wiz20 is basically the only light that doesn't use that mounting set up. Wiz1-2 and XP series all use it.

    Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

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    XP2 is here! My mail doesn't arrive till around 3 pm and the battery took almost 6 hrs. to charge fully so only got a short ride in. Noticeably more punch than my Wiz20 but stock 10° optics narrower beam than the "wide spot" I run in the Wiz20 is not to my liking. I ordered a set of "wide spots" with the light so I'll be changing those tomorrow. Riding in the morning and again tomorrow night so I'll get a chance to try out the "wide spots" on a longer ride (expect 50 mi.) and should have more info. Sunday.

    Remembered some people had issues with their Gloworm remote cables being to short so I took a pic. of remote cable length compared to my X2. Ituo button also has vastly better feel too.

    Ituo WIZ XP2-005.jpg

    Mole

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    Looks good MRMOLE!

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