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  1. #1
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    Introducing Gloworm X2 - New Dual XM-L LED light system

    Hello,

    My name is Vag (Vaggelis) coming from Greece and together with Bruce from Gloworm Performance Products ( formely Gloworm Lites) in New Zealand we have been working since last August in order to design from scratch and produce with the highest standards a new Bike Light. We call our initiative Gloworm Manufacturing and we are more than proud to introduce to you our latest project.....

    Its name is Gloworm X2 and it is a dual XM-L that produces 1200 lumens. We have finished testing and we are about to launch the X2 just before New Year.

    Presale will start pretty soon and more information will be posted here.

    Take a close look at our teaser photo and focus on the size/ lumen rate.
    Also you can read a small review of our light here. We showed our first (not-anodized) prototype at "on your Bike Expo" in New Zealand. Feel free to check the link following for first impressions of riders who saw it live.

    On Your Bike – Day 2 | Spoke Magazine

    Please treat this post as a soft opening. More and more information and details (including beamshots) will be available soon.


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    Hey Vag, it's been a while,(hopefully the same Vag). Your X-2 looks like a slightly bigger and brighter version of the Piko. Your 1200 lumen claim, is this a claim that will be supported in the real world, as opposed to say, 850 true lumens after losses? The piko is limited due to it's size, but looks like your design will allow the Xm-L's to be driven a little harder. Do you have the output settings figured out yet? Anyway, looks good!!! Cheers!!!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Hey Vag, it's been a while,(hopefully the same Vag). Your X-2 looks like a slightly bigger and brighter version of the Piko. Your 1200 lumen claim, is this a claim that will be supported in the real world, as opposed to say, 850 true lumens after losses? The piko is limited due to it's size, but looks like your design will allow the Xm-L's to be driven a little harder. Do you have the output settings figured out yet? Anyway, looks good!!! Cheers!!!
    Hello,

    Yes the same Vag, but with few more lumen on my brains

    The 1200 Lumen is a claim of real Lumen. We have not used yet an integrating sphere but knowing every single aspect of our light production and spec makes us confident of this number. We have been working hard designing and testing for some time in order to accommodate heat and to achieve high optical efficiency. We drive both LEDs at 2A.

    Your guess is right. Slightly bigger than the Piko with the LEDs driven harder.

    To give you some idea about the beam: The combination of two optics (narrow and less narrow) gives an all around bright and smooth beam which we did like and do feel proud of. We just hope you'll agree with us once the beamshots are here(and you won't have to wait for long). If you can't wait few hours you can see them in our FB page.

    On behalf of the Gloworm Manufacturing Team
    Vag

    P.s.: InDept, I believe I owe you a hard case waterproof battery since last year. Please PM me with your address. You will receive it with our first batch of lights at around New Year.

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    Looks to be another real contender Vag. Nice to hear were talking honest lumens as MTBR members know their stuff lol. Guess it will come with a four cell battery as you wont get much run time on two? Thanx for the battery offer, but i can't double dip here. Chris and i sorted things out and he sent me one already. Thanx again. Cheers!!!

  5. #5
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    Very sweet indeed. Loving the light engine and mount design.

    Vag, what is the waterproofness specifications as far as IPX ratings go?

  6. #6
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    Hello

    @Indept
    Indeed the default battery will be a 4 pack with high capacity Japanese cells.
    It could also work great with a 6 cell battery which we are going to launch before February 2012. It will be compatible with battery packs from other vendors as we use the same connectors.

    We are also proud to introduce the Intelligent Mode Technology (IMT)
    IMT allows the user to select the programme which is suitable for their application. IMT features 4 programmes - each refined for their use. The 4 programmes are Adventure, Trail, Commuter and Bush. Each programme's settings are different and therefore have different runtimes. The user can easily select the programme on the run with a simple sequence of clicks. For example the trail mode is refined for Mountain Biking and features Low-High-Boost settings, plus super dim for when you are stopped or at the car etc. Now here's the catch - when you are riding you don't want to cycle through off or into super dim mode. With IMT these functions are accessed with long presses of the button.

    To give you an example on runtimes in our Boost setting 1200 lumen a 4 cell battery will last for 2.5 hours.
    In the High setting 800 lumen a 4 cell battery will run for 4 hours.

    @ Chromagftw

    IP ratings.
    We have not yet had the light officially tested, however we are 99% confident that the light will satisfy the test for IP67 (we've tried it) and we are 100% sure it will be IP66.

    For those who don't know IP ratings are as follows: IP65 Protected against low pressure jets of water from all directions - limited ingress. IP66 Protected against temporary flooding of water, e.g. for use on ship decks - limited immersion permitted.IP67 Protected against the effect of immersion between 15 cm and 1 m

    On behalf of the Gloworm Manufacturing Team,
    Vag

  7. #7
    007
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    Really interested in what you've described and am about to order a Lupine Piko, but if the details are right this might be a better option for me.

  8. #8
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    Very interesting. Now all we need is more info on the mounting set-up as well as those beam pics. Any idea on how much ( U$D ) these will sell for (?) and how much the lamp head alone will cost?

  9. #9
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    Gloworm are offering pre-order specials on this thing at $199 (retail will be around $239)

    From On Your Bike – Day 2 | Spoke Magazine

  10. #10
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    Hi Vag, glad all is going well for you. The light looks very interesting and promising to be use as a helmet light. I was looking forward to the Magicshine MJ880 but this one also caught my curiosity.

  11. #11
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    looks really good - several people on the DIY forum have similar form factor lights and they work well. The lumen claim sounds reasonable too, given that the theoretical output for 2 XM-Ls at 2A is ~1500lm. That'll make for a perfect helmet light - my 2 XM-Ls at 1.5A is great, 2A would be even better

    What are the mounting options?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batas View Post
    Gloworm are offering pre-order specials on this thing at $199 (retail will be around $239)

    From On Your Bike – Day 2 | Spoke Magazine
    Hello

    @Batas - It gets even better, what you have pointed out there is actually NZD, this works out at about USD$150-155. Our website (which will be launched on Friday) is based in NZD so remember to change the currency at the bottom left of the page to ensure you are working in what is right for you.

    @Cat-man-do We'll have some beam shots up for everyone very soon. All I can say at the moment is that the beam is very smooth with no hot spot, its about 23deg with very nice colour temperature.

    @Colleen C - Glad all is well with you to.

    @matthewmuppet and Cat-man-do - I have attached some 3D CAD drawings of the X2 with both the bar and helmet mount options. A lot of testing was done to ensure each option was simple, effective and most of all - secure. The bar mount (CNC machined and attached using an o-ring) is designed to sit over the stem and can be rotated forward for a lower profile (please excuse the missing screws!). The helmet mount (also CNC machined) is attached using velcro or cable ties, simple but effective. Finally the mounts are atttached to the lamp head using a specially designed screw (not pictured) and an o-ring bearing surface (an o-ring either side of the mount where the screw goes through), which allows the light to be swiveled without loosening the screw. Additionally the light head does not move about when riding over even the roughest terrain (bar or helmet mounted).

    Real photos of mounst will also be posted soon






    Greets

    On behalf of the Gloworm Manufacturing Team,
    Vag
    Last edited by Gloworm Manufacture; 12-10-2011 at 01:48 AM.

  13. #13
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    I will be watching this closely. Was going to order a Piko. Waiting for beam shots and if possible some shots against the new Piko.

  14. #14
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    It's good.

    I've held the prototype light in my hand. I was out last night helping take beam shot comparisons and I was pretty darned impressed with the light. Really good mix of spill and throw. No noticeable hotspot. Nice warm color. Good thermal management, so the light can handle the amps. I've seen the mounts too and they are pretty trick. I think you guys are gonna like this light.

    I have no comercial connection with Gloworm. I got involved because I was buying some batteries off them and we got talking about my Revolver light, which some may remember from the DIY forum about a year ago. I had planned to put it into production but was finding it all a bit too difficult, and it was really expensive to produce. A single barrel Revolver (running a LuxRC board at 1.1amp) is a theoretical 1100 lumens and the X2 is noticeably brighter with more spill, so I reckon the 1200 lumen claim is bang on.

    A lot of bang for your buck right here folks!

    b.
    Posting on the basis that ignorance shared is ignorance doubled.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    I will be watching this closely. Was going to order a Piko. Waiting for beam shots and if possible some shots against the new Piko.
    Hello,

    The beamshots will be up very soon, however we don't have a Piko to do any comparisons with.....yet. Initially we'll compare with our Gloworm Lite (Gemini Titan - P7 D bin version) this should give you a good idea of how bright the X2 really is. Size wise the X2 is a little larger and slightly heavier than the Piko.

    We'll get those shots up soon and some of the prototype mounted.


    On behalf of the Gloworm Manufacturing Team,
    Vag

  16. #16
    007
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    This all sounds really great . . . my concerns are related to reliability and service if something breaks.

    Also interested in seeing the battery . . . is this going to be a feasible helmet light with the battery mounted on the helmet?

  17. #17
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    Hello 007

    Regarding service and warranty, we have a great reputation in New Zealand for service and honoring warranty repair/replacement. You can see our facebook page for evidence of this. Having our manufacturing based is Asia means we can deal with service/warranties from 2 locations plus we are currently working on Distributors in Australia and the US.

    Our warranty is based around getting you back riding as soon as possible. Any obvious manufacturing defects are honored immediately without question. Other defects that occur will be dealt with swiftly.

    With reliability you can be assured that all products are manufactured with the highest standards in mind and tested well before send to market. Our circuitry and housing/mount is designed in New Zealand (not China) - I can vouch for the hours Bruce has spent in front of the computer! Both the housing and mounts are made from a 6061 Aluminium Alloy for strength and longetivity.

    Batteries will be a hard case, soft feel, IP65 (min) 4 cell battery - with power indicator. It will be moulded to fit naturally around a bicycle frame or stem. (pics to follow soon). It will be possible to mount to the helmet using the supplied velcro however it will be heavier than the Piko's 2 cell battery. We are considering a 2 cell battery version, however at max power of 2A you would be looking at a runtime of 1.25 - 1.5hrs depending on cells. It is not totally out of the question.

    @ 007 I hope that answers your question?

    On behalf of the Gloworm Manufacturing Team,
    Vag

  18. #18
    007
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    Thanks, Vag. It does help. I'd be very interested in a 2-cell battery that is designed for helmet use. A 4-cell I think would be much too big.

  19. #19
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    Heat...

    14+ watts in a package only "slightly" bigger than the Piko. Ouch.

    I'd say "working hard to accommodate the heat" is an understatement.

    The shops that are building/assembling these have to be working for pennies on the hour. It just boggles the mind.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by pethelman View Post
    14+ watts in a package only "slightly" bigger than the Piko. Ouch.

    I'd say "working hard to accommodate the heat" is an understatement.

    The shops that are building/assembling these have to be working for pennies on the hour. It just boggles the mind.

    Thermal management is the most difficult aspect of any small light build, but I think some of the big companies under-drive their lights in their heat related paranoia. These XML leds can be driven up to 3amps (with a lot of heat being generated at the driver) and the prototype does go up to that, but curiously the output is not noticeably better than running them at 2 amps. I was holding this in my hand at 2 amps in still air for quite some time and it never got close to being too hot to touch. If I tried that with my Revolver it would burn my hand, and yet, in real world usage on the bike my lights never get more than warm to the touch. Bruce tells me the production light has considerably more fin area, so more surface area, and better cooling.

    So seriously, heat isn't going to be any sort of problem whatsoever.

    b.
    Posting on the basis that ignorance shared is ignorance doubled.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bshallard View Post
    Thermal management is the most difficult aspect of any small light build, but I think some of the big companies under-drive their lights in their heat related paranoia. These XML leds can be driven up to 3amps (with a lot of heat being generated at the driver) and the prototype does go up to that, but curiously the output is not noticeably better than running them at 2 amps. I was holding this in my hand at 2 amps in still air for quite some time and it never got close to being too hot to touch. If I tried that with my Revolver it would burn my hand, and yet, in real world usage on the bike my lights never get more than warm to the touch. Bruce tells me the production light has considerably more fin area, so more surface area, and better cooling.

    So seriously, heat isn't going to be any sort of problem whatsoever.

    b.
    Not doubting the experience that you had with the prototype in any way whatsoever; however, my experiences may allow me to arrive at a slightly different conclusion.

    Managing heat is ALL about getting as much of the electrically generated power in the form of heat out to the outside world as efficiently as possible. We know that the light burns at least 14 watts on high, probably pushing 15 watts.

    With the very low thermal mass of the light, I can speak from experience that at those power levels with no air flow, the case should reach an equilibrium state in only a few minutes. I'm talking 2 or 3. If it never got hot to the touch during a longer time than that, then there are only a few possible conclusions:

    1. There is a high thermal resistance somewhere in the series path from the emitter to the outside world (surface of the case), and the LEDs are getting ridiculously hot.

    2. There was a thermal detection scheme being used in the controller that very quickly throttled the light back to much lower power levels, more on the order of 5 or 6 watts to achieve the "not very hot" feeling for an extended amount of time in still air.

    3. The laws of thermodynamics were momentarily suspended... Ok, kidding.

    But seriously, if the prototype was indeed running at 14 watts, then I would contend just the opposite. Namely that it was doing a very poor job of managing the heat and that your "Revolver" was superior in that respect. The fact that your light, which got so hot while sitting still, was only warm to the touch while moving means exactly that it was doing an excellent job of moving the heat away from the internal electronics and into the ambient air.

    Clearly, there is something about that prototype test that we don't know. The need to add "considerable" heat transfer surface area in the production model means that the deficiency was "caught" before they went into production and has been attempted to be remedied. Make no mistake about it, 15 watts in a package this small is a serious engineering challenge. Repeated over-temperature stresses on electrical components is a slow killer. Those "overly paranoid" companies are in essence building long term value into their products with more conservative designs. It's exactly analogous to the top-fuel dragster vs. daily driver scenario. By golly you can get 15000 horsepower out of an engine and go 300 mph at the end of a quarter mile, but you'll have to rebuild the engine at the end of it. Or you can rebuild the engine after a considerably less exciting 300000 miles.

    You have also noticed the very real effect that our eyes do not perceive increases in brightness in a "linear" fashion. (Same thing goes for our ears by the way). The necessary increase in electrical power is EXPONENTIAL in order to produce meaningful increases in brightness for a given source of light. It's easy to see the difference between say 600 and 1200 lumens, but once you're at 1200, you've got to pour on some serious power to have that next big jump up. Furthermore, I would argue that 1200 lumens from any one source of light is enough. Just stop right there with a reasonably shaped beam and you'll be a happy camper. 1000 to 1200 real lumens over a 20 to 25 degree round beam is about the tipping point. Beyond that, if you want to add more lumens, they are most effectively added over a wider area or in a separate light, like a helmet light. Companies that are trying to push the lumen numbers up to 3000 from a single light are just shooting themselves in the foot with regard to real world performance... there, I said it.

    Take everything I just said as strictly my opinion. Not claiming to be the authority on someone else's light. If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, then Lupine should considered themselves highly flattered indeed, yet again, by this light.

  22. #22
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    Hello,

    Nice to see all the comments coming.
    I would like to make some clarifications when it comes to thermal management:

    1. Our surface area is more than 1 square inch per watt. According to our design engineer this is enough for thermal management. This is a fact that has been also confirmed during our tests.

    2. The whole build is Aluminum and there is no high thermal resistance inside the light. We would never do this as it is obvious to everybody how bad excessive heat is for the life of the light.

    On Behalf of the Gloworm Manufacturing Team,
    Vag

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by pethelman View Post
    Not doubting the experience that you had with the prototype in any way whatsoever; however, my experiences may allow me to arrive at a slightly different conclusion.

    Managing heat is ALL about getting as much of the electrically generated power in the form of heat out to the outside world as efficiently as possible. We know that the light burns at least 14 watts on high, probably pushing 15 watts.

    With the very low thermal mass of the light, I can speak from experience that at those power levels with no air flow, the case should reach an equilibrium state in only a few minutes. I'm talking 2 or 3. If it never got hot to the touch during a longer time than that, then there are only a few possible conclusions:

    1. There is a high thermal resistance somewhere in the series path from the emitter to the outside world (surface of the case), and the LEDs are getting ridiculously hot.

    2. There was a thermal detection scheme being used in the controller that very quickly throttled the light back to much lower power levels, more on the order of 5 or 6 watts to achieve the "not very hot" feeling for an extended amount of time in still air.

    3. The laws of thermodynamics were momentarily suspended... Ok, kidding.

    But seriously, if the prototype was indeed running at 14 watts, then I would contend just the opposite. Namely that it was doing a very poor job of managing the heat and that your "Revolver" was superior in that respect. The fact that your light, which got so hot while sitting still, was only warm to the touch while moving means exactly that it was doing an excellent job of moving the heat away from the internal electronics and into the ambient air.

    Clearly, there is something about that prototype test that we don't know. The need to add "considerable" heat transfer surface area in the production model means that the deficiency was "caught" before they went into production and has been attempted to be remedied. Make no mistake about it, 15 watts in a package this small is a serious engineering challenge. Repeated over-temperature stresses on electrical components is a slow killer. Those "overly paranoid" companies are in essence building long term value into their products with more conservative designs. It's exactly analogous to the top-fuel dragster vs. daily driver scenario. By golly you can get 15000 horsepower out of an engine and go 300 mph at the end of a quarter mile, but you'll have to rebuild the engine at the end of it. Or you can rebuild the engine after a considerably less exciting 300000 miles.

    You have also noticed the very real effect that our eyes do not perceive increases in brightness in a "linear" fashion. (Same thing goes for our ears by the way). The necessary increase in electrical power is EXPONENTIAL in order to produce meaningful increases in brightness for a given source of light. It's easy to see the difference between say 600 and 1200 lumens, but once you're at 1200, you've got to pour on some serious power to have that next big jump up. Furthermore, I would argue that 1200 lumens from any one source of light is enough. Just stop right there with a reasonably shaped beam and you'll be a happy camper. 1000 to 1200 real lumens over a 20 to 25 degree round beam is about the tipping point. Beyond that, if you want to add more lumens, they are most effectively added over a wider area or in a separate light, like a helmet light. Companies that are trying to push the lumen numbers up to 3000 from a single light are just shooting themselves in the foot with regard to real world performance... there, I said it.

    Take everything I just said as strictly my opinion. Not claiming to be the authority on someone else's light. If imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, then Lupine should considered themselves highly flattered indeed, yet again, by this light.

    I have considered your opinion, and concluded that you are wrong.

    Just so it is understood, I went along to where Bruce was planning to snap some beam shots because I was curious about the how a 2up XML light would compare to my 2200 lumen set-up. Mostly because I was toying with the idea of building a 4xml helmet set-up (for my own personal use). Unlike a lot of people, I don't give a crap how heavy a battery I have to carry. I just want stupid amounts of light in front of me from the smallest, lightest possible package. I actually use a second double Revolver on my bars, so quite often I'm rocking 4400 theoretical lumens.
    XMLs seem to be the way people are going these days. There are plenty of double and triple XML builds on the DIY forum, along with some quads too, and some big big light being put out. I was feeling a bit behind the times with my XPG based set-up.

    You make it sound like there is some secrecy going on, but I was just giving my experience as an impartial bystander. I don't have a horse in this race, and I wouldn't buy one, because I only use lights I make myself. I run mine way closer to the edge in terms of watts per gram/surface area... whatever. I thought the X2 was a good light. It didn't dim down while we had it running. I would have noticed. My Revolvers get hot when standing still because they are really really small. They genuinely need consistent air-flow to keep cool, and when I'm not moving, I turn them down to stop them overheating.
    This X2 has more mass than my light and more surface area and it appears to me to handle the heat with no problems.

    Compared to a single barrel Revolver, it is bigger, heavier, brighter, has a better beam pattern and is MUCH cheaper.

    That's a real world observation.
    Posting on the basis that ignorance shared is ignorance doubled.

  24. #24
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    Hello again,

    Here come some beamshots on boost mode. The photos are taken following the mtbr settings so you can have an apples to apples comparison with similar photos posted on this site.

    As mentioned before comparison photos are soon to come.
    Here you can see an "open space" photo and a trail photo.
    Please pay attention to the tiny white tin on the ground (present in both photos). We use it as a distance marker.

    In the open space photo:
    Tin is at 25 meters distance. Trees in background is at 60 meters distance.

    In the trail photo:
    Tin is at 15 meters distance.

    Enjoy!
    On behalf of the Gloworm Manufacturing Team
    Vag





    Last edited by Gloworm Manufacture; 11-30-2011 at 09:37 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bshallard View Post
    I have considered your opinion, and concluded that you are wrong.

    Just so it is understood, I went along to where Bruce was planning to snap some beam shots because I was curious about the how a 2up XML light would compare to my 2200 lumen set-up. Mostly because I was toying with the idea of building a 4xml helmet set-up (for my own personal use). Unlike a lot of people, I don't give a crap how heavy a battery I have to carry. I just want stupid amounts of light in front of me from the smallest, lightest possible package. I actually use a second double Revolver on my bars, so quite often I'm rocking 4400 theoretical lumens.
    XMLs seem to be the way people are going these days. There are plenty of double and triple XML builds on the DIY forum, along with some quads too, and some big big light being put out. I was feeling a bit behind the times with my XPG based set-up.

    You make it sound like there is some secrecy going on, but I was just giving my experience as an impartial bystander. I don't have a horse in this race, and I wouldn't buy one, because I only use lights I make myself. I run mine way closer to the edge in terms of watts per gram/surface area... whatever. I thought the X2 was a good light. It didn't dim down while we had it running. I would have noticed. My Revolvers get hot when standing still because they are really really small. They genuinely need consistent air-flow to keep cool, and when I'm not moving, I turn them down to stop them overheating.
    This X2 has more mass than my light and more surface area and it appears to me to handle the heat with no problems.

    Compared to a single barrel Revolver, it is bigger, heavier, brighter, has a better beam pattern and is MUCH cheaper.

    That's a real world observation.
    Fair enough... I apologize for making it sound like there was some secrecy going on. Certainly not my intention. Given your description of your much smaller light, the marked differences certainly sound reasonable.

    My conclusions were based largely on my experience with a light that I build with a very similar lumen output and similar wattage. Total mass and dimensions look reasonably similar, but I have over 2 square inches per watt due to some extreme fin machining (not cheap by the way). I use some of the highest performance thermal epoxy on the market (Arctic Alumina) to bond the LED boards directly to the 1-piece black anodized housing. And with only 12 watts dissipated in the LEDs (~14 total system power), I can get the case up to about 120 degF in 6 minutes in free air before the somewhat conservative 60degC thermal limit kicks in. 120 degF is a good bit more than barely warm feeling. If you're talking 10 minutes or more in your hand at the stated 2 amp drive (approximately 15 watts total system power) in still air and it's barely warm to the touch, then color me amazed. I'm obviously missing something, I just can't figure out what it is. Oh well. Cheers.

    Oh, and for what it's worth I notice from post #1 to post #12 about a 2x increase in the finned surface area. Does that mean the CAD image is the production version and the color image is the prototype that you were holding?
    Last edited by pethelman; 11-30-2011 at 10:00 PM.

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