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  1. #1
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    Generator lights. How do they compare?

    How would an Edelux or one of those supernova lights compare to the typical 1000 lumen headlight?

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    For the rider - less light, better placed. For oncoming traffic - less glare

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by aBicycle View Post
    How would an Edelux or one of those supernova lights compare to the typical 1000 lumen headlight?
    generator lights are mostly worthless. 100 year old technology ( generator ) versus current technology ( lithium ). the only reason they exist at all is because in Germany there was ( until last month ) a law that required all bikes to be sold with them ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by aBicycle View Post
    How would an Edelux or one of those supernova lights compare to the typical 1000 lumen headlight?
    I run a B&M cyo (much the same as the edelux) which gives a nice even 60 lux beam. Excellent for road riding, beats any of the "1000"lm systems, super reliable and you don't need to replace the batteries every few years.
    headlight beams from Peter White Cycles
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    basically Dynamo lights are good if you don't need a lot of light. there is some convenience and peace of mind in never having to recharge anything or buy new batteries, but the total amount of light will be limited.

    you should figure about maybe 200 Lumens for a good Dynamo light, which could beat a bad "1000 lumen" chinese light that actually produces 500 Lumens and has an awful beam pattern. but a good Dynamo setup will cost hundreds of $ while that said bad chinese light will cost $50, so it's not really a fair comparison is it ?

    if you compare that B&M Dynamo setup to something like L&M Stella 500 then the Dynamo light will be dimmer, the beam pattern will only be marginally better, it will create drag when you ride and and if you have more than 1 bike you will not be able to easily switch the light from one bike to another.

    Busch & Muller will soon begin coming out with lithium powered IQ2 lights at which point there will no longer be any reason left to use Dynamos at all.

    of course some people will continue to use Dynamos just like there are still people who use Vinyl records and Vacuum Tube amplifiers. and just like them, they will continue telling everybody that we're all doing it wrong and that Vinyl or Vacuum Tubes is the ONLY way to go, or that Dynamos are the best, that Stick Shift is better than Double Clutch, that "steel is real" etc.

    there is nothing we can do about these people

  6. #6
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    Do you have any experience with any modern dynamo lights Androgen?

    What are you doing in this thread?
    DIY LED Bike Lights:
    A few Dynamo builds and some Small battery lights

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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit View Post
    Do you have any experience with any modern dynamo lights Androgen?

    What are you doing in this thread?
    well i have the battery powered Philips SafeRide and i know that the Dynamo version of the same light is pretty much the same but LESS powerful.

    admittedly it was the battery life, not output that made me dump the SafeRide.

    but if you consider that for example an Ultegra bike will cost you several hundreds more than a 105 bike for example and it will maybe give you 0.1 mph advantage compare this to a Dynamo light that will probably cost you 0.5 mph and you see that actually the Dynamo light maker should pay YOU hundreds of dollars to use their product, not the other way around.

    our legs simply don't produce enough power to drive big lights without feeling the drag no matter how efficient the dynamo itself is. let's assume that you're putting out 200 watts when you're riding and that your Dynamo is 100% efficient and that your light is 10 watts ( like Lupine Piko ) well that will be a very noticeable drag of 5% - that's as much drag as your entire drivetrain. that's why Dynamos only produce 3 watts - enough to drive half an XML LED.

    even if LED efficiency improves the Dynamo lights are still going to be behind Lithium lights because LED efficiency of lithium lights will improve by the same amount.

    Tesla Model S is lithium powered and puts down 400 horsepower, that's about 300,000 watts. That's 100,000 times more power than a hub dynamo produces. That's the power of Lithium.

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    I second znomit's suggestion. You have no experience with dynamo lights and you should stfu.

  9. #9
    6ix
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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    generator lights are mostly worthless. 100 year old technology ( generator ) versus current technology ( lithium )
    Listen to your fellow electrical engineer. Why are you dynamo & generator inventors so obtuse? Sell your companies and labs right now. Not only are they worthless tomorrow you will lose your kid's college fund because....
    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    the Dynamo light maker should pay YOU hundreds of dollars to use their product, not the other way around.
    OMG! Sell Sell Sell.

    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    our legs simply don't produce enough power to drive big lights without feeling the drag no matter how efficient the dynamo itself is.
    Equivalent power is used if you didn't have excessive batteries and lights on the bike. That 1 kilo worth of lights on the helmet is OK. Factoring in vacuum between the ears there is no net weight gain on the shoulders.

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    You people are some opinionated mother ****ers, you know?

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    Quote Originally Posted by aBicycle View Post
    You people are some opinionated mother ****ers, you know?
    Don't pay any attention to Androgen's answers. He is prone to insulting anyone whose opinions differ from his. 6ix is poking some crap at Andro, not you. Znomit is solid. He will have sound advice based on real world experience. Others may chime in with Dynamo light opinions, some may be good, others not so much. Since dynamo lights are less prevalent in mountain biking than road biking, you may get more advice/experiences on a road oriented forum.

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    On those lights, the supernova said it only output like 300 lumens. How can that compare with 100 lumens?

    I see that the lux ratings are high, which I find strange, especially in light of the fact that the luxos beams are insanely wide.

    What's going on here? Why don't the numbers add up to the output?

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    androgen is the big reason why I don't spend any time on this forum, it seems such a waste of time when it's mostly him talking to himself.

    anyway aBicycle, nevermind all of that. Talk to ktronik off here and do some digging and you'll find a couple of interesting dynamo lights. With a modern hub generator you can get a decent power output and very little drag when not in use. They're not as common as they probably should be, despite their convenience and decent output, largely because of the inherent cost (mostly in the hub and wheel build) of buying one. Plus you're somewhat restricted to one bike, unless you can swap wheels between bikes.

    If I had the cash I'd love to make one for my commuter. I couldn't think of anything more convenient, plus when the weather's truly crappy, there's no standing around in the snow fumbling with lights throw thick gloves. Just switch on and go. However, I don't have the cash, so I'll keep using my battery powered lights

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by aBicycle View Post
    I see that the lux ratings are high, which I find strange, especially in light of the fact that the luxos beams are insanely wide.

    What's going on here? Why don't the numbers add up to the output?
    well a good beam is wide but flat, with most of the brightness concentrated in just a narrow strip of light along the horizon. if that's where the Lux is measured it will be quite high.

    here's SafeRide beam projected onto a wall:



    this beam looks very wide and even on the ground, but when projected on the wall it has a very sharp hotspot, which is how it gets 80 Lux despite only having about 350 lumens.

    note however, that Lux measured by Germans are at 10 meters, and has nothing to do with MTBR Lux as measured in MTBR lights shootout which uses a completely different measurement that isn't even related ...

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by aBicycle View Post
    On those lights, the supernova said it only output like 300 lumens. How can that compare with 100 lumens?
    Supernova E3 is >600lm measured, so ballpark to what you get from your typical "1000lm" single XML light.
    Supernova E3 TRIPLE quality features

    What are you using it for?
    DIY LED Bike Lights:
    A few Dynamo builds and some Small battery lights

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit View Post
    Supernova E3 is >600lm measured, so ballpark to what you get from your typical "1000lm" single XML light.
    Supernova E3 TRIPLE quality features

    What are you using it for?
    if LEDs only produce 100 lumens per watt and dynamos only produce 3 watts how can it have 600 lumens ?

    i'm not disputing it, i just want to know how this is possible ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    if LEDs only produce 100 lumens per watt and dynamos only produce 3 watts how can it have 600 lumens ?

    i'm not disputing it, i just want to know how this is possible ?
    Dynamos produces a constant current of 500mA, which is 3W with a typical incandescent bulb, but >10W with the right circuit.
    Bicycle Electronics, Power LEDs, Dynamos and Batteries, Driver Circuits
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by znomit View Post
    Dynamos produces a constant current of 500mA, which is 3W with a typical incandescent bulb, but >10W with the right circuit.
    Bicycle Electronics, Power LEDs, Dynamos and Batteries, Driver Circuits
    wait a minute. 6 volts X 0.5 Amps = 3 watts. watts can be LESS than the product of amps and volts ( if the load is reactive ) but can never be more. so the only way watts can be more than 3 is if either voltage is more than 6 or current is more than 0.5

    ?

    anyway i have good news ! i registered on CPF so soon there will be less of me on here ...

    rejoice !

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    Okay, so they both measure lumens differently, supernova and mtbr.com that is.

    What does 200 lumens for the e3 pro 2 and 600 for the e3 pro triple equate to then?

    And it would be used for dirt roads, good roads, some off road, etc.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by aBicycle View Post
    Okay, so they both measure lumens differently, supernova and mtbr.com that is.

    What does 200 lumens for the e3 pro 2 and 600 for the e3 pro triple equate to then?

    And it would be used for dirt roads, good roads, some off road, etc.
    no all Lumens are the same. but Lux are different.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    wait a minute.
    ...
    anyway i have good news ! i registered on CPF so soon there will be less of me on here ...

    rejoice !
    u will soon b evicted from CPF, see rule 4892, attidude

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by h2o-o View Post
    u will soon b evicted from CPF, see rule 4892, attidude
    this is your first post on the forum ? it's the only thing of value you had to say ? nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    wait a minute. 6 volts X 0.5 Amps = 3 watts. watts can be LESS than the product of amps and volts ( if the load is reactive ) but can never be more. so the only way watts can be more than 3 is if either voltage is more than 6 or current is more than 0.5
    A dynamo is not a battery (ie a voltage source) it is a (constant) current source.

    Please read the link above, here is a pic from it
    Generator lights. How do they compare?-dualmodecomp.gif
    Bicycle Dynamos


    /Håkan
    SWEDEN

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by HakanC View Post
    A dynamo is not a battery (ie a voltage source) it is a (constant) current source.

    Please read the link above, here is a pic from it
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DualModeComp.gif 
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ID:	836010
    Bicycle Dynamos


    /Håkan
    SWEDEN
    fine, i will take your word for it. so if it can deliver 10 watts then assuming 100 lumen / watt from LED and 80% efficiency from the light system overall let's say then a Dynamo light can in theory produce 800 lumens.

    that would actually be pretty good, because most people run their lights at 50% power most of the time, so it would be comparable to 1600 lumen light in this way.

    Dinotte XML3 which is a 1500 lumen light is $229 so we can say that a Dynamo system would be comparable to this, and while the Dynamo system will probably cost more, battery replacement and spare batteries also cost something so i guess if your rides are very long where you can run out of battery and if you don't mind the drag then i guess Dynamo can be a good solution.

    my logic for Dynamos being worthless was based on 3 watts assumption - i didn't think manufacturers would lie and claim that their 10 watt dynamo is actually 3 watts ...

    sometimes stuff just doesn't make any logical sense ...

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    fine, i will take your word for it.
    Don't
    Why not learn how dynamos work?


    my logic for Dynamos being worthless was based on 3 watts assumption...
    ...
    sometimes stuff just doesn't make any logical sense ...
    It is logical, an electrical engineer can explain the difference betweeen a battery and a dynamo to You.
    Or You could read up on dynamo basics by Your self:
    Bicycle Dynamo Basics


    /Håkan
    SWEDEN

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