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  1. #1
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    Gemini Olympia 2100 Xm-L2

    Anyone have the new Gemini?
    They look interesting with big numbers from a pretty honest vendor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    Anyone have the new Gemini?
    They look interesting with big numbers from a pretty honest vendor.
    Not the newest version but I have two (2013) Olympia's and they are awesome.

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    Think the 2014 model is worth an extra $50 over last years model? Is it truly 300 lumens brighter?

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    Quote Originally Posted by blantonator View Post
    Think the 2014 model is worth an extra $50 over last years model? Is it truly 300 lumens brighter?
    No. Run an Olympia and a duo and you'll have a killer set up.

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    IMO as a bar light I see little advantage to the additional lumens (I own 2 of the XML T6 version Olympia's and prefer them set @ 80%). Where I do see an advantage with the new lights more efficient emitter is lower running temp. (I live in the desert) and increased run time. (big advantage if you run a 4 cell battery). Run as a helmet light I usually use full power so I'm guessing I'd like more lumens but probably not as much as a narrower focused optic. All that considered it's not worth an upgrade to me but if it were a choice on a new purchase I'd definitely get the newest version.
    Mole

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    Quote Originally Posted by blantonator View Post
    Think the 2014 model is worth an extra $50 over last years model? Is it truly 300 lumens brighter?
    Last years model is a very good product and plenty of lumens. That been said last years lumen claims were quite overstated by Gemini. My Duo had claimed 1400 lumens when in fact it was measured just under 1100, same with the Olympia who's 1800 lumen claims measured out well under 1500 on MTBR's 2013 light shootout. Gemini however this year I saw on a website a few weeks back are making claims that this years lumen claims are based on measured outputs and have sent Francois their products for testing. If proven to be true claims the extra money in my opinion is well worth it as the output gains will be significant.

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    Though I don't own a Gemini lamp I think getting an lamp with upgraded LED's is only important if ONE; you are a total light geek and just want the brightest output and TWO; You are into endurance events where the extra output at lower levels comes into play.

    Both the Gemini's and the new Gloworm's have programmable mode levels. I plan on testing the efficiency of the new XM-L2 ( U2 ) by comparing the previous GW to the new version. I already know the new version is brighter. Now I want to know how much more efficient the lamp is when run on the lower levels. I will be testing the standard low settings using a two cell. I figure the increase in efficiency will either translate one of two ways; either the new lamp will be slightly brighter and run about the same time OR output will be about the same for both lamps BUT run time on the newer lamp will be a bit longer. Should make for an interesting test. As in all tests involving "run time" it will take some time so likely I will do it over the weekend...maybe.

    Would be nice if someone else could do the same thing with the Gemini's Duo or Olympia's.

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    Thanks for your input, Cat.
    I am looking for a good strong bar light...maybe...to replace my 3x XML clone( which has been great)>
    If the light from the new Gemini is that much better...it would be worth it to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Though I don't own a Gemini lamp I think getting an lamp with upgraded LED's is only important if ONE; you are a total light geek and just want the brightest output and TWO; You are into endurance events where the extra output at lower levels comes into play.

    Both the Gemini's and the new Gloworm's have programmable mode levels. I plan on testing the efficiency of the new XM-L2 ( U2 ) by comparing the previous GW to the new version. I already know the new version is brighter. Now I want to know how much more efficient the lamp is when run on the lower levels. I will be testing the standard low settings using a two cell. I figure the increase in efficiency will either translate one of two ways; either the new lamp will be slightly brighter and run about the same time OR output will be about the same for both lamps BUT run time on the newer lamp will be a bit longer. Should make for an interesting test. As in all tests involving "run time" it will take some time so likely I will do it over the weekend...maybe.

    Would be nice if someone else could do the same thing with the Gemini's Duo or Olympia's.
    Well Cat you hit the nail on the head with me for sure as I am a light geek!! But you did touch on a couple of important issues that lumens aside I really would like to se in my set up, and all systems in the future.

    - Enough led efficiency that I could get the output I have now and run times, while stepping down a size in battery capacity reducing overall weight on my two set ups.

    - Cooler running leds so that I could also achieve the higher outputs while needing less airflow to keep the lamp heads cool based on same ambient temperature.

    I do have poor night vision despite been a light geek so yes i'm guilty of dwelling on lumens however lumens are useless if their not delivered with quality in beam shaping and features such as UI and build.

    I'm really looking forward to your tests results Cat-man-do and hope they show a significant improvement in efficiency with the new XM-L2's. Cheers!!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    -
    I do have poor night vision despite been a light geek so yes i'm guilty of dwelling on lumens however lumens are useless if their not delivered with quality in beam shaping and features such as UI and build.
    !
    I'm in the same boat....bad night vision.
    And as amazing...and cheap...as these clones are...I always want more light.
    As happy as I am with the 3x clone....if the new Gemini ( or any light) is that much brighter...I would buy it

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    ....I'm really looking forward to your tests results Cat-man-do and hope they show a significant improvement in efficiency with the new XM-L2's. Cheers!!
    Here's a quick comparison of the two factory *sub-low modes ( *press and hold special low mode ) ( ~@1.5M )

    470 lux vs 570 lux
    . The v3 is noticeably brighter. Likely there will not be much difference in run time BUT...that remains to be seen.

    When I finish the full test I will transfer the information over to the current thread on the Gloworm X2 v3.

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    That's approx. 20% difference if drawing same current. Very impressive, thanx!!

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    What's going on with Gemini??? I see on the 2014 light shout out that the NEW Olympia despite it's 2100 lumen claims and new XM-L2 emitters has no measured improvement over last years model, this doesn't seem right and wonder if the light may have stepped down before the measurement was taken. The duo is only up marginally as well to 1208 lumens despite it's 1500 lumen claim. I'll have to mention it on the shoot out thread and maybe see if Francois can re measure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    What's going on with Gemini??? I see on the 2014 light shout out that the NEW Olympia despite it's 2100 lumen claims and new XM-L2 emitters has no measured improvement over last years model, this doesn't seem right and wonder if the light may have stepped down before the measurement was taken. The duo is only up marginally as well to 1208 lumens despite it's 1500 lumen claim. I'll have to mention it on the shoot out thread and maybe see if Francois can re measure.
    link?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by blantonator View Post
    link?
    Yes Please.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blantonator View Post
    Thanks, didn't know the did a new shootout. WoW lux is only up 12.

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    2013 Olympia tunnel shot

    2014 Olympia tunnel shot

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    It's hard to believe those photos are with the same settings with only 12 measured lumens separating the two. Sure makes the 2014 Olympia look well worth the upgrade despite the lumen claims. Beam pattern looks wide and even as well with good punch.

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    doesn't look much different here

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    It's hard to believe those photos are with the same settings with only 12 measured lumens separating the two. Sure makes the 2014 Olympia look well worth the upgrade despite the lumen claims. Beam pattern looks wide and even as well with good punch.
    Sometimes....you have to look past the numbers.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    Sometimes....you have to look past the numbers.
    the graph above disagrees. Looks like there are a few more lumens at the spot, but nothing anywhere else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    It's hard to believe those photos are with the same settings with only 12 measured lumens separating the two. Sure makes the 2014 Olympia look well worth the upgrade despite the lumen claims. Beam pattern looks wide and even as well with good punch.
    I think most will agree with you the lumen count doesn't match the beamshot here. Something is amiss and I am sure Chris will be asking for a re-test. Not saying this is the case but if I had to guess and this is plain conjecture, I suspect the beamshot was taken first on Hi setting @ 100%. Between then and the sphere test Gemini's 10% incremental/decremental mode was accidently activated. The reading could be 70% of its actual Hi.
    Leonard - All things Xeccon + Beyond
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbRevolution View Post
    I think most will agree with you the lumen count doesn't match the beamshot here. The reading could be 70% of its actual Hi.
    Agreed, and was ready to pull the trigger on a 2013, however if these photos are actually true, well guess what.

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    Something isn't adding up. Just by going off the tunnel shots, the 2014 blows the 2013 version away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharddog03 View Post
    Something isn't adding up. Just by going off the tunnel shots, the 2014 blows the 2013 version away.
    I would take the 2013 to 2014 pictures with a grain of salt. if you look at the L&M TAZ 1200, same light from 2013 to 2014 they also look vastly different. I would only compare pictures from the same year, too many variables when looking at two years pictures.

    check out the Taz 1200
    Old: http://reviews.mtbr.com/wp-content/u...-Taz-12002.jpg
    New: http://reviews.mtbr.com/wp-content/u...M-Taz-1200.jpg

  27. #27
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    Maybe the "whiter" new led?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharddog03 View Post
    Maybe the "whiter" new led?
    or white balance of camera. I feel it's pretty unlikely that ALL the 2014 lights now dramatically whiter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    Sometimes....you have to look past the numbers.
    Your right there,,,,,, and I do. However I kind of use measured lumens as the foundation of what i'm looking for, kind of like brake horsepower in a muscle car. Power or lumens only take you so far though,,,, you must have good delivery of the lumens, smooth&braud, with good punch. A good UI with the programmability that best suits the user. And for me build quality, as for where I ride and often solo I want the best chance I can get that my lights are going to get me home safe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Your right there,,,,,, and I do. However I kind of use measured lumens as the foundation of what i'm looking for, kind of like brake horsepower in a muscle car. Power or lumens only take you so far though,,,, you must have good delivery of the lumens, smooth & broad, with good punch. A good UI with the programmability that best suits the user. And for me build quality, as for were I ride and often solo I want the best chance I can get that my lights are going to get me home safe.
    Well said, so what are you using (that has all those qualities)?

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    I'll keep this short as I don't want to hijack this thread. I use two Betty-R-12's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    I'll keep this short as I don't want to hijack this thread. I use two Betty-R-12's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    I'll keep this short as I don't want to hijack this thread. I use two Betty-R-12's.
    Will you adopt me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    I'll keep this short as I don't want to hijack this thread. I use two Betty-R-12's.
    That oughta do it!

    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    Will you adopt me?
    Remember his name is "indebt"

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    LOL!! With the evolution of lights over the past few years you can now get crazy good set ups for lots less money than what I spent. I mean,,,, a pair of Olympia's are light weight very bright with the features I look for,, and the reliability of Chinese made lights if good quality control is managed can be quite good as is been proven by many brands.

  36. #36
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    Overstating lumens is dumb. Previous generation Gemini lights were overstated by:

    Olympia: 18.5%
    Duo: 22.1%
    Xera: 18.1%

    The new ones are overstated by:

    Olympia: 29.7%
    Duo: 19.5%
    Xera: 16.9%

    So, spending a lot on a new Olympia might not be a good idea since it only puts out 0.7% more lumens than the previous model (7.8% more lux - 141 versus 153).

    The Xera is now the least overstated, claimed-lumen Gemini light at 16.9%. It also puts out more lumens/lux percentage wise versus the previous model: 11.8%/10% more lumens/lux.

    I like my Gemini lights but wish they were more honest in their lumen claims.

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    I'm still perplexed by the Olympia's numbers and still believe something is up, I mean not getting even 500 lumens a piece out of the new XM-L2's is crazy. It's got to be that for what ever the reason the light was not operating at 100% output.

    I'm with you too TCW that especially after over stating last years claims, i'm disappointed with the continuance from Gemini. I still really like their products though.

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    I have the 2100 (over 6 night rides) and I like how it comes with the head band and mounts, it is nicely put together package but it's not putting out 2100 lumen that's for sure. I just don't like the beam I guess, it's not working for my eyes at all. I have a Baja Designs Strkr 2 on the bars also. The Olympia is not more than twice as bright as the Strykr.

    I'm going to just spend some more for the Seca 2000 or Wilma 7 or 10 and give the Olympia 2100 to my son for a re-gift.

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    Sorry to hear your not happy with the new Olympia dirt-nerd. As for perception of brightness with any light upgrade, I had read some posts on this forum that for our eyes to perceive double the brightness you would need up to four times the actual lumens. That been said I hope Gemini chimes in on the results of the new Olympia. This is a $300 light and unless for what ever the reason the output doesn't measure much closer to their claims regardless if it is in need of a driver upgrade or whatever they may end up with a bust for this year and potential lost sales in the future as Gemini may loose the trust of some potential customers. I do like their products so I hope they resolve the discrepancy's.

    The L&M or Wilma however are a whole new animal and regardless of your choice should be very happy with one of those products. Good luck!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Sorry to hear your not happy with the new Olympia dirt-nerd. As for perception of brightness with any light upgrade, I had read some posts on this forum that for our eyes to perceive double the brightness you would need up to four times the actual lumens. That been said I hope Gemini chimes in on the results of the new Olympia. This is a $300 light and unless for what ever the reason the output doesn't measure much closer to their claims regardless if it is in need of a driver upgrade or whatever they may end up with a bust for this year and potential lost sales in the future as Gemini may loose the trust of some potential customers. I do like their products so I hope they resolve the discrepancy's.

    The L&M or Wilma however are a whole new animal and regardless of your choice should be very happy with one of those products. Good luck!!
    Well said

    I am very happy with my 2013 Gemini light but I will start looking into Lupine especially the Wilma.

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    It wouldn't surprise me if this years Wilma turns out to be one of Francois's favorite lighting systems. It is a beast!!

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    Did you notice that Lupine was the only other brand that had overstated claimed lumens for each of their lights? By a lesser amount than Gemini, but still. 2 of the 6 Lezynes were overstated, and 2 of 7 NiteRiders were also overstated. That's assuming the measurement process is 100 percent accurate, and that the claims are for the minimum to expect with sample variation, rather than average.

    No Olympia content, but I love my new Duo 1500 anyway. I don't do 2 light setups because I'm often running, skiing, etc as much as biking. For my uses as single light on the headband, it has the best beam shape/quality for me. That's judged by the beamshot photos on the mtbr shootout, Action LED's new graphs of lux vs. angle from center, and how happy I am with the actual beam in use.

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    Yes I noticed and am quite surprised considering how bang on Lupine's claims were last year. I think if claims were within a couple percent we would all be forgiving as a margin of error but as you mention there are some that have understated their claims as well by quite a margin.

    I have last years Duo so I understand what it is you like about yours. It's a very nice set-up for sure and versatile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirt-nerd View Post
    I have the 2100 (over 6 night rides) and I like how it comes with the head band and mounts, it is nicely put together package but it's not putting out 2100 lumen that's for sure. I just don't like the beam I guess, it's not working for my eyes at all. I have a Baja Designs Strkr 2 on the bars also. The Olympia is not more than twice as bright as the Strykr.

    I'm going to just spend some more for the Seca 2000 or Wilma 7 or 10 and give the Olympia 2100 to my son for a re-gift.
    Not everyone is going to like the output from the XM-L2 ( T-6 ) LED's particularly when used with optics. Should still be brighter than the previous Olympia model just not as noticeable due to the warmer beam tint. Personally I don't own one but I would think it would be a great bar lamp.

    Gemini should of waited for the availability of the XM-L2 ( U2's ). If they did I don't think people would of been questioning the brightness of the lamp.

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    Gemini Olympia 2100 Xm-L2

    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Sorry to hear your not happy with the new Olympia dirt-nerd. As for perception of brightness with any light upgrade, I had read some posts on this forum that for our eyes to perceive double the brightness you would need up to four times the actual lumens. That been said I hope Gemini chimes in on the results of the new Olympia. This is a $300 light and unless for what ever the reason the output doesn't measure much closer to their claims regardless if it is in need of a driver upgrade or whatever they may end up with a bust for this year and potential lost sales in the future as Gemini may loose the trust of some potential customers. I do like their products so I hope they resolve the discrepancy's.

    The L&M or Wilma however are a whole new animal and regardless of your choice should be very happy with one of those products. Good luck!!
    Thanks, that makes sense. I still think it's a great package, my bad eyes are going to need more light than I thought this year.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    I know all about bad eyes,,,, I have poor night vision and guess it's my fifty year old eyes catching up to me.

    On the choices of L&M or the Wilma,, I haven't seen the L&M beam in person but consensus is it has the best beam in the business, that been said the Wilma's beam is no slouch and has an extra 100 lux output over the Seca 2000. Just my 2 cents.

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    I used to run an L&M Seca 1700 on the bar and I can tell you from experience that it has a nearly-perfect beam pattern (as demonstrated by the mtbr tunnel beam shot). However, due to the fact that I have impaired night vision, the throw was insufficient on fast, technical downhills. Two improvements that would make the Seca the ultimate bar light: (1) Significant increase in throw; (2) Remote control (dimming the light quickly for other trail users is difficult and dangerous at speed, particularly on rough sections).

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    I ended up ordering a 2013 Olympia, They are $215 (20% off) minus another 10% at action LED. That's $75 to another light. I considered a Seca and I get a pretty good deal on them through my shop, but they're too big, expensive and proprietary battery cable.

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    I just read the review of this light and the photo shows the box for a 1700 lumen Olympia. I'm wondering if this would explain lack of output. Seems like a major detail to overlook, but who knows?

  50. #50
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    Action LED should consider changing these statements:

    "A triple CREE XM-L2 LED Light with 2100 lumens of actual output..."

    "NEW for 2014, is the DUO LED Light System. Gram-for-gram, it is one of the brightest lights of the year delivering a staggering 1500 lumens and weighing only 63g for the Light Head...."

    "With an output of 950 lumens (actual), you can be sure the XERA LED Light System will provide ample light for most uses...."

    Can't figure why I'm this way but I like honesty. I must be a weirdo or something.

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