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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekbob View Post
    I just read the review of this light and the photo shows the box for a 1700 lumen Olympia. I'm wondering if this would explain lack of output. Seems like a major detail to overlook, but who knows?
    Where did you see that?? The only review I could find with that 1700 lumen Olympia was in the 2013 review. 2014 review isn't out yet that i'm aware of. By the looks of it Gemini should have used that same box anyway for 2014.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Where did you see that?? The only review I could find with that 1700 lumen Olympia was in the 2013 review. 2014 review isn't out yet that i'm aware of. By the looks of it Gemini should have used that same box anyway for 2014.
    I can't find the link anymore. I remember it said under weaknesses the 2100 lumens are a gross overstatement. It was off to the side under popular mtbr articles iirc. I even posted a comment under the name "Some Dude" saying the box was for last years Olympia.

  3. #53
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    Here's the link. And yes...the box is for the 1700 model.
    Review: Gemini Lights Olympia 2100 | Mountain Bike Review

  4. #54
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    Wouldn't that be an over site if Gemini sent last years light by mistake, sure would explain the lack of improved output.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt View Post
    Wouldn't that be an over site if Gemini sent last years light by mistake, sure would explain the lack of improved output.
    Or if MTBR doesn't know what they are testing....

  6. #56
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    It looks like they re-used the pictures from last year's light shootout with the exception of the beam shots.

  7. #57
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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    Here's the link. And yes...the box is for the 1700 model.
    Review: Gemini Lights Olympia 2100 | Mountain Bike Review
    Since Chris hasn't chimed in on our discussion it may be time for me to shoot him an email and see if he can maybe clear some things up. Or it could be that he is trying to do that before responding.

  9. #59
    TCW
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    Or maybe he's thinking "eff it" and shutting the operation down.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekbob View Post
    It looks like they re-used the pictures from last year's light shootout with the exception of the beam shots.
    +1
    Good catch derekbob!! Having looked at both the 2014/2013 photo's, they look identical to me.

  11. #61
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    What's more shocking is the laziness and lack of skill from the local taggers/graffiti artists. NO NEW PAINT since last years scribbilings. Or do I smell a conspiracy?........
    Switzerland doesn't need a bike park, Switzerland is a bike park.

  12. #62
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    I really lose respect for Gemini for over rating their lights, I was going to try the new Olympia 2100. Not now when it's under 1500 L. One of the reason's I like Serfas so much they under rated their lights. I think I'll try the new Gloworm XS 2100 true L.- Can get Light head and everything but battery and charger for 220.00.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgw7000 View Post
    I really lose respect for Gemini for over rating their lights, I was going to try the new Olympia 2100. Not now when it's under 1500 L. One of the reason's I like Serfas so much they under rated their lights. I think I'll try the new Gloworm XS 2100 true L.- Can get Light head and everything but battery and charger for 220.00.
    Did Gemini overstate?
    Or was the test wrong?
    Or a little of both?
    Maybe ALL the tests are wrong?

  14. #64
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    The test was likely accurate. 100%, probably not, but probably could be verified within a couple percentage points with another integrating sphere. Remember last year they overstated by quite a bit, espcially on the Duo. Still, their lights are nice: really small, light weight, great no-frills programming, etc. It would be nice if all manufacturers would state lumens with at least 95% accuracy.

    Remind me of Audio/Video gear and the watts per channel crap.

  15. #65
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    Don't get me wrong I do like my Duo and Xera, I feel they are well made and produce a nice clean spread. MTBR rated them, I also did my own testing !! They are over rated as far as output lumens in my opinion. Gloworm is better and has my trust !!

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCW View Post
    Overstating lumens is dumb. Previous generation Gemini lights were overstated by:

    Olympia: 18.5%
    Duo: 22.1%
    Xera: 18.1%

    The new ones are overstated by:

    Olympia: 29.7%
    Duo: 19.5%
    Xera: 16.9%

    So, spending a lot on a new Olympia might not be a good idea since it only puts out 0.7% more lumens than the previous model (7.8% more lux - 141 versus 153).

    The Xera is now the least overstated, claimed-lumen Gemini light at 16.9%. It also puts out more lumens/lux percentage wise versus the previous model: 11.8%/10% more lumens/lux.

    I like my Gemini lights but wish they were more honest in their lumen claims.
    I would say that you should use the actual lumen number as the base of the percentage calculation.

    Gemini 1477 lumens measured, 2100 claimed

    ((2100-1477)/1477 ) *100 = 42.2 %

    So it's overrated by 42%. It's still a good light though, and it comes in pretty high on the lumens-per-dollar chart that Fourtrax put together.

  17. #67
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    Ugh, right on varider, your math is an accurate description of the overstating of lumens. Disgusting. Definitely on par with Magicshine claims. Doesn't the 880 claim 2200 lumens but comes in around 1500 ish? MagicGeminiShine lights rule.

    I just receommended a buddy get the 2013 Olympia/Xera but piece it together instead of buying the package deals.

    I figured with the 10% off coupon the setup would cost $278 for both lights including 2 chargers, 2 4-cell batteries and an extension cord. He uses a Specialized helmet so direct mounting the Xera to a cross vent works fine. That's a lot of light for minimal dollars. I predict he gets a couple Solarstorm X2s for under $100 instead.

  18. #68
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    Remember when "lux" was supposed to be more important than "lumens"? Compare the lux & lumens of the Gemini Olympia vs the Seca Race:

    Lumens: 1477 vs 2022 (Seca Race has 36.9% more lumens)
    Lux: 153 vs 170 (Seca Race has 11.1% more lux)
    $/Lux: 1.96 vs 2.94 (Seca Race costs 50% more $ per lux)

    It seems like the Olympia is being punished in these tests for having a wide & even beam pattern. Maybe someday when people say lux is more important they will actually mean it?

  19. #69
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    The lux rating does redeem it a bit. That's why I still recommend Gemini lights to friends. I really like my Olympia/Duo setup, my wife likes her Olympia/Xera setup. I was just disappointed the new verions didn't measure closer to spec in the integrating sphere. No reason to upgrade. Now, if there had been a 20% increase, like maybe actually getting close to 1800 real lumens, then I would've bought a couple new Olympias as soon as they became avaiable.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Here's a quick comparison of the two factory *sub-low modes ( *press and hold special low mode ) ( ~@1.5M )

    . The v3 is noticeably brighter. Likely there will not be much difference in run time BUT...that remains to be seen.

    When I finish the full test I will transfer the information over to the current thread on the Gloworm X2 v3.
    Hey Cat-man-do,, have you had any time to work on your testing as I haven't seen any action on the X2 v3 thread??

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCW View Post
    The lux rating does redeem it a bit. That's why I still recommend Gemini lights to friends. I really like my Olympia/Duo setup, my wife likes her Olympia/Xera setup. I was just disappointed the new verions didn't measure closer to spec in the integrating sphere. No reason to upgrade. Now, if there had been a 20% increase, like maybe actually getting close to 1800 real lumens, then I would've bought a couple new Olympias as soon as they became avaiable.
    Hi. Are you running the 6 or 4 cell version. How are you satisfied with the runtimes?

    BR

  22. #72
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    Four cell on all our Gemini lights. Run times are good. If it's a long ride then I'll run the Olympia at 80% to extend the times.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    Did Gemini overstate?
    Or was the test wrong?
    Or a little of both?
    Maybe ALL the tests are wrong?
    I think that the testing STANDARDS that MTBR uses and every manufacturer are most likely different. I think some of the lights could rate lower on the MTBR test because they take the measurement a little later than the manufacturer maybe would. The manufacturer rating might not include enough time for the light to warm up and power down a bit, where as the MTBR measurement might wait long enough for a light with poorer heat dissapation characteristics to capture the stepdown in output.

    I could be completely wrong, but I think it's the difference in testing methods and timing. Fan speed and volume of airflow during the test alone could have a huge impact.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharddog03 View Post
    2013 Olympia tunnel shot

    2014 Olympia tunnel shot
    I don't think the difference in the actual light outputs are that big from 2013 to 2014 for the Gemini Olympia (pictured above). The lumen test at least says so.

    I think the problem here is with the way the photo's are taken. If you look at the shots, the camera angle is completely different. The 2013 shot was taken from behind and to the left side of the light and the 2014 shot almost centered behind the light head. I think in 2013 they did not yet have a standardized way of where they placed the camera for the shot and this year I think they are doing a lot better in this respect.

    The reviews still are pretty haphazard too but improving. For instance some bigger lights get knocked for being heavy, while other lights of the same or bigger size and weight does not. Or for instance in the case of the Halo it gets knocked for possibly being bad in wet or misty condition. I think MOST powerful lights mounted on the helmet (especially) would be bad under such conditions. In general, not the same aspects of the lights are compared and sometimes the plusses and minuses are very random for each light.

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by stu06 View Post
    I used to run an L&M Seca 1700 on the bar and I can tell you from experience that it has a nearly-perfect beam pattern (as demonstrated by the mtbr tunnel beam shot). However, due to the fact that I have impaired night vision, the throw was insufficient on fast, technical downhills. Two improvements that would make the Seca the ultimate bar light: (1) Significant increase in throw; (2) Remote control (dimming the light quickly for other trail users is difficult and dangerous at speed, particularly on rough sections).
    Stu, I think you might like the Lupine beam patterns a bit more. I think they are available with 3 different beam angles/width though. To my eyes the Lupine beams are shaped like a spot beam (it lights things up in a round or circular pattern) but the spot is pretty wide. Not as wide with the spread of a Seca (I don't think any light can beat the Seca in this respect) or most dedicated flood lights, but much wider than the typical spot. IMO it's a very good combination of throw and spread. With the light mounted on the lid I think you can work around the spread issue a bit easier than mounting it on the handlebar.

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