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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini Lights View Post
    The cutoff point normally occurs at 63C 1C (temperature of the outside case). We have tested and retested our lights to ensure the safe handling for our customers. Whilst we appreciate your concern for safety, you can be rest assured that it is perfectly safe to use our light. We don't appreciate your spreading of false claims, saying that the light will in fact burn people and permanently damage the LEDs. We would not release a product if this was the case.

    As for Action LED Lights statement of 78C, I feel that it was perhaps a miscommunication and the 78C was referring to the cutoff point of the temperature sensor on board.

    Now put this all aside, there is never the case where the use of a high powered LED light (i.e. Olympia) must strictly be used on the highest mode, indoors and without ventilation. We say this because low mode is all that is ever required to see things indoors and without moving. We will leave the other reasoning up to you because we don't feel it is necessary to state such obvious facts. Normal common sense tells you that if you feel the light heating up, reduce the power. If by chance, you can't do this for whatever reason, the overheat protection kicks in.
    Thanks Gemini for your clarifications here, and again let me re-iterate that I appologize for all commentary that was/is disparaging of the lights. I clearly let my "soapbox" cloud my better judgement, and I have, to whatever degree possible gone back through previous posts, to make corrections reflecting as much, so as not to mislead any readers.

    I do, in fact, take a very conservative approach to light building and suscribe to the philosophy that the rider should never have to worry about heat while they're riding. This means that regardless of the power level, or temperature of the day, or speed that they're riding, they should just be able to set the light and "forget it." And I have no reason to suspect otherwise for these lights.

    The worst case scenario that was presented here (power on high, indoors, no air-flow), I agree is absurd. But as we know, weird things happen, and perhaps of utmost concern is if children get the light in their hands (probably not a bad idea to add this to the list of warnings... keep out of reach of children). Believe it or not, one of the first things I tell my customers to do is set the light on a hard surface indoors and turn it on full power and just watch it for about 5 to 6 minutes till the thermal protection kicks in. At this point the surface of the case is around 125F to 130F, and I suggest that they touch and handle the light at this point to get a "feel" of what the maximum case temperature should be. Then if at some point in the future the light is ever found to be much hotter, it'll be obvious that there's a problem, and it needs to be shut off.

    More consumer awareness can only be a good thing. More consideration on my part to not make "accusations"... even better.

  2. #152
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    Ok, I'm hoping this temp thing is behind us now. The only reason why I did the test is because there was a dark cloud hanging over us in the begining of this thread on page one concerning with the temp and package size. I'm hoping the finding is informitive for owners of the Olympia or future customers. Based on the data, for me, it is comforting to know that I can leave the light on for X amount of minute with no airflow. I'm thinking about 5 minutes or less if the light was cold or less if the ambient temp of the light is warmer. On top of that, the info Gemini provided here about their safety hi temp system is good info to know the work they put into their design for this light.

    On to other things. It's been raining 4 days in a row here and I was able to run the Olympia and Xera using the prototype optic on high that are mounted on my helmet. I can attest the combo worked well in finding deep pot holes that are almost filled with water. I have this stretch of road where 18 wheelers travel to get to the freeway and potholes are never in the same place as the city patches them and new one are created just as fast. The pothole get fill with water and becomes hard to find but the combo was able to pick them out

  3. #153
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    De nada

    Speaking of pushing the performance edge, I'm very much looking forward to the new Xera spot optic. I trust you will post to the Xera thread when they are available for purchase. Any chance to create a narrower optic for Olympia?

  4. #154
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    Potential issue with my Olympia...

    Quick question to see if I might have an issue with my Olympia: I've run it 4 or 5 times thus far, in conjunction with a Xera on my helmet. It's been great; ran Medium the first few times, then High for a ride. My second-to-last ride, I turned it on to High, and started riding...it immediately started going back and forth from bright to dim to bright to dim, etc. I don't recall if it was in response to bumps in the trail, or a consistent cycling through the brightness settings. In any event, on my last ride, I fired it up, cycled from Low to Medium to High...and it was weirdly dim. I turned it off and started again...still dim...way dimmer than it had been, and way, way dimmer (on High) than my Xera (also on High).

    I didn't bump it at all, and it was fully charged each time.

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks!
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  5. #155
    Action LED Lights
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    Walt, Contact me and we'll get the problem resolved.
    Jim Harger
    Action LED Lights
    www.action-led-lights.com

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Action LED Lights View Post
    Walt, Contact me and we'll get the problem resolved.
    Will do, Jim...thanks!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  7. #157
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    Can someone with the 6 cell battery post a pic of the battery without the case and take some measurements of the battery pack itself? I want to see where I can build a mount for it and if one will fit in the open pouch in my pack.

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    Quick question to see if I might have an issue with my Olympia: I've run it 4 or 5 times thus far, in conjunction with a Xera on my helmet. It's been great; ran Medium the first few times, then High for a ride. My second-to-last ride, I turned it on to High, and started riding...it immediately started going back and forth from bright to dim to bright to dim, etc. I don't recall if it was in response to bumps in the trail, or a consistent cycling through the brightness settings. In any event, on my last ride, I fired it up, cycled from Low to Medium to High...and it was weirdly dim. I turned it off and started again...still dim...way dimmer than it had been, and way, way dimmer (on High) than my Xera (also on High).

    I didn't bump it at all, and it was fully charged each time.

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks!
    What was the frequency at which it was changing modes?
    pete

  9. #159
    Action LED Lights
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    72.5mm x 55.0mm x 37.1mm
    Jim Harger
    Action LED Lights
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  10. #160
    I am Walt
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    Quote Originally Posted by pahearn View Post
    What was the frequency at which it was changing modes?
    Every 5-10 seconds or so...

    The ride after that, it didn't do any changing, but all three modes were much "dimmer" than they should have been.

    I took it out again this morning to see if I was losing my mind, and it was the same as above...much "dimmer" than it should be...

    Jim from ActionLED is all over this for me!
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  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    Quick question to see if I might have an issue with my Olympia: I've run it 4 or 5 times thus far, in conjunction with a Xera on my helmet. It's been great; ran Medium the first few times, then High for a ride. My second-to-last ride, I turned it on to High, and started riding...it immediately started going back and forth from bright to dim to bright to dim, etc. I don't recall if it was in response to bumps in the trail, or a consistent cycling through the brightness settings. In any event, on my last ride, I fired it up, cycled from Low to Medium to High...and it was weirdly dim. I turned it off and started again...still dim...way dimmer than it had been, and way, way dimmer (on High) than my Xera (also on High).

    I didn't bump it at all, and it was fully charged each time.

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks!
    Question: Are both the Olympia and Xera on your helmet were power from one battery split with a Y-Cable? If so, was the battery a 4cell battery?

  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by colleen c View Post
    Question: Are both the Olympia and Xera on your helmet were power from one battery split with a Y-Cable? If so, was the battery a 4cell battery?
    Nope...Xera is powered by the 2-cell battery mounted on my helmet; Olympia by the 6-cell mounted on my stem. Both fully charged...
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  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by colleen c View Post
    Question: Are both the Olympia and Xera on your helmet were power from one battery split with a Y-Cable? If so, was the battery a 4cell battery?
    I tried to run 2x xeras from a single 4 cell and it went into "low battery mode" after about 45 minutes. Bummer even though there was lots o' charge left.
    "It looks flexy"

  14. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay View Post
    I tried to run 2x xeras from a single 4 cell and it went into "low battery mode" after about 45 minutes. Bummer even though there was lots o' charge left.
    Gclay, In your case that shouldn't be a problem. Your Xeras are sensing the two voltage drops ( instead of just one ). Unless the lights automatically go into a lower mode when this happens you should be fine. Just keep in mind your run time will be cut in two when running two lights from one battery.

  15. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    Nope...Xera is powered by the 2-cell battery mounted on my helmet; Olympia by the 6-cell mounted on my stem. Both fully charged...
    Oh ok. You got something else then. When I tried to use a Y-cable to both Olympia and Xera from one pack, the voltage sag caused premature shutdown and one or the other will blink most likely caused by the Y cable. It sound like something else. Not to worry, you'll in good hands with Gemini and Action Led.

  16. #166
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    I took a picture of the Olympia and Xera with Prototype 14 degree Optics combo. The Olympia is aimed at the bottle at 100ft and the Xera Optics is aimed between the two tree at 150 and 200ft.


    Control shot can be seen at this album

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    Gclay, In your case that shouldn't be a problem. Your Xeras are sensing the two voltage drops ( instead of just one ). Unless the lights automatically go into a lower mode when this happens you should be fine. Just keep in mind your run time will be cut in two when running two lights from one battery.
    Cat, well duh! Xera seems to have a higher than normal cutoff.
    "It looks flexy"

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by gticlay View Post
    Cat, well duh! Xera seems to have a higher than normal cutoff.
    Duh indeed!...That is strange though. The Xera is designed to run off of a 2-cell battery. If you are using a 4-cell you wouldn't expect to have a problem running two Xera's from one 4-cell battery. This is another reason I tend not to like the built in electronic sensing of bike lights. Sometimes it can cause problems if you're not using an "out of the box" set up or riding in cold weather.

  19. #169
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    Heat tolerance report - so far so good. I just go back from a 10 mile mountain ride with the termps. in the 90's and no overheating problems (the light was run on high the whole time). The lighthead was quite warm but not to the point where you could burn yourself on it (maybe if you left your hand on it on for awhile). I figured these temps. are warmer than most of you will ever see at night. I'll do an update when our night temps. get into the 100's.
    Has anyone else tried the Olympia as a helmet light? I planned on using it as a bar light and one of my 808e's on the helmet but after trying it on the helmt I think I'll just order another Olympia. Love the light ! Thanks Gemini.

  20. #170
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    For helmet use I find the throw a little too short if you're really hammering. If I could trade a little bit of flood for a little more throw I'd be really happy with it.
    pete

  21. #171
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    OK now these have been out for a while I'm almost ready to bite bullet whats the consensuses on this light, anyone having overheating issues or short run times I plan on using Geomans 6.0 batteries anyone pair one of these up to one of those and have any issues?
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
    For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking


  22. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman View Post
    OK now these have been out for a while I'm almost ready to bite bullet whats the consensuses on this light, anyone having overheating issues or short run times I plan on using Geomans 6.0 batteries anyone pair one of these up to one of those and have any issues?
    Mr. Mole ( post #169 ) had a good report. This threads been quiet for a while. I take that as a good sign.

  23. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman View Post
    OK now these have been out for a while I'm almost ready to bite bullet whats the consensuses on this light, anyone having overheating issues or short run times I plan on using Geomans 6.0 batteries anyone pair one of these up to one of those and have any issues?

    I hate to say this, but the Geoman pack does not perform too well with the Olympia. I have the 6.0 and the 4.4 Geoman pack from the recall and tested those on the olympia. I only got 1hr15m for the 4.4 pack on high and 1hr35min for the 6.0 pack. In both cases, the shutdown volt was 6.54v. During the first 1/2hour of runtime, the voltage drop from the 4.4 and 6.0 pack was at 7.1v and 7.23v. The red indicator light was already red at 45 minutes for the 4.4 pack and 1hour for the 6.0 pack.

    Dunno why the Geoman pack sag so much when the Gemini 4cell pack has a much better runtime listing for the Olympia. I don't think it is the cell quality in the geoman pack but the protection circuit might be making it sag more in voltage under that load.

  24. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by colleen c View Post
    I hate to say this, but the Geoman pack does not perform too well with the Olympia. I have the 6.0 and the 4.4 Geoman pack from the recall and tested those on the olympia. I only got 1hr15m for the 4.4 pack on high and 1hr35min for the 6.0 pack. In both cases, the shutdown volt was 6.54v. During the first 1/2hour of runtime, the voltage drop from the 4.4 and 6.0 pack was at 7.1v and 7.23v. The red indicator light was already red at 45 minutes for the 4.4 pack and 1hour for the 6.0 pack.

    Dunno why the Geoman pack sag so much when the Gemini 4cell pack has a much better runtime listing for the Olympia. I don't think it is the cell quality in the geoman pack but the protection circuit might be making it sag more in voltage under that load.

    Thanks Colleen that's good to know I will make sure to bring a extra battery for longer runtimes I bit the bullet last night its hard to turn down 25% off right now
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
    For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking


  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakuman View Post

    Thanks Colleen that's good to know I will make sure to bring a extra battery for longer runtimes I bit the bullet last night its hard to turn down 25% off right now
    One very important thing worth mentioning. At the 1hr35m mark for the 6 amphr battery, the Olympia went into a lower setting mode. If you allow the battery to recover for a little while, you can still go into the medium mode and use whatever reserve is left in the Geoman pack. I think the battery is not completly discharge, but just not useable at the high setting. This will give you some extra runtime in a lower output. You do have the programming intuitive option to adjust the brightness to get the maxium possible output while not overloading the pack after it has changed to the lower setting.

  26. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by colleen c View Post
    One very important thing worth mentioning. At the 1hr35m mark for the 6 amphr battery, the Olympia went into a lower setting mode. If you allow the battery to recover for a little while, you can still go into the medium mode and use whatever reserve is left in the Geoman pack. I think the battery is not completly discharge, but just not useable at the high setting. This will give you some extra runtime in a lower output. You do have the programming intuitive option to adjust the brightness to get the maxium possible output while not overloading the pack after it has changed to the lower setting.
    Thanks Colleen 80% of most of my local ridetime is climbing UP so for the first hr I usually run in medium and then crank it up to full for a short 20 min downhill. also when I'm in tight singletrack I usually have my lights at lower settings so not to wash everything out, so for me it sounds like the 6.0 should work fine
    I always type in bold cuz I'm blind as a bat
    For the Rich there is therapy!!!! for the rest of us we have Mountain Biking


  27. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by colleen c View Post
    One very important thing worth mentioning. At the 1hr35m mark for the 6 amphr battery, the Olympia went into a lower setting mode. If you allow the battery to recover for a little while, you can still go into the medium mode and use whatever reserve is left in the Geoman pack. I think the battery is not completly discharge, but just not useable at the high setting. This will give you some extra runtime in a lower output. You do have the programming intuitive option to adjust the brightness to get the maxium possible output while not overloading the pack after it has changed to the lower setting.
    The last three nights I've been doing rundown tests with the olympia lighthead and the three batteries I own (2- 6.0 Geoman and a 5.2ah bikeray). The two Geoman batteries mirrored your results, the bikeray did better at 2 hrs 10 min to flashing red (about what Gemini claims for their 4 cell battery). Something else I did on the Geoman test was to hookup a 808e to the same battery that was on the (powereed down, flashing red) olympia and it happily ran another 1 hr 40 min to flashing red. Looks to me like there's still about half the charge left, so if we can find the sweetspot (power setting) we should get considerable extra runtime. If not, It looks like I'll be looking for a more compatible battery. How do you like your Gemini 6 cell? Is it heavy?

  28. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    The last three nights I've been doing rundown tests with the olympia lighthead and the three batteries I own (2- 6.0 Geoman and a 5.2ah bikeray). The two Geoman batteries mirrored your results, the bikeray did better at 2 hrs 10 min to flashing red (about what Gemini claims for their 4 cell battery). Something else I did on the Geoman test was to hookup a 808e to the same battery that was on the (powereed down, flashing red) olympia and it happily ran another 1 hr 40 min to flashing red. Looks to me like there's still about half the charge left, so if we can find the sweetspot (power setting) we should get considerable extra runtime. If not, It looks like I'll be looking for a more compatible battery. How do you like your Gemini 6 cell? Is it heavy?
    The six cell is no problem when mounted on the bike frame. It is another story off the bike. There is no way that pack is going on my helmet. The extra 2cell does make it a challenge to carry in your clothing because of the shape, bulkiness, and weight. Also try to find any pocket to slip it in on days where I dress casual is a real challenge.

    The solution was simple. I bought one of those photographer vest with gazillion pocket and D-rings. Place the battery in one of the pocket and ran the extension to the mid ring and looping into another ring near the top of the vest and to the back of the helmet where the Olympia connector sits. Problem solved. not only can I carry the battery on my clothing and keep the cord out of the way, but now I can wear whatever clothing I want without worrying about the pack.

  29. #179
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    I did some additional runtime tests on the Olympia light paired with a Geoman 6.0ah battey. Here's what I got (full charge to flashing red).

    100% - 1hr 30 min
    80% - 2hr
    70% - 2hr 20 min
    60% - 4hr 10 min

    I stopped at 60% because the runtime went up so much I figured the voltage drain had dropped to the point where the light head no longer interpreted the battery was fully discharged. Recharging the battery took alot longer when I got to the 60% level also.

    Next interesting characteristic - When to power level got to the end of the blue cycle it started alternating between blue and red avery few seconds, then yellow to red, then just red till the light dimmed and it flashed red. Is this a power fluxuation and could this be potentially damaging to the light head? I'm interested in hearing any opinions.

    I think for now I'll use my BikeRay battery for this light and look into getting a 6 cell Gemini battery or maybe on OpenLight.

  30. #180
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    I found a Geomangear 4.5Ah battery in one of the lights I got from them so I thought I'd do a little testing to see how it behaved under load.



    It tested at full capacity with a 1.5 amp load (black line) which is about what a MJ-808E draws on high.
    At 2 amps (red line) it dropped off to about 4.3Ah. Not bad but other batteries I have tested stay about the same with loads under .5C
    At 2.25A (blue line) things really change. At about 3Ah the battery switches off. Something in the electronic protection say it's working too hard or getting a little hot.
    At 2.5A (green line) it's really pronounced, cutting off at 1.65Ah.
    At 2.7 and above it shuts off after only a few minutes.
    In any case this confirms what people are seeing when running the Olympia on high.
    These batteries are perhaps a bit over protected as 1C is usually considered a safe current draw. (4.5A)
    Jim Harger
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  31. #181
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    After using my original Olympia lighthead for a couple of months I relized how much I liked it as a helmet light so I ordered a second unit. I've posted several times on how happy I've been that the light did so well in 100+ degree nights but the second unit proved much more temp. sensitive. I sent the second unit back to be looked at and I wanted to relay the response as to what they found.

    "Gemini made an unanounced change to the Olympia with the older one having the wire exit more to the rear, and the new one on the side. The older one had LEDs and driver mounted on a carrier that was inserted into the housing from the front. Heat had to transfer from this carrier to the housing. The newer one is machined from the front and rear with a web between the 2 cavities. The LEDs are mounted directly to this web. Heat is transfered directly to the housing. There is actually a cap threaded onto the rear where the driver circuit is mounted. It is so well done you can't even see the seam. At the same time they adjusted down the threshold temp. for switching to low. The older one I tested went to 213 degees F before switching. I tested yours and another one like it and they switched @ 175 degrees F (IR thermometer on the side of the housing). So your lighthead is normal, the two are just different generations."

    It sounds like Gemini actually made the light more temperature efficient but decided to be more conservative with the threshold temp. I'm OK with this since 100% power is too much for me on the bars and set @ the 80% setting I've never had a problem. I never had any problems unless it was over 100 degrees but this is information that someone is a warmer climate might want to know before choosing a new light so I thought I would post it.
    Mole

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