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  1. #1
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    Gemini Duo replacement.

    I gave this light a go on my helmet last night, advanced technical riding. Did not care for it. An 85 degree night, Overheated to dim every 30 seconds when on high, a no go. It also did not give me the throw I want. I love the remote, but I just could not enjoy myself.

    I would like suggestions for a true 2000 lm helmet light that gives plenty of distance illumination with a wider spread.
    Michael
    old guy

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterp2 View Post
    I gave this light a go on my helmet last night, advanced technical riding. Did not care for it. An 85 degree night, Overheated to dim every 30 seconds when on high, a no go. It also did not give me the throw I want. I love the remote, but I just could not enjoy myself.

    I would like suggestions for a true 2000 lm helmet light that gives plenty of distance illumination with a wider spread.
    masterp2, The stock wide lenses on the Duo's suck. You need to switch it over to two of the spot optics and you will be amazed at the difference.

    I don't know what to say about your Duo over-heating. It should not be going into thermal step down that fast, especially if you are moving. You might contact the seller and ask about that. I've not had that issue with mine although yes, the lamp will heat up very fast if used on high. I should note though that I use mine with one of Vanc's Gopro adapters that also acts as an additional heat sink.

    Other lights you might be interesting in: The new Gloworm X2 with wireless remote. I'm not sure if they are in stock and selling yet but if not it won't be long. You would love the ITUO XP3 but supposedly they are out of business. Even if you find one for sale they are best on the helmet when using all spot optics. Not sure what comes standard on the XP3. When I bought mine I ordered with all spots. You might pick up an XP3 on Amazon but it will come with standard optics ( whatever they are ). ( Note, I tried to contact the Amazon seller but got no response ) Could be they are just selling off the old stock.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterp2 View Post
    I gave this light a go on my helmet last night, advanced technical riding. Did not care for it. An 85 degree night, Overheated to dim every 30 seconds when on high, a no go. It also did not give me the throw I want. I love the remote, but I just could not enjoy myself.

    I would like suggestions for a true 2000 lm helmet light that gives plenty of distance illumination with a wider spread.
    You're probably turned off by Gemini at this point but have you considered the Olympia? It's been a great helmet light for me over the last five years and the new version is supposedly 2100 lumens.

  4. #4
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    Idea! Sigma Buster 2000 HL

    Quote Originally Posted by masterp2 View Post
    I would like suggestions for a true 2000 lm helmet light that gives plenty of distance illumination with a wider spread.
    Sigma Buster 2000 HL "comes with ... an ultra-light remote with glow-in-the-dark buttons" :
    SIGMA SPORT
    SIGMA SPORT


  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterp2 View Post
    I gave this light a go on my helmet last night, advanced technical riding. Did not care for it. An 85 degree night, Overheated to dim every 30 seconds when on high, a no go. It also did not give me the throw I want. I love the remote, but I just could not enjoy myself.

    I would like suggestions for a true 2000 lm helmet light that gives plenty of distance illumination with a wider spread.
    Hey Masterp

    Just adding to what catmando eluded to. The new 2018 X2 has plenty of throw, a more subtle heat protection (and more mass to deal with the heat) and the remotes are going to really make this light a pleasure to use - ven more than it is now. It is also measured to about 1700 Lumens. It will be available in a couple of weeks max!

    If you wanted 2000+, have a look at the XS. Measured 2500, wired remote and only slighlty heavier than the X2. Throws more than the X2 with a nice wide beam.

    PM me if you want to know more.

    Cheers
    Gloworm Lights - 'Create Your Escape'
    High End LED Light Designer - New Zealand

  6. #6
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    My heatsink style GoPro adapter was originally made for the Duo (and Yinding clone) to address the exact problem the OP has with heat.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterp2 View Post
    I gave this light a go on my helmet last night, advanced technical riding. Did not care for it. An 85 degree night, Overheated to dim every 30 seconds when on high, a no go. It also did not give me the throw I want. I love the remote, but I just could not enjoy myself.

    I would like suggestions for a true 2000 lm helmet light that gives plenty of distance illumination with a wider spread.
    Definitely can relate to your problem as a fellow valley of the sun resident and Gemini Duo owner (older non remote model). Only safe way I found to make my Duo deal with hot nights was to set the programming to 80% max or sometimes down to 60% max on rides where the temp. never went below 100 degrees. The finned vancbiker mounts help not just with this light but pretty much any small light in the environment we ride in and generally drop running temps. approx. 10 degrees. "Cat's" suggestion to use more focuses optics will definitely improve the throw but cutting back power to deal with the heat (so your not thrust into darkness by activating the thermal protection) may still leave you with less light than you want. I'm also curious what bar light your using with the Duo. Assuming your newer version is one of the neutral white emitter equipped lights if you have a cool white equipped bar light it would definitely minimize your perception of the Duo's throw capability.

    Vancbiker mount on a Yinding (Duo clone)
    Gemini Duo replacement.-dsc00165x.jpg

    If you definitely want a new light then by all means go the Gloworm route. No matter what you do to your Duo it will not perform as well as a new X2 (I own a 2017 which is the same without the wireless option). Besides more power as the Gloworm guys said the X2 has more heatsink mass and while you'll probably still activate the thermal protection on the X2 on our warmest nights it gradually dims to a maintainable level for the light rather than just dumping you down to 20% power like the Gemini does. If you think you may always need 1500+ lumens best bet for desert riders would be to go with the Gloworm XS 2500 model.
    Mole

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    The new Gloworm X2 with wireless remote. I'm not sure if they are in stock and selling yet but if not it won't be long.
    I bought my X2/XS Combo FALL2014, since then most of my riding buddies have converted to the some variation of the X1/X2/XS combos, it's that impressive. I upgraded to the NW FALL2015, I like it a lot. I don't need anything but wireless remote sounds very attractive.

    www.action-led-lights.com/gloworm-lights

  9. #9
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    QUOTE=Cat

    Other lights you might be interesting in: The new Gloworm X2 with wireless remote. I'm not sure if they are in stock and selling yet but if not it won't be long. You would love the ITUO XP3 but supposedly they are out of business. Even if you find one for sale they are best on the helmet when using all spot optics. Not sure what comes standard on the XP3. When I bought mine I ordered with all spots. You might pick up an XP3 on Amazon but it will come with standard optics ( whatever they are ). ( Note, I tried to contact the Amazon seller but got no response ) Could be they are just selling off the old stock.
    My Ituo XP3 came with all spot optics which I believe was standard for all Ituo lights. Here's another source for old stock Ituo lights. Price is lower than the Amazon vendor so hopefully that will offset shipping costs from UK. I have no experience with or recommend this vendor, only know them as a remaining source for Ituo lights.
    Mole

    Front Lights | Bright Bike Lights

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOLE View Post
    My Ituo XP3 came with all spot optics which I believe was standard for all Ituo lights. Here's another source for old stock Ituo lights. Price is lower than the Amazon vendor so hopefully that will offset shipping costs from UK. I have no experience with or recommend this vendor, only know them as a remaining source for Ituo lights.
    Mole

    Front Lights | Bright Bike Lights
    MRM, thanks for that link. The vendor you mentioned has a note on his site saying the XP3 comes standard with all spots which is great for people who still want one for the helmet. They also mention they have some of the flood optics. I'm still interested in getting one of the standard flood optics just in case I want to move the XP3 to the bars once Gloworm comes out with the wireless remote version of the XS ( although not expected till next year ).

    @masterp2 ; If you're riding in desert heat on a regular basis you need to plan around that. All LED lamps get hot on their highest settings but the more emitters on the lamp the hotter they will get. MRMoles strategy of programming the lamp with less output seems a viable option. If you want more output you might try running two of the Gemini Duo's on the helmet using a "Y" cord adaptor and programming both lamps to run off of one remote. Then you could program each lamp to output say 1000 lumen max on the highest setting. This would give you 2K lumen off the helmet and that should be enough for anybody.

    I would program the lamps as follows ; 1K on high, 600 medium and 200 low. With two lamps programmed the same you have twice those values. The only remaining problem would be finding a way to mount two lamps to the helmet. At least the Duo's aren't heavy so I don't think weight would be a big issue.

    Anyway, no matter what you do you need to really watch how much output you are using if the lamps are over heating. Most people don't ride in those temps at night on a regular basis.

    I knew I had a photo of a Duo with all spots somewhere. I think this is the one. Pretty bright if you ask me.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Gemini Duo replacement.-duehispot.jpg  


  11. #11
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    Thank you for the responses, I will consider carefully.

    Does the Olympia have the same thermal challenges? I personally don't understand how a light this expensive gets to market when it won't work at its rated output. Which manufacturers have paid better attention to heat transfer requirements?
    Michael
    old guy

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterp2 View Post
    .....Does the Olympia have the same thermal challenges?
    In warm climates when used at high settings, yes. I make heatsink GoPro adapters for them too.

    Quote Originally Posted by masterp2 View Post
    I personally don't understand how a light this expensive gets to market when it won't work at its rated output. Which manufacturers have paid better attention to heat transfer requirements?
    It's more about the conditions you are riding in. Folks want small lights with lots of power. Companies build them and for most users they are fine as long as one is moving. If you were riding in 50 degree weather, I doubt your light would drop output as long as you were going ~5mph or better. If you want a light that does not step down when used in warm ambient temps, you are going to have to look for a bigger light with lower power.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  13. #13
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    I will take advice on manufacturers that have good thermal regulation. I won't be fixing the manufacturers oversights with add-ons in this case.
    Michael
    old guy

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterp2 View Post
    I will take advice on manufacturers that have good thermal regulation. I won't be fixing the manufacturers oversights with add-ons in this case.
    Hey Master

    As I am coming from a manufacturers point of view, you can take this as you will but others may want to verify what I'm saying.

    We paid carefull attention to our thermal regulation when designing our products. We wanted it to protect the electronics but also to not ditract from the users experience.

    The most simple way to govern temp control is to drop light level to a preprogrammed level or set level, until a preset temperature is reached. At that time the light would then automatically go back to the previous set level or in a very basic setup 'be available' to increase in brightness.

    As this was not a viable solution for us, we approched it from an equilibrium point of view. The outside of a housing shouldnt really be able to get to a point when it exceeeds about 70 deg C (at 80 deg C skin will burn within 1 sec of touching.) However, temperature sensors in a light are not genrally coupled to the outside of a light, they are usually on the mircochip, so some calibration needs to occur.

    Goworm lights monitor temperature constantly. For each light we set a temperature range for the light to monitor. A light will begin lowering output in 2% incremements every few seconds once it passes the lower limit of the temp range. A 2% change in output is barely noticeble when the light is stationary - let alone moving. The light will continue to lower the output until the trend toward the upper limit ceases and the temperature is no longer increasing. If temperature increase is too rapid and 2% drops are not helping the light will increase to 5% drops. However the light will not increae back to the previous set light level until the temperature has dropped below the lower limit of the temp range.

    Now at any time the user can lower the light level manually, however, the light will not allow output to exceed the level where temperature is once again increasing.

    Basically, the light will automatically establish an equilibrium between external cooling, temperature and power output. All this with out the rider really noticing it is happeneing.

    It terms of ability to handle the heat, we have found that our XS model (2500 lumens) does this best. It has the most surface area per LED of all our models and the configuration of the LEDs (Side by side - not grouped together) allows for better extraction of the heat.

    Any other questions, yell out!
    Gloworm Lights - 'Create Your Escape'
    High End LED Light Designer - New Zealand

  15. #15
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    My only issue with gloworm is the promise of a wireless remote for almost 2 years now. I would have bought it a year ago if that had happened.
    Michael
    old guy

  16. #16
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    The Wireless for X2 is almost out, 1 week......the X2 is 1700 lumens measured. Pretty much the same as the Olympia measured.

    Regards timelines, we are 2 individuals designing, manufacturing, marketing etc and so things sometimes take a little longer than expected.

    The XS will be available but prob not until the start of next year.

    Cheers
    Gloworm Lights - 'Create Your Escape'
    High End LED Light Designer - New Zealand

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterp2 View Post
    My only issue with gloworm is the promise of a wireless remote for almost 2 years now. I would have bought it a year ago if that had happened.
    Did you choose the Duo because it had a wireless remote? If that's the case I would definitely recommend the upgraded XS as the best "turn key" option and wait a few months till they are released.
    Mole

  18. #18
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    Here's another possible option. No information on this light yet and not available currently so have to wait on this one also.
    Mole

    New lights Coming

    Gemini Duo replacement.-6fea5d32e72490c32b84f697f6978824.jpg

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterp2 View Post
    Thank you for the responses, I will consider carefully.

    Does the Olympia have the same thermal challenges? I personally don't understand how a light this expensive gets to market when it won't work at its rated output. Which manufacturers have paid better attention to heat transfer requirements?
    Yes, Olympia has more thermal challenge than the Duo. For the Olympia to maintain constant output it needs to be kept moving at a decent speed. Otherwise it will step down the output to a much lower level. MP2, I highly suggest using the Vanc GoPro adapter for the Duo and then only use the highest mode when you absolutely need more light. I've never had my Duo step down but then again I don't use the high unless I'm at riding downhill or riding at speed. When I used the Olympia on high I've had it step down while climbing a rather slow section ( and it didn't take long for that to happen ). Now as soon as I started moving downhill I switched back to high and had no problems as I was moving at a decent clip. No doubt about it though, the Olympia heats up very fast.

    ( Please note; I was given the Duo and Olympia lights by Gemini to do an impartial review. The lamps were provided at no cost to myself. )

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