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  1. #201
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    Varider, these lights are ignored because of the quality control - you never know what you get - a nice lottery. But for most people they are as good as any other more expensive alternatives. The next problem by these clones is often a stupid UI and an absent battery indication. You need to consider + and - for you.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    I feel sorry for the guys who only buy their lights at the bike store. $100 buys you a 400 lumen light that last 1.5 hours. $100 sent to China buys you two complete sets of lights that are two to three times as bright and last for twice as long!
    It still makes sense to go to the LBS for the rider who values some support for problems or possible warranty claims. If one chooses the Chinese manufacturer/seller light I think they should go with the view that it's kind of a disposable item or be willing to repair it themselves. Some are not willing or capable of that, so local support (and hopefully better quality) suits them.

  3. #203
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    What is the theoretical lumen output?

  4. #204
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    Hi there,
    most of the answers were given by member Snakes, who joined my test ride yesterday.
    I will make better beam shots as soon as I get all of the lamps from my friends.

    As for Yinding...it has the best beam pattern but it is sligly less bright compared to 880 clone and ssx2. It has very nice transition from side to center. 880 clone has also nice beam pattern (light spot) and ssx2 has its spot a little too bright.
    MJ872 is not comparable. It is way too floody for high speed use and it needs to be combined with additional very bright lamp with beam pattern close to YD, 880 clone or ssx2 but with at least 1500 real lm, otherwise the throw is not noticable. Maybe a Mj872 and MJ880 would be great combo, but thats allready in the 300€ range.

    Yinding has great heat transfer, but it has too small mass to handle all the heat.
    It gets very hot (room temp, no airflow) even in low mode (0,44A at batteries),
    in high mode (1,65A at batteries) it gets too hot to hold in a matter of minutes. So be carefull and not to use high mode without airflow.
    Yesterday as I was cruising back home at cca 15km/h and 15°C I ran it on high and was checking the temperature. It was warm, so there is no overheating issue while riding, just remember to switch it to low mode when stopped. Did not checked if there is some overheat protection. I leave that to someone else
    The cable connector is the same as for Magicshine (MJ880 excluded) and makes rainproof connection.
    When battery low the green indicator turns red and it blinks. Strobe mode is hidden (press and hold for 3 sec), no memory mode.
    The thing is twice as small as MJ872 or MJ808, three times smaller as SSX2 and maybe 4 times smaller than 880 clone.

  5. #205
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    How are you people able to see which lights are which in the beamshot link? When I click on it, it opens a very small picture in the upper left corner of the page with no labels on any of the shots.

  6. #206
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    Does anyone have a side-by-side comparo of the real Duo vs. the clone?
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

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  7. #207
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    Yes, the warranty is the minus thing on cheap lights, but people can have their lights repaired by som electrician if they can't do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    It still makes sense to go to the LBS for the rider who values some support for problems or possible warranty claims. If one chooses the Chinese manufacturer/seller light I think they should go with the view that it's kind of a disposable item or be willing to repair it themselves. Some are not willing or capable of that, so local support (and hopefully better quality) suits them.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    In my opinion, the better the cheap lights get, the harder it is to justify the $200 minimum for the "good" lights. I feel sorry for the guys who only buy their lights at the bike store. $100 buys you a 400 lumen light that last 1.5 hours. $100 sent to China buys you two complete sets of lights that are two to three times as bright and last for twice as long!
    The LBS lights are much higher quality, have a warranty, can be brought back to the shop if they fail, and likely won't fail to start with. Its really "you get what you pay for" with this stuff so need to feel sorry for those that want to spend more to get higher quality just as they don't need to laugh at those that want to save some cash with cheaper options (like the LBS vs. Bikesdirect debate). I do agree though that when I upgraded my '90s lights last year, I had a hard time justifying the extra spend on Serfas light ($2-300) at my LBS vs. a complete 2 light Magicshine set up for $170 that has been bulletproof. I am still a bit nervous to drop $50 on one of these Duo clones when the real deal (light head only) is only $30 more and gets me some level of QC and support. I will say..these cheaper options are fascinating to me.
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

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  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khrystyan27 View Post
    What is the theoretical lumen output?
    Should be about 1000-1100 OTF lumens on high.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by steelhmr View Post
    How are you people able to see which lights are which in the beamshot link? When I click on it, it opens a very small picture in the upper left corner of the page with no labels on any of the shots.
    Do you mean picture from bhocewar?
    Try this link:
    http://shrani.si/f/14/Tw/4mVN1n3g/beamshots.jpg

    You can also right click on it and press "save as", to download the picture.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK96 View Post
    people can have their lights repaired by som electrician if they can't do it.
    Absolutely! My only experience with the China lights has been fixing a couple. That experience is what causes me to advise buyers of them to open them up and look for under-rated spec components, poor soldering, poor thermal paths, poor cable strain relief, and shoddy assembly in general. Once one has done that you'll have a reliable, good performing light.

  12. #212
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    Yeah, I realize that bike shop offer better service and the warranties probably are worth the extra cost for significant portion of the mountain biking community. You guys are obviously right about that.

    These lights are semi-disposable and the UI aren't that great. But I don't quite agree with "you get what you pay for" argument, except when it comes to batteries. These light use the same cree emitters as the big boy light manufactures. So does the warranty, better UI, better reliability, and better heat engineering justify a four fold increase in price? To me that's not real clear. Not to mention that the heart of the light, the led emitter probably goes for $5-$10 when purchased in bulk. So what does the extra $150 or $250 buy you? A $5 driver and a $30 housing?

    Last year's Gemini Duo light-head-only is $93 ($115 for the new one) from action led. You can get a solarstorm x2 lighthead for around $20-$25. So you could get three or four of those for one real Duo.

    Anyway, sorry about spamming the thread with my opinions, I don't know what got into me last night.

  13. #213
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    The Yindling does have thermal protection. I learned that last night. It was about 60deg and on high it would shut off when stopped. Didn't have it shut off while riding though.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    Yeah, I realize that bike shop offer better service and the warranties probably are worth the extra cost for significant portion of the mountain biking community. You guys are obviously right about that.

    These lights are semi-disposable and the UI aren't that great. But I don't quite agree with "you get what you pay for" argument, except when it comes to batteries. These light use the same cree emitters as the big boy light manufactures. So does the warranty, better UI, better reliability, and better heat engineering justify a four fold increase in price? To me that's not real clear. Not to mention that the heart of the light, the led emitter probably goes for $5-$10 when purchased in bulk. So what does the extra $150 or $250 buy you? A $5 driver and a $30 housing?

    Last year's Gemini Duo light-head-only is $93 ($115 for the new one) from action led. You can get a solarstorm x2 lighthead for around $20-$25. So you could get three or four of those for one real Duo.

    Anyway, sorry about spamming the thread with my opinions, I don't know what got into me last night.
    I agree with you in principle, but the disposable nature of some of these means you need to assign a cost to your time for the hassle of dealing with something that is a throw-away.
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  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKamp View Post
    The Yindling does have thermal protection. I learned that last night. It was about 60deg and on high it would shut off when stopped. Didn't have it shut off while riding though.
    Thanks for reporting that! Was it complete switching off, or reducing output to the minimum? How soon after stopping it occured? Is there any warning (flickering, blinking or the like) prior to the thermal shutdown? And finally, how quickly it cools down enough to be operational again?

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    These lights are semi-disposable and the UI aren't that great. But I don't quite agree with "you get what you pay for" argument, except when it comes to batteries. These light use the same cree emitters as the big boy light manufactures. So does the warranty, better UI, better reliability, and better heat engineering justify a four fold increase in price? To me that's not real clear. Not to mention that the heart of the light, the led emitter probably goes for $5-$10 when purchased in bulk. So what does the extra $150 or $250 buy you? A $5 driver and a $30 housing?
    You can buy cree leds for $2 per piece, but you can't really compare lights based on that.
    Two things to consider:
    1) R&D costs. Chinese lights manufacturers do not make their own lights, they copy euro/usa or even chinese brand name lights. $20 SSX2 lighthead is just a cheap copy of $70 original.
    2) Quality control. $20 lights are horrible, some of them are REALLY horrible. Yes, if you have some skills, equipment and free time - you can fix many of them, but still there is basically no quality control at all. And the batteries...infamous chinese batteries...

    And please don't compare SSX2 and gemini duo, duo has much more expensive cnc-machined case. Even its copy costs $40 for light head only, so the price difference is about $50 - and that will give you better quality (simple things like proper amount of thermal paste, better soldering, better wires - but still the difference is there) and 3 programmable brightness levels vs 3 pre-set levels on copy.

  17. #217
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    Re: Gemini Duo clones

    Quote Originally Posted by Kir View Post
    You can buy cree leds for $2 per piece, but you can't really compare lights based on that.
    Two things to consider:
    1) R&D costs. Chinese lights manufacturers do not make their own lights, they copy euro/usa or even chinese brand name lights. $20 SSX2 lighthead is just a cheap copy of $70 original.
    2) Quality control. $20 lights are horrible, some of them are REALLY horrible. Yes, if you have some skills, equipment and free time - you can fix many of them, but still there is basically no quality control at all. And the batteries...infamous chinese batteries...

    And please don't compare SSX2 and gemini duo, duo has much more expensive cnc-machined case. Even its copy costs $40 for light head only, so the price difference is about $50 - and that will give you better quality (simple things like proper amount of thermal paste, better soldering, better wires - but still the difference is there) and 3 programmable brightness levels vs 3 pre-set levels on copy.
    Exactly.

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  18. #218
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    Of course you get better quality if you spend twice as much money. I'm not trying to argue that you shouldn't buy a real Gemini or Glowworm or whatever. I think they are all great, buy them all. Your money won't be wasted.

    I'm saying that you don't have to in order to get a very bright light. That's what the Solarstorm X2, Duo clone and MJ880 clone have brought to the table. Lots of light for less than $40 (light head only). Look at the picture bhocewar posted, these things put out a ton of light. The days of having to buy $200 lights in order to go mountain biking are over.

    Why shouldn't I compare these lights. At the end of the day all of these lights are just housings for two leds. If the cheap ones run the same amount of current through them as the expensive lights, they are going to put out roughly the same amount light (minus losses for optics). We know that's true because they use the same leds. If it doesn't break for a few months or a year, then what have you lost by buying them. If it does break then go buy the real stuff or try to repair it. By that time there will a newer and better emitter out anyway.

    Am I the only guy on here who thinks this way?

  19. #219
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    Gemini Duo clones

    Quote Originally Posted by -Archie- View Post
    Thanks for reporting that! Was it complete switching off, or reducing output to the minimum? How soon after stopping it occured? Is there any warning (flickering, blinking or the like) prior to the thermal shutdown? And finally, how quickly it cools down enough to be operational again?
    Just shut off, no warning. It would have been nice I it would have just dimmed down a bit. Would turn back on almost immediately but would turn off again pretty quickly if it didn't get any airflow.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKamp View Post
    Just shut off, no warning. It would have been nice I it would have just dimmed down a bit. Would turn back on almost immediately but would turn off again pretty quickly if it didn't get any airflow.
    Be nice if it just dimmed down.

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    We know that's true because they use the same leds.
    I strongly suspect that the LEDs are not the same. Yes, they'll be a CREE XML or XML2 but I am pretty sure the cheapo lights are cutting a small corner on the bin.

    Each batch of emitters yields only a portion that perform above average. The bulk of the batch are average or below. CREE charge a slightly higher price for the better performers than the average ones. The price difference between premium and average bins has been narrowing in the last couple years. In the early days of the XPG the premium bins were nearly $2 higher than average ones and in short supply. I very much believe that a clone builder would select a T3 bin over a T6 even if it saved just $.25 per LED. It is true that the output difference would small and possibly only noticeable in a side by side comparison. CREE do not mark bin codes on the LEDs so there is no visual way to know what bin you are getting.

    Cheap lights are great so long as one knows it may or may not last, as long as they have at least 2 systems in use.

  22. #222
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    Well, i just order one of these:

    http://www.aliexpress.com/item/YINDI...317378653.html

    .. but now am kind of kicking myself for not ordering one of these:

    http://www.aliexpress.com/item/T3-Cr...091100081.html

    .. looks like an XM-L2 U2 which some have been waaaiiiting for ??

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsyCro View Post
    Well, i just order one of these:

    http://www.aliexpress.com/item/YINDI...317378653.html

    .. but now am kind of kicking myself for not ordering one of these:

    http://www.aliexpress.com/item/T3-Cr...091100081.html

    .. looks like an XM-L2 U2 which some have been waaaiiiting for ??
    They both use the xm-l u2. Don't let the "XML 2*U2" fool you, that means that there are two xm-l emitters. They like being tricky like that.

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    They both use the xm-l u2. Don't let the "XML 2*U2" fool you, that means that there are two xm-l emitters. They like being tricky like that.
    Hah, yeah i just came to that conclusion myself, came back here to change my post.. buzt you beat me to it!

    Can't wait for the light in any case. With my Mini Cree on the helmet for spot and this on the bars i'm hoping i'll be set for giving our DH trail a shot!

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    I strongly suspect that the LEDs are not the same. Yes, they'll be a CREE XML or XML2 but I am pretty sure the cheapo lights are cutting a small corner on the bin.

    Each batch of emitters yields only a portion that perform above average. The bulk of the batch are average or below. CREE charge a slightly higher price for the better performers than the average ones. The price difference between premium and average bins has been narrowing in the last couple years. In the early days of the XPG the premium bins were nearly $2 higher than average ones and in short supply. I very much believe that a clone builder would select a T3 bin over a T6 even if it saved just $.25 per LED. It is true that the output difference would small and possibly only noticeable in a side by side comparison. CREE do not mark bin codes on the LEDs so there is no visual way to know what bin you are getting.

    Cheap lights are great so long as one knows it may or may not last, as long as they have at least 2 systems in use.
    Actually exactly half of the emitters are above average and only half are below, not the bulk of the batch.

  26. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKamp View Post
    The Yindling does have thermal protection. I learned that last night. It was about 60deg and on high it would shut off when stopped. Didn't have it shut off while riding though.
    You bring up a really good point. I've been on plenty of group rides where people just leave their lights running (on high) while we're taking a break or re-grouping, and sometimes it can be kind of a long time.
    I just shake my head, because I know that not only are they running their batteries down, but are risking burning up their lights. I don't think many people realize how hot these lights get (and I mean ALL bike lights), when there is no air moving over them, and it's early Fall so it's still fairly warm out.
    Not to mention they're blinding everyone when talking to them.

    I always shut my lights off, or at least down to low when standing around.

  27. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightnut View Post
    Not to mention they're blinding everyone when talking to them.
    Hate that the most!

  28. #228
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    I asked this seller about color bin: it's 1A.

    I'd say it's a real tragedy but hey, warmer bins are readily available.

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKamp View Post
    Just shut off, no warning. It would have been nice I it would have just dimmed down a bit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gharddog03 View Post
    Be nice if it just dimmed down.
    Sure. But here's interesting part: one user of that light on Russian bike forum has reported that during thermal test, it switched itself to the lower mode first, then after some more time (no cooling was provided) shut off completely.

    It seems that either these lights might have different circuitry/firmware, or some of them aren't function as intended...

  30. #230
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    Can you post a link to that russian bike forum?

  31. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khrystyan27 View Post
    Can you post a link to that russian bike forum?
    Here is a direct link to the message I've mentioned above:
    http://forum.velomania.ru/showthread...=1#post3488650

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaVolt View Post
    I asked this seller about color bin: it's 1A.
    As usual, the cheapest led available. Probably T6 or lower brightness bin too since nobody will verify that. Price chart from fasttech for example:
    Gemini Duo clones-ansiwhitexml_chart_fasttech.jpg

    I'm saying that you don't have to in order to get a very bright light. That's what the Solarstorm X2, Duo clone and MJ880 clone have brought to the table. Lots of light for less than $40 (light head only). Look at the picture bhocewar posted, these things put out a ton of light.
    You're comparing only the brightness? Thats a wrong way imo.
    You also need to get a good light's body (ss2x is not the best, duo clone is much smaller and harder to manufacture), good battery (there are NO good batteries in $50 chinese lights, plain and simple) and good UI (programmable brightness is a very nice thing to have).

    At the end of the day all of these lights are just housings for two leds. If the cheap ones run the same amount of current through them as the expensive lights, they are going to put out roughly the same amount light (minus losses for optics).
    Well...you can do this:
    10xMC-E 5C 4000K HyperBoost 6000+lumen bike light with high and low beam for road ...
    Very very cheap, insane brightness. But would you call that a proper bicycle light?

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    The LBS lights are much higher quality, have a warranty, can be brought back to the shop if they fail, and likely won't fail to start with. Its really "you get what you pay for" with this stuff so need to feel sorry for those that want to spend more to get higher quality just as they don't need to laugh at those that want to save some cash with cheaper options (like the LBS vs. Bikesdirect debate). I do agree though that when I upgraded my '90s lights last year, I had a hard time justifying the extra spend on Serfas light ($2-300) at my LBS vs. a complete 2 light Magicshine set up for $170 that has been bulletproof. I am still a bit nervous to drop $50 on one of these Duo clones when the real deal (light head only) is only $30 more and gets me some level of QC and support. I will say..these cheaper options are fascinating to me.
    True. I've been laughing all the way to the bank with 2 magic shine lights on original batteries for 4-5 years now riding 30+ night rides (or more) a season.

    So the "get what you pay for" doesn't apply in my case. YMMV.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PsyCro View Post
    .. but now am kind of kicking myself for not ordering one of these:

    http://www.aliexpress.com/item/T3-Cr...091100081.html
    Don't kick yourself just yet. I was just looking at this light and was ready to order, hell it's like $8 less then the one I bought from FastTech, BUT then I saw this:

    "The customs is strict with the package with battery currently ,so send with no battery now"

  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSJ1973 View Post
    True. I've been laughing all the way to the bank with 2 magic shine lights on original batteries for 4-5 years now riding 30+ night rides (or more) a season.

    So the "get what you pay for" doesn't apply in my case. YMMV.
    A lot of the LBS stuff looks like DX stuff. Magicshine clones for 200$ each? No thanks.

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    I was a bit worried about the battery issue as fightnut mentioned, but I recived my light today with battery from fast tech which took 5 weeks, when I opened the box I couldn't believe how small the light head is! It just spins me out!

    Now after reading through previous threads can this light be run 2p1s (2 18650 cells.) 18650 battery pack or is there a issue with the light drawing to many amps for 2 cells?

  37. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSJ1973 View Post
    True. I've been laughing all the way to the bank with 2 magic shine lights on original batteries for 4-5 years now riding 30+ night rides (or more) a season.

    So the "get what you pay for" doesn't apply in my case. YMMV.
    There are 3 tiers of lights (to me): Chinese clones (DX, etc.), "real" Chinese (Magicshine), and LBS brands. "You get what you pay for" applies to the first only and to a lesser degree the second where we are. When are you paying $30 for a light/battery, you can't honestly think this will be a long-service item in your gear closet. With that being said, seems like many get good use out of them, especially those with some electronics skills that can fix/upgrade them. My charger on my Magicshine recently went kaput; v. chincy unit...again...you get what you pay for. The question really comes down to is my time/hassle dealing with an issue like this worth the extra $$$ to get LBS lights that themselves, can have issues as well.
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  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trd620 View Post
    Now after reading through previous threads can this light be run 2p1s (2 18650 cells.) 18650 battery pack or is there a issue with the light drawing to many amps for 2 cells?
    It can run on 2 cells but they have to be in 2S1P configuration (7.4v voltage).
    Iirc it draws about 1.6A on high, so 2600mAh cells will give you ~1.6 hours runtime on high.

  39. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by TiGeo View Post
    There are 3 tiers of lights (to me): Chinese clones (DX, etc.), "real" Chinese (Magicshine), and LBS brands. "You get what you pay for" applies to the first only and to a lesser degree the second where we are. When are you paying $30 for a light/battery, you can't honestly think this will be a long-service item in your gear closet. With that being said, seems like many get good use out of them, especially those with some electronics skills that can fix/upgrade them. My charger on my Magicshine recently went kaput; v. chincy unit...again...you get what you pay for. The question really comes down to is my time/hassle dealing with an issue like this worth the extra $$$ to get LBS lights that themselves, can have issues as well.
    I have to wonder why you would want to spend money at the LBS for lights when the technology is evolving so quickly?

    Think back to 3-4 years ago how much a light with the output of the original MagicShine would cost at a LBS? Some loyal LBS customer went out to their support their store and dropped north of $400 or $500 dollars for a light set. Another guy picked up a couple MS lights.

    Now a few years, the LBS guy has maybe a Seca 700, hopefully not something lower. The MS light guy can throw away his lights, pick up a newer more powerful light and still have spent less money.

    Imagine where lights will be at in 2-3 years?

    Ultimately, to each his own.
    You cannot go against nature, because when you do, its part of nature too.

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kir View Post
    Iirc it draws about 1.6A on high, so 2600mAh cells will give you ~1.6 hours runtime on high.
    Hey Kir, did you measure what it draws on mid?

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Archie- View Post
    Sure. But here's interesting part: one user of that light on Russian bike forum has reported that during thermal test, it switched itself to the lower mode first, then after some more time (no cooling was provided) shut off completely.

    It seems that either these lights might have different circuitry/firmware, or some of them aren't function as intended...

    Wouldn't the he authentic DUO also have heat dissipation issues?

  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by MegaVolt View Post
    Hey Kir, did you measure what it draws on mid?
    Around 0,85A that is on the battery

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    Thanks a ton! So the claimed specs (50%) are pretty much spot on!
    I'm thinking about getting a lighter lipo battery to put on the helmet and use it as a secondary light - trying to figure out the absolute minimum capacity for this to keep the weight to the minimum.

  44. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightnut View Post
    Don't kick yourself just yet. I was just looking at this light and was ready to order, hell it's like $8 less then the one I bought from FastTech, BUT then I saw this:

    "The customs is strict with the package with battery currently ,so send with no battery now"
    Heck i just realized that my order didn't even go through. Seems they need copies of personal documents for payment verification. And this for just a normal Visa payment.. poor, and/or shoddy and/or shady!

    Looks like i need to find another online shop for this light.

  45. #245
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    I ride a lot after work and sometimes get caught out in the dark. After reading this thread, I am really interested in this Gemini Duo clone. I am between this and the Jexree Owl. I would love to hear Kir's (or anyone's) take on that light and the differences. The Gemini clone sounds like a great backup due to its size. Forgive my newbness on the forums. If I'm in the wrong spot, please point me to a review on the Owl, which seems hard to find.

  46. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kir View Post
    Should be about 1000-1100 OTF lumens on high.
    Well, that's a shame in my opinion.

    ~500 lumens/LED(a powerful LED like XM-L), is a low number.

  47. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khrystyan27 View Post
    Well, that's a shame in my opinion.

    ~500 lumens/LED(a powerful LED like XM-L), is a low number.
    Not really if we're talking about real OTF lumens and not about overrated manufacturer's specifications.
    For example Fenix BT20 drives LED at 3A in high mode and that gives about 770 OTF lumens.
    All dual xml lights will give 500-600 lumens per led, you can read and compare:
    Review: Lupine Piko 4 | Mountain Bike Review
    Gloworm X2 ? 2013 Mtbr Lights Shootout | Mountain Bike Review

    If you really need more output you can replace leds with XML2 and increase current in driver, but keep these things in mind:
    1) Human eye sensivity to light is non-linear, you won't notice much difference between lets say 600 and 800 lumens compared to 200 vs 400.

    On the other hand led's efficiency drops at higher current:
    http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/a...nsmeasured.jpg
    2) Increased light output will create much more heat and will discharge the battery *much* faster. Heat is especially important for such small lights.

    So its simply not worth it to drive the leds to the max in many cases, including these gemini clones.

    I am between this and the Jexree Owl. I would love to hear Kir's (or anyone's) take on that light and the differences. The Gemini clone sounds like a great backup due to its size. Forgive my newbness on the forums. If I'm in the wrong spot, please point me to a review on the Owl, which seems hard to find.
    There are no reviews of the Owl yet, but its pretty simular to SSX2 so you can look at its beamshots vs lupine/gloworm beamshots from the above links.
    I haven't used these lights myself so I can only do this (click for full res):


    And post my thoughts on them based on short testing in my room.

    Gemini Duo clone - very small, very lightweight, should be excellent as backup light or helmet light (not the best beam for helmet use though but very, very light). Probably about ~1000 lumens output, 1.6A current draw from battery.
    Beam profile - TIR lens, almost no sidespill, very wide and floody hotspot. Not suitable to high-speed cycling on road, it just doesn't have enough throw. But should be great in forest at low speeds or as a secondary light for close-range illumination.

    Jexree Owl - bigger, heavier, can be used as your main light. Build quality is good, battery is great (4400mAh compared to random 2000-4000mAh that you will get with gemini clone). Much higher current draw, about 2.3-2.5A, XML2 leds = much brighter output, probably about 1300-1400lumens or so. Middle mode is 0.6A and low is 0.2A which is roughly the same as gemini clone, but high is higher.
    Beam profile - smooth reflector, usual small and bright hotspot with wide and dim sidespill. Suitable for roads, gives more throw. Probably less useful in forest but should be good enough.

  48. #248
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    Well I want to buy a Gemini Duo clone and a Jexree Own.

    Can you post some nightshots with Gemini Duo clone?

  49. #249
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    What do you make of this: Latest Unique Design Cree XML 2*U2 Bike Light headlight/lamp Front Light 2300 LM 4 mode -in Bicycle Light from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com ?

    Very clearly states use of XM-L2 emitters...

    I accidently pressed the "buy now" button and will compare to my Fasttech one once I get it

    /Johan

  50. #250
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    It clearly states XML emiiters 2 x U2 ;-)

  51. #251
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    Of course you're right. I clearly need to brush up my reading skills

    Anyhow, it was the only place I could find it without battery so I'm happy.

    /Johan

  52. #252
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    Are these things all the same and coming from the same place? Are they clones of clones of clones? They all say "Yindling" and are XML U2s. This says it doesn't come with the battery but is ~$7 less than the one on Fasttech or DX.
    Geologist by trade...bicycle mechanic (former) by the grace of God!

    2012 Specialized Stumpy EVO 29 HT

  53. #253
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    I think the cloned body is just only one, with the outside a bit reworked and the inner electronics can be absolute wilderness (that can be a clone of clone of clone of ...) :-)

  54. #254
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    Christmas comes early...


  55. #255
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    do you collect them? :-D

  56. #256
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    Lights weigh-in






  57. #257
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    Nice.

    Looking forward to whatever comes after weigh-in

    /Johan

  58. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhocewar View Post
    Christmas comes early...



  59. #259
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    bhocewar......you might want to do your own thread so your info doesn't get buried in this one Titled "Gemini Duo clone"

  60. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by the mayor View Post
    bhocewar......you might want to do your own thread so your info doesn't get buried in this one Titled "Gemini Duo clone"
    I started a thread called "2013 Budget Light Shootout" to try and get info like this in one place. That would be a great place to post it. Budget lights reviews are often scattered

  61. #261
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    So we shall define some measurement rules there (photos, current, ...)

  62. #262
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    Ok I moved my test results here:

    2013 Budget Light Shootout

  63. #263
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  64. #264
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    I had a weird problem with my Duo clone last night.

    Indicator went from green to red, and within seconds, the light shut off.

    I assumed battery was dead (although it had been fully charged, and we were only about 1hr 40m into the ride).

    I swapped to a spare battery, light turned right on and I finished the ride.

    Today I thought, "gee seems like a fresh battery should have lasted longer then it did", so I plugged it back into the stock battery, set it in front of a fan, turned it on high, and it ran for a little over an hour!!

    So then I thought maybe it overheated last night and shut itself off. It was kind of warm (low 50's), and it did happen during a climb, where maybe it wasn't getting optimal air moving over it.
    But if that were the case, I wouldn't think it would turn right back on when I swapped to another battery. Or would it?

    What do you guys think?

  65. #265
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    You could have tried just unplugging and replugging the first battery into the light. Maybe when you unplugged the battery it reset the circuit. Or maybe it's the quality of the original battery? The voltage of the cells dropped because of the high current, causing the light to think it was almost dead? I don't know.

    This sudden turn-off is not a good situation.

  66. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    Maybe when you unplugged the battery it reset the circuit. Or maybe it's the quality of the original battery? The voltage of the cells dropped because of the high current, causing the light to think it was almost dead.

    This sudden turn-off is not a good situation.
    X2. I've noticed this happening with my Olympia's running off a 4 cell in high. But mine just drops down to lower setting. I would suggest get quality packs and see what it does. My gemini duos run fine on high with a 4 cell unless the overheat protection kicks in and drops down to a lower setting.

  67. #267
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    Yinding goes from green to red to blinking red.
    It might be that the overheat protection kicked in and turned it off.
    If the body was too hot to hold it in your hands for a few seconds, then it overheated.
    As I mentioned before. Dont run it on high when not moving at least 10km/h. That goes for all lamps including branded.

  68. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    You could have tried just unplugging and replugging the first battery into the light. Maybe when you unplugged the battery it reset the circuit. Or maybe it's the quality of the original battery? The voltage of the cells dropped because of the high current, causing the light to think it was almost dead? I don't know.

    This sudden turn-off is not a good situation.
    Could be onto something there. I noticed a quirk with mine, if you quickly plug battery into the light -- even if the battery is freshly charged -- it will blink red. But if you slowly plug in the battery, the switch illuminates green.

  69. #269
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    I tested original Yinding battery and its capacity is around 3500mAh. Green indicator light goes red at around 6,2V. Charger charges battery pack to 8,22V and when charging completly empty batteries it overheats and alternating on/off (red/green). I drilled some holes to add some cooling and we will see if it gets better.

  70. #270
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    Anyone purchased a yinding recently? If so from where?
    I ordered from fasttech, although the site states its in stock. My order is showing as restocking as of mid last week!
    Dx and wallbuys appear to be out of stock of this in black.

    I feel I may have missed out on this little gem.
    Last edited by steviemidnight; 11-11-2013 at 08:52 AM.

  71. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by steviemidnight View Post
    Anyone purchased a yinding recently? If so from where?
    I ordered from fasttech, although the site states its in stock. My order is showing as restocking as of mid last week!
    Dx and wallbuys appear to be out of stock of this in black.

    I feel I may have missed out on this little gem.
    I ordered one from Fasttech on Friday. Just checked my order and it shows shipping tomorrow, so we will see. I will update tomorrow

  72. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJHS View Post
    I ordered one from Fasttech on Friday. Just checked my order and it shows shipping tomorrow, so we will see. I will update tomorrow
    I placed my order two weeks ago and it has said restocking the entire time.

  73. #273
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    Fasttech seem to be having issues with shipping as well. Hongkong Post - Notices - Delay In Outbound Air Mail Services .

    I recently ordered without battery (to replace a drowned MJ872 light head) from this alibaba seller Latest Unique Design Cree XML 2*U2 Bike Light headlight/lamp Front Light 2300 LM 4 mode -in Bicycle Light from Sports & Entertainment on Aliexpress.com
    They shipped in a couple of days but I'm still waiting delivery.

    /Johan

  74. #274
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    Thanks fir the info. Hmmm well least I'm not alone. I raised a case at the weekend but have had no response from them. I'll update this thread if it ships or I get a response.

  75. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhocewar View Post
    I tested original Yinding battery and its capacity is around 3500mAh. Green indicator light goes red at around 6,2V. Charger charges battery pack to 8,22V and when charging completly empty batteries it overheats and alternating on/off (red/green). I drilled some holes to add some cooling and we will see if it gets better.
    Just throw that thing in the trash and buy one from action led.

  76. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by steviemidnight View Post
    I'll update this thread if it ships or I get a response.
    I ordered a light from Kaidomain a bit ago and they shipped the battery and the light separately, because of the delay noted above for battery shipping. The fasttech restocking issue is, I believe, separate. I had a duo clone on order with them for two weeks and it continued to show 'restocking' the whole time. I eventually cancelled the order after they (seemed to) ignore my questions. They are usually better at responding, so my guess is that particular light is on the indefinite wait list ...

  77. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by steviemidnight View Post
    Thanks fir the info. Hmmm well least I'm not alone. I raised a case at the weekend but have had no response from them. I'll update this thread if it ships or I get a response.
    I noticed you're not in the states, the banner up top said "Hong Kong Post Alert: FastTech was told of a 15-day delay at Hong Kong Post for non-US shipping address. FastTech offers at least 3 alternative shipping carriers and we are starting to re-route non-US orders away from Hong Kong Post."

    I chose DHL as my shipping option here in the US. So that's what is probably holding it up

  78. #278
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    Hmm. I ordered 2 from FastTech the 8th - blue light shows "Scheduled Ship Date: 11/11/2013", red light shows "Ready to ship".
    This isn't a "you're doing it wrong" topic.

    WSS/OSS: Open Source Sealant

  79. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by wadester View Post
    Hmm. I ordered 2 from FastTech the 8th - blue light shows "Scheduled Ship Date: 11/11/2013", red light shows "Ready to ship".
    When I ordered mine, it showed a scheduled ship date for 2-3 days. When that date came, it changed to "restocking" and remained there until I cancelled it.

  80. #280
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    Yeah mine has been in the mail for three weeks now.

  81. #281
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    There's some black ones for sale on Fleabay, but they're $75 and ship from China.

    For that kind of money you'd be better off buying a real Gemini Duo lighthead (the old 2013 model) from Action LED, $83.70 with closeout13 coupon (if you don't need the battery, charger, and accessories).

  82. #282
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    Well fasttech responded. It's out of stock as expected and they have been unable to restock.

    Actual response:
    "We apologize that the item you purchased SKU 1443727 is currently out of stock due to the production problem, we have been looking for alternative sources of supply these days, but we could not find it from the markets or manufacturers.

    Sorry for causing you such an inconvenience, the suppliers is not able to provide the ETA of the stock, would you mind have an exchange? Or if you prefer to have a refund for this item, please let me know and I will arrange for you right away."

  83. #283
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    I received a similar message from Fasttech for my duo clone. It sat in Hong Kong for 2 weeks before they just sent me a refund. I like the light would like to find one.

  84. #284
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    In another, german forum, someone just posted a message he got from Wallbuys:

    hello xxxx

    good news is coming, the yinding factory just tell me that they will finish the black bike lamp soon, and if customers buy it ,wallbuys can ship it in 19th November , greeting !!
    if members want to buy the black one, it is time to buy now !!
    $46.46 Yinding 2 x CREE XM-L U2 1800LM 4-Mode White LED Bike Light / Headlamp-Black(4x18650)

    Without any guarantees or relationships to Wallbuys (other than having bought and received two of them myself from there, ordered Oct 22nd, delivered today), just bridging the message...

  85. #285
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    Thanks it's worth a punt, else I was planning on buying it in red and spraying it

  86. #286
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    I had similar issues w/Fastech showing my light as "in processing" at the beginning of October when others started showing it as out of stock. I cancelled the order and bought through DX. Recieved it in about 2 weeks. They're still showing it as available to ship:
    YINDING YD-2XU2 2 x CREE XM-L U2 1200lm 4-Mode White Bicycle Light / Headlamp - Red (4 x 18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

    At the time I bought the above (red), both the black and blue were shown as sold out. The blue is now showing stock:
    YINDING YD-2XU2 2 x CREE XM-L U2 1200lm 4-Mode White Bicycle Headlamp - Blue (4 x 18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

    ....while the black is still listed as sold out:
    YINDING YD-2XU2 2 x Cree XM-L U2 1200lm 4-Mode White Bicycle Light / Headlamp - Black (4 x 18650) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

  87. #287
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    If you hate blue or red...you can make them silver by dipping stripped housing (doing some desoldering) into a NaOH 25-30% water solution (oven cleaners, drain uncloggers, Mr Muscle) for 5-10minutes and give it a good after wash with water. Be carefull and work with gloves.
    You can also anodise them back to black if you want, but this process is a bit harder to do, so best to find a local company that anodises stuff. It shouldnt be expensive.

  88. #288
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    We've been a bit busy lately but I found time today to catch up with the forum and thought I'd put in a few observations here.
    The rated LED life span is not when they burn out (stop working). Rather it's when their output degrades to 70% of the original output. The hotter they get the faster they degrade.
    Gemini Duo's and Gloworm X2's both have the led's mounted directly to the housing so there is a fast and efficient path for the heat to move away from the led and into the air.
    From what I see in the pictures of this clone, the led is mounted to a subassembly which is then mounted to the housing and insulated from it by a gasket. If the housing is not getting too hot that's a bad sign that the heat is being held in the subassembly.

    There was speculation that the housing of these clones was same as the Duo. Obviously not so.

    There are counterfeit CREE led's being sold in China. Even if these lights use the real thing they are almost certainly the cheaper low bins. Someone mentioned "why does it matter. If there getting the same current there putting out the same light" Certainly not true. They convert less of that current to light and more to heat.

    At $42 plus some time these may look like a bargain but I'd wager that 3 years down the road it will look a little different. I've had very few customers with an issue after 2-3 years with their Gemini light.
    Jim Harger
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    www.action-led-lights.com

  89. #289
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    I don't think anyone here doubts a Gemini is a better product. It's just a question of what will determine the light's lifespan: product failure or obsolescence due to newer technology. If I can get 2 years of use out of this thing for $50 and then buy the next generation for another $50? That works for me. My hangup on these products is that I treat it like a troubled friend from the past: Fun to hang out with, but I don't tell my wife about it, don't let my kids near it, don't recommend it to friends and it sleeps(charges) outside.

  90. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Action LED Lights View Post
    Gemini Duo's and Gloworm X2's both have the led's mounted directly to the housing so there is a fast and efficient path for the heat to move away from the led and into the air.
    From what I see in the pictures of this clone, the led is mounted to a subassembly which is then mounted to the housing and insulated from it by a gasket.
    Are you sure? On this picture, it's clear that LED base is mounted directly to the light case's surface:


    At $42 plus some time these may look like a bargain but I'd wager that 3 years down the road it will look a little different. I've had very few customers with an issue after 2-3 years with their Gemini light.
    Maybe, but IMHO it's highly unlikely to expect someone not to upgrade the light for three years...

  91. #291
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    These lights are more likely to be convenient for DIY people that have some electrical skills/knowledge. After 2-3 years we throw away those emitters and get more efficient replacement. But here in this duo clone it might be a great fun to replace them :-D

  92. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK96 View Post
    But here in this duo clone it might be a great fun to replace them :-D
    Why? I see no obstacles to put there new LEDs on two separate round bases...

  93. #293
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    I mean that light is a bit small. But yes, you can replace them with 2 copper based.

  94. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Archie- View Post
    Are you sure? On this picture, it's clear that LED base is mounted directly to the light case's surface
    Your right. The picture I was looking at was the rear of the light.
    Jim Harger
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    Quote Originally Posted by Action LED Lights View Post
    There are counterfeit CREE led's being sold in China. Even if these lights use the real thing they are almost certainly the cheaper low bins. Someone mentioned "why does it matter. If there getting the same current there putting out the same light" Certainly not true. They convert less of that current to light and more to heat.
    IF they use different bins or IF they use counterfeit led's.

    I'm not convinced that the three main cheap dual emitter lights actually use counterfeit led or subpar leds. They seem pretty good to me.

    A year from now there will be something brighter and all the current stuff will be obsolete anyway. The cheap light may or may not be working a year from now, but that doesn't even seem relevant because we will just buy the new stuff anyway.

  96. #296
    Action LED Lights
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    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    A year from now there will be something brighter and all the current stuff will be obsolete anyway. The cheap light may or may not be working a year from now, but that doesn't even seem relevant because we will just buy the new stuff anyway.
    The rapid improvement of led's and the occasional need for repair is why we are working on a modular design that will be easily upgradeable by any user. Hope to have it out for next fall.
    Jim Harger
    Action LED Lights
    www.action-led-lights.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Action LED Lights View Post
    The rapid improvement of led's and the occasional need for repair is why we are working on a modular design that will be easily upgradeable by any user. Hope to have it out for next fall.
    ^^ This guy gets it!
    Looking forward to seeing what you come up with!

  98. #298
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    Fasttech delivered. After the same messages regarding the shipping, it finally showed up after about 3+ weeks. Everything seems to be in order and virtually identical to the DUO. However, keep in mind that you don't get a cord extention (which I use all the time), the head band is of far less quality, you don't get a helmet mount, and obviously if you ever have an issue, throw it away. The light however is nice IMO.

    I've got three lights from Gemini and have been very happy with them, I just got this as a relatively cheap experiment for a bar mount climbing light, which it is more than sufficient for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Action LED Lights View Post
    The rapid improvement of led's and the occasional need for repair is why we are working on a modular design that will be easily upgradeable by any user. Hope to have it out for next fall.
    Looking forward to it. Are you designing yourself, or is it a collaboration with one of the major companies?

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    Mine arrived on friday…. A month from order.

    Initial shock because the box showed the generic single XML I have a few of already.

    Light head looks top quality. Battery, not so much.

    I had to set my fan on high to cool it below "ouch" during the runtime tests.
    Ran for three hours on "high"… the output was hugely diminished for the last hour. With a gloworm battery I got more proper runtime but it didn't throttle back at the end.

    Looks like I'll mount it between shifter and grip on the MTB, so no need for a remote switch.

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