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  1. #1
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    FIrst ride with Piko and Wilma

    I decided to replace my potentially explosive MagicShines with two lupines. I am impressed with the Piko light. No so much the Wilma. The Wilma appears to be no brighter on the the trail than the Piko. I have attached a simple beam shot. I don't know what twice as bright should look like, but in this comparison and to my eyes, the Wilma is only marginally brighter than the Piko.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails FIrst ride with Piko and Wilma-img_0043%5B1%5D.jpg  


  2. #2
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    What Wilma do you have?

    Last night I compared my Piko 3 to an older upgraded Wilma 5 with remote the PCS and the Wilma is way brighter than the Piko. Your picture doesn't show the same difference in the two lights that I had noticed.

    Is the Wilma on the highest setting?

    I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
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    It is a 5, Brand new. Setting is high. Thanks for the comparison and confirmation.

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    Not sure if it's case of way to much expectation for the Wilma,but the Wilma 5 is conciderably brighter than the Piko.Light output is kind of like performance cars,a 600 hp car despite having twice the hp of a 300hp car weighing the same, isn't going to reach 100mph twice as fast.Same goes for high powered bike lights.If that makes any sense.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt
    Not sure if it's case of way to much expectation for the Wilma,but the Wilma 5 is conciderably brighter than the Piko.Light output is kind of like performance cars,a 600 hp car despite having twice the hp of a 300hp car weighing the same, isn't going to reach 100mph twice as fast.Same goes for high powered bike lights.If that makes any sense.
    +1
    its like when you dim the wilma at 60% and you realize that is almost as bright as the 100% setting (but you almost double the burning time ). I havent seen the piko but the Wilma, based on numbers should be way more powerful (double actually-which as stated by indebt, it is not perceived as twice as much light though)
    BBW. MS, RD

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    From my experience last night the "spots" from the Piko and Wilma (upgrade) were close to the same size but the Wilma was much brighter in the center with slightly more spread on the edges.
    The Wilma would also throw light further.

    I also got to compare the 22 and 16 lenses on an upgraded Betty 7.
    Much fuller beam pattern there...

    On a sucky note, the cool new CNC bar mount for the Betty and Wilma doesn't fit around a Thomson Elite X4 stem very well.
    A few millimeters wider would have made for a better fit.

    I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
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    I found that out as well Pubcrawl,the Betty mount won't fit any stem wider than 1 5/8".Lupine wont be offering a wider version until spring.A bit of an oversite on their part for a $90:00 mount.Just purchased a new stem for my mount.Not going to hear that to often!!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by indebt
    I found that out as well Pubcrawl,the Betty mount won't fit any stem wider than 1 5/8".Lupine wont be offering a wider version until spring.A bit of an oversite on their part for a $90:00 mount.Just purchased a new stem for my mount.Not going to hear that to often!!
    ya... really sucky. I just bought new Thomson stems for the two main bikes I use.

    A Thomson is a pretty popular stem not to have considered it when designing these mounts.
    I think I might try to "tweak" the mount with some custom bends.
    I got it to some what fit by spreading the arms a bit but I think it puts too much pressure on the small alloy bolts holding it all together. It seems to fit a Raceface Deus stem okay.

    I love the mount just wish it fit better.

    I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
    Hunter S. Thompson

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    My Raceface was 1 7/8" so it's got to go.Picked up a Bontrager stem, hope it works.I know i wouldn't be compfortable making bends myself. What about going to a hobby shop and trying to get a couple of longer screws with same threads and just add a couple of small washers as spacers.Would that work??Nice of me to think of that after purchacing a new stem.Duh!!

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    I measured the current on both lights. The Pico draws about 1 amp on high. The Wilma draws about 1.9 amps on high. The Wilma should be putting out twice the lumens, all else equal. So, how does the human eye perceive a doubling of brightness. Does it require a doubling of lumens? Or, is the perception logarithmic, like sound, so that a doubling of perceived brightness requires more than a doubling of lumens?

  11. #11
    BBW
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    Quote Originally Posted by testtech
    I measured the current on both lights. The Pico draws about 1 amp on high. The Wilma draws about 1.9 amps on high. The Wilma should be putting out twice the lumens, all else equal. So, how does the human eye perceive a doubling of brightness. Does it require a doubling of lumens? Or, is the perception logarithmic, like sound, so that a doubling of perceived brightness requires more than a doubling of lumens?
    I've read something from JohnJ80??? where the eye doesn't perceived twice the lumens as double the light and its curvilinear? or logarithmic
    BBW. MS, RD

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by testtech
    I measured the current on both lights. The Pico draws about 1 amp on high. The Wilma draws about 1.9 amps on high. The Wilma should be putting out twice the lumens, all else equal. So, how does the human eye perceive a doubling of brightness. Does it require a doubling of lumens? Or, is the perception logarithmic, like sound, so that a doubling of perceived brightness requires more than a doubling of lumens?

    Two things. First, is the light perception. I think what you are seeing is the mythical "enough" light. When you have "enough" light, adding more in the same environmental conditions doesn't help because your eyes adjust. I would suggest if you don't need Wilma full power, try running on medium (50% ?). You'll get great run times and low heat for very efficient operation. On the other hand, Wilma is a $600 light. Seems like a lot of money if you're not going to use it to it's full capabilities.

    Next, is a minor point when measuring current draw. You can't check current draw off the battery and know the current to the LEDs without doing some calculations because of the driver. Did you happen to the current on the output side of the driver?
    Long Live Long Rides

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    I just had my first ride last night with the piko 3 and the new wilma 5 and the wilma is MUCH brighter than the piko. It took sometime to get them set up right cause the wilma was overwhelming the piko so when I turned my head to look around the piko would seem too dim. After a few tries I got it right and loved it.

    Has any tried the 18* wilma lens with the XP-G's? I think that little bit more flood would be a perfect combo with the piko.

    JMC
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  14. #14
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    Homebrew--measured at the battery with Hall effect probe. Drive load is included. The order of magnitude difference seems reasonable.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMCCRNA
    I just had my first ride last night with the piko 3 and the new wilma 5 and the wilma is MUCH brighter than the piko. It took sometime to get them set up right cause the wilma was overwhelming the piko so when I turned my head to look around the piko would seem too dim. After a few tries I got it right and loved it.

    Has any tried the 18* wilma lens with the XP-G's? I think that little bit more flood would be a perfect combo with the piko.

    JMC
    Sorry no 18 degree lens available for xpg version
    The set up is important.. I point the helmet light so it doesn't add to the light in front of me so I use the shadow of the barlight and the headlight for when trying to look around the corner
    Enjoy
    BBW. MS, RD

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    @BBW - what I had written about earlier was that beamshots don't work too well with the brighter lights. Cameras can see about 5-6 doublings of light (i.e. f-stops) where the human eye can see about 20 f-stops of light as a range. So the beamshots will not show the relative brightness well and are exceptionally poor (to the point of almost being unusable) in showing the spill from the bright center to the dark unlit areas.

    J.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80
    @BBW - what I had written about earlier was that beamshots don't work too well with the brighter lights. Cameras can see about 5-6 doublings of light (i.e. f-stops) where the human eye can see about 20 f-stops of light as a range. So the beamshots will not show the relative brightness well and are exceptionally poor (to the point of almost being unusable) in showing the spill from the bright center to the dark unlit areas.

    J.
    OK I though you said something maybe in other post
    BBW. MS, RD

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    Well, similar to that is that brightness is not linear but logarithmic/exponential. However, while I'm not totally sure, I believe that lumens take that into account. So a light that is, say, 500 lumens is perceived as half as bright as a light that is 1000 lumens all things being equal (lens, reflector, beam pattern etc...).

    J.

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    Problem solved--I am now using the 22 degree Betty with the Piko. Great combination. The trails I ride are very twisty, narrow, rocky and lined with dense trees. Long throw is not what I need because there are seldom long straight sections of trail. The Betty provides wide, very white, very bright, mid distance lighting. The Piko provides excellent brightness and throw for looking around corners, in a small helmet mounted package. The weight of this combination is the same as the two Magic Shines I used to use but with more than twice the light.

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    BBW-I kept the Piko because the light production and beam quality is more than adequate for a helmet light and I can mount the battery on my helmet. I prefer not have have a battery in my camelback. Concerning light: The Betty plus Piko should produce about 2,400 lumens. I guess the two magic shines produces a total of 900 to 1000 lumens. The MS lights were a great value and offered better illumination than my prior HID light. In the absence of the battery recall, I would have continued to use those lights. However, the improved lighting of the Piko and Betty combination allow greater enjoyment of the night riding experience.

  21. #21
    BBW
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    Quote Originally Posted by testtech
    Problem solved--I am now using the 22 degree Betty with the Piko. Great combination. The trails I ride are very twisty, narrow, rocky and lined with dense trees. Long throw is not what I need because there are seldom long straight sections of trail. The Betty provides wide, very white, very bright, mid distance lighting. The Piko provides excellent brightness and throw for looking around corners, in a small helmet mounted package. The weight of this combination is the same as the two Magic Shines I used to use but with more than twice the light.
    why you didn't keep the Wilma? that's the ultimate combo although the piko is lighter than the wilma (not that the wilma is heavy)
    I'm pretty sure you have way more than double the light of two MS... just the betty puts out 4 times that much
    The betty is a superb light
    BBW. MS, RD

  22. #22
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    I rode the piko, wilma combo again last night. I set the wilma up with the two stage light intensity. I used the high setting (17w) and a medium setting which is 9w or 55%. I found that running it on 9w was an excellent compliment to the piko. The overly bright middle from the wilma that was throwing off the piko was gone. The Wilma at 55% throws the same beam but its more uniform with no hot spot. I only used the high when the trail was more technical. It was an amazing combo, with plenty of light. I think I ran the wilma on medium 75% of the time.

    JMC
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    2010 roubaix Elite, full RED group

  23. #23
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    Got a Pico X coming from GeomanGear tomorrow.

    Already own a Wilma 5, and it's been great on the trail! I just can't fight that feeling of wanting to turn it a little as I power into a curve on some ugly singletrack.. hence, the Pico X for my head (helmet, whatever. I also dabble in cave exploration so the headband will be nice!)

    From your beamshots they almost look the same, but I'll have to see for myself. Friday should be my next ride with both of them on so I'll try to post my impressions.

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    Piko X arrived via UPS, but looking rather travelled:







    Once the box was open, I rifled through the contents and got a basic understanding of how to affix it to my head. Then I changed clothes, prepped one of my bikes, and took off!

    I'll have to say that the Piko X on "high" appears brighter than the Wilma on "medium", but this could just be how the beam pattern is focused. Rode around several adjoining neighborhoods in the dusk and then evening darkness. Had to take some time to get used to having 2 lights! It's disorienting at first...

    Definitely like the small but weighty machined look and feel of the thing. Quality Lupine product as usual.

    and now, a minor complaint:

    While Lupine makes amazing products for the money, it seems the dealers scale accessories so that you end up paying for small items you would normally think are included. When I ordered the Wilma last year, I was expecting 2 o-rings (one small, one large) but only received the default one specified on dealer's order page. OK, I can understand not shipping extra stuff in an order that may not be needed (remember the USB cables that used to come with inkjet printers?), but I was disappointed nonetheless. A call to the dealer educated me on what additional o-rings would cost, complete with shipping (!)

    In the case of the Piko X, I seem to be missing the flexible velcro strap that is used to affix the battery pack to a bike frame. Maybe it was left out because it is the "X" model and only meant to be used around your head? Seems like such a small item to charge extra for, and I didn't see it priced as an accessory when I ordered the light last week. Maybe this was just an oversight, but it irks me that this is the second time something this small and essential was omitted from a Lupine lightset.

    Hope this changes in the future.

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    El, what was your impression of the beam comparison with both lights on high? By the way, I ordered the head band light holder with mine. The headband battery mount is not really compatible with the battery type that is shipped with the bike light kit. I made it work, but I guess you have to inquire about interchangeability for the different mounting and use kits.

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