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  1. #1
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    Dosun D600 ( metal body STVZO light with external lithium battery )

    Dosun D600 ...













    ok so the old Model Dosun D1 is $350 OUCH ! and the new D600 is not available at all. so at first i was like forget it ...

    but the D600 is available in Japan, and out of curiosity i converted the price in Yen into dollars and it is ... $120 !

    damn ! that's crazy ! that's one third of what you pay for the OLD model in US !

    now, interestingly enough the old model is more expensive in Japan too, about $200 ( converted from Yen ) but still half as much as it is in US.

    the new light is better anyway. it's just a marketing strategy to have the old light keep its original price. basically the new light has redesigned mount, simplified operation and external switch. apparently it also has a new cable plug, which also apparently is crap. the light output is supposedly increased from 500 to 600 lumen. of course i don't believe it has 600 lumens for a second, but it's pretty bright for a STVZO light.

    anyway it's sold by amazon japan. i'm thinking about ordering it from Japan through Amazon. what do you think ?

    for $350 for a 4 year old light made by a company from Taiwan it was a joke. but for $120 for a new light we have to consider it seriously.

    this light has approximately the same output as Philips SafeRide / LBL and approximately the same price. of course Dosun is designed in Taiwan while Philips is designed in Germany which should make it much more reliable. The only actual user review on Amazon Japan for the D600 is 3 star and says the cable plug broke. so obviously the D600 is much less reliable than LBL, but ...

    but the D600 has 3.5 hour battery life versus 2 hour for LBL and this is at the same output level and from a light head one third the size. the "secret" of course is external lithium battery pack. both lights are metal, but the LBL runs on four AA batteries whereas the D600 runs on external 2 cell Lithium pack.

    another advantage of D600 is that it has 3 power levels: 3.5 hour, 5 hour and 9 hour run time. this is perfect. on the other hand the Philips only has 2 power modes, where one is too high ( not enough run time ) and one is too low ( barely visible ) and you sort of have to do half your ride in one mode and half in the other.

    what do you think ? have you ever ordered anything from Japan ? from Amazon Japan ?

  2. #2
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    well i was unable to order D600 anywhere - nobody ships to US. i tried a bunch of Japanese stores - none shipped to US ( including Amazon ). i tried a store from Sweden - didn't ship to US either. gave up.

    considering the D1 is a 2009 model i certainly wasn't going to pay $350 for it that it costs in US. but i couldn't get the D600 anywhere at all.

    then i decided to check D400 ...

    interestingly enough D400 is available in Taiwan stores ( Dosun is made in Taiwan ) whereas D600 is available only in Japanese stores, but not in Taiwan stores.

    anyway i was able to order D400 for $175 shipped to US.

    it is hard for me to say this is a good value. the Philips LBL is certainly a better value.

    on the other hand D400 is still a much better value than B&M Ixon IQ Speed, which is a system comparable to D400 in the sense that it has a huge battery and a lightweight light head.

    my problem with Philips LBL wasn't the output, or the price, but the fact that it weighs 300 grams ( just weighed it ) and all of that weight is held by a flimsy mount which can't keep it level as you ride over bumps. then to add insult to injury it runs out of juice in 2 hours.

    by contrast D400 light head is 90 grams - less than 1/3 the weight of Philips, and the run time is 5.5 hours.

    i hope that Taiwan shop comes trough with the goods. i also wonder how long the shipping will take - it basically ships from the other side of the planet. there was no expedited shipping option.

  3. #3
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    are you replacing the philips or is this going to be light #12 in your setup?

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    are you replacing the philips or is this going to be light #12 in your setup?
    so far it is just a test. i need to actually ride with the light to know how it stacks up against the Philips in the real world.

    another variable is the handlebar shape. on the bike i'm using now the handlebar has a lot of curvature in the center which makes it impossible to mount two Philips lights due to how wide the Philips is. on the other hand if i switch to a road style bike i would be able to have two Philips lights on it.

    also, i am not entirely certain whether i will actually get the light considering i ordered it from a site in taiwan, and the overall abysmal availability of these lights.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by HakanC View Post

    hahahahaha ! ! ! i just can't win !

    i love how these forums work. nobody ever answers until you buy something then everybody comes in and says you bought the wrong product. it worked like that last year as well.

    no i didn't see Philips ActiveRide before. i will look at it now ...
    Last edited by androgen; 09-11-2013 at 07:36 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by HakanC View Post
    ok now that i've taken a look it appears that ActiveRide is actualy a knock-off of the original Dosun D1 ! ! !

    the D1 had high and low beams the same way as ActiveRide does. however Dosun later got rid of this gimmick realizing it is dumb, and the new D400/D600 don't have it.

    but the ActiveRide appears to be a bad compromise. the high and low beams require different reflectors, and by using same reflector for both neither one is very good.

    it would be much better to have a dedicated "low beam" or "road" or "stvzo" lamp and a dedicated "high beam" lamp like Light & Motion Seca. this way each beam can be shaped by its own reflector custom tailored to it.

    so what i wanted was a smaller, lighter SafeRide with external lithium pack - and at first glance that's what ActiveRide is, but upon closer inspection it is actually a strange animal.

    the high beam on ActiveRide is useless garbage, and for just using the low beam the light is quite big and expensive, although it might still be better than Dosun, but i would need to do more research.

    basically the ActiveRide is a compromise between road and off road light, whereas SafeRide is a pure road light, with more optimal beam pattern for the road.

    the fact that i didn't know about this light shows however that i need to be doing a better job with my research. whether this light is better than Dosun or worse i should have at least known about it.

    i will need to read up more on the ActiveRide in particular and do more research in general.

  8. #8
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    ok so apparently the low-beam ( road ) light from the ActiveRide looks like this:



    as compared to Saferide which looks like this:



    and Dosun ( D600 pictured, the D400 i ordered may look slightly different )



    clearly the SafeRide and Dosun are designed for road use while ActiveRide is not - the beam has too much width and not enough throw.

    of course between these 3 lights the ActiveRide on low beam will put down the most lumens, but we're not after Lumens here as any $40 chinese light will put out more lumens than any of these 3 lights. we're here after efficient and even coverage with good cutoff.

    the most problematic aspect of the beam shot of the ActiveRide to me is that the nearfield is significantly brighter than what should have been the main part of the beam. this is unacceptable because the eyes will adjust to the brighter part of the beam and that will diminish your ability to see precisely where you're trying to improve your ability to see. this is again clear evidence that the beam was designed for off-road use not road use where you want the brightest point much further away.

    even on the Dosun i'm not 100% comfortable with the high brightness it has in the near field. the SafeRide is probably the best in this regard - it puts the light precisely where it is supposed to go - unfortunately it is the worst in other regards like weight and battery life.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    ....
    the most problematic aspect of the beam shot of the ActiveRide to me is that the nearfield is significantly brighter than what should have been the main part of the beam. this is unacceptable because the eyes will adjust to the brighter part of the beam and that will diminish your ability to see precisely where you're trying to improve your ability to see. this is again clear evidence that the beam was designed for off-road use not road use where you want the brightest point much further away.

    ...
    This is not necessarily always true. The pace/speed at which you are riding plays a big part in the type of light output that will be needed. The beam being focused down the road instead of in the near field in more for higher speed riding where you can see and adjust to obstacles/road conditions accordingly because you are going so fast. We are all racers in our heads and believe we ride at those high speed levels and hell some really do continuously ride at those levels ... and at night .... in a crowded city with cross streets and stop lights etc.... but the VAST majority do not.

    Which brings us back to finding a balance of some sort between the two distance and near field visibility.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    This is not necessarily always true. The pace/speed at which you are riding plays a big part in the type of light output that will be needed. The beam being focused down the road instead of in the near field in more for higher speed riding where you can see and adjust to obstacles/road conditions accordingly because you are going so fast. We are all racers in our heads and believe we ride at those high speed levels and hell some really do continuously ride at those levels ... and at night .... in a crowded city with cross streets and stop lights etc.... but the VAST majority do not.

    Which brings us back to finding a balance of some sort between the two distance and near field visibility.
    i'd like to have roughly even lighting level from about 3 meter to 10 meters ahead of me, with lower, but not zero lighting level in the first 3 meters. beyond 10 meters i will use my helmet light.

    the SafeRide pattern is remarkably close to that, but the light itself falls short in other areas such as size, weight and battery run time.

    overall the situation in the market is abysmal.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    i'd like to have roughly even lighting level from about 3 meter to 10 meters ahead of me, with lower, but not zero lighting level in the first 3 meters. beyond 10 meters i will use my helmet light.

    the SafeRide pattern is remarkably close to that, but the light itself falls short in other areas such as size, weight and battery run time.

    overall the situation in the market is abysmal.
    market situation = abysmal = business opportunity

    where there is a need someone will pay accordingly. Get your creative juices flowing Androgen!!!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by HakanC View Post
    Have looked into the Philips ActiveRide-light?
    The Philips Activeride seems indeed a promising light. However, for my taste its presentation is a bit too "colorful".
    Read this (your own thread!), the real test seems not to keep up with the "commercials": New Philps light

    @androgen
    You are aware of "camera settings"? Beamshots are only comparable if shot with the identical settings. It's no problem to shoots pics of a 200 lumen lamp and let it appear brighter than then newest Betty ...
    Just a thought, since you're comparing pics at random ...

  13. #13
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    I love it's beam projection.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHnuschti View Post

    @androgen
    You are aware of "camera settings"? Beamshots are only comparable if shot with the identical settings. It's no problem to shoots pics of a 200 lumen lamp and let it appear brighter than then newest Betty ...
    Just a thought, since you're comparing pics at random ...
    why does everybody think i'm an idiot ?

    yes i own a DSLR i understand what aperture, exposure and ISO is.

    i also own a LUX meter, although the only reason i got it was to test how bright my studio lights are for my youtube videos. i knew a TV studio is supposed to have 1,000 LUX and my lights produce about that much. upgrading the lights would have cost $1,000. the meter was $30 and so it saved me a bunch of money by letting me know i already have the levels i need.

    the difference in beam pattern between the 3 lights is obvious from the beam shots i posted. i didn't post the beam shots to compare output levels, but to compare beam patterns.

    you people ...

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khrystyan27 View Post
    I love it's beam projection.
    what do you mean ?

  16. #16
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    I wanted to say that I really love how the Dosun D600 projects the light on the road, compared to other expensive and useless products from let's say Busch&Muller and other manufacturers...

    It's beam pattern is extremely close to the beam of my car's OEM HID's.

    I'm thinking about buying this light when they will accept shipping to Romania.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khrystyan27 View Post
    I wanted to say that I really love how the Dosun D600 projects the light on the road, compared to other expensive and useless products from let's say Busch&Muller and other manufacturers...

    It's beam pattern is extremely close to the beam of my car's OEM HID's.

    I'm thinking about buying this light when they will accept shipping to Romania.
    this light seems to be cheap in Japan and expensive everywhere else. it is in fact more expensive in Taiwan ( where it is made ! ) than it is in Japan. and you can't even buy the more powerful D600 version in Taiwan which is silly. of course it is not as unusual as it may seem - for example made-in-Germany BMW cars actually are cheaper in USA than in Germany. it is possible that in the future the light will hit new markets at a good price, or that may never happen.

    as for the beam - i don't think we are close to car OEM HID yet. the systems used in cars are very powerful and very sophisticated and their beam is very wide and even and has a very sharp cutoff. there are no bike lights like this on the market, and in fact you don't even want a bike light like this because you would need a very large battery to power it. for a bike light we want a beam that still is bright and with a sharp cutoff like car HID but we want the beam much narrower ( to save power ) and we want it to have maximum brightness at a certain distance from the bike ( at about 10 meters, with effective lighting from about 1 to 20 meters ) whereas cars need their beams bright for at least 50 meters.

    of course it depends on how fast you ride and how good your braking skills are. my braking skills are not very good at all. when i brake my rear wheel locks up comletely and my front wheel is only braking at about 50% capacity. i once crashed and dislocated my shoulder because i couldn't brake fast enough, and if i had better technique i might have stopped in time. but whatever your stopping distance is, your brightest part of the beam should probably extend from that distance up to about 1.5X that distance to give you time to identify the obstacle and react. so if your stopping distance is 10 meters i would like to have the brightest part of the beam from 10 to 15 meters or so, with usable light from 1 to 20 meters.

    the B&M Ixon IQ ( and Speed ) systems is actually quite close to this ideal, but i don't like that the beam has sharp cutoff on all 4 sides - it should only have a sharp cutoff on the top, and feather out gradually on the other 3 sides. another obvious problem with B&M Ixon IQ ( and Speed ) systems is just overall lack of output.

    an ideal bike light pattern would actually be in-between Car OEM HID lights and B&M Ixon IQ light.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    My ideal bike light pattern would actually be in-between Car OEM HID lights and B&M Ixon IQ light.
    Fixed that for you.

    [Soapbox]
    What works for your use in urban city riding is quite different than what I like best for my forest trail riding. Other fellow trail riders like something other than what I like because it suits them better. That's A OK!

    Your black and white statements on MTBR are mostly your opinion and preferences, not facts. Not respecting others opinions and preferences leads to pointless internet arguing where no one can possibly "win". This forum is typically a pleasant spot to share opinions and experiences with most users respecting the fact that each have theirs and are entitled to them.
    [/Soapbox]

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Fixed that for you.

    [Soapbox]
    What works for your use in urban city riding is quite different than what I like best for my forest trail riding. Other fellow trail riders like something other than what I like because it suits them better. That's A OK![/Soapbox]
    only an idiot would buy an STVZO light to ride trails with ...

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    [Soapbox]Your black and white statements on MTBR are mostly your opinion and preferences, not facts. Not respecting others opinions and preferences leads to pointless internet arguing where no one can possibly "win". This forum is typically a pleasant spot to share opinions and experiences with most users respecting the fact that each have theirs and are entitled to them.
    [/Soapbox]
    it's not my fault that i'm always right ...

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    only an idiot would buy an STVZO light to ride trails with ...
    Maybe I'm an idiot cause I'd love to get the reflector out of a Saferide to build an XML based trail light for bar use.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Maybe I'm an idiot cause I'd love to get the reflector out of a Saferide to build an XML based trail light for bar use.
    what for ? just get a NiteRider Pro 3600 and be done with it.

    even if you put two XML2s in a SafeRide and drive them to the limit it won't beat the NiteRider, because the NR is already properly designed for trail use while the SafeRide is not.


  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    it's not my fault that i'm always right ...
    We accept there's a need for a village idiot for the globe to keep spinning but why, why, why are we stuck with this guy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    what for ? just get a NiteRider Pro 3600 and be done with it.

    even if you put two XML2s in a SafeRide and drive them to the limit it won't beat the NiteRider, because the NR is already properly designed for trail use while the SafeRide is not.
    For starters my experience NR, albeit quite dated, is their quality is poor. I had a 50% failure rate within 2 years with their products. Fixing them is what gave me the motivation to quit buying overpriced bike lights and build my own.

    I'm not certain of the beam style of the 3600, but I expect it is a great bright flood light that may throw a fair distance due to brute power. I'm not a fan of that beam style. A shaped beam is something I'm intrigued by and would like to experiment with.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    For starters my experience NR, albeit quite dated, is their quality is poor. I had a 50% failure rate within 2 years with their products. Fixing them is what gave me the motivation to quit buying overpriced bike lights and build my own.

    I'm not certain of the beam style of the 3600, but I expect it is a great bright flood light that may throw a fair distance due to brute power. I'm not a fan of that beam style. A shaped beam is something I'm intrigued by and would like to experiment with.
    but a shaped beam only makes sense on a shaped path, that is to say a road. a Seca has a beam that is about half the width of NR and better shaped, and two Secas have the same output as a NR and about the same system weight and cost. the saferide beam is half the width of seca, but 1/5th the power, and double the size and weight.

    a Seca on helmet and a NR on bar would make a great off-road combo.

    the Philips beam is so precisely shaped that the only time it works properly is when you aim it. 1 minute later it already is misaligned. i re-adjust mine 20-30 times per ride ... on paved road.

    you can see in my video what happens when it gets misaligned:



    i didn't misalign it on purpose. i simply forgot to straighten it after it sagged under its own weight overnight while fully tightened. it simply projects a tiny spot on the pavement. the whole benefit of the shaped beam pattern is destroyed. it is practically impossible to keep it properly leveled, which is one of the reasons i'm looking for alternatives.

    the Dosun beam isn't as well shaped as Philips, but form my experience, the Philips beam is impossible to make use of in real world anyway. they would need to totally redesign the mount and cut the weight of the light at least in half for that beam to begin to be useful.

    the Seca is a much better light overall. it is actually smoother and more even than Philips but best of all it works well through a range of angles, not just at a precise one angle. however for an off-road bar light i would want a super-wide beam like the NR3600. i posted a video in this thread of the NR beam on a singletrack where you can clearly see how good it is. but if you missed it here it is again:

    Chumash.wmv - YouTube

    if you put a modded saferide in its place it would be laughable in comparison.

    basically NR3600 has perfect beam for off roading. seca has perfect beam for the road. saferide has perfect beam for MUP and German roads.

    i like to have a SafeRide type light because it is "free" in a sense that it adds no weight to my helmet like Seca and it doesn't add any glare to other people like NR. so there is no reason not to have it ON THE ROAD. in fact there is no reason not to have TWO of them. the only reason i don't have two is because i have a weird shaped bar that won't let me fit two. so one of the main reasons i'm looking at Dosun is because it is smaller, and i could fit two of them on the bar.

    however, obviously if Dosun sucks then i won't be getting a second one ...

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