Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 73
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902

    Dosun D600 ( metal body STVZO light with external lithium battery )

    Dosun D600 ...













    ok so the old Model Dosun D1 is $350 OUCH ! and the new D600 is not available at all. so at first i was like forget it ...

    but the D600 is available in Japan, and out of curiosity i converted the price in Yen into dollars and it is ... $120 !

    damn ! that's crazy ! that's one third of what you pay for the OLD model in US !

    now, interestingly enough the old model is more expensive in Japan too, about $200 ( converted from Yen ) but still half as much as it is in US.

    the new light is better anyway. it's just a marketing strategy to have the old light keep its original price. basically the new light has redesigned mount, simplified operation and external switch. apparently it also has a new cable plug, which also apparently is crap. the light output is supposedly increased from 500 to 600 lumen. of course i don't believe it has 600 lumens for a second, but it's pretty bright for a STVZO light.

    anyway it's sold by amazon japan. i'm thinking about ordering it from Japan through Amazon. what do you think ?

    for $350 for a 4 year old light made by a company from Taiwan it was a joke. but for $120 for a new light we have to consider it seriously.

    this light has approximately the same output as Philips SafeRide / LBL and approximately the same price. of course Dosun is designed in Taiwan while Philips is designed in Germany which should make it much more reliable. The only actual user review on Amazon Japan for the D600 is 3 star and says the cable plug broke. so obviously the D600 is much less reliable than LBL, but ...

    but the D600 has 3.5 hour battery life versus 2 hour for LBL and this is at the same output level and from a light head one third the size. the "secret" of course is external lithium battery pack. both lights are metal, but the LBL runs on four AA batteries whereas the D600 runs on external 2 cell Lithium pack.

    another advantage of D600 is that it has 3 power levels: 3.5 hour, 5 hour and 9 hour run time. this is perfect. on the other hand the Philips only has 2 power modes, where one is too high ( not enough run time ) and one is too low ( barely visible ) and you sort of have to do half your ride in one mode and half in the other.

    what do you think ? have you ever ordered anything from Japan ? from Amazon Japan ?

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    well i was unable to order D600 anywhere - nobody ships to US. i tried a bunch of Japanese stores - none shipped to US ( including Amazon ). i tried a store from Sweden - didn't ship to US either. gave up.

    considering the D1 is a 2009 model i certainly wasn't going to pay $350 for it that it costs in US. but i couldn't get the D600 anywhere at all.

    then i decided to check D400 ...

    interestingly enough D400 is available in Taiwan stores ( Dosun is made in Taiwan ) whereas D600 is available only in Japanese stores, but not in Taiwan stores.

    anyway i was able to order D400 for $175 shipped to US.

    it is hard for me to say this is a good value. the Philips LBL is certainly a better value.

    on the other hand D400 is still a much better value than B&M Ixon IQ Speed, which is a system comparable to D400 in the sense that it has a huge battery and a lightweight light head.

    my problem with Philips LBL wasn't the output, or the price, but the fact that it weighs 300 grams ( just weighed it ) and all of that weight is held by a flimsy mount which can't keep it level as you ride over bumps. then to add insult to injury it runs out of juice in 2 hours.

    by contrast D400 light head is 90 grams - less than 1/3 the weight of Philips, and the run time is 5.5 hours.

    i hope that Taiwan shop comes trough with the goods. i also wonder how long the shipping will take - it basically ships from the other side of the planet. there was no expedited shipping option.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    225
    are you replacing the philips or is this going to be light #12 in your setup?

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    120

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    are you replacing the philips or is this going to be light #12 in your setup?
    so far it is just a test. i need to actually ride with the light to know how it stacks up against the Philips in the real world.

    another variable is the handlebar shape. on the bike i'm using now the handlebar has a lot of curvature in the center which makes it impossible to mount two Philips lights due to how wide the Philips is. on the other hand if i switch to a road style bike i would be able to have two Philips lights on it.

    also, i am not entirely certain whether i will actually get the light considering i ordered it from a site in taiwan, and the overall abysmal availability of these lights.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by HakanC View Post

    hahahahaha ! ! ! i just can't win !

    i love how these forums work. nobody ever answers until you buy something then everybody comes in and says you bought the wrong product. it worked like that last year as well.

    no i didn't see Philips ActiveRide before. i will look at it now ...
    Last edited by androgen; 09-11-2013 at 07:36 PM.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by HakanC View Post
    ok now that i've taken a look it appears that ActiveRide is actualy a knock-off of the original Dosun D1 ! ! !

    the D1 had high and low beams the same way as ActiveRide does. however Dosun later got rid of this gimmick realizing it is dumb, and the new D400/D600 don't have it.

    but the ActiveRide appears to be a bad compromise. the high and low beams require different reflectors, and by using same reflector for both neither one is very good.

    it would be much better to have a dedicated "low beam" or "road" or "stvzo" lamp and a dedicated "high beam" lamp like Light & Motion Seca. this way each beam can be shaped by its own reflector custom tailored to it.

    so what i wanted was a smaller, lighter SafeRide with external lithium pack - and at first glance that's what ActiveRide is, but upon closer inspection it is actually a strange animal.

    the high beam on ActiveRide is useless garbage, and for just using the low beam the light is quite big and expensive, although it might still be better than Dosun, but i would need to do more research.

    basically the ActiveRide is a compromise between road and off road light, whereas SafeRide is a pure road light, with more optimal beam pattern for the road.

    the fact that i didn't know about this light shows however that i need to be doing a better job with my research. whether this light is better than Dosun or worse i should have at least known about it.

    i will need to read up more on the ActiveRide in particular and do more research in general.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    ok so apparently the low-beam ( road ) light from the ActiveRide looks like this:



    as compared to Saferide which looks like this:



    and Dosun ( D600 pictured, the D400 i ordered may look slightly different )



    clearly the SafeRide and Dosun are designed for road use while ActiveRide is not - the beam has too much width and not enough throw.

    of course between these 3 lights the ActiveRide on low beam will put down the most lumens, but we're not after Lumens here as any $40 chinese light will put out more lumens than any of these 3 lights. we're here after efficient and even coverage with good cutoff.

    the most problematic aspect of the beam shot of the ActiveRide to me is that the nearfield is significantly brighter than what should have been the main part of the beam. this is unacceptable because the eyes will adjust to the brighter part of the beam and that will diminish your ability to see precisely where you're trying to improve your ability to see. this is again clear evidence that the beam was designed for off-road use not road use where you want the brightest point much further away.

    even on the Dosun i'm not 100% comfortable with the high brightness it has in the near field. the SafeRide is probably the best in this regard - it puts the light precisely where it is supposed to go - unfortunately it is the worst in other regards like weight and battery life.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    225
    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    ....
    the most problematic aspect of the beam shot of the ActiveRide to me is that the nearfield is significantly brighter than what should have been the main part of the beam. this is unacceptable because the eyes will adjust to the brighter part of the beam and that will diminish your ability to see precisely where you're trying to improve your ability to see. this is again clear evidence that the beam was designed for off-road use not road use where you want the brightest point much further away.

    ...
    This is not necessarily always true. The pace/speed at which you are riding plays a big part in the type of light output that will be needed. The beam being focused down the road instead of in the near field in more for higher speed riding where you can see and adjust to obstacles/road conditions accordingly because you are going so fast. We are all racers in our heads and believe we ride at those high speed levels and hell some really do continuously ride at those levels ... and at night .... in a crowded city with cross streets and stop lights etc.... but the VAST majority do not.

    Which brings us back to finding a balance of some sort between the two distance and near field visibility.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    This is not necessarily always true. The pace/speed at which you are riding plays a big part in the type of light output that will be needed. The beam being focused down the road instead of in the near field in more for higher speed riding where you can see and adjust to obstacles/road conditions accordingly because you are going so fast. We are all racers in our heads and believe we ride at those high speed levels and hell some really do continuously ride at those levels ... and at night .... in a crowded city with cross streets and stop lights etc.... but the VAST majority do not.

    Which brings us back to finding a balance of some sort between the two distance and near field visibility.
    i'd like to have roughly even lighting level from about 3 meter to 10 meters ahead of me, with lower, but not zero lighting level in the first 3 meters. beyond 10 meters i will use my helmet light.

    the SafeRide pattern is remarkably close to that, but the light itself falls short in other areas such as size, weight and battery run time.

    overall the situation in the market is abysmal.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    225
    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    i'd like to have roughly even lighting level from about 3 meter to 10 meters ahead of me, with lower, but not zero lighting level in the first 3 meters. beyond 10 meters i will use my helmet light.

    the SafeRide pattern is remarkably close to that, but the light itself falls short in other areas such as size, weight and battery run time.

    overall the situation in the market is abysmal.
    market situation = abysmal = business opportunity

    where there is a need someone will pay accordingly. Get your creative juices flowing Androgen!!!

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    129
    Quote Originally Posted by HakanC View Post
    Have looked into the Philips ActiveRide-light?
    The Philips Activeride seems indeed a promising light. However, for my taste its presentation is a bit too "colorful".
    Read this (your own thread!), the real test seems not to keep up with the "commercials": New Philps light

    @androgen
    You are aware of "camera settings"? Beamshots are only comparable if shot with the identical settings. It's no problem to shoots pics of a 200 lumen lamp and let it appear brighter than then newest Betty ...
    Just a thought, since you're comparing pics at random ...

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Khrystyan27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    157
    I love it's beam projection.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by CHnuschti View Post

    @androgen
    You are aware of "camera settings"? Beamshots are only comparable if shot with the identical settings. It's no problem to shoots pics of a 200 lumen lamp and let it appear brighter than then newest Betty ...
    Just a thought, since you're comparing pics at random ...
    why does everybody think i'm an idiot ?

    yes i own a DSLR i understand what aperture, exposure and ISO is.

    i also own a LUX meter, although the only reason i got it was to test how bright my studio lights are for my youtube videos. i knew a TV studio is supposed to have 1,000 LUX and my lights produce about that much. upgrading the lights would have cost $1,000. the meter was $30 and so it saved me a bunch of money by letting me know i already have the levels i need.

    the difference in beam pattern between the 3 lights is obvious from the beam shots i posted. i didn't post the beam shots to compare output levels, but to compare beam patterns.

    you people ...

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by Khrystyan27 View Post
    I love it's beam projection.
    what do you mean ?

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Khrystyan27's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    157
    I wanted to say that I really love how the Dosun D600 projects the light on the road, compared to other expensive and useless products from let's say Busch&Muller and other manufacturers...

    It's beam pattern is extremely close to the beam of my car's OEM HID's.

    I'm thinking about buying this light when they will accept shipping to Romania.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by Khrystyan27 View Post
    I wanted to say that I really love how the Dosun D600 projects the light on the road, compared to other expensive and useless products from let's say Busch&Muller and other manufacturers...

    It's beam pattern is extremely close to the beam of my car's OEM HID's.

    I'm thinking about buying this light when they will accept shipping to Romania.
    this light seems to be cheap in Japan and expensive everywhere else. it is in fact more expensive in Taiwan ( where it is made ! ) than it is in Japan. and you can't even buy the more powerful D600 version in Taiwan which is silly. of course it is not as unusual as it may seem - for example made-in-Germany BMW cars actually are cheaper in USA than in Germany. it is possible that in the future the light will hit new markets at a good price, or that may never happen.

    as for the beam - i don't think we are close to car OEM HID yet. the systems used in cars are very powerful and very sophisticated and their beam is very wide and even and has a very sharp cutoff. there are no bike lights like this on the market, and in fact you don't even want a bike light like this because you would need a very large battery to power it. for a bike light we want a beam that still is bright and with a sharp cutoff like car HID but we want the beam much narrower ( to save power ) and we want it to have maximum brightness at a certain distance from the bike ( at about 10 meters, with effective lighting from about 1 to 20 meters ) whereas cars need their beams bright for at least 50 meters.

    of course it depends on how fast you ride and how good your braking skills are. my braking skills are not very good at all. when i brake my rear wheel locks up comletely and my front wheel is only braking at about 50% capacity. i once crashed and dislocated my shoulder because i couldn't brake fast enough, and if i had better technique i might have stopped in time. but whatever your stopping distance is, your brightest part of the beam should probably extend from that distance up to about 1.5X that distance to give you time to identify the obstacle and react. so if your stopping distance is 10 meters i would like to have the brightest part of the beam from 10 to 15 meters or so, with usable light from 1 to 20 meters.

    the B&M Ixon IQ ( and Speed ) systems is actually quite close to this ideal, but i don't like that the beam has sharp cutoff on all 4 sides - it should only have a sharp cutoff on the top, and feather out gradually on the other 3 sides. another obvious problem with B&M Ixon IQ ( and Speed ) systems is just overall lack of output.

    an ideal bike light pattern would actually be in-between Car OEM HID lights and B&M Ixon IQ light.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    3,098
    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    My ideal bike light pattern would actually be in-between Car OEM HID lights and B&M Ixon IQ light.
    Fixed that for you.

    [Soapbox]
    What works for your use in urban city riding is quite different than what I like best for my forest trail riding. Other fellow trail riders like something other than what I like because it suits them better. That's A OK!

    Your black and white statements on MTBR are mostly your opinion and preferences, not facts. Not respecting others opinions and preferences leads to pointless internet arguing where no one can possibly "win". This forum is typically a pleasant spot to share opinions and experiences with most users respecting the fact that each have theirs and are entitled to them.
    [/Soapbox]

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Fixed that for you.

    [Soapbox]
    What works for your use in urban city riding is quite different than what I like best for my forest trail riding. Other fellow trail riders like something other than what I like because it suits them better. That's A OK![/Soapbox]
    only an idiot would buy an STVZO light to ride trails with ...

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    [Soapbox]Your black and white statements on MTBR are mostly your opinion and preferences, not facts. Not respecting others opinions and preferences leads to pointless internet arguing where no one can possibly "win". This forum is typically a pleasant spot to share opinions and experiences with most users respecting the fact that each have theirs and are entitled to them.
    [/Soapbox]
    it's not my fault that i'm always right ...

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    3,098
    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    only an idiot would buy an STVZO light to ride trails with ...
    Maybe I'm an idiot cause I'd love to get the reflector out of a Saferide to build an XML based trail light for bar use.

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Maybe I'm an idiot cause I'd love to get the reflector out of a Saferide to build an XML based trail light for bar use.
    what for ? just get a NiteRider Pro 3600 and be done with it.

    even if you put two XML2s in a SafeRide and drive them to the limit it won't beat the NiteRider, because the NR is already properly designed for trail use while the SafeRide is not.


  23. #23
    6ix
    6ix is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    13
    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    it's not my fault that i'm always right ...
    We accept there's a need for a village idiot for the globe to keep spinning but why, why, why are we stuck with this guy?

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    3,098
    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    what for ? just get a NiteRider Pro 3600 and be done with it.

    even if you put two XML2s in a SafeRide and drive them to the limit it won't beat the NiteRider, because the NR is already properly designed for trail use while the SafeRide is not.
    For starters my experience NR, albeit quite dated, is their quality is poor. I had a 50% failure rate within 2 years with their products. Fixing them is what gave me the motivation to quit buying overpriced bike lights and build my own.

    I'm not certain of the beam style of the 3600, but I expect it is a great bright flood light that may throw a fair distance due to brute power. I'm not a fan of that beam style. A shaped beam is something I'm intrigued by and would like to experiment with.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    For starters my experience NR, albeit quite dated, is their quality is poor. I had a 50% failure rate within 2 years with their products. Fixing them is what gave me the motivation to quit buying overpriced bike lights and build my own.

    I'm not certain of the beam style of the 3600, but I expect it is a great bright flood light that may throw a fair distance due to brute power. I'm not a fan of that beam style. A shaped beam is something I'm intrigued by and would like to experiment with.
    but a shaped beam only makes sense on a shaped path, that is to say a road. a Seca has a beam that is about half the width of NR and better shaped, and two Secas have the same output as a NR and about the same system weight and cost. the saferide beam is half the width of seca, but 1/5th the power, and double the size and weight.

    a Seca on helmet and a NR on bar would make a great off-road combo.

    the Philips beam is so precisely shaped that the only time it works properly is when you aim it. 1 minute later it already is misaligned. i re-adjust mine 20-30 times per ride ... on paved road.

    you can see in my video what happens when it gets misaligned:



    i didn't misalign it on purpose. i simply forgot to straighten it after it sagged under its own weight overnight while fully tightened. it simply projects a tiny spot on the pavement. the whole benefit of the shaped beam pattern is destroyed. it is practically impossible to keep it properly leveled, which is one of the reasons i'm looking for alternatives.

    the Dosun beam isn't as well shaped as Philips, but form my experience, the Philips beam is impossible to make use of in real world anyway. they would need to totally redesign the mount and cut the weight of the light at least in half for that beam to begin to be useful.

    the Seca is a much better light overall. it is actually smoother and more even than Philips but best of all it works well through a range of angles, not just at a precise one angle. however for an off-road bar light i would want a super-wide beam like the NR3600. i posted a video in this thread of the NR beam on a singletrack where you can clearly see how good it is. but if you missed it here it is again:

    Chumash.wmv - YouTube

    if you put a modded saferide in its place it would be laughable in comparison.

    basically NR3600 has perfect beam for off roading. seca has perfect beam for the road. saferide has perfect beam for MUP and German roads.

    i like to have a SafeRide type light because it is "free" in a sense that it adds no weight to my helmet like Seca and it doesn't add any glare to other people like NR. so there is no reason not to have it ON THE ROAD. in fact there is no reason not to have TWO of them. the only reason i don't have two is because i have a weird shaped bar that won't let me fit two. so one of the main reasons i'm looking at Dosun is because it is smaller, and i could fit two of them on the bar.

    however, obviously if Dosun sucks then i won't be getting a second one ...

  26. #26
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    120
    Quote Originally Posted by CHnuschti View Post
    The Philips Activeride seems indeed a promising light. However, for my taste its presentation is a bit too "colorful".
    Read this (your own thread!), the real test seems not to keep up with the "commercials": New Philps light
    Please note:
    I will never buy an ActiveRide light myself, I am more then satisfied with my modified 80 Lux Philips-light.
    With an LFlex and a 7,4V LiION-external battery and 1A through the LEDs I get >120 Lux (verified by my Lux-meter) out of it.


    /Håkan
    SWEDEN

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    120
    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    i love how these forums work. nobody ever answers until you buy something then everybody comes in and says you bought the wrong product. it worked like that last year as well.
    I will chose to ignore that and instead comment on
    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    the Philips beam is so precisely shaped that the only time it works properly is when you aim it. 1 minute later it already is misaligned. i re-adjust mine 20-30 times per ride ... on paved road.
    Which type of holder do You use with Your Philips SafeRide?

    The Gen1 holder
    Name:  1471700_1.jpg
Views: 719
Size:  6.2 KB

    or the Gen2 holder
    Name:  1914348_1.jpg
Views: 741
Size:  5.0 KB

    The reason I ask is that soo many people apparently have been dissapointed in the Gen2-holder that Philips is sending a Gen1-holder to those who complain to them about the Gen2-holder.
    This is published on Amazon by Philips
    Dosun D600 ( metal body STVZO light with external lithium battery )-81qipldmhol._sl1500_.jpg
    In English: call 0080074454775 to get a free Gen1-holder

    And I know fore sure that the big european mail order bike store Rose now includes the Gen1-holder for free with every Philips 80 Lux light:
    Philips front light LED BikeLight SafeRide 80 offers at the cycling shop Rose Bikes UK
    I ordered the Philips 80 Lux light myself a couple of weeks ago when they sold it for 50 € (as that day special offer) and in the box was two holders, one Gen1 and one Gen2.


    /Håkan
    SWEDEN

  28. #28
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Cat-man-do's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    5,202
    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    ...but a shaped beam only makes sense on a shaped path, that is to say a road. a Seca has a beam that is about half the width of NR and better shaped, and two Secas have the same output as a NR and about the same system weight and cost. the saferide beam is half the width of seca, but 1/5th the power, and double the size and weight.

    a Seca on helmet and a NR on bar would make a great off-road combo.

    the Philips beam is so precisely shaped that the only time it works properly is when you aim it. 1 minute later it already is misaligned. i re-adjust mine 20-30 times per ride ... on paved road.

    .
    I wouldn't go quite that far. True perhaps if the output is as low as a standard Saferide but if modded with twin XM-L's there is going to be some spill. I would think that might work well on trails as well as long as you are using an additional helmet lamp for spot/throw duties.

    What you said about the phillips beam ...
    the Philips beam is so precisely shaped that the only time it works properly is when you aim it. 1 minute later it already is misaligned. i re-adjust mine 20-30 times per ride ... on paved road.
    ...I take this is a problem with the lamp moving around on the bars but I think it also has to do with the limitations of the beam pattern/lamp design. No matter how you set the lamp there is going to be dead spots, either close in near the bike or beyond the cutoff ( depending on how it is aimed ).

    I've been watching the evolution of German style lamps that use special custom reflectors designed to produce "sculpted road beam patterns". Some of these are getting better. Shouldn't be too long before someone creates one without dead spots/artifacts.

    I'd like to see a road lamp made the following way: two way Sculpted beam pattern ( high/low ) in one package with remote. Hopefully with at least a 600 lumen low and a 1200 lumen high. The high beam would use a separate reflector for additional throw when needed. Done right it could make a lot of people happy. On the other hand if the design is too large ( or too ugly ) no one here ( in USA ) is going to want one.

    In the mean time I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Some of the dynamo set-ups are starting to look real good. I have a feeling by next year I might start experimenting with dynamo lamps just to try something new.

  29. #29
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    3,098
    In my mind a trail is a shaped path so maybe a shaped beam would be nice. My main interest in trying a build with XMLs and a reflector like the Saferide is to see how the "cutoff" works. Currently all my lights use a round reflector or optic. The resulting beam is a cone shape. When the beam is aimed to illuminate out to about 100 feet, there is a usable spill down to light closer in to the bike. An equal spill goes to the sides which is OK as long as it is not too bright. Last, there is spill upwards that, IMO, is pretty much wasted. I put a shroud on one of my earlier lights that had too wide a beam. It shielded the top entirely and about 50% of the sides. It worked to block that spill but though made of aluminum and polished it mostly blocked the light, instead of directing it forward. That's where the Saferide reflector intrigues me. Take the light that is wasted in side and upward spill and direct it forward. I only want to light up where I am going, not what is above or to the side of me. When I'm on tight twisty trail or switchbacks my helmet light is all I need to light up where I'm going to go. I may find that losing that upward spill might make low branches harder to see, but that's one of the things I want to test.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    979
    It looks like the new (?) Magicshine eagle has a similar design to the original post
    MAGICSHINE

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by HakanC View Post
    Please note:
    I will never buy an ActiveRide light myself, I am more then satisfied with my modified 80 Lux Philips-light.
    With an LFlex and a 7,4V LiION-external battery and 1A through the LEDs I get >120 Lux (verified by my Lux-meter) out of it.


    /Håkan
    SWEDEN
    i know this isn't the DIY forum, but did many people modify their SafeRide ? i thought it was just Penthelman ? did you do the same upgrade as him or did you use your own design ? are there any detailed instructions on the net on how to do this ? or do you simply have to know how to design LED lights on your own ?

    finally - 120 Lux ? is that just a 50% improvement, or is the beam also wider due to larger LEDs ? how much of a boost are you getting ? what about Penthelman, is his also 120 Lux ? do you think simply using two SafeRides would be as bright ?

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Cat-man-do's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    5,202
    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    In my mind a trail is a shaped path so maybe a shaped beam would be nice. My main interest in trying a build with XMLs and a reflector like the Saferide is to see how the "cutoff" works. Currently all my lights use a round reflector or optic. The resulting beam is a cone shape. When the beam is aimed to illuminate out to about 100 feet, there is a usable spill down to light closer in to the bike. An equal spill goes to the sides which is OK as long as it is not too bright. Last, there is spill upwards that, IMO, is pretty much wasted. I put a shroud on one of my earlier lights that had too wide a beam. It shielded the top entirely and about 50% of the sides. It worked to block that spill but though made of aluminum and polished it mostly blocked the light, instead of directing it forward. That's where the Saferide reflector intrigues me. Take the light that is wasted in side and upward spill and direct it forward. I only want to light up where I am going, not what is above or to the side of me. When I'm on tight twisty trail or switchbacks my helmet light is all I need to light up where I'm going to go. I may find that losing that upward spill might make low branches harder to see, but that's one of the things I want to test.
    When mountain biking there are times when the upward spill of the lamp actually does something useful. If you are riding on trails that have roller-coaster sections ( short up/downs sections ) the upward spill helps see what's coming up just before you reach the bottom. Secondly it also helps with seeing the spider webs. For the last couple weeks the spiders where I live have been very active. Must be the season when they get busy. Just last week I was lucky enough to avoid one that was perfectly aligned with my face. I didn't see it till I was almost on top of it. Luckily I was going slow enough to stop in time. After that I started using my helmet light a little more.

    If you ride trails that are not used much the spiders can be a big problem. I'm still trying to figure out how they get their webs to span the distance between trees which at times can be quite wide. You really do have to marvel at nature sometimes. Spiders must have a brain the size of a pin head yet somehow they know how to build a web in a wide area and to catch prey. Simply amazing.

    On a side note; Something I've seen around this time of year that I wondered if anyone else has ever seen. I'm going to call it "floating leaf syndrome". It's when you see a leaf just hanging in the air and not moving. It is really spooky when viewed at night. What it actually is of course is a leaf that has somehow attached itself to a single strand of spider web. When viewed at night the strand of web is almost invisible. I've seen examples of this now on numerous occasions. If a wind is blowing the leaf will spin. Next time I see one I'll stop to take a photo.

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    In my mind a trail is a shaped path so maybe a shaped beam would be nice. My main interest in trying a build with XMLs and a reflector like the Saferide is to see how the "cutoff" works. Currently all my lights use a round reflector or optic. The resulting beam is a cone shape. When the beam is aimed to illuminate out to about 100 feet, there is a usable spill down to light closer in to the bike. An equal spill goes to the sides which is OK as long as it is not too bright. Last, there is spill upwards that, IMO, is pretty much wasted. I put a shroud on one of my earlier lights that had too wide a beam. It shielded the top entirely and about 50% of the sides. It worked to block that spill but though made of aluminum and polished it mostly blocked the light, instead of directing it forward. That's where the Saferide reflector intrigues me. Take the light that is wasted in side and upward spill and direct it forward. I only want to light up where I am going, not what is above or to the side of me. When I'm on tight twisty trail or switchbacks my helmet light is all I need to light up where I'm going to go. I may find that losing that upward spill might make low branches harder to see, but that's one of the things I want to test.
    still bad idea. reflector in SafeRide is not 100% efficient. light is lost in reflection. this is why optics are popular - they help you get high lumen numbers, albeit in a useless beam. but as we all know Lupine is junk so all they care about is pointless numbers, not whether the light is of any use or not.

    and reflectance efficiency depends on angle of incidence as well ...

    that's why the new IQ2 system by B&M uses a combination of optics and reflectors.

    hm ...

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    When mountain biking there are times when the upward spill of the lamp actually does something useful. If you are riding on trails that have roller-coaster sections ( short up/downs sections ) the upward spill helps see what's coming up just before you reach the bottom. Secondly it also helps with seeing the spider webs. For the last couple weeks the spiders where I live have been very active. Must be the season when they get busy. Just last week I was lucky enough to avoid one that was perfectly aligned with my face. I didn't see it till I was almost on top of it. Luckily I was going slow enough to stop in time. After that I started using my helmet light a little more.

    If you ride trails that are not used much the spiders can be a big problem. I'm still trying to figure out how they get their webs to span the distance between trees which at times can be quite wide. You really do have to marvel at nature sometimes. Spiders must have a brain the size of a pin head yet somehow they know how to build a web in a wide area and to catch prey. Simply amazing.

    On a side note; Something I've seen around this time of year that I wondered if anyone else has ever seen. I'm going to call it "floating leaf syndrome". It's when you see a leaf just hanging in the air and not moving. It is really spooky when viewed at night. What it actually is of course is a leaf that has somehow attached itself to a single strand of spider web. When viewed at night the strand of web is almost invisible. I've seen examples of this now on numerous occasions. If a wind is blowing the leaf will spin. Next time I see one I'll stop to take a photo.
    yeah forget it, the last thing i need is to be smacked in the face by some branch because my light was so efficient it only illuminated the ground ...
    Last edited by androgen; 09-15-2013 at 06:23 AM.

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Cat-man-do's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    5,202
    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    still bad idea. reflector in SafeRide is not 100% efficient. light is lost in reflection. this is why optics are popular - they help you get high lumen numbers, albeit in a useless beam. but as we all know Lupine is junk so all they care about is pointless numbers, not whether the light is of any use or not.
    ....
    to quote an ex-president, "There he goes again".

    This begs mentioning of the old proverb, "One mans trash is another mans treasure". It also begs a much newer expression that is much simpler and to the point; ....DUDE!

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    It looks like the new (?) Magicshine eagle has a similar design to the original post
    MAGICSHINE
    i saw that light - it isn't very similar. i would say there are 3 categories of lights with respect to beam pattern.

    1 - trash like Lupine and 99% of Chinese lights, which use generic beam patterns not optimized for biking. good for wasting money and blinding yourself while not actually being able to see anything.

    2 - lights that use some sort of gentle optimization by whatever means to slightly tailor the beam to biking needs such as L&M Seca, NiteRider Pro 3600 and 2200. these lights tend to actually be the best. they are bright and their beam is smooth and well placed. they tend to have a very bright hot spot and a wide cone of light and no sharp transition from hotspot to spill but rather a gradual one. as a result one Seca Lumen is worth approximately two Lupine lumens.

    3 - Lights where the beam is 100% shaped to exactly project only where necessary and nowhere else. these lights tend to be severely underpowered, only putting out about 50 to 500 lumens. their beams are OVER optimized to compensate for their extremely low output levels and as a result the beams have jagged edges and are in general not pretty. this category includes Philips Saferide, Dosun D1, D400 and D600, B&M Ixon IQ and Ixon IQ Speed.

    One SafeRide lumen is probably worth 4 Lupine Lumens. So a 300 Lumen SafeRide is about as good as a 1200 Lumen Piko when it comes to the road. however the problem here is that this only works when the light is precisely aimed at a straight road. and in practice this is hard to realize, so i don't recommend these types of lights except when you want minimize glare for others on the road.

    the lights to get are the 2nd category lights - the ones that intellignetly shape the beam, but not to excess, and not at the expense of lower outputs.

    that magicshine of yours looks like it would be somewhere in the 2nd category, but the problem is in the 2nd category there are lights with measured outputs in the 1,500 to 3,000 range, whereas 600 magicshine lumens is probably about 400 real world Lumens which is not much more than 300 real world lumens of SafeRide and SafeRide has much more aggressive beam shaping.

    as compared to the dosun, one of the main reasons i'm looking at it is the external battery, which this magicshine doesn't have.

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    120
    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    i know this isn't the DIY forum, but did many people modify their SafeRide ? i thought it was just Penthelman ? did you do the same upgrade as him or did you use your own design ? are there any detailed instructions on the net on how to do this ? or do you simply have to know how to design LED lights on your own ?
    I know of a few people who have modifed there Philips 80 Lux lights.
    Pethelmans modification is much more advanced then mine, I only replaced the LED driver.
    Its a simple and straightforward modification, read more about it here
    Name:  Philips_med_Lflex.jpg
Views: 1285
Size:  51.6 KB
    Philips LED bike light - Page 3
    Philips LED bike light - Page 3


    /Håkan
    SWEDEN

  38. #38
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    OK i see i'm probably going to skip this option though. Too much work.

    What's that timer in SafeRide you mentioned about 45 minutes or something like that - i never heard about that - what's the deal ?

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    120
    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    What's that timer in SafeRide you mentioned about 45 minutes or something like that - i never heard about that - what's the deal ?
    AFAIK there is no timer like that in the Gen2-version of the Philips-light.

    /Håkan
    SWEDEN

  40. #40
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by HakanC View Post
    AFAIK there is no timer like that in the Gen2-version of the Philips-light.

    /Håkan
    SWEDEN
    and how do i know which version i have ?

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    120
    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    and how do i know which version i have ?
    Perhaps You can take a look at the holder?
    Read more here: #26


    /Håkan
    SWEDEN

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by HakanC View Post
    Perhaps You can take a look at the holder?
    Read more here: #26

    /Håkan
    SWEDEN

    well then, i have the Generation 1. mine does not have the 3D mount.

    the holder is not the problem. it's the weight of the light that's the problem. the holder would work fine with any other light.

    Dosun weight = 90 gram
    Philips weight = 300 grams

    what do they expect ?

    ActiveRide is a step in the right direction, except for that idiotic dual beam design. Dosun D1 had that design back in 2009 and they discontinued it. Now Philips wants us to think it is a very clever innovation.

    B&M is doing it right with DayTime running lights on their IQ2. The Dosun dynamo version seems to have something similar to IQ2's daylight running lights. The Dosun also has the USB charging port like the top of the line B&M Luxos U.

    apparently the dosun has a screw:



    which can potentially allow you to use your own mount with it, and simply use that screw to screw it to your mount. i think that's a good option to have. with a Philips though that will not work because it is too heavy for ANY mount to hold it.

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    979

    No good

    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    that magicshine of yours looks like it would be somewhere in the 2nd category, but the problem is in the 2nd category there are lights with measured outputs in the 1,500 to 3,000 range, whereas 600 magicshine lumens is probably about 400 real world Lumens which is not much more than 300 real world lumens of SafeRide and SafeRide has much more aggressive beam shaping.

    as compared to the dosun, one of the main reasons i'm looking at it is the external battery, which this magicshine doesn't have.
    "That magicshine of yours" - what's that supposed to mean? I have no personal connection with magicshine. I was just posting something new that I thought might help you. I don't know why I bothered

    You need to get of your high horse.

    Maybe you haven't noticed, but those cheap Chinese light have ushered in a golden age of night riding. You no longer have to buy hundreds of dollars of lights just to go for a mtb ride on rough singletrack. You can buy 2 lights for $50 - $100 and have more light and longer lasting light than we could have ever dreamed of back in the halogen days. That's what half of the guys on the forum rode with and it was wicked fun. Not being able to see everything was half the fun and trying to interpret all the incoming visual information made you a better rider.

    You put two $400 1700 lumen lights on your helmet and you still don't think it's enough. Your categories are complete nonsense.

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    "That magicshine of yours" - what's that supposed to mean? I have no personal connection with magicshine. I was just posting something new that I thought might help you. I don't know why I bothered

    You need to get of your high horse.

    Maybe you haven't noticed, but those cheap Chinese light have ushered in a golden age of night riding. You no longer have to buy hundreds of dollars of lights just to go for a mtb ride on rough singletrack. You can buy 2 lights for $50 - $100 and have more light and longer lasting light than we could have ever dreamed of back in the halogen days. That's what half of the guys on the forum rode with and it was wicked fun. Not being able to see everything was half the fun and trying to interpret all the incoming visual information made you a better rider.

    You put two $400 1700 lumen lights on your helmet and you still don't think it's enough. Your categories are complete nonsense.
    thank you for that valuable insight lol.

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    well i got an email from the store saying it has shipped ! they gave me some kind of weird tracking system from taiwan but through it was able to get to USPS which shows the status as "Origin Post is Preparing Shipment"

    nice !

    a ship takes about 11-14 days from taiwan, customs take up to 5 days or so, which in my book adds up to 3 weeks, and if the ship is to West coast it may add another week for it to get to the East coast by truck. yet people ( i googled this ) say packages take from 2 days to 2 weeks to get to taiwan depending on shipment method. it doesn't make a lot of sense to me but time will tell.

    i have once ordered something from the UK via Fedex, but i don't think i even ordered from Asia and i don't know what shipping company they used.

    well, technically when i pre-ordered my iPad back in the day it was shipped to me directly from China, so perhaps i did order something from Asia but i don't know what shipping Apple used. it wasn't more than 2 weeks though in case of the iPad.

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    Oh wow the tracking says it has gone through JFK airport, so they actually shipped it by air. JFK Airport is just 15 miles from here. USPS tracking now says "Processed Through Sort Facility" ...

    well well well ...

    you know it's a bit weird it's the 20th and it already "Processed Through Sort Facility" at New York, NY on the 18th so logically it should have been delivered by now, but so far there is not even a delivery estimate.

    curious ...

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    well it is here !



    all in all from the date of the order it took 2 weeks to get to me in NYC from Taiwan.

    i ordered from this page:

    Dosun D400 lithium rechargeable front light

    i will do an unboxing video later. first i need to eat

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    979
    I don't think anyone needs an unboxing video. A couple of beamshots would be nice though.

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by varider View Post
    I don't think anyone needs an unboxing video. A couple of beamshots would be nice though.
    i guess that's why there are millions of unboxing videos on youtube - because nobody needs them.

    i'm not sure where you got the idea that i make my videos personally for you but i'm afraid that is not the case

    i have yet to do a video that people don't watch ...

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    902
    okay ...



    the unboxing video is up:



    i haven't actually tried the light yet because the battery is still charging ... the tiny AC adapter gets very hot !

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Cheap DIY 18650 Lithium Battery Charger
    By t0m in forum Lights DIY - Do It Yourself
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 01-16-2014, 06:34 PM
  2. Internal battery or external pack?
    By moldau94 in forum Lights and Night Riding
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-17-2013, 11:32 AM
  3. External Battery for GoPro Camera
    By Glynis27 in forum Lights DIY - Do It Yourself
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 07-28-2012, 06:41 PM
  4. Lithium Ion Battery Question (shelf life)
    By veteran_youth in forum Lights and Night Riding
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 11-17-2011, 03:00 AM
  5. what is best external battered powered light
    By bardynt in forum Lights and Night Riding
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-11-2011, 08:07 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •