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  1. #1
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    Dinotte 400R Daytime Red - AWESOME POWER !

    yes ladies and gentlemen ... it is here ! and i already tried it !

    i'm uploading an unboxing video as we speak. those who never had Dinotte before might find it interesting - otherwise it's the same as unboxing a regular 400R.

    but anyway, the Daytime Red blows the regular 400W away ! it appears to have AT LEAST double the output of 400R, and maybe three times as much !

    the beam is very similar - its a wide beam and has no hot spot at all - just like the 400R. but with Daytime Red the beam is both much brighter and much wider. Simply put at any given angle the Daytime Red puts down 2-3 times the light as compared to 400R.

    I'm a bit angry about the fact that Dinotte lied to me when i got my regular 400R. I would have probably gotten Daytime Red the first time ( it was already available when i got my 400R ) but i told Dinotte on the phone that i wanted wide beam and asked which one was wider - he said regular 400R was wider and i believed him. I even relayed his answer here on MTBR assuming it was the truth. But it was a lie - the Daytime Red is much wider ! He simply didn't want me to get Daytime Red because he knew i was going to use it at night and he thought it's too bright for night use so he lied to me in order to prevent me from getting the Daytime Red. He said it himself - he is afraid of getting sued if people use the Daytime Red at night - but to me that doesn't justify lying to your customers.

    Dinotte also told me that i should get XML-3 to replace my Seca 1700 because he said XML-3 outperforms Seca - what a joke ! It was clear from our conversation that he knew the Seca light very well - so he obviously knew the Seca blows his XML-3 away, but he still insisted that i must replace it with XML-3.

    I also got plenty of BS from him last year when i was returning my 300R to him for refund and he was making up fantastic excuses for why in fact 300R met my needs when i told him that it didn't. That guy is just terrible.

    He is very knowledgeable, but he just has no respect for the customer's intelligence - he will tell you whatever he feels he should say to get you to buy the light he wants you to buy regardless of whether it is true or not.

    I feel violated quite honestly. I paid $189 for regular 400R a few months ago believing that i'm getting the best light based on his advice. Having tried the Daytime Red now i see it's not even close. And the main reason i got the regular one is because HE TOLD ME that it had a wider beam, and he explained that Daytime Red has a narrower beam in order to be more visible in daylight - it sounded perfectly logical so i was sure it was true - but he just made it up ! and i wasted $189 !

    just terrible.

    again, the guy is very knowledgeable, and he's willing to talk to you and answer all your questions when you call - but don't lower your guard - keep in mind that even though he definitely knows his stuff what you hear may be pure fantasy.

    i should be getting my second NiteFlux Red Zone 8 by the end of the week, then i can set up my helmet lights and do a comparison between 400R and Daytime Red. the Daytime Red will be on seatpost and 400R on Helmet.

    i will say this however - he may be right about one thing - the Daytime Red may in fact be too bright ! it's a beast.

  2. #2
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    Let's see some vid and pics!

  3. #3
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    Two Red Zone 8's and two 400R's one even the daylight version. These paired with your Seccas and your bar light should make you visible from space. Congrats!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharddog03 View Post
    Let's see some vid and pics!
    here is the unboxing video. towards the end of the video i compare the 400R and Daytime Red light heads so you can see how they differ in appearance in the OFF state.

    i don't turn them on during the video.

    as i said i will do an outdoor demonstration after i get my NiteFlux later this week so i don't end up doing redundant videos.


  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusHQ View Post
    Two Red Zone 8's and two 400R's one even the daylight version. These paired with your Seccas and your bar light should make you visible from space. Congrats!
    yesterday i was riding in Brooklyn and a woman pulled up to me in her car and gave me a lecture about being blinded by my lights, and said that i should give them away to somebody. considering she was behind me i'm guessing she was referring to the 400R. but i think she simply had an attitude problem - she thought she is some kind of crusader on a mission to tell everybody how to live. her opinion frankly doesn't matter to me.

    i pass cops all the time here in NYC and so far none of them had anything to say about my lights - not a word.

    yesterday i passed two black female cops by the Brooklyn Bridge ( i think they were regulating traffic there, not sure ) and they covered their eyes with their hands to show that i was blinding them ( with the Secas ) - i quickly turned the lights away, but then they just laughed and smiled and didn't say anything.

    so i count this woman who gave me a lecture as being troubled. however, even though she herself was messed up i think the experience is still worthy of mentioning. 95% of the time the comments / reactions to my lights are positive, but there are also some people who don't look very happy about it, and there is also the occasional A-hole like the guy in an SUV who flashed his tactical flashlight into my eyes or that woman ( also in SUV ) who gave me a lecture, as if somehow i should put her convenience above my own safety - poor thing, she didn't like my lights - that's just too bad.

    that said, some people may have a personality where they don't like confrontation, and my guess is with Daytime Red you will almost certainly get it at some point if you use it at night.

  6. #6
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    2:56 "this is how much sh#t you get" LoL. Probably can get 100$ off if they didn't include all those mounts. Will it connect to a standard magicshine battery? Might have to pick one of these up. Thanks for the video.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharddog03 View Post
    2:56 "this is how much sh#t you get" LoL. Probably can get 100$ off if they didn't include all those mounts. Will it connect to a standard magicshine battery? Might have to pick one of these up. Thanks for the video.
    don't know about MagicShine battery. somebody else may know. you can order the light head without battery or charger but it is not that much cheaper.

    after watching the video i realized that actually i didn't notice one quick release mount - so a total of FOUR is included.

    i also figured out just now why they do it - it's so you can have the mounts installed on 4 different bikes and just swap the light between the bikes using quick release mechanism - that's the reason for all the duplicate mounts.

    i don't need this feature myself but it is actually a great feature for those who need it. it would be even more useful on a self-contained light like Dinotte 300R. of course the 300R has much lower power.

  8. #8
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    NYC is a whole other experience from where I ride in upstate NY (really upstate). There isn't much for other light sources to compete with here like you have so I get by with a lot less. I actually had someone get annoyed with my tail lights one time and they are only small self contained ones. A Cygolite Hotshot and a Serfas tl60 Shield that I think each put out 60 lumens. I've had people flash highbeams a few times at me with my front light, which I usually only have my bar light running on streets and at the 700 lumen setting. I'm happy to give them a dose of my helmet light if they act stupid and try to pull out in front of me or something.

    Years ago I actually had a Sheriff car pull over and come to a skidding halt on the side of the road when I approached. We were the only ones out there and where I was riding at the time I had just come off the trail onto the road and never encounter traffic there usually so I had my helmet and bar light on full power and I guess he didn't know what I was at first until I rode past. After his skidding stop I turned off my helmet light and he just watched until I passed. At that time I was running a Niterider Hid on the bars and my lupine Wilma on the helmet. This was in 2007 and at that time there weren't a whole lot of bright lights out there so mine were actually really kick butt.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusHQ View Post
    NYC is a whole other experience from where I ride in upstate NY (really upstate). There isn't much for other light sources to compete with here like you have so I get by with a lot less. I actually had someone get annoyed with my tail lights one time and they are only small self contained ones. A Cygolite Hotshot and a Serfas tl60 Shield that I think each put out 60 lumens. I've had people flash highbeams a few times at me with my front light, which I usually only have my bar light running on streets and at the 700 lumen setting. I'm happy to give them a dose of my helmet light if they act stupid and try to pull out in front of me or something.

    Years ago I actually had a Sheriff car pull over and come to a skidding halt on the side of the road when I approached. We were the only ones out there and where I was riding at the time I had just come off the trail onto the road and never encounter traffic there usually so I had my helmet and bar light on full power and I guess he didn't know what I was at first until I rode past. After his skidding stop I turned off my helmet light and he just watched until I passed. At that time I was running a Niterider Hid on the bars and my lupine Wilma on the helmet. This was in 2007 and at that time there weren't a whole lot of bright lights out there so mine were actually really kick butt.
    on a street like this:

    https://www.google.com/maps/preview#...e4sw!2e0&fid=5

    my headlights barely make any difference - i actually thought my headlights were malfunctioning, but then i realized that it was just the street lighting was that bright. from this particular point in google maps street view i just counted i would be directly lit by at least a dozen street lights at the same time.

    but it's not like i ride streets like that all the time. i ride a lot of service roads where the trees block most of the street lighting and it is quite dark.

    however i want my lights to still stand out even when i'm on a ridiculously well lit street like that.

    i prefer smaller streets for the most part as they get less car traffic, but if i am crossing a bad neighborhood i prefer a large well-lit street.

  10. #10
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    Androgen, I know this may not register correctly ( ) but just because you can't see your lights reflecting off the road etc does not mean that the people looking your way are not seeing you. It is a completely different perspective when you are NOT the person on the bike. Have you played the pedestrian or car driver role and have someone else ride your bike with the all lights going? You might be very surprised how much difference it appears to be when you are on the receiving end of your lights. I know you have the videos and all but it is not really the same as being there in the position of the pedestrian or driver actually looking at the lights as they approach or from afar. So even if the street is heavily light and you can't see your lights and thinking they are malfunctioning does not mean people don't see you. simple example even on that well lighted street you can still see headlight in a distance, right? That is because you are looking in that direction... the same applies to your lights.

    Are you making another video to demonstrate the differences in output and beam pattern of the 400R's?

    Thanks

  11. #11
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    Sounds like a good daytime light ,lol. I'm likely to get one eventually.

  12. #12
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    Did an indoor video demonstrating the Daytime Red along with regular 400R and a pair of NiteFlux Red Zone 8:


  13. #13
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    Nice video. I think you may be just about good in the light department now. About the only thing missing is an amber colored flasher for daytime like the ones I saw on the Dinotte site. Amber really shows up in the daytime, more so than white lights in the front so if you are looking for maximum visibility that is something to consider. I like the part of the video where you explain why you are closing your eyes lol.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusHQ View Post
    Nice video. I think you may be just about good in the light department now. About the only thing missing is an amber colored flasher for daytime like the ones I saw on the Dinotte site. Amber really shows up in the daytime, more so than white lights in the front so if you are looking for maximum visibility that is something to consider. I like the part of the video where you explain why you are closing your eyes lol.
    i do want that front blinky, but i'm borderline homeless here. so i don't think i will be getting it.

    i really don't understand the logic behind amber lights at all. Dinotte says they stand out more but i don't believe a single word Dinotte says any more. Dinotte just wants to comply with the law as much as possible - he is paranoid about getting sued - and amber is the most legal color for marker lights, so i'm pretty sure that is the real reason he uses amber.

    is there any non-Dinotte sourced evidence than amber actually stands out more ?

    and even if it did stand out more, i would rather get a multi-purpose ( white ) light that can be used as a blinky or as a normal light than something that can only be used as a blinky.

    i think the ideal light for this job would be NiteRider Pro 1800 set to Beacon mode. at night it could be angled lower so that it isn't super-blinding, and during the day it could be aimed higher for extra punch. and then if you wanted to hit some trails you could switch it to solid mode altogether and just use it as a normal light.

  15. #15
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    Thanks for the vid! What do you think of using two daytimes with one 4cell and using a y-split? Might pull the trigger.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gharddog03 View Post
    Thanks for the vid! What do you think of using two daytimes with one 4cell and using a y-split? Might pull the trigger.
    if one of them will be on you and another on the bike i don't think you will want them to be physically attached to each other.

    i like to make sure anything i wear on myself is not connected to anything on the bike and vice versa.

    i like the 4 cell for the frame. it is compact and lightweight.

    for the hydration pack you might want to go with 2 cell to save space / weight. and for when you need more run time you can get a second one. it will be easy to swap batteries in hydration pack. slightly harder to swap batteries on the frame IMO because they would need to be tightened - so on the frame i think 4 cell is better.

    also depending on what helmet you have you may not be able to install one on your helmet the way i did. you probably can install it on the helmet in one way or another but it may need to be a custom mount.

    you might also want to have some kind of polite light for MUPs and stuff. i switch to my bar end lights when i'm on MUP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    is there any non-Dinotte sourced evidence than amber actually stands out more ?
    Afaik from my very limited ophthalmology knowledge, yellow is the most perceived color during the day (when the human eye uses photopic vision), this however shifts to green during the night (during scotopic vision), but I'm afraid like you and Dinotte that it's not legal for road use.
    Anyway thanks for the video, now we're all waiting for a video comparison with the Designshine

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by purifier82 View Post
    now we're all waiting for a video comparison with the Designshine
    not going to happen, however Pethelman posted a beam shot comparison between DS500 and regular 400R :



    and i did a comparison between regular 400R and Daytime Red here, so between the two you can figure out what the difference between DS500 and DayTime red is.

    to me it seems that the sheer lumen advantage of DS500 would be small, but the beam pattern on DS500 is different. the DS500 beam is more advanced. and i believe ( althought don't quote me on this ) the DS500 also has much more flexible modes.

    all in all i think DS500 is a better light. but so what. a bird in hand is worth two in the bush

    also judging from the beam pattern on the DayTime red i think Dinotte was trying to copy the DS500 - as it seems to have more of a hot spot and also more spill as compared to regular 400R. so the DayTime red is sort of in-between 400R and DS500 i think.

    if Pethelman wants to send me a DS500 for review i would review it, however it isn't even clear to me whether Daytime Red will remain available once people start using it at night, and DS500 has never really been fully available at all ...

  19. #19
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    went out for a ride. had the Daytime Red on for about 2 hours total. nobody complained ( that i noticed anyway, i was listening to music ). it was between 2 AM and 5 AM at night and i went across brooklyn and a bit of manhattan.

    of course i was a little paranoid and when i saw cops i would turn off my brightest lights - Daytime Red and Secas. but there are so many cops in NYC it really is pointless - i probably passed 20 police cars on my ride. once you get to downtown brooklyn, or downtown manhattan its something like one police car per block almost.

    so far so good ...

    also operating 13 lights ( 4 on the bike, 4 on the wheels, and 5 on the helmet ) wasn't as hard as i imagined. i'm getting used to it. at first it seemed confusing and too much trouble but it's like tying shoelaces - once you get the hang of it - its easy.

  20. #20
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    Here is the new outdoor video with 2 X Dinotte + 2 X Niteflux.


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    Here is the new outdoor video with 2 X Dinotte + 2 X Niteflux.

    Sweet!!!!!! I need to get two 400 daytimes. Those secas are blinding but look awesome. Thanks for the vid.

  22. #22
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    so what i'm thinking regarding all this is that Daytime Red is a solid upgrade over the regular 400R, but more importantly 400R is a huge upgrade over the NiteFlux as a helmet tail light IMO.

    things do not look good for NiteFlux on the other hand. i think as a seat post tail light it is just about worthless. as a helmet tail light it's OK. but i think it is better suited for helmet side lighting the way it is set up now.

    monkeylectric i think is totally underrated. i would put it in the same class as DayTime Red and L&M Seca in terms of awesomeness. super visible with super battery life.

    the NiteFlux i think has to be considered a 2nd tier light on the other hand, except for specialty applications like maybe jogging.

  23. #23
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    Agreed. The niteflux are extra weight when you have the dinotte's.

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