Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,631

    Dinotte 300R vs Niteflux Red Zone 8

    I've been using a Dinotte 300R for the last several years. Outstanding light. I am running into a bit of a mounting problem with a bag in the way of the 300R. I'm thinking of a different solution and wondering if anyone has any experience between with both the 300R and the Red Zone 8. Is the RZ8 brighter/more noticeable than the 300R?

    J.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: d365's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,340
    I thought this was going to be another androgen thread......

    can you clip it on the bag? seat bag? mine has a loop for such.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,631
    Quote Originally Posted by d365 View Post
    I thought this was going to be another androgen thread......

    can you clip it on the bag? seat bag? mine has a loop for such.
    Nope. I limit myself to two lights - headlight and taillight.

    The 300R doesn't have the ability mount to anything except it's mount. It can't clip onto a loop. That's ok because it does have somewhat of a directed beam and it wouldn't be useful if it were tipped too much.

    That's why the Nightzone 8 is attractive. It has an extremely wide mounting range because it really doesn't have a beam or lens.

    But all that said, the 400R gets huge driver respect where drivers slow down and go way wide of me and I don't want to lose that - I want more than I have now. So I need another photon bomb and it looks like the RZ8 is the other candidate.

    J.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Cat-man-do's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    3,905
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    I've been using a Dinotte 300R for the last several years. Outstanding light. I am running into a bit of a mounting problem with a bag in the way of the 300R. I'm thinking of a different solution and wondering if anyone has any experience between with both the 300R and the Red Zone 8. Is the RZ8 brighter/more noticeable than the 300R?

    J.
    I guess it depends on how bad you want to run the 300R. If it were me I'd ditch the seat bag and carry the bike gear in something else. Personally I use a small fanny pack. I'd use a seat bag but I have a torch mounted to one of my seat rails so I can't use a seat bag. The fanny pack works and will hold more gear than the seat bag anyway. With cooler weather coming I'll need to carry more clothing on my road rides. I have a second bigger fanny pack that is more geared towards touring. Big enough to hold leg warmers ( or tights ), shell jacket and other needed gear. Nothing worse than being on a road ride and not having enough clothing to keep you warm. I hate being cold.

    Option #2: Ditch the seat bag and buy another bag for the frame. Many options for frame bags but I like these myself. I just noticed ( while on the subject of seat bags ) that my mid-size Blackburn seat bag ( that I no longer use ) looks like it will fit between the rear wheel and the seat tube. Interesting. If I can find a way to keep it from rotating or sliding down it might work.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mtbRevolution's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    347
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    I guess it depends on how bad you want to run the 300R. If it were me I'd ditch the seat bag and carry the bike gear in something else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cat-man-do View Post
    seat bag ( that I no longer use ) looks like it will fit between the rear wheel and the seat tube. Interesting. If I can find a way to keep it from rotating or sliding down it might work.
    Use battery neoprene pouches with long elastic straps. Remove battery and shove in your chain tool, CO2 cartridges, tyre levers, emergency $$ etc. Not enough space? Add more. The elasticity of the pouch and strap with keep as many items in. The one piece velcro strap will squeeze in contents and have the pouch and contents hugging the frame. You can place it on the seat tube between the stays or anywhere on the frame and won't rotate or slide easily. If it does cut open an old inner tube and use it between the frame and pouch. There's nothing more annoying than noisy toolbag contents especially when you're trying to enjoy nature.
    Leonard - All things Xeccon + Beyond
    mtbRevolution.com

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,631
    This won't work, the Dinotte 300R is a fantastic light, but it has to be mounted in very specific ways - it has to be vertically mounted and it's largely constrained to the seat post. In other words, there is no real way to mount it to a bag or anything like that. I have a need to be able to have a rack trunk (small) and it obscures the Dinotte. So I either need to (1) get a different light or to (2) buy a new rack trunk and a new light.

    J.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    901
    although i don't have the 300R right now, i can almost certainly say that RZ8 will NOT be brighter than 300R. i tested my 400R directly against RZ8 by aiming both at a dark closet across the room and they're not even close - even though RZ8 is supposed to have more lumens on paper the focused beam of 400R is just many times brighter at the center.

    you're supposed to be able to mount the 300R / 400R on seat stay, although i'm not how that would work in practice, but you could try.

    with the seat stay the tire might block the light for certain angles, but usually the cars are to your left so if you mount it on your left side it should cover most scenarios.

    it certainly wouldn't hurt your visibility if you also mounted an RZ8 on the back of the helmet.

    the RZ8 is visible ENOUGH but it is not blinding like 400R. when aimed straight the 400R is in a completely different class than RZ8.

    but as i said, the RZ8 is ENOUGH. it is very conspicuous. but the RZ8 level of conspicuity is more like regular car tail lights, whereas 400R is more like police car emergency lights.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,631
    I do have a 400R ( or at least, my son has it now at college) and I'd estimate that it is not much different from a 300R - the 300R is not as bright but the difference is not huge.

    I had looked at mounting it on the seat stay, but I run into the same problem there if I have panniers on the bike (which I do often). Same problem again.

    On the bike with a rack, I might be able to devise something to mount to the rack. On the bike without where I'd like to use a seat post rack on occasion or a seat pack like the revelate designs pika, then I need something else. This is where the RZ8 is interesting, it could be mounted on the back of the pack and mounting angle does not matter much. That said, if what you say about the 300R is true, I'd hate to give it up. It's a huge safety advantage for night riding on the road.

    J.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    901
    well on my YouTube channel:

    https://www.youtube.com/user/UnapologeticGeek

    i have 3 videos where you can look at the difference between 400R and RZ8, namely this one:



    this:

    Bike Lights Night Demo - YouTube

    and this:

    Bike Lights Beam Pattern Demo - YouTube

    i think between these 3 videos the difference should be clear.

    the third video demonstrates the beam patterns ( and relative brightness ) projected on a white wall.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,631
    Thanks - those are helpful.

    Looks to me like the RZ8 and the Dinotte 400R are about the same in terms of visibility (give or take) but the RZ8 has better visibility angles and better mounting options. The Dinotte is much better when in the +/-30 degree from line of travel.

    That sound about right.

    J.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pigmode's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    222
    The RZ8 is close to the 300R in brightness but the main difference is bloom. In that respect the Dinotte's are much more visible, safer. The Dinotte's always on pulse mode is just superior.


    I like the RZ8 but it's a simplistic design, without reflectors or proper lenses other than the opaque rubber caps. Alternate means for mounting are up to the buyers ingenuity.

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pigmode's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    222
    Oh yeah, pics....

    As can be seen, I usually have the Dinotte turned a bit to the left.



    IMG_0479 by pigmode, on Flickr


    IMG_0474 by pigmode, on Flickr


    IMG_0472 by pigmode, on Flickr

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,631
    That's how I've mounted my 300R too. The problem is that when I ride during the fall, I often need to either stash or get a jacket out of a rack trunk. It's just a lot more comfortable than freezing or roasting for portions of my ride. On my road bike, a 2007 Lemond Versailles, I don't really have the option of mounting the 300R on the seat stays since the portion from the brake bolt to the top tube is a solid monoque of CF (solid in that there the space between the stays is filled up). That puts the 300R down on one side or the other which I'd rather not do.

    If I carry a rack trunk (or a seat bag like the Relevate Designs bags), then it gets in the way. The RZ8 could be easily attached to the bag, then I'd be ok with the 300R on the seat stays and I'd probably have better coverage than I do today.

    Pigmode - that's an awesome taillight set up. I'd have to guess you get some serious respect when out on the road with that set up. True?

    J.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: androgen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    901
    on steady NiteFlux is rated at 120 lumens for 3 hours on 1 cell. Dinotte 400R is rated for 240 lumens for 2.5 hours on 2 cell. so on steady - Dinotte 400R is essentially like a pair of RZ8 - double the brightness, double the battery, same run time.

    however on pulse the RZ8 goes from 120 to 400 lumens, and the run time goes form 3 to 4 hours.

    dinotte on pulse remains 240 lumens and run time goes form 2.5 to 6 hours.

    so if you do the math dinotte has a duty cycle of ( 240 * 2.5 ) / ( 240 * 6 ) = 42% while niteflux has a duty cycle of ( 120 * 3 ) / ( 400 * 4 ) = 23%.

    in other words 400R in pulse burst runs at 240 lumens and 42% duty cycle, with an average output level of 100 lumens. and RZ8 runs at 400 lumens and 23% duty cycle with an average output of 90 lumens.

    both flash patterns are effective. i would say, if the beam patterns were identical based on output and flash pattern alone the two lights would be equally effective.

    of course with only 4 hours of run time you might have to reduce the output on the RZ8 for longer rides. with 400R the run time is 6 hours which should be enough, and if it's not there is a 4 cell battery for 12 hours.

    but assuming run time is not an issue the main difference between the lights it the beam pattern. the 400R has approximately 50 degree beam and RZ8 has approximately 120 degree beam. this means that on-axis the 400R will be about 5 times brighter than RZ8.

    the ~ 45 degree is just about perfect as a tail light. on the other hand the 120 degree beam is better suited for specialty applications, such as helmet mounting.

    i will note that 120 degree beam is ideally suited for side lighting ( provided you also have front and rear lighting ). for side lighting 120 degree beam is exactly what the doctor ordered. of course you need two 120 degree lights - one on each side. which is why i'm looking at two RZ8s on each side of the helmet, plus a 400R at the back of the helmet, and a 400R Daytime Red on the seatpost.

    i've removed you from the ignore list for now, subject to continued good behavior. consider yourself on parole !

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pigmode's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    222
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Pigmode - that's an awesome taillight set up. I'd have to guess you get some serious respect when out on the road with that set up. True?

    J.

    J, I haven't used the 300R/RZ8 combo that extensively, but from what I've seen it has great presence on the road at night. I tend to grab either or for most rides when I need rear lighting, and use the combo for certain occasions, like night time road climbs through dark roads with light canopy etc.

    I bought my RZ8 during the intro special, and am less enamored with the current pricing. Still it has good performance and a unique form factor that is pretty adaptable. Am pretty happy I have it as an option.

    I have had to use the 300R on a seatstay mount, and while it does tweak ones desire for symmetry, you get used to it. Its like running one pannier on the rear.



    pali_dinotte300Rb by pigmode, on Flickr

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,631
    Again, thanks for the pictures. Excellent to hear and it's what I expected in practice.

    Having top end taillights is, I think, worth more in safety than what you have on the front. Just having cars give me room and be careful is a huge advantage.


    J.

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,631
    Androgen, here's where your analysis goes astray: The duty cycle doesn't count for brightness. The blink period/on period is long enough that it gets to full brightness for a human retina. It's not like it's being run at 60hz or something like that. So in blink mode, it will register as a 400 lumen blinking light (400 lumens on, 400 lumens then shut off) not as 200 lumens if it were run at a 50% duty cycle at 60hz (for example).

    The difference is in lumens vs lux. Lumens are raw photons out and lux are photons per unit area. Because the two lights have different beam widths, with the RZ8 being more than twice as wide, the photons per angular area would be about half the Dinotte (more specifically 50/120) presuming they have the same beam characteristics in the vertical dimension (they don't, but for purposes of discussion).

    So I'd guess that the RZ8 probably looks like more like a 140R than a 300R in terms of intensity of the bloom. But looking directly at the LED it will appear brighter (maybe not, now that I think about it).

    J.

Similar Threads

  1. NiteFlux Red Zone 8
    By pigmode in forum Lights and Night Riding
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 10-20-2014, 09:17 AM
  2. so Dinotte has a tail light 3X brigther than the 300R ...
    By androgen in forum Lights and Night Riding
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 10-13-2013, 09:11 AM
  3. any alternatives to NiteFlux Red Zone 8 ?
    By androgen in forum Lights and Night Riding
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-15-2013, 09:38 AM
  4. Niteflux Red Zone 4 or VIS 180?
    By maximumsport in forum Lights and Night Riding
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 07-16-2012, 10:38 PM
  5. My Niteflux rebuild
    By uncle_bob in forum Lights DIY - Do It Yourself
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-12-2011, 09:10 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •