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  1. #51
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    I have to say, Chromagftw, I agree that two of those babies would rock!

    Last night when I was riding on the trail - and keep in mind it's 2:30 am and I'm alone by the river, and I'm a woman. A big and strong woman that has punched sexual harassers in the face more than once, but still a woman. So I'm riding on that trail and I see something in front of me. Looks like some guy doing something weird. But what??!! F****!

    I had my DS on. I punched the button on the BR IV and now I suddenly had 2500 lumens! And I could clearly see that the guy was just fixing his bike.

    It really is cool to have that many lumens. I loved it. But the DS and the BR IV and two batteries on my handlebars... that's just too much of a mess. Way too much.

    Now, if I had some extra money burning a hole in my pocket, I'd get another DS-1300 and power the two lights from a single water bottle battery. Now that would be a cool setup.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chromagftw View Post
    Stephen, its a great offering you have there. I agree with the triple for the XPE and a triple for the XPG with either a narrow or medium frosted lens - especially if bar mounting was the case. I can imagine you are pretty swamped with other commitments right now but it would be great to see the medium frosted and wide frosted comparison.

    The double DS-1300 beam shot does not strike me as overkill by the way. I've always run 2 identical lights on the bars on either side of the stem (coupled with a throw light of some sort on the helmet) and have never been disappointed. Durability and long term reliability aside, i think with 3 DS-1300 --> 2 on the bars and 1 on the lid, matted with the appropriate optics in each, one would have all the bases covered. You might not need it an every application such as tight winding single track but its there for the using when warranted!
    Holy beam-patterns Batman...
    I really couldn't imagine having THAT much light on the trail at night. Talk about riding in daylight.

    But you may have inspired me to try it. I just "happen" to have three of those things laying around.

    Time to break out the test rig and take some more beam shots! With a QUAD triple on the handlebars, I'd be temped to run Elliptical, Medium Frost, Narrow Frost, Spot.

    You really do take a pretty big efficiency hit on the wide angle frosted, but I'll try a shot with it just so we can see how it looks. I like the way you guys think!

  3. #53
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    Better yet, Pethelman, send those lights over to me and I'll do the that tedious testing for you.

  4. #54
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    from Adelaide...

    Quote Originally Posted by OldAusDigger View Post
    I'm in Sydney, which is about 1000 miles from Adelaide..
    Hi Digger,

    Greetings from Adelaide. As soon as I get my DS lights I'll try to take some pics out in the street and would be happy to post them somewhere. These will be a big change for me as I've been 'dynamo only' for the last decade or so! Sydney is a long way from Adelaide init!

    regards,

    Sam.

  5. #55
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    Very informative thread !
    2012 Cannondale Trail SL 29ER 4

    1994 Cannondale Super V 1000

    1996 Cannondale F500 rigid-fork 69'er

    Motiv 26'er

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by savvas View Post
    Hi Digger,

    Greetings from Adelaide. As soon as I get my DS lights I'll try to take some pics out in the street and would be happy to post them somewhere. These will be a big change for me as I've been 'dynamo only' for the last decade or so! Sydney is a long way from Adelaide init!

    regards,

    Sam.
    Thanks mate, that's very kind of you. I'll send you a PM with my mail address.
    Yeah, Adelaide would be a fair drive. I was just guessing the distance though, having never driven there. When I was in the army, we flew to RAAF Edinburgh a few times, and did some pre-deployment traing at Cultana, but I've never really visited Adelaide properly though.
    When you get your DS tail light, how bright do you intend to run it at night? I would imagine it would have to be well under 50% so you don't piss off everyone else, or you might even get pulled over by the cops.

  7. #57
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by OldAusDigger View Post
    ...Yeah, Adelaide would be a fair drive....

    When you get your DS tail light, how bright do you intend to run it at night? I would imagine it would have to be well under 50% so you don't piss off everyone else, or you might even get pulled over by the cops....
    Off topic I know, but I'm often amused by what seems to be misunderstanding of those outside of Oz about how 'big' Australia is. I know that the USA is a similar overall size to Oz but we only have a population about the same size as that of greater Los Angeles! I mean no disrespect of course to Mr Pethelman, but I imagine there's a lot of difference between long distance driving in the USA and here. I've travelled Australia quite a bit and it's something that you start to take for granted.

    Driving the 1400 or so km from Sydney to Adelaide you can pass through only a half dozen towns of any size. Most settlements will be not much more that a petrol pump and maybe a small supermarket and sports ground. In the USA you'd likely (especially towards the East coast) drive through linear suburbs extending for 100s of km. My brother lives in Perth which is some 2700km away with maybe 3 substantial towns and a heap of desert along the way. Lots of bike tourists have underestimated what that really means...

    Back on topic, as regards riding at night, the setting will depend entirely on how p---ed off I am with car/bus/truck drivers on any one particular day ;-). No seriously - while I intend taking Steve's advice about the blinding potential of these lights, especially at night - I also intend using them to make my presence as a road-user felt! That's basically my whole reason for investing in them. I've been a dynamo user for years and will continue to be. I've also used the PBSF and whatever else I can get my hands on to signal my presence.

    But I'm a commuter-rider only, usually in early morning or at dusk, and always traveling East-West-East. I never get out onto rural roads where drivers usually have plenty of time to size your presence up and I often ride at times when bike lights have to compete with the riding & setting sun, with hangovers and work exhaustion and with commercial drivers starting work. I am heartily sick of 4WDs and commercial vehicles driving across my path to enter slip lanes, cars zooming out at T-junctions without noticing me and buses trying to squeeze between me and right-turning cars at the lights.

    I want to be seen and I want drivers to think of me as a Mack truck coming their way or riding alongside them! While I will do my best to avoid excessive glare, p---ing anyone off is my least concern I'm afraid. And I imagine and home that the local police (many of whom are bike riders themselves) will be in awe!

    Sam.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by savvas View Post

    I want to be seen and I want drivers to think of me as a Mack truck coming their way or riding alongside them! While I will do my best to avoid excessive glare, p---ing anyone off is my least concern I'm afraid. And I imagine and home that the local police (many of whom are bike riders themselves) will be in awe!

    Sam.
    Well the DS-500 looks like the light for the job! The build quality looks to be first rate as well. Seeing that you already have a dyno hub, check out the Aussie made K-Lite Red also. I know you've already made a substantial investment in a hand made quality product. But if you've got some money to spare, I imagine combining a mega lumen battery powered tail light with a dyno one that isn't that far behind in terms of brightness (steady mode only though for dyno lights), will give you a 700 plus lumen tail light combo with built in redundancy.
    That should be brighter than a Mack truck!

    K-lite RED rear LED tail light
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...LED-tail-light

  9. #59
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    At night both the DS-500 and the DiNotte 400R are about equivalent since you have to run the DS-500 in a lower power setting.

    But where the DS-500 has a big advantage is side visibility. It didn't look like much of an advantage at day. But at night, it was like "WOW!!!"

    That K-Lite Red, as far as I can tell (and I could be wrong), has exactly zero side visibility. Anybody can take a front light, slap on a red lens, and turn it into a taillight. But that doesn't make it a good taillight.

  10. #60
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    BTW, the DS-1300 front light also has side markers. Some black tape is included so you can cover them if they bother you.

    They didn't bother me at night, and the added safely is certainly welcome.

    But there's something else. That light on the side can be used to illuminate a computer. I'd just have to carefully position the light and my powertap computer and I could see my watts when I train at night.

  11. #61
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    Hey Guys,


    Just throwing out some info here .... I will be getting Peth's helmet mount tomorrow (assuming the UPS plane doesn't fall out of the sky tonite).


    By the end of the week I should have some preliminary pictures and reviews up for the MTBR crowd.


    I will be swapping some lenses around and reporting back to Peth so he can put the information to good use. Of course, everyone here will be able to read the reviews as they go. I will also be taking pictures of the the multiple beam patterns & intensities in order to provide information. My goal is to try to take some "on the trail" shots rather than "in the back yard" in order to present a realistic picture of what this light is doing.


    Please take note that it will take a few months in order to give a comprehensive review and additional pictures. Not exactly dark "early" yet.




    Peth .. your wafer thin silicon gasket idea is really good! I will still have my local machinist friend look at how an o-ring gasket can be incorporated for the lens. But your solution sounds much easier.




    Matt ... you are correct about beam pattern being subjective. And I understand/agree that a smooth transition is nice. But if you're bumping your way thru the woods at night, I doubt there is any chance you'll even notice the semi-abrupt transition in pattern. I do not have, nor am I buying a vid camera for everyone's enjoyment.




    I'll keep everyone posted here and in my appropriate thread.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azra View Post
    At night both the DS-500 and the DiNotte 400R are about equivalent since you have to run the DS-500 in a lower power setting.

    But where the DS-500 has a big advantage is side visibility. It didn't look like much of an advantage at day. But at night, it was like "WOW!!!"

    That K-Lite Red, as far as I can tell (and I could be wrong), has exactly zero side visibility. Anybody can take a front light, slap on a red lens, and turn it into a taillight. But that doesn't make it a good taillight.
    Azra, you are correct about the K-LIite, but I still think it would be a very useful "back up" tail light to the DS-500 for those who happen to be running a dyno lighting system. When I commute to work, I always run 3 tail lights in case of failures. Although I've yet to see either the K-Lite or DS-500 in person, I've come to the conclusion (based purely on what I've seen & read on the net) that the DS-500 is most likely the best bicycle tail light on the planet. All it needs now is to show it's reliable & robust to fully de-throne the Dinotte.

  13. #63
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    Hey Azra ...


    Any way to convince you to sell your "old" lights?

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldAusDigger View Post
    I always run 3 tail lights in case of failures.
    Geez! What unreliable lights are you using?

    I've used the DiNotte 400R for many years, day and night. It never let me down.

    First impression with the DS-500 is good. On the outside, the lens may be a bit more exposed than on the 400R, but otherwise it looks pretty sold. Maybe less resistant to scratches, tho. Inside, I trust Mr. Pethelman built it carefully and well. I've seen plenty of evidence that he does pay a lot of attention to details. I have no qualms using that taillight without a backup.
    Last edited by Azra; 08-01-2011 at 03:52 AM.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailBound29er View Post
    Hey Azra ...

    Any way to convince you to sell your "old" lights?
    Sure. Twist my arm while waving some gold, a Pinarello Dogma, and a Di2 groupset in front of me... or just PM me.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azra View Post
    Sure. Twist my arm while waving some gold, a Pinarello Dogma, and a Di2 groupset in front of me... or just PM me.

    I tried that ... you do not have the PM feature operational on your account. Only the "leave visitor message"


    Hence me having to dangle a Colnago CLX 2.0 in front of you.

  17. #67
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    Azra,

    Do you have any pictures of the DS-500 on your bike ?

  18. #68
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    [QUOTE=Azra;8298480]Geez! What unreliable lights are you using?

    1 x Radbot 1000 and 2 x PBSF (1/2 watt version).
    Links for the 1% of riders who don't know these 2 lights -

    http://www.ridepdw.com/goods/lights/...%E2%84%A2-1000
    http://ecom1.planetbike.com/3034.html

    When I say "failures" I'm mainly refering to batteries running flat.
    Plus I consider the combination of those 3 to be barely adequate for night time commuting and utterly useless for daylight commuting.
    I'm not a serious commuter, I'll ride to work 6 or 7 times per month. I much prefer off road riding. But I work at one of Australia's biggest commercial ports, and the roads I take (often around 3am) are full of 60 plus tonne B-Double trucks and I really, really want to make sure they see me!
    If I had a secret stash of money I'd buy a DS-500 right now. But my wife still hasn't calmed down since I spent over a thousand bucks on my front lights. It'll be instant "divorce-ville" if she found out I'd spent another $200
    I'm well and truly sorted for front lights (2 x Nightlightning IBlaast 9's on the bars and 1 x Gilli 6 helmet mounted = 8000 plus lumens), which is why I'm mainly interested in Design Shines tail light.
    When you look at the two offerings from this company (front vs rear lights), both appear to be of very high quality, and I think reasonably priced. But in the context of which one represents the biggest leap forward in their respective places in the bicycle light market, the DS-500 wins hands down!

  19. #69
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    Waiting for UPS here ..... hurry up dammit !




    OldAus ... try blackmail. Take some pics of her and threaten to release them on the net if she doesn't let you get the tail lights. If she resists ... sell them and use that money to buy the lights.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailBound29er View Post
    Matt ... you are correct about beam pattern being subjective. And I understand/agree that a smooth transition is nice. But if you're bumping your way thru the woods at night, I doubt there is any chance you'll even notice the semi-abrupt transition in pattern.
    I have noticed this on my DIY helmet light which have Regina reflectors (wide-ish spot, spill at ~1/2-1/3 of the intensity, similar to a MS beam with out the dark ring off-spot), where your eyes adjust to the brightness of the spot, then struggle to see something just outside it. It's not that much of an issue on a helmet light, as you just move your head slightly, but I wouldn't want it on my bars, hence the optics in that light.

    Again, I ride fairly open but extremely rocky singletrack where I'm looking at stuff from 2ft to 50ft away. If I rode very tight densely wooded singletrack, it wouldn't be as much of an issue. So, in addition to personal opinion, there's also riding conditions to consider

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by suba View Post
    Azra,

    Do you have any pictures of the DS-500 on your bike ?
    Until Azra has a chance to respond, I thought I could add a pic or two here.

    I really do like the way the mounting arrangement turned out. Very solid, with easy quick release.
    The seat post as well as either side of the seat stays is an option. Although the picture shows the light above the brakes, you can just as easily mount it below the brakes on the seat stay and the side emitted light will shoot through the spokes at night. Easy to lock down the aiming with a single 5/64" Allan.

    Note that on the seat post option, the extender bar does have to be angle down like you see in the pic.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DesignShine... WOW!-ds500_mount_right_side.jpg  

    Attached Images Attached Images  

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrailBound29er View Post
    Waiting for UPS here ..... hurry up dammit !




    OldAus ... try blackmail. Take some pics of her and threaten to release them on the net if she doesn't let you get the tail lights. If she resists ... sell them and use that money to buy the lights.
    Ha ha ha..... if only it were that easy
    In my former life I used to think of myself as a hard bastard . I've served my country in Somalia, Timor, Soloman Islands & Afghanistan where there were plenty of nasty people hell bent on trying to hurt me. But now.... I've got nothing Cause thesedays NOBODY scares me more than my wife!!!

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldAusDigger View Post
    Ha ha ha..... if only it were that easy
    In my former life I used to think of myself as a hard bastard . I've served my country in Somalia, Timor, Soloman Islands & Afghanistan where there were plenty of nasty people hell bent on trying to hurt me. But now.... I've got nothing Cause thesedays NOBODY scares me more than my wife!!!
    A wise person once told me it is much easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission when it comes to purchasing bike stuff. Luckily I have a very forgiving wife Hopefully this will be the case if I end up purchase one of these lights.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattthemuppet View Post
    I have noticed this on my DIY helmet light which have Regina reflectors (wide-ish spot, spill at ~1/2-1/3 of the intensity, similar to a MS beam with out the dark ring off-spot), where your eyes adjust to the brightness of the spot, then struggle to see something just outside it. It's not that much of an issue on a helmet light, as you just move your head slightly, but I wouldn't want it on my bars, hence the optics in that light.

    Again, I ride fairly open but extremely rocky singletrack where I'm looking at stuff from 2ft to 50ft away. If I rode very tight densely wooded singletrack, it wouldn't be as much of an issue. So, in addition to personal opinion, there's also riding conditions to consider
    Matt and TrailBound... you guys are hitting it exactly. The beam pattern vs. light intensity vs. riding conditions vs. speed all add up to make it virtually impossible to have a "one best solution." I'm finding that for every different combination of the above conditions, there are pros and cons to just about every headlight setup. Some more than others obviously, but my experience on the road has been similar to what Matt describes. If I run with too much intensity, then my eyes get conditioned to that brightness, making peripheral distinctions more difficult. However, if I take the light down a notch or two in brightness, I find that my eyes adjust AND I have better peripheral vision with no perceived penalty in throw.

    This seems to be a very true statement:
    There is a BIG difference between standing back and scrutinizing a beam pattern while not moving (especially when viewing beamshot pictures), compared to actually riding with the light.

    I went out and road for an hour at night (road use only) with the DS-1300 swapping out between various combinations of lenses. In every case the XPE triple was using a pure spot, but for the XPG, I tried the pure spot, narrow frosted, and medium frosted lenses, all with the lights on the bar. (The game changes AGAIN if you mount the light on the helmet. I'm going to let TrailBound handle that one...)

    Here are some impressions from that ride:
    1. No matter what lens combination I used, the light was extremely effective at illuminating the road for me, even down at level 3 (630 lumens). I never found a combination that was bad, by any means. Differences yes, but all completely rideable. I couldn't out-run any combination, even on fast down hill (<30mph), but when you're really getting on it down a hill, level 5 just gives you that extra confidence.

    2. It's a tough call deciding which power level to use. To my eyes, the 630 lumen level is just about perfect with the spot-spot combination for most pavement. If you hit some freshly paved, very black pavement, then it's nice to have the extra power levels. The darker band around the main beam is very subtle (looks much worse in the beam shots than it really is) for the spot-spot combo and unless you are intentionally looking for it, you soon don't even notice it. On the road, you do get slighter better distance performance with the dual spot, and I do mean slightly.

    3. I can see how the triple mode of operation may be better than the five-level (multi-mode) mainly due to the mechanics of dimming the light. In the triple mode (low-med-high), clicking the button just cycles between the three levels. So if you're at high (L5), then it's nice just to do a single click to dim for oncoming motorists, rather than a press-and-hold.

    4. During the course of the hour ride, I got treated like a motorized vehicle at every single encounter with a car. I never approached a car at more than level 3, and never got bright lighted. At least 5 or 6 times, I had cars waiting to turn left in front of me while I was still 100 yards away. They would always just sit there for the entire time that it took me to close the gap, and wait till I had passed to turn left. Same story with cars pulling out from side streets. Cars from behind were giving me the entire lane on two-lane roads when passing.

    At the end of it all, I have a very hard time deciding which lens combination I like best. A agree with Azra that the spot-spot combo may be best for pure road riding, but then again, I have a hard time finding any fault with the spot-narrrow-frosted combo. I would say that I think the medium frosted maybe just goes a bit too far for pure roadies mounted on the bar, but on the helmet, that medium-frosted combo ROCKS! I still get a silly grin on my face every time I try it.

    I plan on uploading the high-res versions of all the new beam shots on the DesignShine website "beamshot" page, but until that happens, I put together a video slide show that you can view here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP8hD_OU6_w

    Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to annotate the video yet, but eventually I'll have the particular lens combos and mounting location called out for each shot. The camera was mounted in the same relative location as your eyes would normally be while riding. The bottom most edge of each picture is only about 2 feet away from the front wheel. The first cone is 25 feet away from the lights, and each subsequent cone is 25 ft apart. Last cone at 125ft.

    Last three slides are just for fun... 2600 lumens, 3900 lumens, and 5200 lumens (call the fire department).

  25. #75
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    Stephen, nice vid!

    Either your neighbors are oblivious to what goes on outside their doors OR they are very understanding. Break out the shades!

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