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CRAZY - seems like Tesla has been ripped off :)

53K views 342 replies 110 participants last post by  Purt 
#1 ·
#3 ·
Very interesting.

I believe the bar mount is built into the light and works with the two o-rings they supply.

More evidence that we are on the cusp of bike LED lighting getting way bright and dropping dramatically in cost. This sort of thing is going to put a lot of downward pressure on companies like Lupine.

At that price, it's almost worth buying just to try it out.

J.
 
#8 ·
About time this light appeared. Same as the Airbike in spec and I bet it runs much the same, Lupine style mount.

Less than $80 for a P7 'C' bin. I am getting two for my bars NOW.

About time we didn't have to pay for all the middle-men and even if the quality is low - so what. What is the lifespan of a light system anyway - given how fast tech changes. I have a box of high quality, expensive, REDUNDANT, brand name lights.

Can't wait to see beam shots.

Hurrar for this!!
 
#9 ·
Coldass said:
About time this light appeared. Same as the Airbike in spec and I bet it runs much the same, Lupine style mount.

Less than $80 for a P7 'C' bin. I am getting two for my bars NOW.

About time we didn't have to pay for all the middle-men and even if the quality is low - so what. What is the lifespan of a light system anyway - given how fast tech changes. I have a box of high quality, expensive, REDUNDANT, brand name lights.

Can't wait to see beam shots.

Hurrar for this!!
my plans exactly ;)
 
#10 ·
wheeler26 said:
my plans exactly ;)
Actually your post in the DIY forum was exactly my thought. I'll use one or two on the bar and a P7 Flashlight on my helmet. That's a lot of light for very little money.

The second is as much for spares and an extra battery. These can backup my Exposure MaXx D when I need for racing as well.

I have had cheap P7 flashlights for long enough to know they work fine and are reliable. And I am not reading posts on-mass of cheap P7 flashlight failures (here and on Candlepower forums). It made sense that Airbike like packages would come out at an even lower price. Makes Geomans $200 deal for what was the budget king deal versus the 'brands' seem very expensive now.

This is a very significant product I think. I bet we see more of these appear and even see them appear at LBS even if for $100.

I bet I never buy another expensive bike light again. No need now. And it will only get better. Big brands will become the domain of the old high margin, many hands, LBS model - so for the sod that doesn't surf.

This one does need some tweaks. The attack bezel is a strange addition for the bike. There to rip skin if you crash. No helmet mount I could see. And it would be great to see a P7 'D' bin version.
 
#11 ·
Although the reliability of this light is questionable, I guess at that price you could buy several of them and if one dies you wouldn't really care b/c it is dirt cheap. If it only lasted one season then you would have gotten your moneys worth. After I see you guys (guinea pigs) reviews then I might get one just to give it to my friend who is in need of a light. Does it say anywhere what the warranty is?
 
#15 ·
GEOMAN said:
Tell us your thoughts so we can order some up for sale if you're interested. Will take about a week to receive them.

Price will be comparable to DE.

TY.
That would be cool. In the mean time I'm still waiting to see some outside beam shots of these things, preferably on a dirt or other natural surface. Can't wait till the early bird buyers starting posting up. Maybe someone send James an e-mail ( http://www.gearreview.com/ )
and ask him to review the light. I'm off to work so no time right now. If I like what I see, you can put one of those with my name on it. ;) I like dealers who are forthcoming and try to get what people want at a decent price...Thumbsup Geoman...:thumbsup:
 
#17 ·
dan0 said:
over half the cost of name brand lights is the battery, add in a smart charger and now you're probably at 3/4 of the cost

my guess is this is a cheap piece of crap that will have a lousy beam pattern, cheap under powered battery and a bad charger
Pretty much my point of view but you know the saying "you get what you pay for...";)
 
#18 ·
dan0 said:
over half the cost of name brand lights is the battery, add in a smart charger and now you're probably at 3/4 of the cost

my guess is this is a cheap piece of crap that will have a lousy beam pattern, cheap under powered battery and a bad charger
About the lousy beam pattern: I'm not so sure about that. My two D/X P-7 torches use two different size reflectors and both provide an excellent beam pattern for bike riding. If they didn't people wouldn't be buying them. Just because reflectors are cheap doesn't mean they don't work good. I'll wait for the beam shot photos before passing judgment.
About cheap chargers and batteries: I've bought many cheap Asian made batteries and chargers. Yes, chargers can stop working. A good power surge can take out any electronic digital component. The good part is they are dirt cheap. Buy some spares and you're good to go. I mean...What Jim311 said was right on the money..
Plus if you pay 90 bucks for it, and it lasts a year, you've gotten your money's worth. Technology is progressing so rapidly that in a year there may be another light that's twice as bright for the same amount.
as far as batteries go..batteries are batteries...they get old, they lose capacity, you buy new ones, same ol' same ol'....$10 for 2 x 2500mah 18650 Trustfires and I bet they will get
cheaper now that 3000mah are out.
One last parting comment: Just how long ago was it that people were dropping major coin when the bulbs on their $500 HID lights blew out after a couple seasons?
 
#19 ·
Cat-man-do said:
About the lousy beam pattern: I'm not so sure about that. My two D/X P-7 torches use two different size reflectors and both provide an excellent beam pattern for bike riding. If they didn't people wouldn't be buying them. Just because reflectors are cheap doesn't mean they don't work good. I'll wait for the beam shot photos before passing judgment.
About cheap chargers and batteries: I've bought many cheap Asian made batteries and chargers. Yes, chargers can stop working. A good power surge can take out any electronic digital component. The good part is they are dirt cheap. Buy some spares and you're good to go. I mean...What Jim311 said was right on the money..

as far as batteries go..batteries are batteries...they get old, they lose capacity, you buy new ones, same ol' same ol'....$10 for 2 x 2500mah 18650 Trustfires and I bet they will get
cheaper now that 3000mah are out.
One last parting comment: Just how long ago was it that people were dropping major coin when the bulbs on their $500 HID lights blew out after a couple seasons?
so, according to you, all the manufacturers of more expensive light systems are basically ripping everyone off?
Lion batteries need specific regulating circuitry and a good charger and I can guarantee you that your $10 batteries are not even in the same categories as the $200-$300 liOn
(remember a couple of years ago when laptop batteries started to catch on fire?)
as far as reflectors & lenses , again quality ones will be highly polished and the lenses will be optical quality
this argument is similar to the sunglasses argument. do you buy cheap lookalike sunglasses or do you buy eyeglass quality sunglasses? yeah the cheap ones work and you can buy 10 pairs for the same money but they are not equal. I prefer quality parts that last and don't leave you stranded . I'm still using my L&M hid lights that Ive had going on 4 years AND I'm still the guy with the best & brightest beam on most rides
 
#20 · (Edited)
dan0 said:
so, according to you, all the manufacturers of more expensive light systems are basically ripping everyone off?
Lion batteries need specific regulating circuitry and a good charger and I can guarantee you that your $10 batteries are not even in the same categories as the $200-$300 liOn
(remember a couple of years ago when laptop batteries started to catch on fire?)

as far as reflectors & lenses , again quality ones will be highly polished and the lenses will be optical quality
this argument is similar to the sunglasses argument. do you buy cheap lookalike sunglasses or do you buy eyeglass quality sunglasses? yeah the cheap ones work and you can buy 10 pairs for the same money but they are not equal. I prefer quality parts that last and don't leave you stranded . I'm still using my L&M hid lights that Ive had going on 4 years AND I'm still the guy with the best & brightest beam on most rides
I'll try to respond to the three items I highlighted above without being too argumentative...
#1) Actually..No. Where I come from the phrase "rip-off" is very strong language. Usually it is applied only when the case pertains to someone who is intentionally stealing or cheating someone. No, I don't think the big name light manufactures are ripping anyone off. They charge what they do based on what they think the marketplace will allow. Nothing wrong with that. Obviously, some of these big names spend a lot of time and money engineering their product. In some cases they use better electronics (drivers) that are better designed and heat-sinked. In some cases the optics are custom built. Based on these things they will spend money in advertising to let people know about their product. All these things raise cost. Better drivers, LEDs, Light engine design, more user modes, better mounting options...etc. ...all this stuff gives them lee way to ask for more money. Sometimes the price is justified, sometimes it's not but that is just my opinion. If money is not one of those things that you are short of then more power to you. Personally I have invested at least $1000 in commercial brand bike lights in the last two years. They work great and I like them. I got what I expected. I also have a couple cheap D/X torches. Yes they are cheap. The quality is ..well, fair at best. They don't have a lot of bells and whistles but can offer light output ( lumens ) that compare to the big boys. Personally I like the simplicity of torches. Does this mean I'm giving up on my Dinottes or HIDtech lights....Hell! NO!..:D
#2 about the batteries. Li-ions are made better and safer now. I think much of the problem previously came from people who didn't know how to safely handle products that used Li-ion technology. Once again my opinion.(..ie...guy leaves laptop in trunk of car in 120'F heat.) If the problem of flammable batteries had not been properly addressed by the battery makers no one would be using the technology today. Personally I've never seen Li-on cells or batteries in the $300 range for general purpose use.
#3 Doesn't everybody?:skep: That's why I always travel with at least two lights. If one goes out you have the other. I've done that for years regardless of what light technology I was using....because you just never know when that halogen or HID bulb might pop...or whither that LED driver just might go ka-put...that or you just forget to charge that battery..:D
By the way, IMO...L&M always did make the best HID's . I was saving to buy one when the ( then ) new LED technology began to come out. The rest is history.
 
#21 ·
Cat-man-do said:
I'll try to respond to the three items I highlighted above without being too argumentative...
#1) Actually..No. Where I come from the phrase "rip-off" is very strong language. Usually it is applied only when the case pertains to someone who is intentionally stealing or cheating someone.

I don't know, if the lights are equal and 1 costs $90 and the other costs $400 then I would call that a rip off. However I don't think they are equal. lets look at all the differences
Case, cable, circuitry, charger, reflector,batteries and mounts
take your $400 light, use cheaper plastic parts, a cheap reflector off the shelf cable and connector and don't forget the charger ( looks like a transformer to me). Then add in cheap foreign labor and no name batteries , yeah you could probably get the price down to the $100 price range. does it throw out the same light in lumens? maybe, is it the same quality ? doubtfull.
I guess if you're riding around in familiar territory and don't mind carrying extra lights (just in case) oh yeah , and don't crash (don't think the cheap light is going to be durable)
it could be OK. I would rather not buy and carry 2 or 3 sets of lights (not so cheap if you need several) but to each his own
I'm including a link and some pertinent information on LiOn batteries
" Despite its overall advantages, lithium-ion has its drawbacks. It is fragile and requires a protection circuit to maintain safe operation. Built into each pack, the protection circuit limits the peak voltage of each cell during charge and prevents the cell voltage from dropping too low on discharge. In addition, the cell temperature is monitored to prevent temperature extremes. The maximum charge and discharge current on most packs are is limited to between 1C and 2C. With these precautions in place, the possibility of metallic lithium plating occurring due to overcharge is virtually eliminated.

Aging is a concern with most lithium-ion batteries and many manufacturers remain silent about this issue. Some capacity deterioration is noticeable after one year, whether the battery is in use or not. The battery frequently fails after two or three years. It should be noted that other chemistries also have age-related degenerative effects. This is especially true for nickel-metal-hydride if exposed to high ambient temperatures. At the same time, lithium-ion packs are known to have served for five years in some applications.

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-5.htm
 
#22 ·
this is my take on the current state of the matter

1. LED's are now the way to go - basically lots of light in a small package with much longer bulb times and better more efficient use of battery usage.

I can say that i've had bulbs break on me at the most worse times and these are brand name manufacturers lights. Personaly i don't carry around spare bulbs, do you? A spare small LED flashlight is easier to carry.

2. Brand name manufacturers better smarten up and drop their prices else they'll end up like the big auto makers - BANKRUPT - so give the people what they want - cheap $ good lights and we shall buy.

:nono: ;)
 
#23 ·
wheeler26 said:
this is my take on the current state of the matter

1. LED's are now the way to go - basically lots of light in a small package with much longer bulb times and better more efficient use of battery usage.
somewhat true, but max life is still 3.5 -4.5 hrs

I can say that i've had bulbs break on me at the most worse times and these are brand name manufacturers lights. Personaly i don't carry around spare bulbs, do you? A spare small LED flashlight is easier to carry.
Bulbs? not LED's , the issue for me is cheap components can fail at several points, broken switch, bad connector, etc. What happens when the connector or switch comes apart? your extra battery wont help you then

2. Brand name manufacturers better smarten up and drop their prices else they'll end up like the big auto makers - BANKRUPT - so give the people what they want - cheap $ good lights and we shall buy.

you get what you pay for, if you want cheap & crappy its available, if you want quality and longevity its also available, thats why its called a free market system
 
#26 · (Edited)
What I forgot to mention in my last post and the point I was trying to hit home was that regardless of how much money you spend on ...well, "Anything", $hiz can happen. Just because that BMW cost $45,000 doesn't mean something on the car can't break. This principal holds true with anything you buy. If I buy a light system that cost big bucks it's because they are offering something I can't get anywhere else. More "Bells and Whistles" is a nice thing sometimes. A while back my newest big $$$ high powered LED light developed a problem with the Li-ion battery. A break in the wires somewhere inside the battery. It was only a couple months old...Man, stuff happens just like I said. I e-mail the company and in less than a couple days I had a new "improved" battery. If you pay more money you expect not only a better product but better service. Now if something happens to one of my D/X torches I can do one of two things. I can send it back and wait a couple months for a replacement or I can toss it ( and cannibalize the parts ) and then just buy the newest, latest upgrade ( which is what I have already done with one of my other torches )
I like this new "Lupine Knock-off" that D/X is offering. Yeah, it's cheap. Who knows how long something like this will last. My hope is that with a few small improvements ( ie...better heat sinking on the emitter and driver, better usable modes..etc ) something like this could be a decent light system that could last for years...Not to mention being affordable to almost anyone.

Yes, I already have the link to Battery U. Lots of good info there although it was last updated around 2007. This is a good link for info on Li-ion cells too..> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Battery_Power/Lithium_Ion_Batteries#New_technology
Scroll down the paragraph that talks about "disadvantages". There it lists all the safety features that are added to the cells to control the potential for "flame out". For now I'll continue to buy those $3 and $5 cells. In two years when they lose capacity I'll fork out another couple 5 spots and get more. No problem for me. I usually spend more for lunch in any given day. Hopefully, in the future battery technology will continue to advance and hopefully they will remain cheap.
 
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