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Thread: Betty R

  1. #1
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    Betty R

    I just talked to Lupine North America and they said they should receive Betty R in 2 - 3 weeks ...

    aside from an extra 1,000 lumens ( 3600 vs 2600 ) it seems to be a completely new design:

    http://r2-bike.com/bilder/produkte/g...betty-r_b2.jpg

    http://r2-bike.com/bilder/produkte/g...ellspanner.jpg

    looks like it has gotten a Piko style helmet mount, which i actually liked a lot because of how light it is.
    Last edited by androgen; 10-11-2012 at 03:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    I just talked to Lupine North America and they said they should receive Betty R in 2 - 3 weeks ...

    aside from an extra 1,000 lumens ( 3600 vs 2600 ) it seems to be a completely new design:

    http://r2-bike.com/bilder/produkte/g...betty-r_b2.jpg

    http://r2-bike.com/bilder/produkte/g...ellspanner.jpg

    looks like it has gotten a Piko style helmet mount, which i actually liked a lot because of how light it is.
    so i have returned the Piko ... should i now return the Niterider as well, and use the money to get a Betty R when it comes out ? and stick with helmet light only ?

    i was pretty much set on using Wilma with the NR but just now i realized that Betty R is not just more powerful - it has a new helmet mount as well.

    the wilma mount:

    http://eurocycles.com/res/image/prod...uwilmasl-5.jpg

    is just stupid by comparison IMO.

    the new design is much more thoughtful - the lighthead sits much lower and the hinge is right at the center of gravity of the lighthead - basically a Piko on steroids.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    The Betty running at 28w (2 steps down -2600 lumens) from max should run cooler than the Wilma running at 28w (max power -2400lumens). 7 LEDs should be driven less hard to get the same output as 4 LEDs. And of course the Betty has more ur face rea to dissipate heat.

    But then again, there is the price difference.

    Here is the Betty rapt 40w-3600 lumens
    http://www.lupine2013.de/img/dimmlev...ty_R_40W-1.jpg

    Then dropped to 28w-2600 lumens
    http://www.lupine2013.de/img/dimmlev...ty_R_28W-1.jpg

    And lastly the Wilma at 28w-2400 lumens
    http://www.lupine2013.de/img/dimmlevel/Wilma_28W-2.jpg
    the Betty R looks more focused, with less spill than Wilma based on comparing both at 28 watts ...

    ok, so it also has wireless switch:

    2013 Lupine Betty R, Wilma and Piko Bike Lights - YouTube

    so you can control helmet light with a switch on the handlebars.

    damn this Betty R is really well suited for Helmet - lightweight compact mount, wireless switch, flexible cable ...

    the handlebar mount on the other hand does not look very sturdy at all, but i would rather have NR 3600 on handlebars anyway because it has wider beam angle, not to mention - it is cheaper !
    Last edited by androgen; 10-11-2012 at 04:48 PM.

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    actually if you have labeled the pictures properly, it looks like the Wilma has more throw. Look at the road in the distance.

    J.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    actually if you have labeled the pictures properly, it looks like the Wilma has more throw. Look at the road in the distance.

    J.
    nonsense that's spill not throw. just point them up higher and the Betty will win.

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    Something to think about with the Betty R is:

    - Heat management: Betty R will run on 100% at 25 kilometers per hour motion and 20 degree celsius (ambient) and will dim down if slower/hotter.

    So that is a small window of usage for 100%... Not sure if you ride that fast in the city. The temp for you shouldn't be too much of an issue this time of year.

    25km/h = 15.5 mph
    20 deg c = 68 deg f

    regards

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    Quote Originally Posted by cue003 View Post
    Something to think about with the Betty R is:

    - Heat management: Betty R will run on 100% at 25 kilometers per hour motion and 20 degree celsius (ambient) and will dim down if slower/hotter.

    So that is a small window of usage for 100%... Not sure if you ride that fast in the city. The temp for you shouldn't be too much of an issue this time of year.

    25km/h = 15.5 mph
    20 deg c = 68 deg f

    regards
    i seriously doubt output will be a problem. that thing weighs 150 grams - that's 3 times the weight of Piko - it is HUGE - it appears physically much larger than old Betty ( wider in the back ):

    http://www.virtuascape.com.au/images...y-R-Helm-3.jpg

    http://www.bike24.com/i/p/8/9/38398_02_d.jpg

    whatever lumens it puts out will be enough - whether it is 3,600 or 2,400.

    it looks like it probably has the same amount of heat sinking as the NR, and it has 1 more XML so i trust it to put out the same amount of light - only in a different beam pattern.

    the NR is heavier ( close to 200 grams i believe ) but that's because it has a separate aluminum heatsink and plastic outer body. lupine doesn't have plastic outer body so the aluminum heatsink is more directly exposed to air so it can weigh less and still have equal, and probably better cooling.

    the NR went from 3000 to 3600 model without any apparent cooling upgrades, while the Betty going from 2600 to 3600 seems to have gotten physically bigger when it comes to surface of aluminum. so i think if a year ago NR was ahead in terms of brute power i think now that gap is closed.

    the bar mount looks crap though. in fact it seems they don't even include it ( just as with piko ). i don't see how you could aim it left and right using the new bar mount.

    the bar mount seems similar to this one:

    Lupine - The new quick release mount for your Piko (EN) - YouTube

    which looks like it would break the second you touched it. it's all hanging on about 2 millimeters of a single screw.
    Last edited by androgen; 10-11-2012 at 07:51 PM.

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    Androgen, you get rid of a 3000 lumens light as it is to bright, and now you consider the same amount of light, and you are going to put it on the helmet where it will bother even more??


    The handlemount of the piko is perfect, there is no need to point left or rigth, you can place it in the centre so that it shines straight, you can easaly point only up and down.

    And in case of a severe crash, i will be happy the the mount bended or broke instead of the light!

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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    nonsense that's spill not throw. just point them up higher and the Betty will win.
    Well, you'd think the manufacturer would understand how to present their products the best.

    First the NR is the best - buy it and don't think about it and Lupine stinks. Now it looks like the Lupine Betty is the end all and be all of lights so it's time to return the light that was the "don't even think about it go buy it" best light? Yikes!

    J.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Well, you'd think the manufacturer would understand how to present their products the best.
    reputable manufacturers don't try to present their products *best* - that's what Chinese manufacturers do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    reputable manufacturers don't try to present their products *best* - that's what Chinese manufacturers do.
    What are you talking about? Manufacturers present their products in the best possible light. That is a big difference from just making unprovable claims.

    J.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    What are you talking about? Manufacturers present their products in the best possible light. That is a big difference from just making unprovable claims.

    J.
    that reminds me of a 30 minute long lexus infomercial where lexus was protesting how their boats handle better than BMWs ... LOL

    yes Asian companies do this. European don't.

    there is something called self-respect that Asian manufacturers don't have.

    watch any BMW, Mercedes or Porsche commercial - they never talk about how fast the car is NEVER. but watch a Hyundai commercial and it says it's faster than a Porsche. Samsung is the most Asian in this respect, because ALL their commercials ONLY talk about how it's better than Apple ... LOL !

    it's about not insulting the customer's intelligence. any 100 lumen light can be made to look like 100,000 watt HID stadium lights on a photo - and if you're a Chinese light maker you WILL do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by androgen View Post
    so i have returned the Piko ... should i now return the Niterider as well, and use the money to get a Betty R when it comes out ? and stick with helmet light only ?

    i was pretty much set on using Wilma with the NR but just now i realized that Betty R is not just more powerful
    Androgen, are you planning to use this "helmet light only" setup for use on dirt trail or city road? Reason for asking is that from the impression I got from the last couple of thread, it sound like you are trying to find a setup that reasonable for road or path use and not wooded dirt trail use.

    Having 3000+ lumens only on the helmet is ok for off road but not ok on road, MUP, or daily commute. In raining condition, fog or even drizzle condition, you will find yourself tweaking down the power level to reduce glares. Having a bar supplement light allow you some additional lumens even if you have to turn down your helmet light.

    If the "helmet only" setup is for road use, forget it. I find drivers and pedestrian more irritated by the higher mounted helmet light than they are from the bar mounted light given the same lumens. Just something to consider and just saying.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by colleen c View Post
    Androgen, are you planning to use this "helmet light only" setup for use on dirt trail or city road? Reason for asking is that from the impression I got from the last couple of thread, it sound like you are trying to find a setup that reasonable for road or path use and not wooded dirt trail use.

    Having 3000+ lumens only on the helmet is ok for off road but not ok on road, MUP, or daily commute. In raining condition, fog or even drizzle condition, you will find yourself tweaking down the power level to reduce glares. Having a bar supplement light allow you some additional lumens even if you have to turn down your helmet light.

    If the "helmet only" setup is for road use, forget it. I find drivers and pedestrian more irritated by the higher mounted helmet light than they are from the bar mounted light given the same lumens. Just something to consider and just saying.....
    thanks for that - very interesting. that reminds me of how i was trying to drive in San Francisco fog at night - all i could see is my headlights reflecting off the fog. the Al-Gore worshippers in SF apparently decided to save the planet because there weren't any street lights on that road either. about the only way i could even judge if i was in the oncoming traffic lane is by the headlights of cars going the other way which would appear out of the fog about 2 seconds before passing me at ~ 80 mph relative to my speed in the opposite direction. the fact that it was a twisty mountain road didn't help at all. it was one of the scariest experiences i have ever had driving. the "natives" seemed to be OK with it though - as if they had some kind of sonar to guide them like a bat.

    one other reason i would like to have also a bar light is so that if i turn my head i don't suddenly become invisible from the front. also i want to be able to still see where i'm going out of the corner of my eye even if i'm looking sideways.

    ideally i would also like for my light to become visible even when i am myself still around the corner of a building or behind some van etc. with NR3600 you definitely get that - your light announces your arrival several seconds before you actually get there - but unfortunately the NR3600 is not acceptable unless you are prepared to deal with people who will invariably be very angry about it.

    we still have a long way to go until bike headlights have BOTH the output AND beam shaping of HID car headlights AT THE SAME TIME.

    and even without any lights at all - when you're driving a V8 with sport exhaust just tap on the gas and all the pedestrians turn their head in the 100 foot radius - no such benefit when riding a bike.

    what we ultimately need is what cars have - powerful low beams with the ability to flash high beams to draw attention. we're probably a decade away from this.
    Last edited by androgen; 10-20-2012 at 07:01 PM.

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    Androgen, this being a mountain bike forum, most of us here are off road trail riders and prefer a beam that lights up above to with no cut off. From reading your posts it sounds like you aren't doing much trail riding. Along with trail riding, I do actually ride the road and bike paths too and I have no issues getting around on the streets with a bar light which is geared towards mountain biking.

    Also, it is confusing as to what you are looking to achieve. You have a NR 3600 bar light with massive output that you seem to like, but now you are considering returning it and going with a Lupine Betty 3600? If you are only riding road and bike paths/ mups then you already had more than enough light for the task. With the NR 3600 on the bars, where it belongs, you had a beast of a bar light, and the Piko you had for your helmet was plenty of output to see around corners and if need be get someones attention on the road. It sounds like you originally bought such a massive output bar light and then wanted a helmet light that could match the massive bar light. I say at this point you won't be happy unless you have a massive output for bar and helmet. So just get it over with and get the Betty for the helmet and keep the NR for the bars. Then you can rest assured that you have the brightest lights going and then the only thing left to complain about is that you need a cut off for road riding which with the few options out now that have cut offs won't satisfy your lust for lumen overkill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MaximusHQ View Post
    Androgen, this being a mountain bike forum, most of us here are off road trail riders and prefer a beam that lights up above to with no cut off. From reading your posts it sounds like you aren't doing much trail riding. Along with trail riding, I do actually ride the road and bike paths too and I have no issues getting around on the streets with a bar light which is geared towards mountain biking.

    Also, it is confusing as to what you are looking to achieve. You have a NR 3600 bar light with massive output that you seem to like, but now you are considering returning it and going with a Lupine Betty 3600? If you are only riding road and bike paths/ mups then you already had more than enough light for the task. With the NR 3600 on the bars, where it belongs, you had a beast of a bar light, and the Piko you had for your helmet was plenty of output to see around corners and if need be get someones attention on the road. It sounds like you originally bought such a massive output bar light and then wanted a helmet light that could match the massive bar light. I say at this point you won't be happy unless you have a massive output for bar and helmet. So just get it over with and get the Betty for the helmet and keep the NR for the bars. Then you can rest assured that you have the brightest lights going and then the only thing left to complain about is that you need a cut off for road riding which with the few options out now that have cut offs won't satisfy your lust for lumen overkill.
    very funny. in any case i sent everything back.

    i realized that i didn't do enough research and ended up getting something which while good is not really designed for MY type of use as well as doesn't necessarily work together.

    i don't plan to ride until spring because i am very afraid of the cold ( for health reasons ) so the only thing that seemed to make sense was to return everything ( including Dinotte ) and then just start over when spring comes.

    i think when it gets warm again next year i will try L&M Vis 180 instead of the Dinotte, probably B&M light for the handlebar and maybe nothing for the helmet, maybe Wilma, maybe just re-order Piko again.

    i also intend to try bike after dark fireball mark 2 spoke lights. while they don't pick up the phone they did finally answer my e-mails ( twice ) so that is encouraging.

    i don't think i could have learned what i did without actually trying these lights for myself, so if i get the refund i won't have any regrets. so far i only got the refund from Lupine - they gave me full refund without any restocking fees. so my only loss on the Piko was $12 in return shipping. keeping fingers crossed with respect to NR and Dinotte.

    i still maintain that all 3 of those lights were great lights - just not for me.

    in case of Dinotte it is too focused FOR ME. for road use i still think it would be perfect. but i want less on-axis output and more output up to about 45 degrees off axis. this way when i am on MUP i don't blind people as much but when i am at an intersection i still have some extra side visibility.

    of course in case of 90 degrees intersection side visibility will have to come from spoke lights, but for an intersection at 45 degrees for example i would like the tail light to contribute some visibility.
    Last edited by androgen; 10-20-2012 at 11:14 PM.

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    Yikes!

    Just a few days ago you were telling us all to run out and buy the NR 3600, don't even think about it. Now you're sending everything back?? Pardon me, but I think this whole exercise has been kind of crazy.

    J.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnJ80 View Post
    Yikes!

    Just a few days ago you were telling us all to run out and buy the NR 3600, don't even think about it. Now you're sending everything back?? Pardon me, but I think this whole exercise has been kind of crazy.

    J.
    you should still run out and get NR 3600 ! i stand by that comment. it is awesome for illuminating your surroundings. the light is wide, deep and mostly even. unfortunately i can't use it.

    you might still use one in the city if you're comfortable with upsetting people. since this was for my mother i wasn't comfortable with that. and frankly i wasn't even comfortable with it myself - i didn't feel threatened but i definitely felt it was morally wrong - there was visible discomfort on every face that was within then beam no matter at what angle or power level.

    i still think its a great light - but very heavily geared towards the woods. if you want to see all the branches on the trees - this is the ticket.

    it gets extremely hot even on lower settings when standing still indoors, but when you ride i never noticed much heat at all. the metal part may be getting hot but the plastic part surrounding the power button is not even body temperature so you can comfortable operate it. in my opinion that front air intake and overall cooling design works very well when you are at speed. doesn't work at all when you're standing still indoors.

    also i didn't try the helmet mount, but it looked pretty nice. and the light easily releases via a cleat on both helmet and bar mounts which is interesting. the battery of course also releases that way, which i have grown to like as well. although because the battery has contacts which have to be waterproofed that is an additional point of electrical failure.

    i also looked online and a second battery is a lot cheaper than Lupine equivalent. so if you plan to ride the whole night you could put a second battery in your camelbak and switch them rather easily. unfortunately that battery quite heavy - don't remember exact weight but i weighed it and it was significantly heavier than Lupine battery of similar capacity. i also measured it and it has significantly greater physical volume than Lupine - it is a lot wider, although it is quite short for a 8 cell.

    even so - i think it is a solid light for serious offroading. that just isn't my case though.
    Last edited by androgen; 10-21-2012 at 06:08 PM.

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