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  1. #1
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    Best Nuetral LED for Mountain Biking

    Ok I figured I would start a seperate thread since mixed in with the Yinding thread, it was getting lost.

    The topic is, whether the XM-L2 U2 3C is the perfect a neutral tint for mountain biking. I like nuetral tints just not the loss in perceived brightness. Is there a real perceivable advantage in switching to nuetral?

  2. #2
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    Original Yinding XML2 T6 3B 10+25 optics...moded



    KD 2x XML2 U2 white ,probably 1D, 25+25 optics...moded
    http://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S022641


    both around 1000-1100 lumen

    Sorry, it is winter, so foliage and flowers are missing.

  3. #3
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    I wonder how much if a difference between T6 3B vs U2 3C. The latter should be brighter and I imagine a B vs C difference is minor

  4. #4
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    I prefer neutral over nuetral LEDs, heh.

    3C was very popular over at BLF in their very successful recent group buy. They even did a T6-4C, but it cost extra and didn't have access to many it seems.

    GB-BLF X6-SE OP update- last round of GB is shipping out. | BudgetLightForum.com

  5. #5
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    Neutral 3c

  6. #6
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    I built my last helmet light with 3C and it is really nice.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  7. #7
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    Ok Dora ordered the Yinding with XM-L2 U2 3C. Presale starts soon. If anyone has a 3C example please post it.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJHS View Post
    I wonder how much if a difference between T6 3B vs U2 3C. The latter should be brighter and I imagine a B vs C difference is minor
    Yes the difference can be minor to none, depends on actual production batches. Since they are in neighbour classes (B is on the left and C on the right) possibilities are equal to be most apart (in it's class) or most together ie. very same tint.

    It is exactly the same case with brightness. U2 can be (let say 10%) brighter or they can be equal. On average they are different, of course.

  9. #9
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    Speaking from flashlight experience and little bike light experience here:

    I've never been very fond of the 3C myself. When 4C became widespread I bought quite a few and modded some lights with it. This is what I use in my EDC light. I enjoyed the 4C until I tried a 5B1. The 5B1 just makes things POP out like crazy to me. The color rendition seems about perfect to me. It's not a high CRI LED (I've never tried a high CRI one). One minor downside is that the 5B1 is only available in an XM-L2 T5 bin. In my mind though the minor loss of lumens is worth the increase in color rendering. FastTech sells the XM-L2 T5 5B1 LEDs.

    I'm not sure that I have any beamshots of a 3C (or at least none I can recall at the moment), but I do have shots comparing a 4C to a 5B1.

    Here's my EDC which is an XM-L T6 4C @ 2.1A (photo link here):



    Here's my SolarStorm X3 modded to XM-L2 T5 5B1's on Low (Low on the X3 is about as close to that 4C shot above - different beam patterns make it difficult to compare - photo link here):



    -Garry

  10. #10
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    I bought XML2 U2 4C from Fasttech. Installed it in Romisen zoomable flashlight. I was disappointed with its tint. Maybe I didnt get
    the right bin or that dome zoomable optics dont get along with this led.

    I gave the flashlight to my buddy, but I will try to take a beam photo as soon as possible.

  11. #11
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    @garrybunk what didn't you like about the 3C? I'm hoping it will be much easier on the eyes than the harsh, to me, very white cool white. If so maybe we can get a 3C head lamp like the XT40 for a complete set that's easier on the eyes

  12. #12
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    I felt the 3C was barely neutral. It's good for people who want to stay close to the cool white end of the spectrum. If I remember correctly, it tends to look too yellow to me. I have a 3C light I could get beamshots of, but it won't be anytime soon.

    -Garry

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    Having same (or nearest) tint is a good idea. Mixing to distinct ones is not very pleasant, to my eyes at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ledoman View Post
    Having same (or nearest) tint is a good idea. Mixing to distinct ones is not very pleasant, to my eyes at least.
    This is a misguided idea like people claiming you should match front and rear suspension travel for no good reason (try that idea on a hardtail then...).

    As long as you're mixing an inferior tint with a more favorable tint, you'll get a fuller spectrum with a higher CRI than using a single matching tint. The average blended tint will be closer to target tint AND fuller due to the different spectra in each tint. This is why high-end projection and camera systems use a mutli color system rather than a single emitter or CCD. The effect obviously isn't as pronounced the closer the tints (we're not talking R vs G vs B), but it's still slightly better than sticking with matching inferior tints.

    The lighting industry is using color mixing to get high CRI and high efficiency at the same time. A dual tint solution is better than a single one:

    Color mixing enables high CRI and high LED efficacy - LEDs

  15. #15
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    Yes if you mix in the same light in the same optics, but not when you have two for about 1 meter separated sources of light moving each on it's own direction having different optics (ie. helmet and bar light).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ledoman View Post
    Yes if you mix in the same light in the same optics, but not when you have two for about 1 meter separated sources of light moving each on it's own direction having different optics (ie. helmet and bar light).
    You'll get some effects in the overlap borders, but typically the overlapping area is bigger than the non and borders are located mostly off the primary FOV in cycling. The color shadow effects are minimal given how close the tints typically are in cycling lights.

    Technically even if the tint matches between two cycling light sources, they will have different optics like you point out and you can get multiple shadows which will make things look slightly blurry/distracting with the separation between bar and helmet (not as big of a deal in single lamps with multi optic/reflector setups given the small separation). This is all in theory, because you don't see many people posting on here about their multi lamp setups making things look distracting/blurry.

    I would assume horizontal separation is a much bigger deal than the vertical separation in creating distracting color or multiple shadow effects. Fortunately, the horizontal separation in multi lamp cycling use is minimal.

  17. #17
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    Since I don't know the actual bin of the neutral LED in my torch I'll only add that when I shine it up against a white wall in my home and compare it to a torch with a normal white bin that the neutral LED looks more yellow. However, when I use the neutral LED in the field "There is no perceived yellow tint" ( at least to my eyes ). The only difference is that the area of illumination appears more colorful or natural if you may. The added effect of neutral LED's is that their is less reflective glare to hamper close vision BUT also less light to reflect into the distance ( the downside ). This is one of the reasons why the light appears to be not as bright. This shouldn't be a problem through as long as you have enough total lumen output to compensate for any distance issue. Once again though this is speculation on my part as I don't have a full neutral set-up to know for sure.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ledoman View Post
    Having same (or nearest) tint is a good idea. Mixing to distinct ones is not very pleasant, to my eyes at least.
    +1 on this. One of my older bar lights is a very cool white 6up XPG. It does not "mix" well with the 3C XML helmet light. Sure it is usable, but it is a distraction.
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    +1 on this. One of my older bar lights is a very cool white 6up XPG. It does not "mix" well with the 3C XML helmet light. Sure it is usable, but it is a distraction.
    Any way you can post an outdoor beam shot of the 3C here? It doesn't have to be too fancy

  20. #20
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    I've never done a beam shot of that light. If I get some time between the holiday events, I'll try to do one
    GoPro adapters for bike lights http://www.pacifier.com/~kevinb/index.html

  21. #21
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    Not mine but I think its a good comparison between 1A vs 3C
    Keep it mine its XML-T6, so how it differs from XM-L2 U2...may be not much at all?
    I say the colour is faily close to my 1A
    Best Nuetral LED for Mountain Biking-kd-8x7135-driver-xm-l-t6-1a-ultrafire-c8-smo-reflector.jpg
    Best Nuetral LED for Mountain Biking-kd-8x7135-driver-xm-l-t6-3c-ultrafire-c8-op-reflector.jpg

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    When I first decided to get "real" lights (as opposed to the AA based ones I had been using), I did my research over on BLF and CPF. It was a few months before I found this forum. The first light I bought was a Shadow JM-07 for the bars, and I ordered it with a Neutral 3C tint. Shortly after I began reading here, I bought a Xeccon S12 for my helmet. It was definitely a much cooler LED.

    One thing I did notice out on the trails was that when the mist/fog started to risk, the blueish tint of the S12 seemed to highlight the fog, but the warmer 3C seemed to cut through it. I remember points when I turned off the S12, and rode with the JM-07 because I could see down the trail much better.

    So I'll vote for the 3C.

  23. #23
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    I've never done a beam shot of that light. If I get some time between the holiday events, I'll try to do one
    Thanks

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